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GOP Candidates Snipe And Spar In Combative Sixth Debate

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GOP Candidates Snipe And Spar In Combative Sixth Debate

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In the fraught final two weeks before the Iowa caucuses, a rowdy, rambunctious group of agitated Republican candidates rehearsed their talking points and took well-honed snipes at each other in the first GOP debates of 2016 — and the sixth of the cycle — in Charleston, South Carolina. The debates, which aired on Fox Business, touched on gun control, ISIS, immigration policy, tax reform, and the utter devastation that would ensue from a Hillary Clinton presidency.

As before, a minor-league debate was scheduled at happy hour to collect the runoff candidates whose poll numbers failed to rise above a certain level. On deck for the warmup act were former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, and — in a fall from grace (or at least poll stature) — former Hewlett-Packard exec Carly Fiorina. (Kentucky Senator Rand Paul was invited to the kiddie-table debate, but opted not to show.) Assembled for the mainstage debate were Donald Trump, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, Dr. Ben Carson, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, and Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

Here were a few of the more memorable skirmishes from Thursday night’s debates.

Rubio Gets Off Easy

Marco Rubio emerged unscathed, flying underneath many of the gladiatorial bouts rumbling overhead. He lay low, and, for the most part, didn’t suffer much in the way of seeing his credibility impugned, his policies challenged, or any of his lies and mischaracterizations called out.

He relentlessly pummeled Cruz, when he assailed the Texas senator for switching his positions on immigration and on ethanol, which Rubio said was a transparent bid to garner Iowan support: “That is not consistent conservatism,” Rubio said. “That is political calculation.”

“I appreciate your dumping your oppo [opposition] research folder on the debate stage,” Cruz quipped, and accused Rubio of trafficking in outright falsehoods.

“No, it’s your record,” Rubio fired back.

(Bush curtly described the routine as a “back and forth between two senators — back bench senators”)

Rubio went unchallenged repeating his now familiar outlandish claims against Barack Obama, namely that he would take away every American’s gun if he could. Rubio said:

Look, the Second Amendment is not an option. It is not a suggestion. It is a constitutional right of every American to be able to protect themselves and their families. I am convinced that if this president could confiscate every gun in America, he would. I am convinced that this president, if he could get rid of the Second Amendment, he would. I am convinced because I see how he works with his attorney general, not to defend the Second Amendment, but to figure out ways to undermine it.

Rubio’s absurd characterization of Obama as an overzealous gun snatcher out to erase the Second Amendment has been proved patently false. And, shortly after he said it, his campaign was hawking blood red t-shirts with the line about the Second Amendment being “not an option” stamped on them.

He drove home his depiction of the president as one who has repeatedly ignored and stifled American exceptionalism, not out of ineptitude necessarily, but out of a philosophical inclination to view the U.S. as unremarkable: Obama, he said, “wasn’t interested in fixing America. We elected someone as president who wants to change America, who wants to make it more like the rest of the world,” which is why he has undermined the Constitution and cut deals with our enemies, Rubio said. He also insisted that constitutional rights don’t come from government, they come from God — echoing the far-right conservative Christian tack he took in a recent ad.

Rubio’s campaign has emphasized his youth and message of a better tomorrow, but he has always set himself up in direct contraposition to Hillary Clinton. In his final remarks he scraped away much of his well-honed optimism and forward-looking demeanor, going dark and apocalyptic with a solemn warning: “If we elect Hillary Clinton,” he said, “the next four years will be worse than the last eight, and our children will be the first Americans ever to inherit a diminished country.”

Cruz vs. Trump

The bromance is over. Trump and Cruz entered Thursday night’s debate without the slightest pretense of cooperation and friendship, deriding and disingenuously offering each other a VP spot.

Going into the debate, Cruz was dogged both by reports that he had failed to disclose a Goldman Sachs loan that he took out to finance his first Senate campaign, and by questions about the Canada-born senator’s eligibility as a “natural born citizen.”

Cruz flicked away the former by dismissing the source of the reports — The New York Times. The latter proved more troublesome.

It was Trump who began raising questions about Cruz’s citizenship, and the claim was initially treated as an absurdly outlandish (not to mention more than a little desperate) move on the tycoon’s part to weaken his most significant challenger in Iowa. But the issue remarkably gained currency from diverse corners, including conservative Trump supporters, constitutional law scholars, and even Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL), who has stated his intention to bring legal action against Cruz should he win the nomination.

“I”m not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump,” Cruz said, and suggested that by Trump’s logic — which he said derived from the findings of a “left-wing judicial activist” — even Trump himself would not be eligible to run for president, since his mother was a Scottish citizen. (Trump reminded Cruz that he was actually born in the U.S. — “Big difference.”) Trump blustered, but Cruz carried the round, and even got The Donald to sheepishly admit that the only reason he had introduced the issue was because of Cruz’s surging poll numbers.

In response to Trump’s impish choice of music at his rallies — Bruce Springsteen’s “Born In The U.S.A.” — Cruz had suggested before the debate that perhaps Trump would be better off playing “New York, New York” since he espouses “New York values.” Asked to elaborate exactly what he meant by that, the erudite Ivy League-educated senator delivered a sneering, preening description of what he believed heartland America thought of the Big Apple: “Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro- gay-marriage, focus around money and the media,” he said.

“Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan,” Cruz said, inverting a similarly charged remark from Trump in the days leading up to the debate, accusing Cruz of being a false evangelical because his father was from Cuba.

Although he may have won the citizenship bout, the “New York values” gambit blew up Cruz’s face, as all he did was tee Trump up to deliver an uncharacteristically sober and lucid defense of his home city. Trump described in visceral detail the devastation of 9/11, and the bravery and resilience he witnessed in the city’s resurgence. It may have been trite and opportunistic, but it shut Cruz up.

Cruz began his closing remarks simply and solemnly with the words: “13 Hours,” referring to Transformers director Michael Bay’s fictionalized account of the Benghazi attacks, which opened in theaters Friday. He concluded by speaking to all those  “maddened by political correctness,” to members of the military and law enforcement, and to the first responders: “This. Will. End,” he said. “I will have your back.”

Christie’s Terrible, No Good, Very Bad Night

Nobody brought up Christie’s infamous arm-in-arm with President Obama — but they didn’t have to. The New Jersey governor’s waverings on Common Core and gun control, and his support for Judge Sonia Sotomayor’s confirmation to the U.S. Supreme Court were enough fodder for Republican rivals to paint him as a watered-down Democrat.

Christie claimed that he had never supported Sotomayor — but those following the debate on Twitter were quick to point out that he, in fact, had.

Christie rallied at the end with a vociferous aria in defense of law enforcement and national defense, chastising the Obama administration for what he characterized as tepid support of police officers and soldiers, and its laissez faire attitude toward states’ legalization of marijuana.

“We need a fighter for this country again,” he said. “I’ve lived my whole life fighting — fighting for things that I believe in, fighting for justice and to protect people from crime and terrorism.”

Fiorina Really Wants Clinton to Notice Her

In the feisty undercard debate, each of the three warmup candidates played nice with each other as they took aim at familiar targets —the incompetence of the Obama administration, the dubious ethics of Hillary Clinton, the fallacies of Democratic economic policy. But all that anyone will remember is Fiorina’s schoolgirl taunts aimed at Hillary Clinton.

