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Saturday, March 23, 2019

For Fox News, The War on Christmas comes every year. As you can see from this Talking Points Memo montage, America’s most popular news channel was already raging against The War on Christmas before Thanksgiving, even as an actual battle was being fought in Gaza.

However, 2012’s War on Christmas threatens to be the most explosive ever, with an unlikely new foe joining the fray — the Pope.

In his new book, Pope Benedict XVI plays mythbuster to many of the Christmas conventions that have come to mark the tradition. In this declaration of war on Christmas, the Pope says we have the date of the holiday wrong, no animals were at the nativity scene and angels did not sing when Jesus was born.

When it comes to waging war on Christmas, this is the equivalent of using landmines filled with child soldiers, LSD and uranium.

Why doesn’t the Pope just tell us that the Three Wise Men wished Jesus “Happy Holidays”?

If I know Fox News, and I think I do, they will not let this stand. They will never apologize for Christmas. Don’t be surprised if Bill O’Reilly, brave veteran of 15 Wars on Christmas, is on his way to the Vatican right now.

h/t @word_34

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117 responses to “The Pope Declares War On Christmas?”

  1. Rob Hunt says:

    Ho ho FOX, creating controversy to grab market share. If they want to make “Christmas” strictly a “Christian” celebration, all government offices should be open on that day. This country was founded on separation of Church and State, ALL CHURCHES

  2. nobsartist says:

    I am surprised the pope doesnt tell his flock that jesus was greeted with “sig heil”.

    • Kent says:

      Bullshit, just becaue he was a Grman youth drafted into the Army at the end of WW II does not mean he was “Ratzi the Nazi”. He was “too Catholic” for that.

      • nobsartist says:

        Really? so there was no connection between croation catholics, german catholics and the vatican?


        That goes right along with all of those people that lived in the towns where the prison camps knowing nothing about their existence. They assumed the ashes were just snow and the odor was just the toilets.

        By the way, do you have your cookies ready for Santa?

  3. Sand_Cat says:

    Who’s worse, the Pope or Faux News?

    • amarquez647 says:

      Fox news, of course, the pope tries to be a peace maker. Now can anyone convince him that birth control is necesary, there are over 9,000,000.000 people on the planet.

      • Sand_Cat says:

        Having that many people on the planet alone is not likely to be a “peacemaker,” and – as your note acknowledges – the pope and his synchophants continue to work as hard as they can to assure that nothing is done (other than war, plague, mass murder, etc., all of which are but trivialities compare to someone’s using a condom!) to slow population growth.

        Being a leader who has declared himself “infallible,” or encouraged and accepted the declaration from others, is unlikely to result in real peacemaking. What it virtually guarantees is that when a choice comes between doing the right thing and protecting papal power, papal power becomes the right thing.

        • johninPCFL says:

          He’s also constrained by earlier declarations from other infallible Popes, including instructions on contraception. If he changes policy now, did God change His mind, was the earlier Pope wrong, or is this Pope just going crazy?

          • The doctrine of papal infallibility as asserted by the First Vatican Council in 1870 does not extend to “instructions of contraception” — only to fundamental questions of “faith and morals”, such as the Assumption of Mary proclaimed in 1950 — the only “infallible” pronouncement made by a Pope since 1870. In other words, the Church regards the Pope as fallible in all but a few carefully circumscribed matters.

          • johninPCFL says:

            You may be correct as there is no list of “infallible” pronouncements. However, I used the following documentation to reach my conclusion:

            A component of an ex cathedra pronouncement that becomes doctrine is Sacred Magisterium:
            “The encyclical opens with an assertion of the competency of the magisterium of the Catholic Church to decide questions of morality. It then goes on to observe that circumstances often dictate that married couples should limit the number of children, and that the sexual act between husband and wife is still worthy even if it can be foreseen not to result in procreation. Nevertheless, it is held that the sexual act must “retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life”, and the “direct interruption of the generative process already begun” is unlawful.”

            The 1870 Council definition: This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1869-1870. According to Catholic theology, there are several concepts important to the understanding of infallible, divine revelation: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Magisterium. The infallible teachings of the Pope are part of the Sacred Magisterium, which also consists of ecumenical councils and the “ordinary and universal magisterium”.

            The traditions and Scripture:
            Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 – from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God’s plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.

            Gen. 28:3 – Isaac’s prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.

            Gen. 38:8-10 – Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.

            Gen. 38:11-26 – Judah, like Onan, also rejected God’s command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

            Deut. 25:7-10 – the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.

            Gen. 38:9 – also, the author’s usage of the graphic word “seed,” which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan’s death.

            Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 – God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.

            Lev.18:22-23;20:13 – wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches, which have all strayed from the Catholic Church, reject this fundamental truth (few Protestants and Catholics realize that contraception was condemned by all of Christianity – and other religions – until the Anglican church permitted it in certain cases at the Lambeth conference in 1930. This opened the floodgates of error).

          • martykayzee says:

            Yada yada…

        • martykayzee says:

          My wife is infallible as to design and decor.

  4. leliorisen says:

    If anyone is going to know that angels did not sing when Jesus was born, it would have to be the Pope. After all, he, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have daily conference calls from the White Room (or whatever they use for Vatican Central Command). Every now and then, Mary sits in.

