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At Least 14 Dead, 17 More Wounded In Shooting In San Bernardino, California

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At Least 14 Dead, 17 More Wounded In Shooting In San Bernardino, California

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Rescue crews tend to the injured in the intersection outside the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California in this still image taken from video December 2, 2015. REUTERS/NBCLA.com/Handout via Reuters

Update below.

Fourteen people are dead and 17 more wounded after at least two shooters opened fire in a rampage that terrorized the Southern California city of San Bernardino Wednesday.

KTLA reported:

The San Bernardino Fire Department first tweeted around 11:15 a.m. that they were responding to a report of a “20-victim shooting.”

San Bernardino police confirmed via a tweet sent by the county’s Sheriff Department around 11:30 a.m. that there was an active shooter still in the area of Orange Show Road / Waterman Avenue near Park Center Circle.

The call first came in at 10:59 a.m. of multiple shots fired from the area of 1365 S. Waterman Ave., San Bernardino Police Department Lt. Richard Lawhead said. The department’s SWAT team was training nearby and was suited, “ready to roll” and responded rapidly, Lawhead said.

The San Bernardino Police Department said on Twitter that it had “confirmed 1 to 3 possible suspects” and multiple victims in the shooting, which remained an “active” situation for much of the afternoon.

At a press conference shortly after 1:50 p.m. PT, the San Bernardino Police Department said “up to three people” were suspected, “upwards of 14 people dead,” and “upwards of 14 people are injured.” The shooters were armed with long guns, and appeared to have been dressed and equipped in such a way as to suggest that they were “prepared,” they said. (The tally of injured was later raised to 17.)

The local courts and city and county buildings in the area had been closed, Sheriff John McMahon of San Bernadino County said at a mid-afternoon press briefing.

At the time, authorities were unwilling to describe the shooting as an act of terrorism outright. An FBI spokesperson said “we do not know if this is a terrorist incident.” The San Bernardino Police Department said it was not “terrorism in the traditional sense people might be thinking,” but conceded that it was most likely a form of “domestic terrorism.”

The location of the shooting was reported as the southern building of the Inland Regional Center, an education center for people with developmental disabilities near a golf course; although the building had been rented out at the time of the shooting.

 

 

This post has been updated. 

Update: Two suspects have been killed and a third detained. For more click here.

 

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313 Comments

  1. Kathryn Algren December 2, 2015

    Who needs ISIS. We have our own home grown white male terrorists. What the hell is wrong with us?!!

    Reply
    1. Larry Gagnon December 2, 2015

      Hi Kathryn: Too soon to conclude that terrorists were “white” or non-muslim.
      Anyhow, “us” is a collection of very different people. In almost 70 years, I have not seen so much hate expressed in public forums for other people based on religion, politics, race, etc. I am sure you have heard a lot of politicians who like to make sweeping statements about types of people in order to excite the voting public. Many of these sweeping statements are allegations that every member of the identified group is somehow evil or a danger.
      We certainly do have our own home grown terrorists: white & black & etc.
      Many politicians (mostly on the right at this time) are not helping. Today, Mr. Trump said we have to kill family members of ISIS if the family members are being used as shields. This easily generalizes to killing hostages and killing people who just happen to be near the intended victim of the killer. I suspect (guess, really) that the actors here were lashing out at all members of some group and anyone who happens to be near them. We really could use more people preaching peace and fewer preaching hate. There are no indications that hate speech is about to decrease. Stay safe; stay aware; its a jungle out there.

      Reply
    2. Ruby_Con December 2, 2015

      The irony of your own hatred obviously escapes you.

      Reply
      1. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

        If you read hatred in Kathryn’s response, it is only in your own mind.

        Reply
        1. Ruby_Con December 3, 2015

          Oh that’s right, I forgot, you’re a moral and intellectual supremacist. That’s how you know what is in one’s heart and mind, sorry.

          Reply
        2. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

          Hatred, racism, sexism – all present in her post. Had I blathered on about black female terrorists, for instance, you and your ilk would probably be calling ME racist & sexist, but since white males are fair game to racists bigots, well your own response pretty much makes that clear!

          Reply
          1. Cloudherder December 7, 2015

            But most serial killers ARE white males.

            Reply
    3. paulyz December 2, 2015

      More anti-White prejudice. There is a tremendous amount of crime by minorities, everyone knows this, but you worry about the small percentage of White crime. Add to the minority crime, many “home grown” terrorists came here from someplace else, or are involved in Muslim radicalism. Then of course, we have the high number of crime by ILLEGAL ALIEN TRESPASSERS that the Left want to ignore & give Amnesty to. They could also be considered home grown terrorists. Why don’t you address these serious problems?

      Reply
      1. Kathryn Algren December 2, 2015

        This is not a question of race, though the pattern with these mass killings most often seem to be white males. The question is what is wrong with our society that people feel they have to take out their anger or hate on innocent victims. Can you let go go your irrational fear of illegal immigrants and Muslims just for one day and see the pattern here? Please? Start by turning off talk radio and Fox News, and read in depth reporting in major newspapers and magazine articles. I just read a breaking report to by the BBC. No “The sky is falling” hysterics. Le Monde just reported this latest shooting in a reasoned but concerned adult manner. It might help you see things from a different perspective.learn something.

        Reply
        1. BillP December 2, 2015

          In a short answer paulyz can’t let go of his biased outlook.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Gee, I wonder why!!!!!!!!!!!! PC is dying……….

            Reply
          2. BillP December 3, 2015

            What’s the matter did I insult your little buddy? Your comment is so profound how could I ever reply? Your comments are repetitive and predictable.

            Reply
          3. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            ….and yours aren’t? PC is dying…..

            Reply
          4. BillP December 3, 2015

            Only when I reply to your mutterings.

            Reply
        2. paulyz December 5, 2015

          If this isn’t about race as you claim, then stop with all of your anti-White prejudices. Americans do not have “irrational fear” as you claim, but normal caution and diligence from the crime we see happening by Illegals, & now Muslim extremists. Unless stopped before it grows, it will get steadily worse. I get my information from many sources, not just leftist ones like you, & the reason FOX News became a huge success was precisely because of their policy of showing BOTH sides of the story, exactly the opposite of MSNBC, the daily kos, & other Socialist rags that have taken over your thinking.

          Reply
        3. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

          Except these killers were two people of Pakistani descent, one of them a woman and, some say, she was the mastermind, the driving force.

          Reply
      2. jmprint December 2, 2015

        Every situation needs to be looked at individually, we need to stop this, “I’m better then you attitude. When have you heard an illegal alien trespasser do a mass shooting, not that they are not capable, but why do you want to weave the US born citizen whose parents came here illegally into this mass shooting, which you and I have read that it was caused by 3 white men. This is a serious problem that’s what we are addressing.

        Reply
        1. paulyz December 5, 2015

          Yes this is a serious problem, a problem that will Never be solved by your racist reactions before the facts. The slaughter was NOT caused by (3 White men), but by 2 Muslims, one not a Citizen, & 1 an immigrant that slipped through the cracks, like many that do. Shows it’s near impossible to. Obama jokes about Republicans fearing women & children, but one of the Muslim murderers of Americans was a woman.

          Then there is the high number of serious crimes committed by Illegal Alien Trespassers! The question is; why do you Liberals, Obama, & the Democrat-Socialist Party choose to ignore these serious problems by blaming it on something else? Why it continues to worsen. Try becoming a part of American society instead of trashing it.

          Reply
      3. Daniel Jones December 2, 2015

        &*)^(_&*()*)(*_}+)(&^%(#%#($)*^&((_*()&(*%^#@&$

        Reply
        1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

          Why bother?

          Reply
        2. paulyz December 5, 2015

          Just can’t face the truth or facts, can you, without getting angry?

          Reply
      4. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

        Yes but according to the left all that crime and violence from minorities is the fault of white males! Or G.W. Bush, take your pick!

        http://moonbattery.com/?p=66048#comment-2394707731

        Reply
    4. David December 4, 2015

      These weren’t white terrorists. They were muslimes.

      Reply
  2. Carolyn1520 December 2, 2015

    The sale of guns will increase this week. Black Friday holds a new record for gun permit submissions. Merry Christmas for someone!
    And the right is praying todays shooters are immigrants.
    America, home of the scared and well armed.

    Reply
    1. David December 2, 2015

      And all the left is praying that the shooters are white Christians.

      Reply
      1. BillP December 2, 2015

        And the right will claim the shooters are anyone but white Christian. Blacks, Muslims, immigrants are preferable.

        Reply
        1. LStoll December 2, 2015

          More like “Blacks, Muslims, immigrants are LIKELY”

          Reply
          1. BillP December 3, 2015

            No the right wing trolls ant it to be that way so it’s their preference. Liking your own comment is really lame.

            Reply
        2. David December 2, 2015

          Because that is who it likely was.

          Reply
          1. BillP December 3, 2015

            Just like the PP shooting wasn’t a white male, was he? Also the shooter in the South Carolina church wasn’t he? It’s interesting that the first thing you and other trolls are concerned with is the race or ethnicity and gender of the shooter or shooters? No concern over those who were killed or wounded. This just shows what a low class person you are.

            Reply
          2. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Face it! Your master plan is not working out. Globalization is dead!

            Reply
          3. BillP December 3, 2015

            Not really it’s the Nazis of your parents who had a master plan, kind like the current neo-Nazi movement. Your pronouncements are so hyperbolic you should change your alias to chicken little, it would be more appropriate.

            Reply
          4. David December 3, 2015

            Gee!!! I am in shock!!! Don’t tell me that muslimes committed the slaughter in San Bernadino? But, Islam is the religion of peace, isn’t it?