Fiorina invoked Clinton in both her opening and closing statements. She kicked off the debate by saying: “Unlike another woman in this race, I actually love spending time with my husband.” (The question was “What is your assessment of the economy right now?”)

And in the closing remarks, while both Santorum and Huckabee cited their experience fighting the “Clinton machine,” Fiorina took a less résumé-focussed tack. As she has done in past debates, Carly Fiorina used her final statement to argue that viewers’ desire to see her debate Hillary Clinton one-on-one was reason enough to give her the GOP nomination — as if all the Republican caucus wants from their nominee is someone who can put on a good show. (Oh wait.)

In a post-debate discussion with Chris Matthews, the MSNBC host hammered her repeatedly with the question: “Do the Clintons have a real marriage?” All Fiorina would say is, “They’ve been married for a long time.”

The Disappearance of Dr. Carson

As Dr. Carson careens into Iowa, his campaign is hemorrhaging talent, and his poll numbers continue to take the nose dive that started shortly after the Paris attacks (it turns out being visibly ignorant of international affairs only gets you so far). The retired neurosurgeon leavened his lack of substance with corny jokes and folksy anecdotes, which left commentators on Twitter scratching their heads and wondering how anyone ever took this guy seriously even for a moment.

“I was going to ask you to wake me up,” he told a moderator. If the good doctor had decided to take a nap, nobody on either side of the TV screen would blame him. Or, for that matter, notice he was gone.

Photo: Republican U.S. presidential candidate businessman Donald Trump (L) and Senator Ted Cruz speak simultaneously at the Fox Business Network Republican presidential candidates debate in North Charleston, South Carolina, January 14, 2016. REUTERS/Randall Hill  

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Sam Reisman

Sam Reisman is the former managing editor at The National Memo, where he still writes the weekly "This Week In Crazy" column. His writing has appeared in Flavorpill, The Huffington Post, Columbia Daily Spectator, and Bwog. He was the publisher of the 2010 edition of Inside New York, an annual guidebook to the city for students and young professionals.

Since 2011, he has co-curated and hosted Peculiar Streams, a showcase for NYC-based writers, musicians, comedians, and filmmakers. He is a staff writer at Mediaite, and blogs at SamReisman.com.

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103 Comments

  1. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

    “If we elect Hillary Clinton,” he said, “the next four years will be worse than the last eight, and our children will be the first Americans ever to inherit a diminished country.”

    So, the children born during the Great Depression didn’t inherit a diminished country? The USA has been steadily on the rise every year since it’s founding with no diminishment whatsoever until Obama came along? *facepalm* It’s sometimes amazes me the levels they take their fear mongering to. If you listen to these people, Obama is literally the worst thing that has ever happened to the USA and everything ever throughout our entire history was just rosy before he was elected. I didn’t think it was possible but their ODS is actually getting worse.

    Reply
    1. FireBaron January 15, 2016

      Tater, remember these mooks live in their own universe where “truth” is whatever tripe happens to spill out of their mouths at any given instance.

      1. plc97477 January 15, 2016

        Faux news stays very busy keeping them in the universe.

      2. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

        To say they live in a fantasy land is an understatement. There have always been arguments over different policies in the past but the modern Republicans flat out make stuff up. The reason why they do that is because they would never get elected to anything ever if they were completely honest about everything. They outright lie and their delusional sheep eat it up.

        Rebuilding the military is a good example. They scare people by claiming our military is weak and we’re not feared enough around the world. In reality, we spend more on our military than the next 8 countries COMBINED. We could cut our military spending by half and still easily be the strongest military in the world. What’s so sad about all of that is so many people are stupid enough to believe what they are told without bothering to see if the claims are actually accurate.

        1. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

          Has anyone else noticed the major changes in the military over the last ten years or so? We are getting a new fighter jet, a new tank, a new utility vehicle all in the works and we have drones doing the work that troops on the ground one had to do. We are also sadly redoing our Nukes. If this is making our military weak I would hate to see what making it strong would be. Warfare is changing but the dim witted conservatives don’t understand it. Obama is trying very hard to look liberal but his actions make him almost right wing.

          1. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            The military is not good at picking weapon system. A relative of mine sold the government the M1 Abrams. He know that it wasn’t the best tank out there but it was what the Pentagon wanted. As long as we keep paying the bills the Pentagon will keep wasting money.

          2. ralphkr January 15, 2016

            You’ve reminded of an experience of a former coworker, bobnstuff. He was in a military unit tasked with developing & testing an airborne enabled amphibious vehicle. By the time each ranking officer showed up and entered his suggestions the vehicle was large enough to carry an Abrams, had 12 foot wide tracks, carried 2 gun turrets, plus lots of armor. It was both too big and too heavy for any aircraft and would only stay afloat on dead calm water. Oddly, the Marine Corps did not buy any of them (I guess there were no companies wanting to build that monstrosity with the correct Congressmen in their pocket).

        2. ralphkr January 15, 2016

          But, Tater, it is obvious how terribly weak today’s US military is compared to how strong it was in 1790. We are down to only one wooden hull sailing ship of the line (the frigate USS Constitution), far fewer smooth bore muzzle loading cannon (little or no ammunition for them either), and we have lost nearly all our muzzle loading muskets.

          1. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            I would be perfectly happy with the 2A if people were only allowed to own muskets. Here’s a helpful depiction of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LORVfnFtcH0

          2. ralphkr January 15, 2016

            The problem, Tater, is that the Second Amendment was authorizing the AK47 of the time in granting the right of civilians to bear military weapons and form militias with which to defend the US from foreign & domestic aggressors. It all stemmed from the founding fathers well-founded fear of a large standing army.

          3. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            If people who owned AK-47s were a part of a well regulated militia for the purpose of defending the USA, I would not object to that. Private citizens, however, have no business owning and bearing military weapons. There’s nothing in the 2A that says we have to allow citizens to own any and all weapons nor does it say we have to allow them to stockpile enough to arm a small army. I’m perfectly happy with rifles for hunting and handguns for self defense but there should absolutely be limits on what kind of guns are allowed and how many people are allowed to own.

  2. charleo1 January 15, 2016

    I think we watched Dora the Explorer. She at least covers new ground once in a while. For Pete’s sake, can’t they ever take up an issue where their might be some daylight between the contestants? How about campaign finance reform? Since Mr. Trump is constantly attacking his rivals for all the money they take. Money he says they’ve begged him for. Money he’s given them in the past, and now uses to discredit them personally, instead of debating with them on the issues. Ho-Hum. It’s a good thing it seems and all, they are finally cancelling the series. For what little I’ve been able to learn about the candidates I didn’t already know. It’s been a bust.

    Reply
    1. mike January 15, 2016

      More of your asinine posts. Thanks for the laugh. What is really comical is the fact you are betting on Hiliary an old hag with a history of lying. Her numbers are upside down, she is not trustworthy. Her polling shows more negative than positive, women are walking away and she is a pathetic campaigner.
      Look at your candidates, old, white, and tired looking. Where is all that diversity?The candidies on the right are younger, smarter, more diverse and better informed. I think the joke is on you!!!

      1. jmprint January 15, 2016

        And to think mike, even with the deficiency you claim, they are still 100% better then the republican clowns.

        1. mike January 15, 2016

          LOL!! You got all their deficiencies right, polling shows that.
          Clowns! Only in your biased and uniformed mind.
          Keep trying! One these days you will get it right, hopefully.