    I also hope the Pope lets the world know when the real birthday is so we can adjust our calendars accordingly.

    • rozlee says:

      LOL. The real date was 4/20. Everyone knows that’s when people feel the most peace on earth and goodwill toward man. After all, cannabis was a drug that was popular in ancient Jewish pharmacopoeia to burn as incense during childbirth.

      • Mike Lazar says:

        4/20 was the birth of Hitler. Not sure if there is a connection or just a coincidence

        • rozlee says:

          It’s a counterculture holiday and more recently, a day of protest of draconian drug laws. National Cannabis Day, mostly referring to the time of day (4:20) and having something to do with a song by the Grateful Dead and some stoners designating it as the perfect time to smoke pot.

    • David says:

      The Pope sent me a text this AM…we chatted for a while…real bday is same as mine 1/11/

      what a coincidence?

  5. amarquez647 says:

    Fox news, the pope tries to be a peace maker. Now can anyone convince him that birth control is necesary, there are over 9,000,000.000 people on the planet.

  6. Michael Kollmorgen says:

    If you seriously consider this.

    Christmas as we know it is not a religious holiday. It is a Business Day(s), actually way before Thanksgiving and past Christmas to New Years Day.

    The Pope might have it right.

    Another thing the guy might want to acknowledge was that Mary got Preg by Joseph and that it wasn’t an immaculate conception.

    As far as Angels go, I don’t believe in any spooky god stuff anyway.

  7. Bunny says:

    The Atheist can display their items in from of their homes etc., and the Christians can display their items in front of their homes and Churches. Everyone happy !

  8. Mimi2kool says:

    The War on Christmas is just a load of you know what anyway.

  9. atc333 says:

    Seems to be more of a case where the Pope simply needed something to do, so his book is the result. Lets see now. No room in the Inn. Born in a stable, placed in a manger, yet no no animals around. Think about it. I can just see the Inn staff taking time to go about evicting all the animals which normally occupy a stable to make room for Joseph and Mary. Then of course, we know there was at least one donkey on the scene, as that his how Mary got there.

    The Pope infallible? Does not seem to be so.

    • johninPCFL says:

      He wrote a book, did not give as a pronouncement “ex cathedra”. Specific conditions apply for the Pope’s words to be infallible. The book meets none of them.

      The Inns were full at the time because all citizens were required to return to their home precincts to report for the census. The stables may in fact have been cleared to allow for more paying customers (they were closet capitalists?)

      Most fairy-tales have some basis in real events.

    • Was that at a Holiday Inn Express or a Best Western? Do you know what an “inn” looked like at CE?

  10. The biggest threat to the spirit of Christmas is its commercialization. What was supposed to be a Holiday to celebrate the birth of Christ, which was likely January 6th, has been transformed into a materialistic occasion dominated by the abundance of expensive gifts instead of observance of a momentous occasion for believers.
    Pope Benedict is correct in pointing out that Jesus was not born on Christmas day, a fact documented in many ancient texts, and that Angels and the Three Wisemen were not there to celebrate the birth of a man that through his teachings and deeds transformed society like no one else has ever done. As for domestic animals roaming around near the meanger, that would not surprise me considering the way things were two millennia ago.
    How will FOX react? They will do whatever is necessary to ensure our business community continues to benefit from the Christmas extravaganza.

    • Dianna S says:

      I believe everyone realizes that December 25 isn’t the actual date. But it is a time to remember his birth. His birth most likely was nearer to Easter or in the spring as the Bible talks about shepherds watching their flocks when singing angels did appear to announce the birth. Flocks would not have been out in the winter and December is not grazing time in Nazareth. The Three Wisemen appeared to the Christ child in Eygpt approx. three months after his birth. Mary and Joseph had fled to Eygpt to protect the child due to King Herod’s killing of all male babies born around this time for fear a new King would replace him as he had heard rumors to this effect. The Wisemen had visited King Herod as well, seeking the news of a newborn King, following their beliefs that the new star in the East was a sign foretelling His birth from ancient Jewish history. After searching for the child, they were led to Eygpt. The Nativity Scene isn’t suppose to represent the actual birth in question, but an accumulation of all events surrrounding the Birth as depicted in the Bible. Most Christians know and accept this. Having the Pope reaffirm what we already know, will not deflect from our traditional celebrations of His birth. It is important that we do remember our Christian beginnings. Even the candy cane, is a symbol of Christianity (the Shepherd’s crook). Christ was born and that is what is important to all Christians…..not when.

      • rozlee says:

        Jesus never told his disciples to make any observances or memorials of him except for the rituals of the Last Supper. To make such a big deal of the pagan-infused “Christian” holidays to the point of blurring their message of love and good-will from the point of their practitioners is staggering in it’s irony. REAL Christians would celebrate within their community and hearts and turn the other cheek instead of being so militant and whipping themselves into such an un-Christ-like spirit of hatred and anger.

      • “… Our Christian beginnings?”

        Speak for yourself. I’m not a Christian, although I have Christian predecessors. At some point in the past, though, they weren’t Christian — that’s when things “began.”

  11. I am 63 years old and this is the meanest Pope of my time. He does NOT connect with the people of the church at all, as it is there is less and less Catholics.