            Reply
          5. BillP December 3, 2015

            So tough guy David you haven’t expressed any sympathy for those who died or were wounded in this shooting or their families. Gee what a surprise, your only interest is what was the religious background of the shooters. Adam Lanza was what oh a Christian and he shot 20 1st graders to death, Robert Dear was a Conservative Christian who killed 3 people at a PP facility and Timothy McVeigh was a Christian too and he killed 168 people, a number of them infants at a day care center. So lets blame all Christians for these horrible deaths. Lets smear all 2+ billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims while you are at it.
            David you are a sorry little pathetic excuse for a man. A terrible event occurs and all you can do is write negative comments. The only surprise is that you didn’t write LOL.

            Reply
          6. David December 3, 2015

            I truly love it when someone can insult others by way of the internet knowing that they won’t have to face the people that they disparage. Takes a lot of courage. Anyway, none of the murderers you cite were “Christians”. What denomination were they? What church were they members of? Christians don’t do what these animals did. And, non-muslimes don’t yell, “God is great” when they commit murder. Wake up. They have declared war on us.

            Reply
          7. BillP December 3, 2015

            Then you love how Joe Schmo and Tex have done it Tex in this stream. Well last week you just that kind of tough, remember you told me to grow a pair, I don’t remember you being in front of me when you stated that tough guy. Adam Lanza was a Catholic so was Timothy McVeigh. Robert Dear is an Evangelical Christian. How laughable that you claim Christians don’t do what these animals did. Check into some Christian or Catholic history, try the Inquisition, the Reformation & Counter Reformation, look into Northern Ireland Catholic vs Protestant killings of each other. Those are just a few of what Christians did. Check US history to see what Christian settlers did to the people already here.

            Reply
          8. David December 3, 2015

            No…the first thing YOU libtards want to do is hope the shooter is a white male. How does it feel to be part of the weasels that want to turn this nation into a third world country?

            Reply
          9. BillP December 3, 2015

            You are repeating yourself. “And all the left is praying that the shooters are white Christians” was your initial comment. I beginning to think you are really Joe Schmuck since you write the same chicken little rants. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

            Reply
          10. David December 3, 2015

            Well, at least you can read!

            Reply
          11. BillP December 3, 2015

            Gee there you go again, such wit is difficult to reply to. The more you the more you convince that you are just another low class piece of crap who has nothing positive to offer on anything.

            Reply
          12. David December 3, 2015

            What a clever argument! Oh, looks like your “workplace violence” was more of the muslime jihad. And you never answered my question. I guess comprehending the written word will be your next step. Good luck!

            Reply
          13. BillP December 4, 2015

            The investigators haven’t declared it anything yet but you must know more than them. Which question? Your last comment wasn’t a question, it was a statement.

            Reply
          14. David December 4, 2015

            Let’s see…the evidence shows that the terrorists 1) were of Pakistani descent and Pakistani; 2) Muslimes; 3) had “assault style weapons” 4) had placed an IED at the scene; 5) had over 1,000 rounds of .223 ammo in their SUV; 6) had over 4,000 rounds of 9mm and .223 at their home; 7) had about a dozen pipe bombs at their home; 8) had the materials to make more pipe bombs; and, 9) met with about a half dozen ‘Middle Eastern men’ shortly before the incident. Hmmm….Now, I am not the most intelligent man in the universe, but given that it takes quite a long time to load your SUV with the munitions and armaments, change clothing into ‘combat garb’, drop your 6 month old daughter with her grandparents, and return to a party to believe that this was only “workplace violence” is quite a stretch. Wake up! They are attacking us!
            For you benefit, I will repeat my question. How does it feel to be a part of the weasels that want to turn this nation into a third world country?

            Reply
          15. BillP December 5, 2015

            Let’s start with your statement “Now, I am not the most intelligent man in the universe” and go from there. I never said it wasn’t a terrorist attack, I said lets wait until the investigators declare it so. You seem to take a lot of joy in this, still haven’t seen you express any sympathy for the dead, wounded or their families.

            Here’s a quote of yours “I truly love it when someone can insult others by way of the internet knowing that they won’t have to face the people that they disparage” you may want to look in the mirror tough guy. You were the tough guy that started the insults. As for I will repeat to you and any other right troll that tells me to leave this country or that I want to turn it into a 3rd world country. I was born here, educated here, married & raised a family here, and work & pay taxes here, I support this country and am not leaving. Any time you want to come face to face with me to tell this I’m ready. When you talk about ruining this country you should read Joe Schmuck’s comments – he claims the US Dollar will be worthless unless a Republican is elected president. That’s a real patriotic wish isn’t it?

            Reply
          16. David December 5, 2015

            Still won’t answer the question? Typical libtard.

            Reply
          17. BillP December 7, 2015

            Your question “How does it feel to be a part of the weasels that want to turn this nation into a third world country?” This is really a statement not a question not the most intelligent man in the universe. This is just another typical tough guy statement by a right wing troll. First the country will never be a third world country, you are trying to compare this great country to the likes of North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen to name some. The US is worlds away from these countries. As for calling me a weasel it’s a free country (at least I believe it is, not so sure of you trolls) you tough guys can do that. It means nothing to me so keep saying it. After all you are repetitive.

            Reply
          18. David December 9, 2015

            Still won’t answer.

            Reply
          19. BillP December 9, 2015

            Yes I did but you can’t understand a logical answer.

            Reply
          20. David December 9, 2015

            Weasel is as weasel does. Enjoy living at the whim of your masters.

            Reply
          21. BillP December 10, 2015

            Oooooh you are such a master of words. You hurt me to the core with your rapier like wit! How could I ever reply to your searing comment?

            Reply
          22. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

            Likely? The majority of the mass shooters in this country are white “christians”.

            Reply
          23. David December 3, 2015

            Is that a fact? Or, is that something you pulled out of your a…? Please provide your authority for that statement.

            Reply
          24. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

            Look it up yourself if you want proof. I don’t bother to provide proof of facts to right wing idiots any longer. Facts aren’t what you seek. If they were, you’d not be showing your abject stupidity so often here.

            Reply
          25. David December 3, 2015

            Can’t provide any support for your “fact”? Hmm…Not at all surprised. How does it feel to be called out and proven to be an ignorant blowhard whose rants are baseless and without proof?

            Reply
          26. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

            Won’t is the operative word. Since you are innately dull, I’m pretty sure you ever having the ability to be surprised is an impossibility regardless of the circumstance.
            Your opinions are of little interest to me. Those less dull than you will look it up or already have. You obviously lack the ability to even look anything up. In the time you wasted attempting to insult me, you could have learned something for yourself. That’s what your party depends on.

            Reply
          27. David December 4, 2015

            You made the statement…back it up! You can’t and we both know it.

            Reply
          28. Carolyn1520 December 4, 2015

            I don’t caste pearls before swine either for the same reason.

            Reply
          29. David December 4, 2015

            You can’t spell either.

            Reply
          30. David December 5, 2015

            Well, at least you went back and edited your spelling error. How about your fellow Demorats booing Jesus?

            Reply
          31. Carolyn1520 December 5, 2015

            Spelling errors bother you but lies don’t? You’re a credit to your party.

            Yada yada yada

            Debunking the ‘Democrats Hate God’ Lie

            https://newrepublic.com/article/106966/debunking-democrats-hate-god-lie

            Reply
          32. David December 5, 2015

            Google dnc booing God and listen for yourself.

            Reply
          33. dtgraham December 5, 2015

            So are you still OK with red states denying the medicaid expansion and stripping people of health insurance, oh holy one? You never did clear that up.

            Reply
          34. David December 5, 2015

            You deflect from the topic. By the way, now United Healthcare is dropping out of Obamacare. I guess that’s Bush’s fault.

            Reply
          35. dtgraham December 5, 2015

            That’s ok. Sounds like they were ripping you off anyway.

            Reply
          36. Carolyn1520 December 5, 2015

            So what is your point?

            Reply
          37. David December 5, 2015

            The scum booed.

            Reply
          38. Carolyn1520 December 5, 2015

            You’ll believe what you choose and I don’t care but what they were booing is in question. Of course, booing God fits the right wing nut narrative and makes for good faux scandal material because how else would they hope to stand a chance if not attempting to make their opponents look worse than they are. Besides Obama still won and no one was hit by lightening,

            so God must have understood what was being booed. 🙂

            “The boos from the floor were aimed at Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who was running the convention at the time, and asked for three separate voice votes on the amendment that restored a mention of God. On the 3rd vote, Villaigosa ruled that the “Ayes” had won—by a two-thirds majority.

            That ruling from the chair was an obvious abuse of power. It was impossible to say, simply from the volume of voices, whether the “Ayes” outnumbered the “Nays.” To assert that the “Ayes” predominated by a 2-to-1 margin was simply absurd. Quite understandably, many delegates objected to the ruling. So their boos were aimed at Villaraigosa, not at God.”

            Besides, God doesn’t belong in politics.

            Reply
          39. David December 5, 2015

            Believe what you want. Maybe they were booing that their seats were uncomfortable?

            Reply
      2. jmprint December 2, 2015

        Not true, we are praying that the shooters get caught, no matter who they are. And praying for the victims families, and praying that no more hate killing happen.

        Reply
      3. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

        No, not so, because many Liberals are white Christians. Just not white faux fundamentalist christians aka American Taiiban, KKK, White Supremacist types .

        Reply
        1. David December 3, 2015

          Would those be the same “Liberal white Christians” who booed Jesus’ name at the Democratic National Convention?