          1. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            There is only one poll that counts and it comes from the voting booth. The question is will people buy Trumps lies enough to show up and vote for him.

          2. mike January 15, 2016

            You are assuming again, about trump. So sad! Will you ever learn??
            You should ask the same question about Hillary, if she is indicted it becomes a moot point. Hillary has already been caught in lies and will the Obama coalition come out for her. I doubt it. Women running away from her. Blacks far from enthused.
            She has a big hurdle to jump with her untrustworthy numbers so high.
            But keep have those delusions of grandeur, it fits you

          3. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            I don’t believe I mentioned Hillary’s name. She has to have committed a crime to be indicted but what happens when Trump is indicted? I believe that bribery is still a crime and he brags about it. As I have said though there is only one poll that counts at that is the real election, not the one in the press.

          4. mike January 15, 2016

            FBI has increased their investigation which more than likely means she is in more trouble than you can live with.
            Yes, Election Day is the final poll but at this time she is in trouble, the clintons no longer have the political clout they once had or are they the titular head of the party. They belong to a side of the democrat party that has been weakened by Obama policies, smallest # in congress since before FDR. What Clinton is finding in this primary is a powerful ascending wing of impatient unhinged progressive activists.
            She is being pulled far to the left which leaves her more vulnerable in the general election.
            Yes, the election will determine everything and Hillary has a very up hill battle ahead.

          5. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            Funny all the information on the investigation is coming from Fox not the FBI. The FBI should investigate, it’s their job but when they are done and they get nothing they need to make a big deal about it. The witch hunt just keep going and Fox will keep talking about it even when there are no facts to tell. They also need to investigate Trumps dealings, his bribes and his ties to the mob, How much did he know about the money laundering?

          6. mike January 15, 2016

            First, the facts are already exposed, she used an unsecured server, had “top secret’ emails which she said never were there.
            The investigation is not over so no wonder the FBI is quiet.
            You should ask the prosecutors why Trump isn’t charged. Now who controls NY? Democrats!

          7. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            If you bribe enough people you can get away with murder can’t you.

          8. mike January 15, 2016

            Yes, If they’re democratic officials.

          9. bobnstuff January 15, 2016

            Nope, He is an equal opportunity briber. Ask him he will tell you.

          10. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            It’s amusing to me to watch conservatives spend so much time and energy attacking Hillary. They won’t know what to do with themselves when Bernie crushes them in the general election.

          11. mike January 15, 2016

            I see you have had too many “over the falls” and “wipeouts.”
            Bernie is a socialist and after the dismal years of Obama attempting to move us to a european type economy and welfare system only you unhinged progressive activitists would believe he has a chance in hell of even competing. The American people see the fallacy of his plan so don’t hold your breath.
            You surfer dude are delusional.

          12. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            LOL I don’t surf. There’s sharks out there. Man may be the top predator on land but sharks are the top predator in the sea. I stay out of their turf and they stay out of mine and we’re all cool. Unless they grow legs. Then we’re all screwed. Land sharks! Run away!

          13. mike January 15, 2016

            Well, at least your head isn’t totally up where the sun doesn’t shine.
            But seriously, I don’t think he has a chance of winning the general election.
            Have a great weekend! As to land sharks, they live among us, be watchful.?

          14. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            People have been saying Bernie has no chance of winning since the moment he got in the race. Look where he is now. He’s gotten more individual donations than anyone in history. More people have showed up at his rallies than any other candidate. The only reason Hillary had such a big lead was name recognition. The more people hear Bernie, the more his numbers go up and the more hers go down. And if you think he has no chance at winning the general election, you clearly haven’t been paying attention to the polls of head to head matchups, where Bernie crushes the Republicans. America’s landscape is changing faster than some people realize and the establishment is still trying to play by the old rules. There are going to be a lot of shocked people at how this year’s election turns out.

            Hey, political disagreements don’t mean we should lose our sense of humor. A great weekend to you too!

          15. mike January 15, 2016

            Now, Now, pineapple brain. ? Kidding!!
            Your side won’t elect the next president nor mine , it will independents and they are far from progressive.
            When they start listening they will hear Bernie saying no more nuclear, fossil fuel, more debt, higher taxes, down with Wall Street, European economy, free this free that, everything that goes against American values. etc.. What I find fascinating is this attack on the 1% and how they must be taxed more, if Bernie took all their income over 1 million it would amount to $600 billion.and would cover entitlementsnd money it would barely cover the entitlements. They pay about 40% now. So the deficits would rise, debt would increase and economy and standard of living for all would go down. That’s Bernie in a nut shell, be like Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. Now how are they doing?? Not that great.

          16. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

            It’s the Republicans wanting to give insane tax cuts to the rich that will blow up the deficit and the debt. You don’t strike me as a troll, so I’ll give a shot at explaining some of this. Basically, everything you’ve been led to believe about Bernie is at best a mischaracterization and at worse outright lies.

            What you’re thinking when you talk about how much all of this will cost is under the standards of the current system. What’s being left out is the fact that Bernie would change the system altogether and we would end up saving more than we would spend. Take healthcare for example. Let’s say you’re paying $500 a month for health insurance now but Bernie wants to tax you $300 a month for health insurance. Conservatives scare their base by saying how much Bernie will tax them and they make everyone think they will now be paying $800 a month. What they conveniently ignore is the fact that there will be no more private insurance, so you won’t be paying the $500 anymore, you’ll only be paying the $300, therefore saving $200. All the other countries who have universal healthcare pay far less per capita and gets better results than the USA does. That’s not by accident. It’s by design. Bernie’s plan would get rid of private insurance companies and put a leash on Big Pharma. If given the choice, I’d much rather pay more in taxes if it means I spend less overall because I’m no longer being robbed blind by people who value profit more than the lives of citizens.

            Let me ask you this, do you consider roads to be giving away stuff for free? It’s an investment in infrastructure. We invest in infrastructure because of how it improves our country in so many different ways. I view investing in the education of our youth in basically the same way. “Free” college is basically an investment in the “infrastructure” of our country. 50 years ago, getting a college education was very cheap. Even poor people could get a degree without going into massive amounts of debt. Now most middle class people can’t even do that. I don’t consider investing in the future of our country to be giving stuff away for free.

            Thinking Bernie wants to increase the amount of people on welfare is the biggest lie of all. Bernie wants to create a system where people don’t need welfare in the first place because they get paid enough to not need it. The biggest recipients of welfare in our country are the super rich; the Waltons being the worst offenders of them all. Do you have any idea how many billions the Waltons receive in corporate welfare because they won’t pay their employees a living wage? These are 6 people who own as much as the bottom 40% of the country. They could pay every one of their employees enough that none of them would be on any kind of welfare and they’d still be billionaires. Reagan’s “welfare” queen is a deception. There are very few cases of welfare fraud. The majority of people on welfare are either sick, elderly, children or people already working full time. Meanwhile, the Waltons of the world keep raking it in while the taxpayers get stuck feeding their employees. That has to stop. Bernie wants fewer people on welfare. So do I. The lazy won’t be rewarded under Bernie’s system. It’s the hard workers who will be rewarded.