  12. Lovefacts says:

    Early Christians—like the Roman Empire—absorbed the important festivals of the converted peoples. For the Germanic people, December 24-January 6th was a major winter festival celebrated with a tree, singing, and gifts. Also, within pagan religions throughout the Mediterranean, December 25 was already a popular religious celebration—the birthday of the sun.

    As for the actual time of Christ’s birth, it’s reported to be when his family returned to Bethlehem for a Roman mandated census. The census took place during warm weather for ease of travel. It would have been self-defeating to force people to travel during the cold and rain of winter since people don’t usually travel any distance during bad weather—not now and certainly not then. And the Romans were eminently practical.

    • December 25 was traditionally the birthday of both Sol Invictus (the Conquering Sun) and Mithras. Later on, they would find the Norse and Germanic peoples recognized it as Baldr’s birthday, too.
      It was acutally the Sol Invictus symbol that Constantine fought under at Milvan Bridge, as opposed to the Chi-Rho of legend. Constantine found it politically expedient to officially recognize Christianity, especially as his mother (St. Helena) was a Christian. It was also politically expedent for him to make sure Christianity spoke with a single voice, not the cacaphony of the early 10th Century AUC (they hadn’t figured out this whole BC/AD thing yet, so they based dates on the founding of Rome), thus the Council of Nicea, and eventually the development of the Bible as we know it today.

      • Lovefacts says:

        Thanks for the additional information. I just love history and it explains so much about how we got where we are.

      • howa4x says:

        I read that the Mithras were an early influence to how the church developed. Very intresting

      • Let’ not forget that when Constantine realized the value of Christianity as a tool to control the masses, he instructed the Bishops of Nicea to include divine attributes in the New Testament as well as pagan customs, such as paying tribute to the Sol Invictus, to attract pagans and facilitate the transition from paganism to Christianity. Gospels that challenged the concept of divinity, and even the presence of Mary Magdalene, were rejected and often demonized or ignored to support the concept of divinity that was – and remains – the most fundamental requirement to support organized religion.

    • Even the much-rewritten Josephus could not match the Census of Quirinius to the biblical account.

      The fact that the Christmas story was not shared by the other evangelists suggests that it was added as a “back-story”. Believers needed to show that Jesus’ parents were law-abiding citizens of Rome, to confirm biblical prophecies (such as being a descendent of King David) and to locate the birth in a town that would not dispute their doctrine.

      Non-Jews in Bethlehem held the Persian solar deity Mithra as their patron god. Virtually all of the details of Mithra from virgin birth to being born at the end of the solstice to being part of a trinity could be freely used to describe Jesus. Non-Jews could assume Jesus to be the new name for Mithra.

      Christians needed to appear as good citizens under Nero to avoid execution for not confirming his divinity. After the rebellion of the Zealots, they distanced themselves from the rebellious Jews.

      The notion that Jesus was killed by bloodthirsty Jews was political theater. Pilate executed 10-20 self-styled “king/redeemer” individuals annually and was recalled to Rome for executing too many Jews. There is no independent report of his NOT executing an accused Jew.

      How could the gospels disagree if they did not include political theater or outright errors? Understanding why each gospel had to say what it did tells us more about those times than do outlandish suppositions trying to confabulate them with actual history.

  13. howa4x says:

    This is what happens whan a one time Hitler youth takes over. When I was a kid in the 50’s everything was closed on Xmas day, only thing on TV was the yule tide log burning. Now not only are places open but there are sports on TV, especially on Fox, so all this is a little hypocrital of them. The conservatives don’t say much about that but get riled up if someone says happy holiday instead of merry Christmas. This is why the founders of our country wanted no national religion. They didn’t want to get caught up in all this. Religions are always a mix of what was said by the founder and what is picked up as the religion spreads to different areas of the world, and picks up local customs. Sure there are myths in Christmas. It is more associated with Santa claus than Jesus, and you don’t bring your kid to the mall to sit on his lap only Santa’s Also there were no evergreens in acient Israel. Only the religious people even celebrate it, or those who need to be seen at church. It really has become a national commercial holiday, with gift giving causing a spike in GDP, not a spiritual one. So let the Pope say whatever he wants, he is only speaking to Catholics anyway, nobody else really listens. So it is up to them to judge whether he is on the mark or off base

    • martykayzee says:

      I’m an atheist and I listen to the Pope. The absurdity of Christmas and Catholic treatment of women notwithstanding, The Vatican has gone a long way toward accepting geological science and the facts of evolution. This puts them head and shoulders above the evangelical Protestant fantasists who cling to their childish 19th Century mythology.

      • howa4x says:

        Except that this Pope is still in the 16th century about contraception, and abortion. It took the vatican a long time to be against child molestation, including this pope, and they were more concerned about protecting priests than children. Ireland just removed the church from teaching children because of it’s history of child abuse. This pope stood silent when an Indian woman in Ireland beld to death because he wouldn’t grant dispensation to the abortion rule to save her life. To me that is barbaric. He may be ahead of the evangelicals but is still way behind the secular humanists.