          Reply
    2. dtgraham December 2, 2015

      Would make for an interesting change in the anthem: “O’er the land of the armed and the home of the scared.”

      Reply
  3. aladythespian December 2, 2015

    Damn
    it! Damn it! Damn it! I am so sick of this! This is completely
    unacceptable! I used to work for a private University and we had an
    extension site off of Waterman and Orange Show Road. We need gun
    reform! The Second Amendment is worth swimming in blood and burying
    citizens every single day of the year. This is just dumb. Those who
    refuse to even consider gun reform, think on this, you keep blocking any
    attempts to make it harder for the wrong person to get their hands on
    guns, you may end up having the very thing you were afraid of
    happening. Either meet us all half way or get out of the way!

    Reply
  4. aladythespian December 2, 2015

    Damn
    it! Damn it! Damn it! I am so sick of this! This is completely
    unacceptable! I used to work for a private University and we had an
    extension site off of Waterman and Orange Show Road. We need gun
    reform! The Second Amendment isn’t worth swimming in blood and burying
    citizens every single day of the year. This is just dumb. Those who
    refuse to even consider gun reform, think on this, you keep blocking any
    attempts to make it harder for the wrong person to get their hands on
    guns, you may end up having the very thing you were afraid of
    happening. Either meet us all half way or get out of the way!

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

      Gun reform like what happened in Paris! Those people were sitting ducks. Gun reform like in Germany? Everyone is buying pepper spray when the gunmen have AK-47’s. Gun reform like they had in Australia? So many died. No idiot. Trump is right. Time to round them up and send them packing. Time to put surveillance cameras on Mosques. FU we have a 2nd Amendment. There may be a time when a Muslim ‘TERRORIST’ comes into an establishment to shoot people and that one person has a gun to fight back. That is my hope!

      Reply
      1. aladythespian December 3, 2015

        Wow, I mean REALLY,
        wow! You didn’t just drink the haterade, you jumped in, took a swim
        and then brushed your teeth with it. People who have served in the
        military have said that THEY couldn’t move fast enough to protect
        themselves in a situation where EVERYONE has a gun you crazy Trump
        chump! No, you’re only hope is that your meds kick in. Don’t
        bother trying a snappy retort, you’ll only come off sounding like the
        moron that you are and I am not wasting my time trying to talk sense
        to someone who has obviously lost his…so long Rambo!

        Reply
        1. BillP December 3, 2015

          This is typical of Schmuck’s comments on mass shootings, no concern for the dead or wounded just a nonsensical rant about Democrats or Liberals or whomever these trolls don’t agree with.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Pleeeeaaaasssseee, I dare you to go on a conservative site with your rhetoric. You will be chased out of there so fast.

            I actually predicted this. I told my spouse, after the Paris attacks, if we have a terrorist attack on American soil, Hillary will be OUT!

            Well, you would be a troll on a Conservative site. I don’t see you people lasting long on our sites. Not long at all. The wimps that you are just can’t handle it

            Reply
        2. David December 4, 2015

          I served in the military. You are wrong! I would rather have the chance to defend myself and my family than die begging on my knees. Molon labe

          Reply
  5. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

    Was this a Cartel hit?

    Reply
    1. jmprint December 2, 2015

      Otto they were white, you tell us, if you really think it was a cartel hit.

      Reply
        1. jmprint December 2, 2015

          So why did you not post the photos of your mass shooting buddies they seem to have the same color of skin and mentality that you do. You are part of the “republican terrorist regime”.

          Reply
          1. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            You should ask them to adjust your medication.

            Reply
          2. jmprint December 2, 2015

            Otto, this is always your dead end response. No wonder you like trump, two peas in a pod.

            Reply
          3. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            Only because you refuse to get your medication adjusted.

            Reply
          4. jmprint December 2, 2015

            Lucky for me I have all my senses, am very healthy, have a high IQ and am not tormented by hate. And I understand mental health. You are just a follower, a republican, defending the regime.

            Reply
          5. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

            I need to get my medication adjusted just dealing with these white supremists.

            Reply
          6. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Your education is showing. You spelled ‘supremacist’ wrong. Your education is showing:) You are dealing with a person who has a master’s degree. Liberals think they are so smart….Not! Biggest fools on this earth. No wonder America is falling apart. All in Obama’s deranged plan.

            If DT gets into the WH, it will be payback time! Then the violent will come out in the liberals. There is not a peaceful thing about you unAmerican’s

            Reply
          7. BillP December 3, 2015

            Once again you show your insecurity, ooh I have a Masters degree, I’m smart. You keep having to proclaim your intelligence, isn’t daddy giving you enough attention little boy? As for cloudherder’s misspelling a word, I had to correct your spelling and grammar numerous times little Master’s boy. Actually you used the wrong word in your comment. “Then the violent will come out in the liberals.” The correct word is violence, Master’s boy.
            You love to talk so tough on this site hiding behind your little boy alias. As for Liberals being un-American you certainly don’t know what you are talking about. This is “OUR” country you don’t own and you can go back to wherever your parent came from. You are such a low class person.

            Reply
      1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

        LOL, Sayed Farook is Muslim you idiot!

        Reply
        1. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

          So what? Last week the shooter was Christian. Why don’t you wait and see what their motive was?

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Paris has no guns….Sitting ducks. Australia mass shooters….against unarmed civilians. Germans have bought up all the pepper spray they can but how good is that against an AK-47. YOU WILL NOT WIN THIS ONE… Until something happens to you or your family you will just pretend that the world is one big happy flower field. What a moron! Cloudherder! Yah, your head is in the clouds alright.

            Reply
      2. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

        No, they weren’t white jmprint. They weren’t Middle eastern either however. They were Americans.

        Reply
        1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

          Terrorists!

          Reply
  6. jmprint December 2, 2015

    The republican ideology is getting to everyone, they promote hate and what we are seeing is the by product of their rhetoric. I have said it over and over KKK. white supremacist and false religion should not be in the same mix. That is what the republican party is made of, we need to be more vocal against them.

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

      Oh my fellow Conservatives, the liberals are losing it! Literally! Name of suspect Syed Farook. You people’s political agenda is in deep doodoo…..

      Reply
      1. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

        Yeah, Syed Farouk, born and raised in Chicago Illinois. We don’t know his and his wife’s motives yet. I think I would wait to see what on earth they are. I am hoping and praying that these two Americans were not recruited by ISIS, but we don’t know that yet. You slinging around your racist crap does not help.

        Reply
        1. BillP December 3, 2015

          Not Schmuck, you do know he has a Master’s Degree in insensitivity and ignorance. He cant wait to write a rant about Liberals or Democrats. He is so predictable that he is actually very boring.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Then don’t answer my posts if I’m that boring and unintellectual. Problem is you can’t help yourself because you know damn well that I’m not a dummy. How am I predictable. Why don’t you tell me about myself. I guess you are in my shoes?

            Reply
          2. BillP December 4, 2015

            I wasn’t answering your post Master’s boy, I was replying to cloudherdr’s post. Well you do write like a dummy, wait that’s a overwrought dummy. You fail to grasp the fact that no one cares about your personal chicken little!

            Reply
        2. joe schmo December 4, 2015

          Of course it does. Obama just stated that this would not happen on American soil. LOL OOOOOOKKKKKKKKK

          Reply
  7. David December 2, 2015

    “Domestic terrorism”? What happened to “workplace violence”?

    Reply
    1. jmprint December 2, 2015

      Workplace violence generally consist of one person doing the shooting, This was a planned hit on a race or group of people.

      Reply
      1. David December 2, 2015

        Tell that to the families of the people killed by that Muslime Army doctor at Ft. Hood.

        Reply
    2. Daniel Jones December 2, 2015

      Workplace Violence–going “Postal”, as it first got notorious with postal workers–is in-house violence when an employee snaps.

      So far there’s no stated evidence the guys worked at the facility.

      Reply
  8. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

    Sources are saying one of the suspects is named Farooq Saeed.

    Reply
    1. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

      It’s never too soon to use a tragedy to further your political agenda, you grotesque failure.

      Reply
      1. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

        Sources are saying Faroogq Saeed frequently pleasures your anus.

        Reply
        1. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

          OK thanks for demonstrating that your complete dearth of dignity on top of the other faculties you are manifestly lacking.

          Reply
        2. jamesowens December 2, 2015

          you seem to be a fan of faroq you sure you are not his butt buddy

          Reply
          1. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            Homophobic.

            Reply
          2. jamesowens December 2, 2015

            sound more like a repressed closet queen

            Reply
          3. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            Projection.

            Reply
          4. jamesowens December 2, 2015

            well you know the word look at yourrants then look in the mirror

            Reply
          5. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            Incoherent.

            Reply
          6. jamesowens December 2, 2015

            what I would expect from you- to ignorant to believe you might be wrong to stupid to believe facts that hit you in the face. denial and ignorance the sole savior of the conervative

            Reply
          7. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

            Great comment.

            Reply
      2. joe schmo December 2, 2015

        Keep it up, moron. You people are so off your rockers. You’re just angry because you know we are right and people are losing faith in liberals.

        Reply
        1. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

          Keep what up? Not being racist? Not jumping to conclusions? Not trying to exploit the deaths of fellow citizens for political gain? You’ll have to narrow down which repulsive trait of yours you think is helpful!

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Keep up the stupid rhetoric? Obama calls American’s terrorists and Muslims not. Obamacare is not working. Obama invites the Muslims in. He’s playing a very dangerous game because we don’t know who is and who is not a terrorist. Our economy is in the tank. 1/4 Americans out of work. Americans cannot get jobs because all the migrants and ILLEGALS have the jobs. Global warming is more dangerous than terrorism. He even went so far as to state we should invite these people to stay in our homes. Hey, why don’t you let a Muslim family live in your home. LOL Our deficit will be 21 million by the time the Emperor leaves office.