            Lastly, you’ve gotta stop buying into trickle down economics. They do not now nor have they ever worked. Rich people don’t create jobs. The middle class creates jobs when they have disposable income. When people have money, they spend money, then businesses hire more employees to keep up with business. Rich people have no incentive to hire more employees when nobody has any money to spend. Look at how the economy is booming in Seattle since they raised the minimum wage. Now look at how Kansas has done under Brownback with his ultra-conservative policies. If you want to know what the USA would look like under the current right wing extremists, all you have to do is look at how bad Kansas is screwed right now. They can’t even afford to keep their schools open because of all the mega tax breaks they gave to the rich. The economy booms and the standard of living rises when there is more money circulating through the economy. That is proven time and time again throughout history.

            Bonus fun fact: there are now more jobs in solar than there are in coal. Keep that in mind the next time a conservative says killing the coal industry will lead to massive job losses. What we should be doing is going into the coal mining communities and retraining the workers to do solar or even jobs building infrastructure. All their hard work over the years should be rewarded. They should not be cast aside.

            I say this genuinely. I hope you learned something today.

          17. mike January 16, 2016

            Wow! I woke up to this long missive and will make a couple points.
            The deficit and debt have gone up not down in last 7 years, but not from tax cuts but from over spending. Americans are paying more taxes(46% of revenue) now and the govt revenues are at historical average but deficits and debts are still going up. Corporations have gone from 30% of revenues to 10%, social security & retirement payments represent 33% from10%.
            As to Bernies healthcare. It sounds good but no one knows the details, but he promises to give them by Iowa. He claims to be able to save from $3500 to $5000 per family but we heard the same thing from Obama and that proved to be a lie. He claims to be able save by eliminating waste, again, obama said the same and little has been done. Best case scenario is about 20% cut in cost, bad news it would take between 42-47% reductions to work. From what he has said with his tax increases there would still be a short fall of 600 billion per year.
            LIke Obama he can’t guarantee better care or more options.
            As to solar employment, yes more employed but it represents just .29% of energy where wind(killing millions of birds) is just 4.5%.
            You love and trust big government I don’t. You wish to have all people the same walking in lock step with little to no incentive for self improvement. Trying to make US with 300 million like Sweden, Norway, Denmark with only 19 million isn’t realistic.
            Just my thoughts!Have a great weekend.

          18. @HawaiianTater January 16, 2016

            You’re wrong about the deficit. It is only the debt that has gone up. The deficit has gone down under Obama. We agree that spending must be kept in check but the best way to do that is to find more cost effective ways to spend. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/796d4581f8763dc90e964e20eba3a8dfd9d67a9b5b9cd4ebede7695ab7658441.jpg

            There really is no comparison between Obama’s healthcare plans and Bernie’s. Obamacare is a capitalist scheme designed to make Big Pharma and the private insurance companies rich. Calling Obamacare socialism is a great conservative lie, just the same as calling Obama a socialist. Obama is a right leaning big money centrist. The ACA was designed to continue making people rich at the cost of people’s lives. Once you get private insurance out of the game and put a leash on Big Pharma, healthcare costs will plummet. That’s why we will be able to cover everybody at less than what we are spending now. But, we can talk about that more when he releases his plan in the next few weeks.

            *sigh* I do get annoyed at the whole “you love big government” argument. In a lot of ways I’m libertarian when it comes to the government. I like my freedom TYVM and I’m a big proponent of the government staying out people’s personal lives. They do have to play a role in the economy though or otherwise we’d all be economic slaves. If you want to know what that would look like, study up on what worker’s rights were like a century ago during the robber baron days. Think of it this way, without the government protecting your rights as a worker, you’d be owned by the big corporations and have no say at all. At least with government regulation, we get a vote in which policies are implemented. I’d like to see the red tape cut for small business but the big corporations absolutely have to be regulated. They certainly aren’t going to take care of their employees out of the kindness of their own heart. See: Wal-Mart. While I do want the government setting the guidelines, I don’t want them stepping in and running businesses themselves. As long as a business operates within the guidelines, there should be no reason for the government to be hounding them.

            There you go with the more taxes! more taxes! shtick lol… those are not tax increases in a vacuum. They are taxes to replace money being spent elsewhere and will lower our overall costs. You should really stop letting the evil tax word scare you into spending more money just to avoid a tax. Just sayin’.

            When conservatives think of socialism, they equate it more with communism than they do with the brand of democratic socialism that Bernie represents. No one is talking about the government owning and operating everything. Democratic socialism is still very much capitalism. It just designs the system so everyone can succeed, instead of just those at the very top. The best thing for the USA is to have a mix of capitalism and socialism. Going all in on socialism would be just as bad as going all in on capitalism. We function the best with a balance of the two. Look back to how things were under FDR’s New Deal. We had the strongest economy in history and built the strongest middle class in history. Trickle down BS has been eroding that society away for the past 40 years and put us in the position we are in now. The current batch of GOP candidates would make that even worse. The last time we had this much income inequality was in 1929. You know what happened next. If we continue giving tax breaks to the rich and deregulating all the banks, we’re absolutely going to have another Great Depression. Dubya almost sent us there and even he looks moderate compared to what they are suggesting now.

            BTW, thanks for the civil discussion. Funny thing about the internet… I don’t come across too many conservatives willing to do anything but insult lol

          19. mike January 16, 2016

            OMG!!! I misspoke! Let the earth open up and swallow me.
            Yes, deficits have gone down but debt has risen to record highs. Having admitted I misspoke, this is what I should have said. After 2016 CBO is projecting by 2025 the deficits will be 1 trillion a year and a combined 7 trillion more debt during that 10 year period. That’s how I should have said it. The Deficits will rise.
            My God you’re windy. Another long, in fact too long, missive.
            As to the chart which shows it is Bush’s deficit just isn’t quite correct. It really is a Bush/Obama deficit. The 2009 budget was signed in February of 2009 by Obama. If was passed by the House in Aug. 08 with a projected deficit of a little over 400 billion, with revenue at 2.7 trillion. December “08” TARP and the Democrat ARRA in 2009 plus lower revenues changed the original deficit projection to an actual 1.4 trillion. Obama played a role.
            Now to the rest.
            I never talked about Bernie wanting our economy as a true socialist economy. What I did say in past interviews he felt we should be like Norway, Denmark and Sweden, which are true socialist countries, govt. and business hand in hand.
            I never made any comparisons of Bernie/ACA. The fact is that Obama stabbed Waxman in the back on drug prices. Waxman wanted lower prices but Obama made a deal with the pharma’s(as you call them) for their support on ACA he would stop Waxman. Which he did.
            As to govt and business. Go look at the Federal Register and the 21,000 thousand new regulations consisting of almost 500,000 new pages under Obama. Billions of dollars taken out of the private sector each year. But you want Bernie a socialist to run the country. Strange. Bush was no better but Obama added many more major regs. costing billions more.
            We already have a mix of Capitalism and Socialism and it isn’t working.
            Give me an example of more taxes lowering our costs. Govt has never been good at lowering costs without consequences.
            Got to go!!! Have a good Sunday.

          20. Robert Eckert January 17, 2016

            “Yes, deficits have gone down but debt has risen” Debt rises whenever the deficit is not zero. If you want to get back to surplus, elect a Clinton again, or have Republicans in Congress that are willing to co-operate with a Democrat in the White House.