        • martykayzee says:

          You’re right, of course. Let’s look to the future demise of all religions and guess how they will perish. Catholicism is likely to fade first followed by the Protestants and their Mormon brethren and then the more problematic Islam and Judaism. I figure three to four more generations, at least.

          • howa4x says:

            I agree
            Religion is the cause to all the hatred in the world. It immediately sets up a we vs they, and we are the true belivers and they are not so we need to kill them for the good of our way of life. sound familiar?

        • johninPCFL says:

          The Church had the answer to molestation: God’s Grace. Ask for forgivess, reent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, reent, and move on with your life.

          • howa4x says:

            true and that answer opened the door for more and more molestation to take place. Instead of asking forgiveness, how about 40 yrs behind bars where the priest would get a rear end taste of his own medicine

          • johninPCFL says:

            ” Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life.” Fairy-tale justice.

      • JAYROSE says:

        the second you die you will believe in God the father and his son JESUS
        how can you look around and see the wonders of God that he has made
        and not know God made this world. If you don”t believe in Jesus
        why do you want to bother the people that do believe inJesus .
        we don’t bother you for not believing .

        • martykayzee says:

          Yada yada…

        • johninPCFL says:

          The answer to molesting priests? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life.

      • puzzled21 says:

        So does this mean that you are an Evolutionist? If so could you explain when that process ceased, are we to be considered the finished product? Why haven’t the monkey’s I took my children, and now Grandchildren, to see, evolved into a human? What protected the fragile, exposed parts of our system as they evolved without being covered/protected as they did so?

        • martykayzee says:

          There is something worse than willful ignorance. It’s belligerent ignorance. The act of taking such pride in one’s ignorance as to defend it unto death.

          That’s you, no?

          And the irony is that every question you fling wildly about is largely answered on of all places television. It’s the History Channel programs “The Universe” and “How the Earth Was Made” and a few others. You know how to watch television, don’t you. It’s easier than reading a book. Other than the Bible, of course.

          • puzzled21 says:

            Yes, that is me. I believe that Christ died, was buried and rose on the third day. Through the shedding of his blood I have received my salvation. As for the Bible, it is an easy read for those of us who are a part of the family, think of it like sheet music, if you aren’t a musician, you don’t understand it. The Bible was written for the followers of Christ Jesus, of which you are obviously not one. If you think that the miracle of birth came about through evolution, the Sun and Moon being just far enough away from earth not to burn it up or the stars being susppended perfectly so that the gravitational pull is perfect, or the earth revolving just at the correct speed not to slow or fast, or the seasons that change to allow the earth to replenish itself, are all due to evolution then please don’t take the time to respond.. Nothing on television can explain this to me. You are familiar with AAMCO, pay me now or pay me later. Christ is Lord and every knee will bow. Peace

          • martykayzee says:

            Sounds like you learned that from a parrot.

          • puzzled21 says:

            Sounds like you are the child of Satan, Peace

          • martykayzee says:

            If I am a child of Satan, why do you wish me peace? After all, I’m coming to get your soul…

          • puzzled21 says:

            As a child of the Most High GOD, I am secure in the knowledge that you or your daddy can’t touch my soul. I told you my salvation is in Christ Jesus, through the shedding of his blood. However, I am called to love you, even though you are my enemy, to feed you, if you are hungry, to give you water if you are thirsty ,to treat you as Christ would and allow him to do his thing. I know this is foriegn to you and those like you, compassion, the ability to accept that there is more than one position in any situation, the fact that intelligent people can discuss and disagree and still coexist harmoniously is unnatural. Peace is a by product of my relationship with the Father, Peace that passes all understanding, Iwish that for everyone. It is the Peace of Christ Jesus.

          • bellagram08 says:

            Heaven’s sakes. There is absolutely no reason that theology and evolution cannot both be right. You seem to sell God pretty short if you do not believe that He had the power to set in motion all those things of science, including evolution. Why shouldn’t He have a little help in creation?

          • puzzled21 says:

            His Word is quite clear as to how we, and everything we see, got here, he created it. God’s Word says that he spoke everything into existence, he created something from nothing, if you are a Christian, a follower of Christ Jesus, you either belive it or you don’t. You don’t get to mix it with the ideas of the world, nor are we to conform to this world. We are in the world, but not of it. Peace

          • bellagram08 says:

            And you don’t get to question my faith. I am very much a follower of Christ, and you do not get to judge that.

          • puzzled21 says:

            I am not questioning your faith and I would never judge you, there is obviously a difference in our beliefs. I believe, like a recipe, you can’t choose to use the ingrediants you want and leave the rest out, the bible is the same way, it is God’s Word, we don’t get to choose what we will or won’t follow. if it fits into our comfort zone. Can’t serve two masters. Peace

        • Michael Kollmorgen says:

          The Evolution of Man is not finished. Everytime someone grows a bit taller, that is evolution. Everytime someone becomes immune to a disease, that is Evolution. Everytime someone learns something new, that is Evolution.

          As our fellow animal being grow in intelligence, that is Evolution. Many species are supposed to be stagnant as far as evolving. But, this isn’t necessarily true.

          Recent research finding are finding out that there is a large array of animals who are evolving. Monkeys are evolving, teaching their siblings new tricks on how to do things. Dolphins are learning how to catch fish in better quantities to help the herd survive. Animals are growing bigger, that is Evolution We used to think it was animal instincts which drove animals. We’re finding out now that is not all true.