            By the way, we are not racist. We have a much more diverse lineup of presidential candidates than the liberals do. Yawn. PC has gotten out of control and many, many Americans feel the same way. You people have no longer have scruples or principles. Wrong is right and right is wrong. You are losing. You are going to lose…….

            You last statement makes no sense at all. We have a 2nd Amendment. YOU WILL NOT GET RID OF IT! Paris, Germany, Australia…..all defenseless against an AK-47

            Reply
          2. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            I’m sure you meant to answer, but instead you seemed to have copy-pasted several paragraphs of wingnut talking points based on severe delusions and slack-jawed racism.

            Reply
          3. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Nope, those were my own words. After all, a Master’s does come in handy from time to time.

            Reply
          4. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            OK, so to sum up your position: racism is great, guns are great (even though terrorists keep getting them, and not one non-LEO/non-military person has ever stopped a mass shooting with one), some outright lies about the President, faux outrage about various incoherent and unclear things, and some sort of persecution complex because you think you’re a victim despite being a member of the most privileged groups of humans in the richest nation to ever exist in all of human history. Did I miss anything?

            Reply
          5. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Never said that did I. I said I want my country to be protected from potential threats by terrorists who do not want to assimilate. Never mentioned a race because Muslims can be any race.

            Nope, the truth about the President. I think it’s time you get out of the liberal collective media and look around a bit more. Richest nation spiraling downward under lax laws and anarchy turning into 3rd world. Keep walking around with your eyes wired shut. Until something happens to you, LaLaland is not a place I would want to be. You must be part of the 1% liberals. They really do walk around with rose colored glasses.

            Reply
          6. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            OK so I got it right. Still can’t imagine for a single second why the chain of allegations (name, religion and motive of one of the attackers) you have constructed somehow makes gun control LESS urgent, but I guess critical thinking skills aren’t really your strong point.

            Reply
          7. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Let me guess a common core fan?

            Critical thinking and rational thinking are two different sides of a coin. Critical thinking cannot be attributed to rational when deducing the difference between being stupid and being cautious. Rational is an ability to be intuitive with regards to the human condition. Critical thinking alludes to a scientific stance and has nothing to do with common sense. Rational thinking makes sense. Critical thought does not always make sense. Protecting my family from harm, having common sense, having the forethought to think they may be in danger relate to Rational.Assuming that the world is full of righteous and good people, being naive about the fact that your family can’t get hurt, and opening the doors of America to everyone is plain flat out stupid.

            The global order is folding. Sir you are far far from being a patriot. A patriot loves his country doesn’t want to destroy it.

            It’s like the neighbor of these Muslims. The home owner heard people in the house next door but did not want to alert the police because they did not want to discriminate. Now 14 people are dead and 14 people are injured. That’s not rational thinking.

            Reply
          8. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            Your leap from topic to topic based on pure – and utterly unhinged – speculation is remarkable. You are a peculiar specimen, and no mistake.

            Reply
          9. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Specimen? You make me sound like a science experiment. What happened to your humanitarian ideology. Oh that’s right critical thought. Kind of an oxymoron isn’t it? I suppose your science experiment excludes Christian American’s? I think we need to get rid of you unpatriotic types and send you packing back to the ME with all the Muslims…

            …and you people are against guns? Why does the president want us to disarm when we’re under attack… ?

            Reply
          10. BillP December 3, 2015

            Schmuck’s hyperbole reminds me of the chicken little fable. Schmuck keeps writing about this country spiraling down into a 3rd world country, if you disagree with him you are unpatriotic, etc. I really believe he should change his alias to chicken little since he is always claiming negative things about this country or the rest of the world. An example of his Master’s Degree intelligence occurred last year when in his chicken little persona he claimed the US Dollar was tanking. He believes that if it takes “LESS” US dollars to equal a Euro, GB Pound or Yen that the value of the dollar is “lessening”. He lives in his own little bizarro world where good is bad, up is down, etc.

            Reply
          11. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            LOL,Are you really that daft?

            http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/10/29/us-on-road-to-third-world-paul-craig-roberts/

            The dollar. LOL, if Hillary gets into office the bubble is going to implode. Even Donald Trump says it is being held in a bubble. You are not too bright if you think that it can’t become worthless. By the way, S&P has been chaotic this past year… So I was right.

            Reply
          12. BillP December 4, 2015

            You can LOL all you want. In the past you have claimed that the US Dollar was tanking while actually it was doing better than most other currencies. You also claimed at 1 point that investing in silver or gold was better than the stock market, again you showed your ignorance. The S&P 500 is up 0.51% YTD & up 146% since 1/2009, Nasdaq up 7.4% YTD & up 238% since 1/2009, DJIA down 0.72% YTD but up 115%. All 3 indices are up today. Gold is oops 1.17% YTD, up an astounding 39% since 1/2009, silver is up 1% YTD & up another astounding 47% since 1/2009. When you write “The dollar. LOL” is just prove your infantile nature. I’m brighter than you and your wealthy daddy, my investments are up YTD and big time since 1/2009. As for the US Dollar being worthless, just another example of your un-American rants and bullshit. You are just a delusional little boy who can’t process information correctly. Looking at just 1 year doesn’t tell the real story, S&P is up YTD and is up today. Gold & Silver not!

            Reply
          13. BillP December 3, 2015

            This is at least the 2nd time in this stream that Schmuck mentions his Master’s Degree. His daddy isn’t giving him enough attention so he writes on this site to get some needed attention.

            Reply
          14. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Bill, I come from a wealthy family. Get over it.

            Reply
          15. BillP December 4, 2015

            Oooh see chicken little comes from a wealthy family. Maybe you do but you are still a negative little boy who claims the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Oh let me show you my Master’s Degree.

            Reply
          16. kep December 3, 2015

            Why can you liberal commies not realize that gun control does NOTHING to prevent crime? It is people control, nothing else. Only law abiding citizens follow the laws. Criminals do not. So all gun control laws do is to give criminals easier targets to prey on

            Reply
          17. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            Except that you’re completely wrong. No other developed nation on Earth has these problems at anything remotely approaching this scale. Guns are to blame, and the only workable solution is a total ban.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          18. kep December 3, 2015

            I guess it is hard to see reality when you have your head so far up the Emperor says butt

            Reply
          19. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            OK, thanks for admitting you don’t have the slightest bit of data that counters what I said, and have to resort to feeble personal attacks. It’s always deeply satisfying to see how pathetically inept the far right bigots like you are!

            Reply
          20. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            MORE PROOF WHAT A DELUDED LIAR YOU ARE:

            I am not going to say you actually said this in these words, because even if you did you will likely deny it.

            However, despite your attempts to allege it does, the U.S. DOES NOT lead the world in firearms related deaths.

            HERE ARE SOME FACTS, SOME INCONVENIENT TRUTHS, YOU FAIL TO MENTION:

            Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000.

            “Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011,” according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, “and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.

            There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths per 100,000 in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

            “Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew,” according to the Pew study. “The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993.”

            So note that in 2010 the rate in the U.S. was 3.6 per 100,000!

            America, despite Obama and other Democrats (and people like Mr. Corrections) saying so, the U.S. does NOT have the worst gun problem in any developed (i.e G-20 member) nation: That dubious distinction goes to BRAZIL, followed by MEXICO and next is SOUTH AFRICA.

            (The above based on data from the University of Sydney.)

            COUNTRIES WITH MUCH STRICTER GUN LAWS HAVE MUCH WORSE GUN PROBLEMS THAN WE DO.

            According to the Organization of American States and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, these are the most violent nations on the planet outside of a war zone:

            At #11 in the world, South Africa has a significant gun problem – though many of the deaths there are also carried out in more gruesome fashion – a favorite is to bind one’s hands and feet so they’re helpless, then place a vehicle tire around the neck with gasoline or some other volatile liquid and finally light the person on fire and watch them suffer and burn. I’d rather take a bullet, personally.

            RATE: 9.41 per 100,000

            At #10, the Phillipines despite strict gun laws.

            RATE: 9.46 per 100,000

            #9, Mexico, which has much stricter gun laws than we do.

            RATE: 11.4 per 100,000

            #8, Panama’s firearm deaths are legend.

            RATE: 12.92 per 100,000

            #7, like Mexico, Brazil has very strict gun laws and has even engaged in a program of aggressively taking guns from the populace. The result?

            RATE: 19.01 per 100,000

            #6, Colunbia, isn’t doing so well either:

            RATE: 28.11 per 100,000

            #5, Swaziland is the most dangerous place in Africa for gun related deaths with a firearm death rate of:

            RATE: 37.16 per 100,000

            #4, Guatemala is no paradise either.

            RATE: 38.52 per 100,000

            #3, Honduras is even worse – and mind you these are the places Obama is actively recruiting people he’s bringing here to ‘fundamentally change’ America with.

            RATE: 46.7 per 100,000

            #2, Jamaica is not quite the worst place in the world for gun violence, but as #2 they try harder!

            RATE: 47.5 per 100,000

            And the worst place in the world for gun violence is NOT the U.S., it’s actually El Salvador

            RATE: 50.36 per 100,000

            Yes, Mr. Corrections is SO CONCERNED about gun violence in America (and may actually not even be a resident or citizen here – he’s been sort of dodging that issue) and yet he ignores the fact that there are so many places where gun violence is more than an order of magnitude worse. Many of which have much more severe gun laws – and all that does is ensures when there’s a showdown between the criminals and law-abiding people inevitably occur, the crimnals have guns, the good citizens don’t.