          21. mike January 17, 2016

            I think you have that backwards on cooperation. Your president has no interest to find common ground. He loves those EO’s. Obama always had a scorched earth policy when it came to republicans. You seem to forget Ryan was invited to a Obama speech sat in the front row and listen as Obama went on the attack of Ryan’s plan.
            BTW, Clinton did find ground and got things done.
            Obama is a dogmatic ideologue, period. There is no compromise in his body.

          22. Robert Eckert January 17, 2016

            It was the Republicans who swore non-cooperation before he was even inaugurated. On the left Obama is criticized for bending over backwards trying to find compromises with the Republicans long after it should have become plain that this was impossible. I never fail to be astonished at how the right wing spins these stories which are so utterly detached from the reality.

            “BTW, Clinton did find ground and got things done.” OK then! Let’s just elect another Clinton.

          23. mike January 17, 2016

            No, they did what any opposing party does, oppose and protect what their constituents deem the right path on issues. They don’t Just roll over and play dead. Only in your mind the democrats never did that to Republican presidents. Tip never opposed Reagan, right?
            Obama bending over backwards, what an assinine statement. What universe are you living in? He had control of the government and didn’t need the republican vote.
            I guess you don’t remember his meeting with congressional leaders and republicans presented their views and Obama looked at McCain and said “the election is over”, “I won”. Or when he basically said “I won, you lost.” Deal with it on govt. shutdown. Which summed up his position going forward. He was ideologue then as he is now. He doesn’t compromise.

            A DOGMATIC IDEOLOGUE.

          24. Robert Eckert January 17, 2016

            “No, they did what any opposing party does” You are wrong. Nothing like this level of obstruction has ever happened before. “Only in your mind the democrats never did that to Republican presidents.” The filibuster was used more often against Obama than against all previous Presidents put together. “Tip never opposed Reagan, right?” Tip made numerous compromises with Reagan. Their level of collegiality, in spite of their political differences, was quite famous in fact.

          25. mike January 17, 2016

            Reagan made numerous compromises with Tip is more like it. Reagan was never the ideologue that Obama is and continues to be. Now how often has Obama spent time socially with either party? He hasn’t!
            He is a dogmatic ideologue!

          26. Robert Eckert January 17, 2016

            “Reagan made numerous compromises with Tip is more like it” The two made compromises with each other. That is what “compromise” means.

            “Reagan was never the ideologue that Obama is and continues to be.” Obama is one of the least ideological, most pragmatic Presidents of my lifetime. This depiction of him that the right wing pumps out has no connection to reality.

          27. mike January 17, 2016

            Compromise doesn’t exist in Obama’s world.
            No. We live in the real world you in the world of delusion. Obama least ideological, pragmatic bull roar. Enjoying the chuckle.
            Obama is a dogmatic ideologue, period!

          28. Robert Eckert January 17, 2016

            I defy you to name a single action Obama has taken or a single word he has ever spoken that would indicate he believes a single thing you have attributed to him.

          29. mike January 17, 2016

            Obamacare isn’t redistribution??
            Leading from behind on Foreign affairs that has caused the ISIS and the mass killing. The loss of trust by leaders around the world
            His distruction of the Coal industry and other fossil fuels to meet a false narrative on climate change.

          30. Robert Eckert January 18, 2016

            No, Obamacare isn’t redistribution. Poor people don’t get money out of falling ill and being treated. The money goes to doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies, all of whom are already wealthy. What Obamacare does is to make sure that more health care problems are actually treated, lessening the general burden which untreated illness lays on the whole world.

            ISIS was caused by Bush’s massive interventionism which destroyed the stability of the whole region. Leaders and populations around the world trust Obama MUCH MUCH more than they trusted Bush. Asserting the opposite is a primary example of how right wingers nowadays say things that are 180 degrees opposite from fact.

            He does believe in climate change, like the scientists who devote their lives to figuring these things out, and like anyone with common sense who gets outside the house once in a while. “Peak Coal” (the point at which all the easy coal to mine is gone, and demand for the coal that can still be exploited is bound to go steadily down in the future) is something that has been forecast for a long time and has finally arrived in the view of Goldman Sachs (not a liberal institution) http://peakoil.com/consumption/goldman-sachs-peak-coal-is-here

            for reasons well beyond Obama’s control. Obama has on the other hand assisted a major expansion of fossil fuel production in this country in the forms of fracking for natural gas and distillation of tar shales, driving a remarkable plunge in the world’s oil price (broke below $30 a barrel last week when not so long ago it was $160) and resultant gasoline prices (well below $2 a gallon now, apparently for the long term).

          31. mike January 18, 2016

            I think you are so far up Obama a$$ you have no idea what is happening in the world.

            Obamacare is redistribution. The young and healthy pay for the old and sick.

            http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304591604579288233398520354

            http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamacare-isnt-about-health-its-about-wealth-redistribution

            http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/01/obamacare-and-inequality

            Yes, Bush started war but Obama ignored his generals took troops out of Iraq and ISIS has been become a major terrorist group in the middle east.
            As to trust, you are wrong again. the Middle East countriesdo not trust him, Saudi Arabia now talking to Russia, Israel talking to Russia. He is not trusted because he says one thing and does the opposite or does nothing.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-obama-doctrineleadingfrombehind/2011/04/28/AFBCy18E_story.html

            http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0210-bolton-obama-national-security-strategy-20150210-story.html

            As to coal, in 2008 he said he was going to close coal plants even if it would raise costs. All this for a two one-hundredth of a degree in temperature change in 100 years.
            As to fracking he has had nothing to do with it because it is being done on private land. In fact he has had EPA figing it .

          32. Robert Eckert January 18, 2016

            “Obamacare is redistribution. The young and healthy pay for the old and sick.” The old and sick don’t get the money, and the young (who seldom also do get sick, you know) will eventually become old (unless their sicknesses are untreated young so that they die). This is not “redistribution” but paying for general services, much as everyone pays for roads and schools etc.

            “Yes, Bush started war but Obama ignored his generals took troops out of Iraq ” The Iraqi government demanded that our troops get out of there, and Bush agreed to the timetable. Nobody in Iraq was going to agree to our troops staying unless they were subject to prosecution in Iraqi courts for any alleged war crimes, a condition our generals adamantly refused to accept for quite excellent reasons.

            “As to trust, you are wrong again.” No, I’m not. http://www.gallup.com/poll/121991/world-citizens-views-leadership-pre-post-obama.aspx

            “Saudi Arabia now talking to Russia” Are you completely insane? Saudi Arabia is engaged in a campaign of flooding the world’s oil markets, explicitly for the purpose of doing damage to Russia (and Iran), as they state quite openly (and as Russia quite openly complains about). They are closer to being downright at war with Russia than at any time in history.

            “All this for a two one-hundredth of a degree in temperature change in 100 years. ” You are off by orders of magnitude. The temperature change has already been sufficient to cause devastating floods of two major port cities and prolonged droughts in major agricultural lands, and this is only going to accelerate, thanks to people like you.

            ” In fact he has had EPA figing it ” Direct opposite of truth.

            “Oil prices are down not from anything Obama is doing but from the fact Demand is down and Supply is up.” Supply is up as the result of intentional policy choices, within the US and on the part of the Saudis. Demand also is up, compared to the crashed economy Bush created, but supply has gone up faster.

          33. mike January 18, 2016

            No you are wrong again.

            http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/06/05/obamacare_and_redistribution_it_ll_be_great.html

            As to Iraq, you left out the fact that IRAQ wanted more than 10k troops that obama was willing to leave, so obama walked away without even negotiating prosecution concern. He wanted out and ISIS was born.