          The only animals which have remained stagnant are the Reptiles.

          Everything on earth Evolves. Some people choose to de-evolve. These people have become a new species of human – they’re usually called Evangelical Christians.

          • puzzled21 says:

            Obviously you have no idea as to what the evolutionist theory is based on. I took my Grandchildren to the Museum of Natural History, they have a film you should see. After you see it, you decide the probability of evolution being valid. As presented, my Grandchildren, who are six and ten, could see the fallacy, maybe it might help you. I understand your need to ridicule my faith, however, I am not an Evangelical, I am a follower of Christ Jesus, I am charged with spreading the good news, salvation is available through Christ Jesus, it is not to late for you. Read Collossians 3:12

          • bellagram08 says:

            Why don’t you research the theory of evolution? Cause it sounds like you do not know what it is. I am a Christian, and find no problem with evolution. I really dislike it when someone ridicules faith, but I also dislike it when someone tries to tell me that I am not a Christian because I believe in evolution.

          • puzzled21 says:

            I am tototaly clear on what evolution is. I am also crystal clear as to what the Fathers Word says in regard to creation. I have found nothing, in any text, in any language, where the Father speaks of evolution. With that being said, if you are a Christian, then what doctrine due you follow? The Word is perfectly clear on this subject. The Word also cautions not to add to or take away from, his Word. We can’t serve two masters, Christ does not teach evolution.

          • bellagram08 says:

            Apparently you are not clear on evolution if you think humans evolved from apes. I am Catholic, and here is a part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church “302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection” My church does not view the Bible as inerrent other than what we need for our salvation. We believe that the Creation accounts in scripture are there to tell us about who we are and what our relationship to the creator is, not to tell us how and when God created the universe. Of course we believe that God created the universe, but we also believe he created the process by which species evolved and the survival of the fittest. I believe that God used the Bible to teach me how to get to heaven, not how the universe was made.

        • bellagram08 says:

          Man did not evolve from apes – apes and humans evolved from the same thing (like cousins). Never have understood why people think we evolved from monkeys.

    • patuxant says:

      How: True but here is one Catholic (and I know many others) who don’t listen to El Papa either! Figured out the hypocracy long ago….

  14. donbronkema1 says:

    It seems reasonable to concede that Yashua ben Joseph

    –was born 7-4 YBP, probably in Nazareth
    –perished on a cross for political reasons

    But no other elements of the tradition are verifiable, & many defy credulity….Christianity is a ‘syncrete’ of the salvatory faiths of its time–fascinating, creative, even useful, but not original & certainly void of meaning in a blind cosmos.

    We atheists may enjoy–& are obligated to preserve–the cultural artifacts [art, music, literature], but must block any assertions of ecclesial authority in the agora.

    Modesty, of course, requires admitting that analysis, volition & consciousness are illusions.

  15. Del WS says:

    There’s a definite difference of opinion about the actual date of Christ’s birth. Some theologians believe it was in the spring, probably April, because the Christmas story mentions shepherds watching their flock by night and shepherds did the night watch when it was lambing time. A very few who’ve studied the history believe the date was some time in October. The main agreement is it wasn’t in December.

    Once again according to theologians who’ve familiarized themselves with the culture, the language and the history, an actual stable is not believed to be the place of birth, but that instead a storage room was where the Holy Family was given shelter. A storage room would explain why there were no animals there.

    I always had a problem with nativity scenes that show the three kings present because in truth the Christ Child was a year or two old before the Magi arrived on the scene.

    A lot of the original Christmas story has been colored up and added to, even though the story itself is remarkable enough to stand alone without the embellishments.

  16. Progressive Patriot says:

    I love Christmas (Channukah too), and hopefully try to be respectful of all religious choices. Still, it’s clear to me that freedom from religion is the best way to assure freedom of religion. So: Seperation of Church and State is essential to assure our democracy and protect it from becoming a Theocracy (American Taliban). And while we’re at it, we really need to take a stand for Seperation of Business and State. It’s become very clear that Business has corrupted our democratic process, and we must fight to take back our democracy from it’s greedy grasp.

  17. Rezon1 says:

    Dear Lovefacts – You need to check your facts and actually read the gospels. Does it really make sense that any government as efficient and pragmatic as the Roman Empire would require all it’s subjects to “return to the land of their birth to be counted?” How does that make any sense? If you want to count people, just count them where they are and if you want to know where they are from, ask them. The “fact” is, there is no record of any empire-wide census in Roman history. The entire purpose of the Bible story is to provide a mechanism for the unknown writers of the three gospels that tell about Jesus’ birth, to get Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem to fit a “prophecy.” It’s also informative to notice that Mark , the first gospel to be written, contains no reference to a miraculous birth. So much for your “facts.”

    • Lovefacts says:

      Dear Rezon1, I’ve always found it interesting how some people when they read or hear something they disagree with attack the other individual personally. As for myself, I didn’t say anything negative about Christians or their faith. As for the Gospels, sorry they don’t interest me. I’m a practicing Jew. Censuses done during the “Old Testament” or Tanakh, which is my bible, were done by tribe/family with the members returning to their family/tribal land. At the time, there were 12 tribes. So, it makes sense for the Romans to do their census the same way since this is what the people were used to.