            Reply
          21. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            I must have missed the bit where you mentioned some sort of lie I’d told.

            Reply
          22. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Yeah, narcissists do tend to have an inability to comprehend constructive criticism or any other attempt to help them see how flawed they actually are!

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          23. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Of course you will deny now that you said there were ‘daily mass shootings’, which will be another lie when you deny it, so go ahead… but when you claimed there were ‘daily mass shootings’ I challenged you to list the ‘daily mass shootings’ that occurred over the last 90 days and that challenge still stands. Failure by you to post a list of the ‘daily mass shootings’ over the last 90 days will prove you are a liar.

            Reply
          24. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Sorry you can’t find a lie I told. Weird!

            Reply
          25. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Really…Paris, Germany, England, Australia, Canada. Paris has had two attacks. Germany is being led around by the nose by migrants. Pepper spray is sold out. Like that’s really going to save you from an AK-47. Military leaders in England are so close to a Coup. You are so wrong. You have NO clue what is going on overseas. They have no guns. They are sitting ducks. What the hell are you talking about! I think I would rather live in a country that has weapons because there is always the chance that we can protect ourselves.

            Reply
          26. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            OK sorry you think that you can somehow conflate extremely rare) terrorism attacks with the daily mass shootings and extraordinarily high murder rate caused by widespread firearm ownership and complete lack of sane gun controls, which is – you know – what we’re talking about here.

            You can’t, though.

            Reply
          27. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Extremely rare terrorism attacks? Just because Obama’s plan to import terrorists is meeting heavy opposition and so has not come to fruition is no excuse for you claiming that terrorism isn’t a daily concern – why you yourself ADMIT that, with your pathetic claims that we are against helping the widows and orphans it is creating in Iraq and Syria and other Muslim dominated lands – claims which are patently false when you say we don’t care and don’t want to help them! You must not be paying attention, as usual!

            And, like Hussam Ayloush, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Los Angeles Chapter, I bet you are just dying to claim that America bears some, much or all of the blame for the attacks in San Bernardino, if you haven’t already said so. You’ll probably blame it on lax gun control efforts despite the fact it happened in a state with some of the strictest and most unconstitutional gun control laws in the nation.

            Reply
          28. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            OK sorry you think that you have a point; it’s very strange.

            Reply
          29. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            OK, sorry you think failing to actually address and refute my points somehow is a win for you, but by all means, KEEP IT UP!

            Reply
          30. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            More of your lies:

            daily mass shootings and extraordinarily high murder rate

            In other responses to you I’ve given you the names of 11 countries that have higher gun death rates than the U.S.

            But go ahead… give us a list of the “daily mass shootings” that occurred in the last 90 days in the U.S. We’re all ears.

            And I’ve pointed out how many other countries, all with gun laws you LWNJs dream about, have gun death rates that are more than an order of magnitude greater than we do here. It’s clear, there’s compelling, in fact IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE that gun laws tend to make the gun problem WORSE not BETTER. This most recent case is a PERFECT EXAMPLE because RADICAL MUSLIM TERRORISTS were able to purchase not only guns, but everything they needed to make multiple explosive devices. Had they not had guns it is indeed likely the death toll would have been MUCH HIGHER in fact.

            Despite being in a state that has some of the most restrictive, ridiculous and unconstitutional gun laws (protected by what may be the most overturned federal courts in history) these two managed to obtain and unfortunately use multiple firearms.

            And the saddest thing is PEOPLE LIKE YOU, MR. CORRECTIONS, were the direct cause of this, for a neighbor of the MUSLIM EXTREMIST TERRORISTS did in fact realize that they were probably up to something, but the constant drumbeat BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU made her fear that she would be targeted BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU as a racist/bigoted white person if she came forward and reported her concerns, so she did not. THANKS TO YOU AND YOUR WORDS AND DEEDS this thing in Santa Barbara happened – YOU and people like you are more at fault than any gun for this.

            Reply
          31. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            In other responses to you I’ve given you the names of 11 countries that have higher gun death rates than the U.S.

            No you haven’t.

            Reply
          32. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Yes, in fact I have. Here they are again, LIAR:

            HERE ARE SOME FACTS, SOME INCONVENIENT TRUTHS, YOU FAIL TO MENTION:

            Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000.

            “Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011,” according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, “and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.

            There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths per 100,000 in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

            “Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew,” according to the Pew study. “The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993.”

            So note that in 2010 the rate in the U.S. was 3.6 per 100,000!

            America, despite Obama and other Democrats (and people like Mr. Corrections) saying so, the U.S. does NOT have the worst gun problem in any developed (i.e G-20 member) nation: That dubious distinction goes to BRAZIL, followed by MEXICO and next is SOUTH AFRICA.

            (The above PARAGRAPH based on data from the University of Sydney.)

            COUNTRIES WITH MUCH STRICTER GUN LAWS HAVE MUCH WORSE GUN PROBLEMS THAN WE DO.

            According to the Organization of American States and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, these are the most violent nations on the planet outside of a war zone:

            At #11 in the world, South Africa has a significant gun problem – though many of the deaths there are also carried out in more gruesome fashion – a favorite is to bind one’s hands and feet so they’re helpless, then place a vehicle tire around the neck with gasoline or some other volatile liquid and finally light the person on fire and watch them suffer and burn. I’d rather take a bullet, personally.

            RATE: 9.41 per 100,000

            At #10, the Phillipines despite strict gun laws.

            RATE: 9.46 per 100,000

            #9, Mexico, which has much stricter gun laws than we do.

            RATE: 11.4 per 100,000

            #8, Panama’s firearm deaths are legend.

            RATE: 12.92 per 100,000

            #7, like Mexico, Brazil has very strict gun laws and has even engaged in a program of aggressively taking guns from the populace. The result?

            RATE: 19.01 per 100,000

            #6, Colunbia, isn’t doing so well either:

            RATE: 28.11 per 100,000

            #5, Swaziland is the most dangerous place in Africa for gun related deaths with a firearm death rate of:

            RATE: 37.16 per 100,000

            #4, Guatemala is no paradise either.

            RATE: 38.52 per 100,000

            #3, Honduras is even worse – and mind you these are the places Obama is actively recruiting people he’s bringing here to ‘fundamentally change’ America with.

            RATE: 46.7 per 100,000

            #2, Jamaica is not quite the worst place in the world for gun violence, but as #2 they try harder!

            RATE: 47.5 per 100,000

            And the worst place in the world for gun violence is NOT the U.S., it’s actually El Salvador

            RATE: 50.36 per 100,000

            Yes, Mr. Corrections is SO CONCERNED about gun violence in America (and may actually not even be a resident or citizen here – he’s been sort of dodging that issue) and yet he ignores the fact that there are so many places where gun violence is more than an order of magnitude worse. Many of which have much more severe gun laws – and all that does is ensures when there’s a showdown between the criminals and law-abiding people inevitably occur, the crimnals have guns, the good citizens don’t.

            Reply
          33. dtgraham December 5, 2015

            So, taking your word for it, the U.S. is only 4th worst among the G20 for gun shootings per capita, beating out wealthy peaceful Shangri Las like South Africa, Mexico, and Brazil. Congratulations.

            Poverty is a major driver for gun violence and is the reason that a comparison to third world hell holes racked by violence and civil war is not a good one. Compared to it’s first world peers, the U.S. does very poorly on gun violence.

            Reply
          34. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            PS: I’d love for you to expand on this crazy list, especially the part about the coup in Britain (“England” is only one part of that country), and perhaps explaining on what you meant to do by bringing Australia – no terrorism incidents despite being adjacent to the world’s largest Muslim nation, and no mass shootings since most guns were banned – other than demonstrate the absolute correctness of my arguments.

            Reply
          35. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            You’ve tended, I thought, and correct me if I’m wrong, to represent yourself as an American, someone from American and/or someone who lives in America. It seems that some or all of that is not true. Just out of curiosity, what is your original nationality, your current citizenship and your current nation of residence. As you’ve proven yourself to be a liar, I’m not sure asking is really going to do any good, but I’d like to see if you’ll bother to answer and what you will say if you do.

            Reply
          36. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            YES HERE ARE ALL MY PERSONAL DETAILS, CRAZY STALKER WHO HAS ALREADY FOLLOWED ME TO FOUR DIFFERENT SITES

            Reply
          37. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Stalker? LOL! You give yourself far too much credit! Who would bother stalking you? Exposing you as the liar you are has been a nice time waster, but stalking? LOL! Nobody would ever do that to a loser like you.

            Reply
          38. kep December 4, 2015

            You mean like England? The police finally caught on after decades of carrying a Billy club . They now carry sidearms. Of course, the citizens there still can not defend themselves from criminals and radicals armed with knives and machetes. Remember the guy getting his head cut off while everyone stood by defenseless?

            Reply
          39. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Sorry, that isn’t actually – you know – true. Police in the UK do not generally carry firearms.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom

            Do you have any other urban myths that you want to substitute for facts?

            Reply
          40. kep December 4, 2015

            Police started carrying back in the 70s when I lived there. Do you believe everything that’s fed to you?

            Reply
          41. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Ah, OK, it’s time to argue with reality itself.

            Reply
          42. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            People think that the British Police are not armed. Well its a misconception, yet another of Mr. Correction’s proven lies.

            Every Police Force in the UK and Channel Islands has a Firearms unit. These units consist of men and women who are qualified Police Officers first and foremost, having completed a minimum of two years ‘on the beat’. They will then complete the necessary courses to become Authorised Firearms Officers.