            You give me a Gallup poll from 2008-9. If you would have used a more resent poll you would have seen every middle east country on trusting or confidence in Obama are now negative.
            http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/07/18/chapter-2-global-opinion-of-barack-obama/
            Only you would believe since 2013 his numers would go up after ISIS, Iran deal, etc.. He is not trusted at home or abroad.

            Saudi and iran are close to war not Russia. In fact Putin criticized Iran’s attack on Saudi Embassy. You seem to ignored Israel going to Russia. Funny

            http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/07/16/climate-change-policy-wont-change-global-temperatures

            As to fracking the EPA plan is to force companies to disclose chemicals used, Interior is also getting involved.

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/20/obama-administration-tightens-rules-on-oil-and-gas-fracking/

            Any idiot knows oil demand is down not up and supply is still going up .

            http://www.vox.com/2015/1/5/7493799/oil-prices-chart

            http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/13/business/energy-environment/oil-prices.html

          34. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            We agree on one thing for certain. What we’re doing now isn’t working. Bernie may not be perfect but I will take my chances on the guy who is honest and not owned by the billionaires. That’s too rare a combo to pass up.

            Was that short enough? lol

          35. mike January 17, 2016

            Yes, much shorter but with no rebuttal to many important facts but that’s fine.
            As to Bernie I think you are living in la la land.
            Enjoyed the conversation.

          36. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            I’m not a libertarian. I said I agree with libertarians on keeping the government out of our personal lives; the two main things being government surveillance and telling us what we can and cannot do with our own bodies. I really don’t fit wholly into one category. There are ideas from every group that I agree with. I’m socially liberal but fiscally responsible and I hate PC as much as Donald Trump. Unlike so many other sheep we have in our country, I think for myself and make my decisions based on the evidence. I never take anything at face value and never simply accept what I am told without making up my own mind. We’d all be a lot better off if people used their brains instead of shuffling through life like mindless sheep.

            What liberties do you think Bernie will be taking? The liberty of big banks and big corporations to screw over the working man? Because I consider that to be giving us MORE liberties. As in, the liberty to not be an economic slave to the billionaire class. Again, I refer you back to what life was like back in the robber baron days. That’s not a past we want to revisit.

            “more taxes lower costs”

            Are you referring to Bernie’s healthcare plans? If you are, the lower costs will come from eliminating private insurance companies and putting a leash on Big Pharma so the Martin Shkrelis of the world can no longer price gouge. The higher taxes will pay for it while saving us money in the process. There are two choices here and you are going to be paying for healthcare either way. You can either pay it as a tax or pay it to a private insurance company. Paying the tax will be cheaper than paying for insurance. I dunno about you but if given the choice, I’m going to choose the option that costs less and produces better results.

            There’s nothing la la land about supporting Bernie. He crushes Republicans in head to head polling and he is surpassing Hillary in the primaries. Don’t be shocked in a year when we are inaugurating President Sanders.

          37. mike January 17, 2016

            Headed to church. Will respond later.

            Here is what you said.

            “There you go with the more taxes! more taxes! shtick lol… those are not tax increases in a vacuum. They are taxes to replace money being spent elsewhere and will lower our overall costs”

          38. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            Yes, exactly. I just explained that. Raising taxes to pay for health insurance means paying less overall because private insurance will be eliminated and Big Pharma will be reigned in.

            Have a great day at church!

          39. mike January 17, 2016

            How you can make such a statement is beyond belief. No one knows what Bernie’s healthcare plain is other than his word, a long time Senator who votes for every social program no matter what the cost.
            Once we really see his plan and cost,only then, can an intelligent discussion be had and its possibility of getting thru Congress.
            What really is unbelievable is that you think more taxes must be raised to reign in insurance and the drug companies.
            Under ACA “risk corridors” were set up to pay insurance companies for there loses but Obama is paying only 10% of there loses. Where are the other 20 million who have not signed up?
            What I see in good old Bernie is if he gets to the general election he will be the new modern day
            McGovern. We know how that turned out. If Hillary loses the first two primaries watch democratic leadership panicking.

          40. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            Raising taxes does not lower costs. Eliminating private insurance companies and reigning in Big Pharma lowers costs. Raising taxes pays for the new system. It’s not that complicated a concept. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/27dd35567b2ef0e6681e8067cf701618f14042a98a15f17c290a1da97589a0ca.jpg

          41. mike January 17, 2016

            Keep trying no cigar!!

          42. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            If you had the choice between paying $300 a month for health insurance and paying $500 a month for health insurance, you’re telling me you would choose to pay the $500?

          43. mike January 17, 2016

            You have no idea what you will paying. Let’s see the details!

            So tell me who pays the $200.00 difference? The taxpayers, right?
            What are you? A taxpayer!
            Still no cigar!

          44. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            There IS no $200 difference. The cost would be $300 instead of $500. Would you choose to pay $300 in taxes or $500 to a private healthcare insurance company? It’s a simple question.

          45. mike January 17, 2016

            Are you comparing apples to apples.
            Again you are assuming too much about costs.
            More importantly these govt programs don’t guarantee level of care just coverage that has been spotty at best.
            You want single pay I don’t as well as many other Americans.

          46. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            You seem to have difficulty answering questions lol

          47. mike January 17, 2016

            Don’t get too smug, it is inappropriate and unnecessary considering your lack of responses.
            You asked a hypothetical about a program that doesn’t exist. There is no answer.
            All the stats I have given on ACA, obama on drug deal, poor performance of health care In Norway, and many more and silence from you.
            So ignore and deny, that’s fine.

          48. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            Calm down, calm down. I was just teasing you a bit.

            You watching the debate?

          49. mike January 17, 2016

            No watched Downton Abbey and new series Mercy on pbs.
            I am about to do the ROFLMAO after reading he said he was going to tax the 1% at 50%.on healthcare.
            Going over to one of the NETWORKS to get their opinions.

          50. @HawaiianTater January 18, 2016

            50 years ago the top rate for taxes was 80-90%. He’s not taking half of the money from the 1% to pay for healthcare. That 50% represents a raise in what they are already paying, not an entirely new tax solely for health insurance. It’s only the income over a certain threshold that get’s taxed at that rate. The current rate is 39.6%, so it’s much lower than it was in the past. It was still over 70% until Reagan came along and started slashing it. When that happened is when our current income inequality problems started happening. They’re starting to reach unsustainable levels. The last time they were this high was 1929 and we all know what happened next. In a consumer based economy, when all the money goes to the top, the whole system crashes down on itself. Since the mega-billionaires won’t pay their employees what they deserve for earning the money for them, our only choice is to tax them higher. Otherwise they will take it all until the whole system becomes so top-heavy that it crashes. I’d rather not have to live through the Great Depression Part 2.

          51. mike January 18, 2016

            Yes, tax rates were higher but with generous deductions. At that time I could deduct my suits, etc..
            The devil is the detail and I will wait for the true picture. The highest pays 50% of there income at a certain level not what they are paying now. Next pays 37%. ects. on down. The middle class gets screwed more likely. How you on the left can think 3 million rich people can pay for the other 300 million is beyond me. The left’s mantra is tax the rich, tax the rich. It won’t work.
            All this is moot, Bernie can say anything he wants as can Hillary but until you have a candidate this is nothing more than a cirlcle jerk.