  18. norman says:

    In my opinion, Benedict is just far too RADICAL to be the leader of the Roman Catholic church.

    I have read, many times, how this man has “bashed” priests, for using modern day examples, to teach Christian values (instead of using the age-old stories, from the outdated Old Testament).

    Ironically, even as Benedict has demanded that church staff, and followers, must lead lives based not on todays needs, such as clothing, mortgages, and utility bills, but based upon ancient lifestyles, when candles were the “high-tech” lighting, of homes.

    Even more ironic is that, even as he “bonks” members, for living in the modern world, he has the Vatican using solar panels, hybrid cars, internet web-sites, and so on.

    I really wish we had another John Paul 2 in the Vatican. J.P. 2 may not have been perfect, but he was more realistic.

  19. tax payer says:

    I don’t care what the Pope thinks because he will die just like everyone in this Planet and he really doesn’t know more then most of us, but he happens to be just a Pope and nothing else. He only wants to make money off those that want to read his lies.

  20. JOAQUIM says:

    How can we argue the bday of someone when historians are not sure he even existed?

  21. arsto says:

    Ask the Walton’s what christmas is all about.

  22. Our Puritan forefathers did not celebrate Christmas — they simple observed it as a holy day in the church calendar. Today’s “conservatives” invent as much as they “conserve”.

  23. Let’s try to put some light on this subject. The world’s wealth has been very successful in keeping minority and foreign immigrants coming across borders to fill the workers drafting and wanting to belong to a country where they can have all that is proposed (The American Dream). Religion can keep their fear level to a high standard in that they will fulfill that side of the bargain and wealth’s need own them without knowledge of said ownership.The Pope is totally out of touch with the world. He has his own worldly power and is there to dole out forgiveness to those who need condemnation and never forgiveness. Want to know why Senator Brown lost his seat? He had an ad done by a functional alcoholic who after being Mayor of Boston and opening all of it’s files to the FEDS to try to put the previous Mayor Kevin White in prison, did this ad for him. After he left the Mayor’s office he became a representative of the church during the exposure times. You know what I mean??? Make’s me wonder. Don’t get me wrong. Elizabeth Warren got my support 100%. The woman…Excuse me…Senator Warren is a buzz saw. She doesn’t know how to do nothing like the nasty Neoclowns. They are already scared of her and she is not even in her office yet. I love it. Oh and getting back to the immigrants. Everyone is too smart nowadays. It seams a street smart diploma is all that be needed. And the immigrants have them too. That’s why the Pubs sound so dumb when they try their old fashioned methods to hold onto the body, mind , soul, and finances of We The People. The hole they dig gets deeper and deeper. I can’t wait to see if they let the things slide over the cliff. Then they will have but 2 years to get their butts kicked out totally from DC. And all of their own making. The ignorant, arrogant, compassionless, world’s most lethal beings may be thrown off this planet. YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!

  24. rr3A says:

    Some countries in Latin America celebrate January 6th even more than Christmas….

  25. The people who believed these things to began with never read the Bible with the same amount of skepticism they would use when buying a used car.

  26. sambilano says:

    The Fox News is America’s most lying news channel and more than the 1940’s propaganda war machine.

  27. Eleanor says:

    Since there is no one who actually witnessed the birth of Christ,all anyone can rely on is writings of man. The translations through the years have never been the same by different men’s translations. So who knows??I used to love Christmas as a child because it represented the Birthday of Jesus. All this is long gone, and all it means today is how much more you spend than other members in the family or out do the neighbors in decorating. Comercialized and traded upon. Family dinners shared by the entire families are a thing going to the wayside. The morals, beliefs just aren’t there anymore. Such a sad thing. Families hardly ever get together even at Christmas, let alone sit down to a home cooked meal with immediate family together. What do we believe???I believe in my bible, and the teachings I recieved throughout my 75 years. Someone always have to try to destroy these things we revere and hold holy. Everyone has the right to believe in their higher power, and call it whatever they choose. Regardless of their faith.

  28. ridemybroom says:

    i think all of you here are missing the point…the point is this is a miraclous birth …not your ordinary birth and if you would go to Luke,( NT. ) and read the Christmas story think you might understand this a little more…there were sheppards, there were sheep…there were wise men and there were camels…and there were other animals…if marys donkeys was there at the birth, , there were animals…God provided the place for her to give birth and yes believe it or not they probably had food as well….this was again a miraclous birth…God sees after his own….the timing i think may have been later and i know Jan 6th is old Christmas cause i celebrate it…no one says it was warm or it was cold…as they all wore the same clothes in either case …there may have not been a manager but that was made i think to glorify God….a little more elaborate than saying he was born on a cold floor …in which i believe he was…i like the idea of a manger tho…..but the fact still remains…he was born and he came to give all peoples like you and me an eternity ….and if you dont believe he didnt then so be it…not gonna argue that point…i also celebrate pagan christmas… Christmas i believe was put at the end of the calendar year just to celebrate life and another year passing…it is men who has done this to its people…brainwashed us all and the Bible foretold all of this..i also know alot of the stricter Christians in this country does not and will not celebrate christmas…nor have they ever…whatever you do…go read the christmas story in Luke….maybe it will open your eyes a little more….!