            Due to events in British history including the tragedies at Hungerford and Dunblane and more recently Whitehaven, the U.K. recognizes need to have officers with firearms to protect it’s citizens even though it’s true that it’s a popular myth the police there are completely unarmed, as Mr. Corrections’ lie illustrates.

            There are a number of armed police forces in the U.K.: The Ministry Of Defence Police (a civilian force, not military), UK Civil Nuclear Police, Police Service Of Northern Ireland, all armed. The Anti Terrorist, Flying Squad, Special Branch, Diplomatic Protection, Royal Protection squad are all armed. All County Police forces have round the clock Armed Response Units & also have specialist SWAT -like teams. (e.g CO19 in London Met police).

            Reply
          43. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            British police do not walk around armed. How is that a lie? I never said they didn’t have access to arms when needed. Oh wait, you are trying to pretend there is a serious gun crime issue in a country where they sensibly banned them, and have to resort to making up evidence – I get it.

            Sorry, gun control has undeniably been incredibly effective in every developed nation where it is in place. There’s no drawback to banning guns.

            Reply
          44. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Again you’re caught in a lie. ARGUABLY SOME OF THE WORST GUN VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD is in a country WITH ARGUABLY SOME OF THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS IN THE WORLD, the Philippines.

            You people just don’t get it – ever! When the Planned Parenthood incident happened you blamed the right wing for bringing out the fact they were encouraging women to murder their children so they could use them as fodder for their baby chop shop and sell the various parts. Your response was that the guy would not have done it had the Planned Parenthood Baby Chop Shop not been REVEALED, totally missing the point that the problem wasn’t that it was revealed, it was that Planned Parenthood was doing it in the first place!

            The left’s initial response to the latest incident was to tweet “Oh boy, another NRA 2nd Amendment Celebration in San Bernardino” and then to go into full denial mode when it became obvious that Obama’s efforts to import terror as a vital part of his ‘fundamentalist transformation’ of America was already bearing poison fruit.

            What is it with you LWNJs? Why do we have to have successful terror attacks before you will admit there’s a problem – but then it’s too late? We’ve been warning about this – and indeed there is now an admission from the Obama administration they’ve been monitoring chatter for as long as SIX MONTHS about this (or maybe an even more detailed attack) that was going to happen in Southern California. Of course, were it not for PEOPLE EXACTLY LIKE YOU, this would have been stopped! A neighbor reports that she KNEW something was going on but PEOPLE LIKE YOU would call her a racist/bigot or claim she was instituting a religious test or some other nonsense so she was afraid to come forward and report that she had seen these very TERRORISTS doing. PEOPLE LIKE YOU who lie and harass those of us who are merely saying we need to be careful before we help the terrorists attack us, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE DEMOCRATS AND OBAMA ARE DOING.

            Reply
          45. David December 5, 2015

            Right!!! Inanimate objects are so evil!!!

            Reply
          46. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Pathetic. By that incredibly feeble argument – and I use the word advisedly – we should let everyone have nuclear weapons.

            Reply
          47. David December 5, 2015

            “Feeble”? Is that why you can’t refute it?

            Reply
          48. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Refute WHAT? Rather than try to argue against my objectively true claims, you’ve literally just claimed that there’s no upper limit to the scope of weaponry people should be allowed access to; that’s so self-evidently ridiculous that I don’t think anyone will ever take you seriously again – certainly I won’t.

            Reply
          49. David December 5, 2015

            Lol. My argument is based upon the 2nd Amendment. It talks about “arms” not weapons of mass destruction. You can read can’t you?

            Reply
          50. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Your argument was “inanimate objects can’t be bad” and did not mention (your radical misinterpretation of) the Second Amendment at all. I’ve never actually seen a dumber argument from a gun-humper.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          51. David December 5, 2015

            And that was in response to your statement that “…guns are to blame…”. Why don’t you research the 2nd Amendment and find out what the Framers were talking about?

            Reply
          52. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Guns ARE to blame, and you don’t get to hide behind a radical misreading of the obsolete Second Amendment.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          53. David December 6, 2015

            “Radical misreading”? Hmm…let’s see, Madison in the Federalist Papers and two hundred years of Supreme Court decisions. Who is “misreading”? Obsolete? Ha! It is because of the 2nd that we have the others.

            Reply
          54. Mr Corrections December 6, 2015

            Yes, a radical misreading. And no, the second amendment was not involved in the creation of any others. What an incredibly stupid thing to think.

            Reply
          55. David December 6, 2015

            Then our Founders and Supreme Court Justices were “radically misreading” it. You obviously are a product of Common Core. Look again Einstein. I didn’t say the 2nd was involved in the creation of the other amendments. I said it’s BECAUSE we have a 2nd Amendment that we do have the others. “Incredibly stupid”? My thoughts exactly!

            Reply
          56. Mr Corrections December 6, 2015

            Nonsense. The idiotic “guns for everyone, no regulations!!!1” reading dates back less than 50 years. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to form a citizen’s militia to replace the need for a standing army – in other words, something very like the National Guard. Since the US has a standing army, it’s now obsolete. At no point was it intended to be a licence for toothless inbreds to threaten census collectors because they think the government is collecting Jade Helm intelligence about them.

            I hope that helps! Read a goddam history book, you ignorant cretin!

            Reply
          57. David December 6, 2015

            Thank you for the chuckle. Obviously you won’t do any reading on the subject. You are wrong as to the use of the word “militia”. The purpose was an ultimate check on a tyrannical government. As for reading History books, please cite one which supports your blather?

            Reply
          58. Mr Corrections December 6, 2015

            At no point was the Second Amendment EVER intended to be a check on ‘tyrannical government’. That interpretation would have HORRIFIED the Founding Fathers. Read a goddam history book and stop listening to fake histories invented by talk radio charlatans.

            Reply
          59. David December 6, 2015

            Are you seriously believing the garbage you are spewing? That was the main purpose for the 2nd Amendment. E.g., “The best hope f

            Reply
          60. Mr Corrections December 6, 2015

            OK sorry that you’re both deluded and illiterate, and apparently so mad that you angrily hit post in the middle of typing.

            Reply
          61. David December 7, 2015

            Google “2nd Amendment check against tyrannical government” and read the scores of material supporting that proposition. Guess what? The 2nd Amendment ain’t about duck hunting!
            Molon labe

            Reply
          62. Mr Corrections December 7, 2015

            I don’t really care WHY you believe the daft alternate version of history that you cling to, and I really, really don’t care about the opinions of your fellow illiterates.

            Reply
          63. David December 7, 2015

            You have no authority for your position. I guess that makes you full of hot air. Read Madison in the Federalist Papers; letters from Thomas Jefferson; and, Supreme Court decisions. You can read can’t you?

            Reply
          64. Mr Corrections December 7, 2015

            Sorry, there is not one single quote that supports your ludicrous contention that the Second Amendment was meant to do anything other than protect the nation from foreign aggression. You won’t find a single historian that makes that claim, except maybe at whatever mouthbreather creationist university you attended (assuming you graduated from home school).

            Reply
          65. David December 9, 2015

            Start with Madison. Then Jefferson. Then tell me what you find–if you can understand what you read.

            Reply
          66. Mr Corrections December 9, 2015

            Not one single quote.

            Reply
          67. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Bingo!

            Reply
        2. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

          PS: all available polling indicates that the people are going to vote in the liberals next election.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Nope, judging by the rally’s and online quite the opposite is true. Trump has 10’s of 1000’s at his rally’s. Hillary 250. Several of the Repub candidates win over Hillary in the polls…. Your media is lying to you. The only way you will win is if you cheat. This country under the liberals WILL go down the drain and many smart Americans know that.

            Reply
          2. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            OK sorry you’re deluded. Not my problem.

            Reply
          3. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            I guess you are going nuts! Time to reinstate the asylums.

            Reply
          4. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            I said your delusions weren’t my problem.

            Reply
          5. kep December 3, 2015

            Isn’t it pathetic the way lying and deception have been elevated to a virtue under the Emperor?

            Reply
          6. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Their is no such thing as principled. Wrong is right an right is wrong. These people are so screwed up morally…. Aye yay yay!

            Reply
          7. kep December 3, 2015

            You really are insane, aren’t you?

            Reply
          8. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            Nah, just literate and non-delusional. Sorry that you think the polling is all mistaken; it isn’t.

            Reply
          9. kep December 3, 2015

            The only reason the Emperor was elected without being vetted was because of Bush. After 8 years of Bush, anything looked good. Now we have something in our White House that refuses to follow our laws and has further dragged our country into the toilet. You really think there will be another lying liberal placed in power by Americans? Americans need to stand up and take our country back from the career politicians, and place someone that will actually be our President

            Reply
          10. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            OK thanks for the delusions!

            Reply
          11. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Exactly, Why he got in for a second term is beyond me. But Mitt failed us….. Someone who thinks America first and who brings back our patriotism.

            Reply
          12. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            In another post I saw that you said, “I did too work at a real media outlet! It’s… it’s in Canada, you wouldn’t know it.”

            Now maybe you were lying again, or trying (and failing as usual) to be funny, but on the slim chance you were being honest, I suspected you were on the Soros payroll – perhaps affiliated with ADBUSTERS, the astro-turf outfit that was behind “OCCUPY”.
            It figures.

            Reply
          13. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            What do you expect. He’s living in LaLaland!

            Reply
          14. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Nope, that’s not what I’ve heard. Trump is going to annihilate the Hildebeast!