          52. @HawaiianTater January 18, 2016

            Yeah, there is no point in further debating health insurance. Really, the biggest factor for me in supporting Bernie is the fact that he is not owned by the billionaire class; he’s not a puppet of Wall Street. You might think his ideas are crazy but you at least have to admit that he is honest about who he is and doesn’t owe anything to rich donors. You can’t say that about Hillary. You know how you can tell Hillary is lying? She opens her mouth and words start coming out. There’s a reason why all the banks give her so much money. All her talk about being tough on Wall Street is a load of crap. If she was serious about it, they wouldn’t be giving her money. The size of the banks IS a problem and if left unchecked, they WILL crash the economy again. Is that something you can agree upon?

          53. mike January 18, 2016

            You are right about this going anywhere.
            I think Bernie believes what he says but in my opinion he is a little nuts with all his policies.
            Hillary is a liar which is nothing new. When Obama opens his mouth lies pour out. As to candidates on right, I have little confidence in any of them.
            Take care, continued happiness for you and yours.
            Till next time.

          54. mike January 18, 2016
          55. mike January 17, 2016

            Back from church and looking at your post.

            You said, “I’m not a libertarian. I said I agree with libertarians on keeping the government out of our personal lives; the two main things being government surveillance and telling us what we can and cannot do with our own bodies.”

            What the hell is ACA but taking control over your body and the choices in your life as to health. Obama is now telling you what and how to eat.
            The mindless sheep are the democratic lemmings.
            If Bernie’s momentum continues you will be much closer to Norway and lost liberties( healthcare choice, economic freedom). PS: in 2013 conservatives in Norway won a significant election, on what issues? A BAD FUNCTIONING HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND OUTDATED INFRASTRUCTURE? Sound familiar? You know like what Bernie wants.

          56. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            Be honest. There are mindless lemming across all spans of the political spectrum.

            What the hell are you even talking about with Obama telling me what to eat? I eat whatever I damned well please. And providing healthcare to everyone is not taking control of people’s bodies. That is absurd. Healthcare is healthcare. It’s providing healthcare in a more cost effective way. Are you against things being cost effective? Are you in favor of treating a bottom line as more important than the lives of citizens? Because that’s the old system.

            BTW, there is nothing saying we have to do things exactly like they do them in Norway or anywhere else. Learn from their example, take the good and leave the bad.

          57. mike January 17, 2016

            True, lemmings everywhere but I think the left takes the cake in politics.
            What choice did the kids have? Just more govt. intrusion.

            http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/eric-scheiner/michelle-obamas-7-ways-gov-t-could-control-how-you-eat

            https://occupycorporatism.com/michelle-obama-gov-will-control-what-your-children-can-eat/

            http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/students-full-revolt-michelle-obamas-horrible-school-lunch/

            Two former Agriculture Secretaries, Dan Glickman and Ann Veneman, recently demonstrated the government-control mindset when writing about the Obamacare menu labeling requirement[1]:

            But changing individual behavior is only possible when supported by an environment that helps make the healthy choice the easy choice.… When families go to restaurants, movie theaters, sports arenas and supermarkets, they should have the option to eat healthier food and the calorie information they need to make informed choices between various food options.[2]

            The primary justification made for government intervention is the public’s inadequate information regarding nutrition. In fact, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) claims that inadequate information is a market failure justifying Obamacare’s menu labeling rule.[3]

            Bernie likes the Sweden, Norway, Denmark form of healthcare and it isn’t working. Learn from their example, Really!!

          58. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            How in the blue hell do you make the leap from allowing people to make more informed decisions on what they eat to the government is controlling what you eat? That’s ridiculous.

            I never said the ACA is cost effective nor did I say I’m a fan of it. What the ACA is at it’s heart is a capitalist scheme to make the private insurance companies richer, so of course it’s not going to be cost effective. The insurance companies were all too happy to sign on for the ACA because it meant more money for them. Don’t confuse the ACA with what Bernie wants to do because it’s as different as night and day. The ACA enriched the insurance companies. Bernie’s plan would get rid of them altogether.

            Is the government always efficient? Of course they’re not but you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. I’d like to know what you suggest we do. Go back to the way things were when millions of people were uninsured and dying from easily treated diseases? Or people getting sick and going bankrupt because of it? How about people being denied healthcare because of preexisting conditions? That sound like a better plan to you?

          59. mike January 17, 2016

            Did school kids have a choice?? How about the millions wasted. Another example of “learn by the mistakes”.

            ACA was passed with no republicans and could have been written anyway the democrats wanted. They wanted a capitalist scheme. Duh!!!
            You have no idea what Bernie’s plan is, so get off that crap.
            “Enriched the insurance companies” baloney. Most if not all are losing Millions because 20 million did not enrollee and those that enrolled(10 million) paid nothing and others quit making the high payments, others stayed on their parents plaln, meaning they made no payments to the system. Now this is an example “learn from the mistakes.” The scheme was for the young and healthy to pay for the sick and aged. The young never went for it.
            But you are expecting them to be efficient this time which is silly.

          60. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016

            You are being obtuse by claiming I have no idea what Bernie’s plan is. Just because he hasn’t released the exact specifics doesn’t mean he hasn’t talked endlessly about what the plan would look like. I don’t know all the details but I do know the basic outline of it. And stop acting like I’m a Democrat. I’m not. I’m anti-Republican. Trust me, there’s a difference. I know all too well how corrupt our politicians are on BOTH sides.

            I’m not “expecting” anything. What I know is what we’ve been doing is not working, so we should try something else. You avoided the question. What is your idea on what we should do? Go back to the way things were where people go bankrupt from getting sick, others die from easily preventable diseases because they can’t afford healthcare and people denied healthcare due to preexisting conditions? All you’ve done is attack Bernie’s plan while offering up no ideas of your own.

          61. mike January 17, 2016

            He can talk all he wants but until he releases his plan for all to see words are cheap. Let’s see the numbers! Moment he says taxing the rich more I will be ROFLMAO.
            Unfortunately, I am afraid ACA is here to stay. I would change the redistribution taxes and all would contribute. Let states innovative Medicaid. Drop employer mandate. The mechanics are simply regulated private markets plus Medicaid expansion. Very tough-minded reform will be difficult but doable and end the fiction that the top 1 % can pay the medical bills of all Americans and everything else they are suppose to fund. Pre-existing keep.
            We don’thave the money now and won’t have it if later.
            I’m not running for president so my thoughts mean nothing.

          62. @HawaiianTater January 17, 2016
          63. mike January 17, 2016

            Thanks, now let’s see what is not said and the assumptions made to meet these numbers.
            Still cheap talk until all numbers revealed.

      2. charleo1 January 15, 2016

        And you’re all jizzed up over a guy who thinks he can brag, insult, and Nazi his way into office. Laugh it up while you can, nut job.

        1. mike January 15, 2016

          Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I am not a Trump fan but I do know that Hillary is in the fight of her life and all caused by her dishonesty and believing she is above the law.
          The nut job is all yours.