    • johninPCFL says:

      And that’s the basis of the molester’s redemption. Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life. Backslide? Ask for forgivess, repent, and move on with your life.

      Justice based on a fairy-tale.

      • ridemybroom says:

        John the only fairy tale here is you…the bible says you wont get outta this world alive…you think you gonna prove it wrong….mr fairy tale….i like to see you pull it off…when that time comes for your death think you gonna out smart God….what a true idiot you really are !

        • johninPCFL says:

          Yeah, another “live forever” idiot speaks.

          I fully expect to die, like every person, plant and animal that has ever been, does. This is my one and only shot, and I go out knowing I’ve treated people well, made a little little business that has supported a dozen people for a few decades, had three great children who go forward. Regrets? Yeah, I’d like to have my knowledge, hard won, transplanted into another to continue forward

          You and the rest of the “live forever” kooks, on the other hand, do God’s work, so nothing imaginable is off the table. Have to torture and kill a few thousand in God’s name? Well that’s OK. Molest a few hundred thousand children? God forgives you. Build giant palaces to live in while your “flock” starves around you? These are God’s houses, and suffering to enter “paradise” is man’s lot.

          Nice handle, by the way. A fairy-tale just as valid as the other one we’ve discussed. How many were murdered over the years for that failed, miserable bigotry by the Mother Church?

          • ridemybroom says:

            John….we have already discussed the true idiot here and i do believe it was you and you readily admitted that…so why are we having this discussion…i dont need to know anything of your background…your life or your children…who cares what you did in your life…just remember God Killed no one…men did the work of the Devil for ages and ages and ages and people like you wanna pen it on God…Shows how un intelligible you are when it comes to knowing the Bible…you think you know it all but the truth of the matter is you know nothing ….and when your time comes it will be all revealed to you…by the way go read the Bible ande become informed…also please dont email me i dont usually read these things but i found you to be a bore and quite humorus…from here on out all emails will go to spam from you…..have a great day and see if you can take something to clear your head up….so you understand what you read…goodbye…

          • johninPCFL says:

            Odd, didn’t God smite millions among the various peoples in the OT, amongst them the entire human race save Noah and his family? Eh, small deal, maybe you forgot about them and that part of the Bible?

            Stay in the basement and live the life you chose.

  29. Skyline43 says:

    After all these years, LETS ENJOY CHRISTMAS. Christmas is the time to show love for one another–let’s leave it at that!!

  30. iamfrompasco says:

    April 6 is the real Christmas .

  31. Michael Kollmorgen says:

    All of these comments are all good. There is much “history” in all of these recent comments.

    It also seems that the early church was founded on Political Considerations and not true religious belief.

    This should also show people that it is dangerous and very misleading to strongly believe in ANY Religion whatsoever. As we know it, western religion does not stand on its own, but is mingled with politics at every turn.

    In fact, both do the very same job of controlling people, but use different methods to achieve their goals.

    One uses man made law, the other uses the concept of Sin. I prefer man made law.

  32. kinklu says:

    I watched O’Reilly yesterday in an interview/debate with Richard Dawkins with whom I don’t agree, although he makes some good points and seems to be sincere in his quest for fact based answers.

    I couldn’t believe what a fool Bill made out of himself in trying to act tough like the defender of Christianity. O’Reilly tough??? I really tried to be open minded about it since I’ve read most of Dawkins book, but I was really disappointed at Bill’s sloppy journalism.

    All he did was tell Dawkins that he, Bill, got to ask the questions and then when Dawkins tried to answer, Bill talked all over him as soon as he started to make a point. I was actually disappointed that I couldn’t hear Dawkins answers.

    What’s the point of an interview if you don’t allow the interviewee to answer. I don’t know how he manages to get someone to pay him for a slovenly performance like that…. unless, of course, it’s for propagandistic purposes.

  33. DebbyMac says:

    Happy Hollandaise to the National Memo staff–Politically and culinarily correct!

  34. Rezon1 says:

    Lovefacts – Perhaps you would explain how and where I “attacked” you “personally.” Your statement about the census is strictly supposition with no proof, whatsoever. Again, there is no documentation of any empire-wide census, which means debates about a particular method are pointless, beyond saying that “if” a census was taken (which it wasn’t) it’s not practical to require every person to travel to their ancestral home to be counted. It’s not like one just went to the nearest airport, forked over the money for a ticket and took a plane to wherever. They had to walk.

  35. JAYROSE says:

    I do not ask a priest or any one I am a child of god the father and his son died on the cross for my sins . when I make a mistake I take it to the lord in pray ask Jesus to for give me .
    no man can for give me only Jesus . no one is perfect hear on earth .

  36. Casey Croy says:

    As Christianity was spread North from the Mediterranean countries to the European via the conquering Roman armies, Roman emperors were smart enough to placate indigenous peoples by espousing their most popular festivals, accommodating their traditions and beliefs and introducing the Roman orgies of Saturnalia and Bacchanalia. In earlier times, Christianity had been all about the Crucifixion, Death and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, which redeemed mankind of the original sin of Adam and Eve. The birth of Jesus was minor; Salvation through Sacrifice was the main point. The Pope is on solid historical ground. Today’s American Christmas is all about economics and pop culture — not religion.