            Reply
          15. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            OK how can mere unambiguous polls argue with what you’ve “heard” in the echo chamber you wingnuts have constructed out of pure moronium. Sure Trump is less popular than Romney, and sure a sizeable fraction of the teabaggers have died or are going to die of old age between the last election and this one, and sure you’ve systematically alienated every voting bloc except angry old white men, but you’ve “heard” that a candidate who polls worse than Goldwater is going to win so that must be true. QED.

            Thanks for making my day!

            Reply
      3. kep December 3, 2015

        That is a liberal trait. Never let a good trade gym go to waste. Funny how the Emperor says how he is going to shove his meaningful gun control down America’s throats, and only a couple days later there is another mass shooting. Ever wonder if this isn’t a way to further the liberal agenda?

        Reply
        1. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

          Yes, I’m the one politicising this murder. Also, it’s Opposite Day.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            ? You mean we say black and you say white and you say white and we say black. LOL

            Reply
        2. joe schmo December 3, 2015

          It’s really gonna work. He’s always full of idle threats that either get forced down our throats through executive order or are forgotten about. I really don’t think he will win this one. Too many armed citizens….

          Reply
    2. The lucky one December 2, 2015

      “sources” what the hell does that mean? maybe it’s just the voices in your head.

      Reply
      1. Otto Greif December 2, 2015

        Law enforcement personnel.

        Reply
        1. yabbed December 3, 2015

          He was born in the USA in 1987.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            We no longer care! The idea of being able to walk our streets and go to places where many people congregate is disrupting the American way of life.

            Reply
          2. kep December 3, 2015

            I always feel quite safe knowing I can defend myself BECAUSE I carry a firearm.

            Reply
          3. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Except that you can’t – that never happens, statistically (although you’re dozens of times more likely to end up getting shot by your own gun, or shooting your own family members).

            Reply
          4. kep December 4, 2015

            I’m at least as well trained and as well armed as most leos. I’ve been handling weapons since I was 4yo. I did my time in service during Nam. Like most liberals, you are trying to argue a point you know nothing about. All you know is that you were told guns are scary bad things. Come back and talk once you have a working knowledge of firearms. Then, just maybe, you can have an intelligent conversation about firearms

            Reply
          5. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            I’m sure you’re very, very tough, and your service in the 101st Chairborne really hardened you up. However, the chances of you stopping a violent crime with your penis substitute are less than a tenth of a percent. The chances of you stopping a mass shooting are zero. On the other hand, the chances that you’ll get drunk or high on oxycontin then kill yourself or someone in your family are enormous.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          6. kep December 4, 2015

            Typical liberal response. Good to see you follow the mindless propaganda the regime spews. As with most liberals, I also bet that you never served anything but yourself, and have no clue as to what serving your country means. Can’t fix stupid, so not much sense talking to a wall

            Reply
          7. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            OK sorry that you can’t argue against facts so you have to resort to the feeble personal attacks again.

            Reply
          8. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Said the guy who posts nothing but inept personal attacks 9.999 out of 10 times.

            Reply
          9. David December 5, 2015

            Thank you for your service! I was with 83rd Aerospace Rescue and Recovery. Served in Linebacker II out of Udorn TAFB in Dec/Jan/Feb 72-73

            Reply
  9. fortunev December 2, 2015

    Just another day in the life of US domestic terrorism. Nothing to worry about. It will happen again next week. And the week after that until infinity. Like rats, the predators will feed on the innocent and each other until there is nothing left to gobble up. Go back to your soap operas and reality TV, folks. Nothing to worry about.

    Reply
  10. joe schmo December 2, 2015

    How very sad! I pray for the victims. How very sad for you morons…. Another I told you so moment:

    ‘About two weeks ago, the citizens of Redlands, California, were voicing
    opposition to having Syrians placed in their city. One woman at the
    local government meeting said “Are we really prepared for emergencies?
    ….. Particularly after what happened last Friday, in Paris?” And now
    Redlands, California, is dealing with exactly the sort of trouble this
    woman was talking about! How prescient! She understood exactly the
    sort of troubles will come when a certain demographic arrives. (She
    appears right at the beginning of the Youtube video.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

    Time to move them back to the ME. Just like they did ‘clock boy.’ That would end the carnage……

    Reply
  11. joe schmo December 2, 2015

    Another I told you so moment. Sayed Farook – Muslim! I rest my case:)

    Reply
    1. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

      I get that you racist cowards are happy that attention is being drawn away from your own terrorism (that kills seven times as many Americans as Muslims ever do), I just don’t get why you think being EVEN MORE RACIST is somehow going to defeat terrorism.

      Reply
      1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

        Not racist. Cautious:) Better to be safe than sorry. In case you didn’t know, most of the mass shooters – not conservatives. That’s because conservatives respect weapons and learn gun safety.

        I’m with DT. They need to be sent home and safe zones need to be set up in their designated countries. I seriously don’t mind help in feeding them….. That’s not being racist. That’s being a humanitarian. That’s wanting to be able to go anywhere in my Country without living in fear.

        Reply
        1. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

          Ah, so you’re not racist, you just want to discriminate based on race. Glad you cleared that up, though it’s odd you’re not calling for Christians – who commit terrorist acts that kill at least seven times as many Americans on US soil – to undergo the same scrutiny. Why is that not as urgent for you, do you think?

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Nope, when it comes to being safe in this country. Getting rid of the problems seems rational, doesn’t it? LOL Of course, you wouldn’t agree until it is you or your family that is hurt.
            Christians? Give me a break! This is a Christian country. You got a problem with Christians? Most liberals do. So now who’s the racist?

            Reply
          2. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            I got a problem with the fact that Christian extremists are killing seven times as many people as the people you want to persecute, yes. Why wouldn’t I? I also have a problem with fake patriots like you. Again, why wouldn’t I?

            Reply
          3. joe schmo December 2, 2015

            Extremists? Now Americans are extremists. You are a bigot and a racist. How dare you. What a hypocrite.

            You are not a patriot. Donald Trump is a patriot and thinks like a patriot. He is for country first just like all our founding fathers were.

            Patriot – a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

            By the way, you people have been so enamored by Europeans. My family is from Europe. That is the last place I would want to be at the moment. My family says that most Euro infidels are treated like crap. Women have to be accompanied by men when bringing food because women are thought to be unclean and food must be handed to the migrants by men. Women must also be accompanied by a man for fear of being raped. A family member was pushed out of their teaching position because migrants did not want to be taught by a woman infidel.

            If ‘uber’ liberal Corbyn wins in England, the military will be conducting a Coup because not only is he for the labor party he stands with Hamas.

            Hey, I have an idea, why not become a Europeon. America needs more true patriots. People who actually believe in America.

            Your argument is very weak!

            Reply
          4. Mr Corrections December 2, 2015

            OK sorry you want to hand-wave away terrorism if it’s done by the “right” people. I can’t imagine anything more un-American, personally.

            Reply
          5. aladythespian December 3, 2015

            You’re picking a
            fight with an unarmed man Mr. Corrections. He’s too indoctrinated
            with propaganda to have a cohesive thought. It’s a waste of time
            even trying to reason with this poor fool.

            Reply
          6. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            You are fools. LOL And you people have been indoctrinated by the ‘collective.’ Sorry, most conservatives no longer believe the media. They think more for themselves than you ever will. I dare you to go on conservative sites and spew your stupidity. You will quickly be mowed down and leave.

            Reply
          7. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            Yes, we’re well aware that Republicans – who really have no right to call themselves conservative any more – have stopped believing in objectively verifiable facts. That’s why you’re fighting reality on so many fronts, ranging from climate change denialism to Obama birthers to grain-silo pyramids or whatever the heck Ben Carson is rambling about this week.

            Reply
          8. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Well, as I see it. Republicans have forgotten where they came from. They have become RINO’s and we the conservatives no longer have use for their ideology. We can actually think for ourselves.

            Gore has made so much money from this false premise. Proof.
            Read and learn:
            http://origins.osu.edu/article/west-without-water-what-can-past-droughts-tell-us-about-tomorrow

            By the way, I am for clean air and clean water. Global warming and Climate change is a farce:)

            Ben Carson is a great guy but seems to be losing credibility.

            At least conservatives are not part of the ‘Collective.’

            Reply
          9. Carolyn1520 December 4, 2015

            All the intelligent republicans left the party when it was hijacked.
            What is left are the parasites who killed the host because you couldn’t survive as a third party.

            Reply
          10. kep December 3, 2015

            “Too indoctrinated with propaganda”???
            That would be you liberal commies that fawn on every word that the Emperor says, knowing that he can not and will not once speak a truth. Propaganda is what feeds you liberals. Truth seems to be something foreign to liberals

            Reply
          11. David December 4, 2015

            Seven times as many? What is your authority for that statement?

            Reply
          12. yabbed December 3, 2015

            Guns are the problem. Religious fundamentalists of any stripe, be the Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are the problem. People like you are the problem.

            Reply
          13. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            No. Guns are inanimate objects used by people who are deranged or damaged. They need to reinstate state institutions. That would be a start. Our laws have gotten too lax and too liberal.

            Reply
          14. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

            It would help to know history but I know facts aren;t the strong point of the right.. Mental institutions were closed as a cost saving move by the Reagan administration. You can thank St. Ronny.

            Reply
          15. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Facts! No, no, no. It is quite the reverse. You people never deal in facts. I rarely see any justification for information stated. I also know that Ronald Reagan closed institutions. Since we will be saving plenty should we elect DT, Trump wants to reinstate them. I don’t think you would disagree. The mentally challenged need help and, I for one, don’t mind paying to keep them contained.