          1. charleo1 January 15, 2016

            Don’t you find it strange, or the least a bit interesting, you seem to know a lot more about my choices, and my candidates than your own? I sure do. I think it’s telling, and I don’t believe you’re all alone in this. I think you’ve been had. That’s right, Mr. Duck Dynasty, The Donald, and their press boys have spent way too much ammo, and way too much time convincing you, and the other Righties out there, how bad Obama is, the economy is, Obamacare is, the terror of ISIS, on and on, and on. Like one nonstop bombing run before the big battle. But now that that big battle is here, they got nothing. They can’t even mount a serious challenge to a t.v. reality star, and a Canadian born guy that really wants to get tough on immigrants. As I said, have a laugh on me while you can.

          2. mike January 15, 2016

            Now there you go again with your assumptions about what I know and don’t know about the candidates on the right. I’m doing my homework not like you on the left that has anticipated the coronation of Hillary these last 4 years without any thought or afterthought of her character. What has been exposed by the mainstream media is she is a liar and can’t be trusted.
            I don’t have a candidate at this time but what I do know as well as many BRIGHT democrats that Hillary is very vulnerable and they are concerned about her as their candidate.
            You really are an imbecile if you thing Obamacare isn’t in trouble financially. You are an imbecile if you don’t believe half the ACA exhanges haven’t gone out of business, premiums. deductibles, co-pay haven’t risen. You are an imbecile if you believe the 5% unemployment rate is an actual unemployment rate. Your are an imbecile if you don’t know wages drop in December 2015. You are imbecile if you think ISIS is contained and is not existential threat to US and the West.
            The party that has nothing is your party. The American peole see the stagnant wages, the are no better off now even though the recession has been over since 2009, they have heard the lies from Obama and Hillary, They don’t trust Obama or Hillary protecting them against terrorist attacks. Hillary can’t get near Obama administration without losing votes because people with brains know the country is going in the wrong direction. Obama foreign policies are viewed by 2/3 of Americans as failed.
            No, you are wrong again going into the general election.
            You crack me up with your stupid and sometimes ignorant statements. But keep it up I need the laugh.

          3. charleo1 January 16, 2016

            Well hmm. No candidate yet? Doing your homework? Tell me Patriot, are you one of those Righties who look for the tiny minuscule contrast between the Republican shill who wants to sell the country out from under right away? Or like Bush, and Reagan, screw workers one healthcare, retirement, and busted labor union at a time? Or perhaps you’re a T-Party tool? Who’d stupidly hand over the reigns of power tomorrow to a few corporate oligarchs, because they told you your gov. is evil, and wants your guns. Or just maybe you pick out the most belligerent sounding, non PC one with the biggest nastiest most hateful mouth, and go with that one? I’m guessing from your pejorative laced comments to me, and others here, the latter.

          4. mike January 16, 2016

            More diarrhea of the brain from the resident partisan of NM.
            As usual you are thinking and posting stupidly, nothing new from you. Your post just show how dim your light bulb is. Bright dems know the party has big concerns with Hillary and Bernie, one a confirmed liar and untrustworthy,9 the other an extreme socialist/communist. Where’s the diversity? Where are young leaders? What you’ve got are just two old white people.
            Keep trying numb nuts.

          5. charleo1 January 16, 2016

            All of that is of course your purely subjective opinion. Nice touch calling me a partisan. As you go on to come to your own unfounded, hyperbolic, and extremely partisan conclusions about candidates you would believe the worst of regardless of the facts. Face it, you’re adding nothing to further discuss.

          6. mike January 16, 2016

            You crack me up with your stupid posts. You have no rebuttal to my statements because my statements are true.
            Wake up! Hillary is a liar and untrustworthy, polls show it, mainstream media has reported her lies and you are still in denial. As to Bernie, he says he is a socialist. Show the world the diversity in your national candidates wanting the nomination of your party.
            You are so intellectually dishonest it is breathtaking.

          7. charleo1 January 16, 2016

            You don’t get it. There is no rebuttal to be made to you. In some poll you quote, but don’t site, or some media report you refer to, but fail to specify, you conclude Hillary Clinton is a liar, or is untrustworthy. To which I say, so what? There’s nothing to deny. You have your opinion, and that you’re welcome to. Doesn’t carry any credibility with me. Why should it? Why should Sanders being a Socialists disqualify him? I think he said he was a Democratic Socialists. But again, so what? Turns out the vast majority in this country really like their American Socialism. Their Medicare, Social Security, Workman’s Comp. unemployment insurance. Most of our allies are kind of like Burnie. You want diversity? Elect a Fascist as President, they hate Socialists worse than the hate race mixing.

          8. mike January 17, 2016

            You are still cracking me up. Stay in denial about old Hillary. As I have said before you are intellectually dishonest and this is just another example.
            Thanks for the laughs.

      3. Cloudherder January 16, 2016

        How old do you think Trump is? He is older than Hillary. You have that fanboy glow of delusion when you look at your candidates.

        1. mike January 16, 2016

          Nice try but no cigar!
          PS: Sanders is older than all candidates. Age of Hillary means nothing other than she has been around for decades and has been caught in many lies and is untrustworthy.
          Smart dems know she is becoming more a liability going into general election.

    2. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

      Yeah, they just keep repeating the same stuff. 95% of it is stuff rehashed from previous debates. There’s not any point in watching any more of them.

      1. jmprint January 15, 2016

        I had to turn it off after the second question, I found Rubio very nauseating.

  3. FireBaron January 15, 2016

    Sam, I was almost upset that there was not a “Top 5” from you this week. However, the way you effectively slashed all of them below the knees was priceless. I didn’t even miss you regular postings against Bryan Adams and company.

    Reply
    1. Sam Reisman January 15, 2016

      Slight delay this week. Tune in tomorrow.

  4. 1Zoe55 January 15, 2016

    If I were a sane Republican, I would be jumping off the tallest roof I could find. Looking at that collection of the strangest men (and the even battier woman), I couldn’t help thinking “Is this the best the Republican/TeaParty can come up with?” Why do Rubio and Cruz, two immigrants who have benefited from this still great (yes, that’s right) country, want to destroy or to weaken the very programs that helped them. As far as fat boy Christie, he couldn’t kick his own mama down the stairs, but just let him try that with our President and that fat man will find out what a real ass-kicking is. Bush melts into the woodwork, so let Jeb keep wasting all those donors’ money. And for Trump,oh Good Lord, this man needs to be placed in a strait jacket and put in a padded room where he can scream, curse and yell at everyone. Trump, the master blaster of bluster, is saying out loud what the rest of these fools are thinking but don’t the guts to say.

    Reply
    1. @HawaiianTater January 15, 2016

      You forgot Doc Stabby and John Kissassich.

    2. itsfun January 15, 2016

      You say that when the best the Democrats have is a old white man socialist and a old white woman liar.

      1. Cloudherder January 16, 2016

        Same age as Trump, fool.

        1. itsfun January 16, 2016

          Just where did I say one word about the age of Donald Trump? Are you making up more stories? Can you ever make a post without calling someone names or is just a weak mind trying to express its self.

  5. FT66 January 15, 2016

    Oh! boy, this guy Cruz is very arrogant. With him, he always works hard to insult others. He has insulted his fellow senators, he has insulted the Chief Justice, he has insulted the government by closing it down, to mention the few. Yesterday he insulted New Yorkers. Does he mean if he is elected (of which I know he won’t), will he be a leader of all people excluding New Yorkers?

    Reply
  6. indiokie January 15, 2016

    They attack what they fear most.

    Reply

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