  37. Hillbilly says:

    As far as I am concerned the Pope has no idea when Jesus and what the conditions were of his birth when he was born. I have no respect for him or the Catholic Church. What little respect I did have for the Church I lost it when the Catholics let the 2 time adulter, 3 times married Newt Gingrich and his 2nd mistress who became his third wife be members of the Catholic Church. It is a sorry religion that says because his first twos wives weren’t Catholic the Church didn’t recognize those two marriage and in essence saying the children that Newt and his first wife had were in the eyes of the church illegitimate. The pope says all his laws that hegives to the followers of the Catholic Church is based on the Bible. If this was true, Gingrich and his third wife would have either had heavy stones hung around their necks for committing adultery and thrown in the river or would have been stoned to death as that is the punishment in the Bible for adultery.

  38. bellagram08 says:

    I thought that most Christians knew that a lot of the the Christmas tradition, like the date, the tree, and other festivities began as an attempt to encourage pagans and other groups to join Christianity. I think the real threat to Christmas is the hate shown by some “Christians” toward any who do not believe exactly as they do. I really cannot see Bill O’Reilly taking on the Pope – but if he wants to make a fool out of himself, so be it. It is not like Pope Benedict will not be celebrating Christmas.

  39. Jesus is the reason for the season, not this commercial plutocracy foisted on us every year.

  40. Roofer says:

    Did he happen to mention if the three wise men were groped by pedophile priests?

  41. Kevin says:

    We see this so called controversy about the decision to not display the Nativity scene in Santa Monica but it wasn’t accurate anyway. When you read the gospels on the birth of Jesus, the wise men didn’t arrive until approximately 2yrs afterwards and they arrive to their home, not at a manger. The Pope is correct in that the angels wasn’t at the nativity scene but rather they were seen by the shephards who was out in the fields and were told that a Savior was born. If you have a bible, please read the following passages for yourself. (KJV) Mathew chap: 2:1-11 with special attention to where the Wise Men arrived in v.11. Luke chap: 2:1-21 with emphasis on v.21 which shows no indication of Wise Men being present during the birth or the 8 days afterwards. You will see in both passages the fact that there were angels visible to the selected shephards in the fields. So, let us not get caught up in images or displays as the true gospel is in sharing the word with the lost. Another point we need to keep in mind is the fact that noone knows the true birthdate of Jesus as his birth corresponds to the arrival of Mary and Joseph returning to Bethlehem for the Census and be counted for tax purposes. There are many speculations however Dec 25th was a date selected to be the day to celebrate the birth of Christ.

  42. The Pope is right. Mary and Joseph would have family waiting for them. It would do religions good to rid themselves from myth and superstition. The Nativity scene is one. Jesus’ virgin birth is another. If your faith can’t withstand rational scrutiny, it’s not worth keeping it.

  43. onedonewong says:

    His book is just that his personal take on Christmas it has nothing to do with the churches teachings about Xmas

  44. Sierra111 says:

    The Catholic faith believes in mysteries, not taking the Bible literally. I believe that mysteries is the way to go. How do we not know that there were animals at Christ’ birth? He was born in Bethlehem which wasn’t his parents’ home.

  45. .. How can one really argue about the birthday of someone, the imaginary Jesus of fictional story, who was never born..?!?!?

    .. If someone was born in a manger, highly likely animals were around!

  46. gaeliclass says:

    Your article is completely mis-leading -if you had read the text of Pope Benedict that is not what he said. The Pope affirmed what most of us know — So why are you twisting this story by cunningly using a very misleading title..-Pope declares war on Christmas! That should be retracted.

  47. IThinkthereforeIVoteMHO says:

    Fox News “Flash” … “Well they call Him by the Prince of Peace, and they call Him by the Saviour, and they pray to Him upon the seas, and in every bold endeavor …
    As they fill His churches with Their pride and gold, and their faith in Him increases …
    But they’ve turned the Nature, that I worship in, from a temple, to a robber’s den, in the words of the Rebel Jesus …
    And perhaps we give a little to the poor, if the generousity should seize us,
    But if any one of us should interfere in the Business of why they are poor, They get the same as the Rebel Jesus …
    In this life of hardship, and of earthly toil, We have a need for anything that free’s us,
    So I bid You pleasure, and I bid You cheer, from a Heathen, and a Pagan …
    On the side of the Rebel Jesus …”

  48. bellagram08 says:

    I agree, so I do not pick and choose – I serve one master – the Lord Jesus Christ. I serve Him by way of the Church His apostles began, but I never sell God short. I truly believe that with God, all things are possible. So, do you really stone someone who mows their yard on the Sabbath? (Numbers 15:32-36), or stone your child if they are disobedient and do not listen to you? (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), or kill your child if they should curse you? (Exodus 21:17 and Leviticus 20:9).

  49. I don’t make people tell me “Happy Birthday” a month beforehand. I don’t feel hurt that other people have birthdays the same day as mine.
    I’m also pretty sure my own ego is more fragile than that of Jesus.

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