            Reply
          16. Carolyn1520 December 4, 2015

            Yada yada yada

            Reply
          17. Carolyn1520 December 3, 2015

            It’s not a Christian country. Our founding fathers did not intend for it to be. How do you not know that?

            Reply
          18. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Yes, my dear it is! The first Christian’s that came to this country were escaping persecution in Europe. Our forefathers were Christians. It was just the way it was back then. People were much more God-fearing…. Where you get into problems is when you combine people from different religions. I have no problem with people of a different faith, however; when they start attacking me for my beliefs, then I draw the line.

            Reply
          19. Carolyn1520 December 4, 2015

            Spare me the “my dear” BS.
            I don’t feel like typing so here is a good article that just might clarify it for you

            “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
            –John Adams

            “As we witness yet again the brutal and bloody consequences of religious intolerance in the form of ISIS, we have a majority of Republicans pining for a Christian America. Proponents of converting the United States into a theocracy do not see the terrible parallel between religious excess in the Middle East and here at home, but they would not because blindness to reason is the inevitable consequence of religious zealotry.

            Conservatives who so proudly tout their fealty to the Constitution want to trash our founding document by violating the First Amendment in hopes of establishing Christianity as the nation’s religion. This is precisely what the Constitution prohibits:

            Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

            Back to the Beginning

            How terribly ironic that the louder Christians protest against the excesses of Islam, the more they agitate for Christian excess. We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. If there should be any doubt, let us listen to the founding fathers themselves. This from Thomas Jefferson in an April 11, 1823, letter to John Adams:

            The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. … But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding….

            These are not the words of a man who wishes to establish a Christian theocracy. Jefferson promoted tolerance above all and said earlier that his statute for religious freedom in Virginia was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammeden, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.” He specifically wished to avoid the dominance of a single religion.

            Let us be perfectly clear: We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. Our founding fathers explicitly and clearly excluded any reference to “God” or “the Almighty” or any euphemism for a higher power in the Constitution. Not one time is the word “god” mentioned in our founding document. Not one time.

            The facts of our history are easy enough to verify. Anybody who ignorantly insists that our nation is founded on Christian ideals need only look at the four most important documents from our early history — the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist Papers and the Constitution — to disprove that ridiculous religious bias. All four documents unambiguously prove our secular origins.

            Declaration of Independence (1776)

            The most important assertion in this document is that “to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

            Note that the power of government is derived not from any god but from the people. No appeal is made in this document to a god for authority of any kind. In no case are any powers given to religion in the affairs of man.

            Remember, too, that this document was not written to form or found a government but was stating intent in a way that was meant to appeal to an audience with European sensibilities. Only four times is there any reference at all to higher powers — “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,” “Supreme Judge of the world,” “their Creator,” and “divine Providence” — and in all four cases the references to a higher power appeal to the idea of inherent human dignity, never implying a role for a god in government.

            Articles of Confederation (1777)

            Throughout the entire document, in all 13 articles, the only reference to anything remotely relating to a god is a term used one time, “Great Governor of the World,” and even then only in the context of general introduction, like “Ladies and gentlemen, members of the court….” Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this document did indeed seek to create a type of government in the form of a confederation of independent states. The authors gave no power or authority to religion. And this document is our first glimpse into the separation of church and state, because just as the Articles of Confederation give no authority to religion in civil matters, so too does the document deny any authority of government in matters of faith.

            U.S. Constitution (1787)

            This one is easy, because the Constitution of the United States of America makes zero reference to a god or Christianity.

            The only reference to religion, found in Article VI, is a negative one: “[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” And of course we have the First Amendment, which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

            Federalist Papers (1787-88)

            While Thomas Jefferson was the genius behind the Declaration of Independence, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton and James Madison (publishing under the pseudonym “Publius”) were the brains providing the intellectual foundation of our Constitution. And what brilliance they brought to the task. The first time I picked up the Federalist Papers, I intended to scan the book briefly and then move on to more interesting pursuits. But I could not put it down; the book reads like an intriguing mystery novel with an intricate plot and complex characters acting on every human emotion. There is no better way to get into the minds of our founding fathers and understand their original intent than by reading this collection of amazing essays.

            As with the Constitution, at no time is a god ever mentioned in the Federalist Papers. At no time is Christianity every mentioned. Religion is only discussed in the context of keeping matters of faith separate from concerns of governance, and of keeping religion free from government interference.

            The founding fathers could not be clearer on this point: God has no role in government; Christianity has no role in government. They make this point explicitly, repeatedly, in multiple founding documents. We are not a Christian nation.

            “In God We Trust”

            Our national obsession with God in politics is actually a recent phenomenon and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. “In God We Trust” was first placed on United States coins in 1861, during the Civil War. (More about that in a bit.) Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that expression adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954, when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize “the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty.” But conservatives, ignorant of our history, or willfully ignoring it, wish us to believe that the pledge always referenced God. Here is Sarah Palin’s take, defending the “under God” clause: “If the pledge was good enough for the founding fathers, its [sic] good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.” One wonders if she thinks the founders were alive in 1954. I guess if Noah could live to be nearly 800 years old….

            That we are a secular nation was obvious to past generations, so much so that in the mid-1800s several groups formed to rectify what they considered a mistake of our forefathers in founding our country on principles of reason rather than faith. Perhaps the most prominent was the National Reform Association, established in 1863 for the purpose of amending the preamble to the Constitution to acknowledge God and Jesus Christ as the sources of all government power, because the original document does not.

            The National Reform Association believed that the Civil War was evidence that God was punishing the country for their failure to put God into the Constitution (nothing to do with slavery, of course). Also, note that this apparent knowledge of God’s mind is reminiscent of Pat Robertson’s claims about God’s wrath in Haiti, Florida and anywhere else he believes the devil has taken hold. Anyway, in their 1864 convention the National Reform Association agreed on a preamble that would replace “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union…” with “Recognizing Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, and acknowledging the Lord Jesus Christ as the governor among the nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government….”

            They presented their suggestion to President Lincoln, who avoided it like a dirty diaper. The Congress also dodged the idea but threw the group a bone by agreeing to put “In God We Trust” on our currency, in an act of pure political pandering. So “In God We Trust” was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. From the Treasury we also find out:

            The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary’s approval.

            The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.

            For much of our existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the Republic. We were born a secular nation and must remain one to sustain our future, unless we want to go the way of ISIS.

            Our founding fathers understood well the extraordinary danger of mixing religion and politics; we forget that lesson at our great peril. If we forget, just glance over to the Middle East. I tremble in fear for my country when the majority of conservatives believe we are a Christian nation; that frightening majority has forgotten our history, ignored our founding principles and abandoned our most cherished ideal of separating church and state. In mixing religion and politics, the religious right subverts both. And the world suffers.

            Reply
          20. David December 3, 2015

            Please provide your authority that “Christians–who commit terrorist acts that kill at least seven times as many Americans on US soil”. We both know you can’t. It was more of your bloviating coming out of your a..!

            Reply
          21. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            The source is FBI stats.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          22. David December 3, 2015

            FBI stats? Which year? What is the site for me to look at?

            Reply
          23. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            I’m sorry you cannot work google; that must be a mighty drawback in this day and age, especially when you’re seeking to retroactively justify your racism.

            The FBI maintains a list of publicly accessible reports here:
            https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications
            although the current terrorism reports are actually hosted by the NCTC and appear to be inaccessible to the public currently (or the site redesign is so bad I could not locate them).

            Not to worry! The NYT did a study with that well-known liberal organisation, the Police Executive Research Forum, which matches reports produced by that other bastion of Communism and Creeping Sharia Law, the United States Military Academy – you can read their conclusions here:
            http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/opinion/the-other-terror-threat.html

            Reply
          24. David December 3, 2015

            Well, checked your site for the FBI stats. They provided data up to 2009 through the National Counter Terrorism Center. They show that 15,765 were killed worldwide by terrorists. 932 by Christian extremists and 8,284 by Muslim extremists. This suggests that Muslims killed 8 times more than Christians NOT Christians 7 times more than Muslims.

            Reply
          25. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            The FBI doesn’t really collect accurate stats for the world, and – as I clearly stated – I was talking about in the USA.

            You are nearly 4500 times more likely to be murdered by anyone other than a Muslim terrorist, most probably using a legally obtained firearm. If you were IN ANY WAY serious about wanting to protect people and not attempting to institutionalise racism, you’d be talking about gun control and not persecuting people based on their religion.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          26. David December 3, 2015

            Well, according to your stats (The FBI uses the National Counter Terrorism Center) 33 deaths in the US from terrorism in 2009. 15,765 deaths worldwide. I definitely want to persecute the muslimes that are waging war against us. Protection is something I want to be able to provide for myself and family. I’d rather die standing than live on my knees.
            Molon labe

            Reply
          27. Mr Corrections December 3, 2015

            Yes, I get that you desperately want to find a justification for being a racist ass rather than talk about the ACTUAL problems, which are 1) guns and 2) inept Republican foreign policy. That’s no more than I expected, but I must have missed the part where you admitted I was correct.

            Reply
          28. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            LOL, great work David:)

            Reply
          29. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Yes David, well done on proving every one of your parroted talking points is completely false! Congratulations on making wingnuts look more like idiots than they already did!

            Reply
          30. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Yeah I was interested in looking in on how you were trying to spin the fact that, in a state that has some of the strictest and most unconstitutional gun laws in the nation, TERRORISTS with RADICAL ISLAM connections, one who had come ON A VISA that never should have been issued, WHO HAD BEEN VETTED AND PASSED MUSTER, were still able to get assault rifles and, even if they weren’t able to get assault rifles, had put together HOME MADE CLOCKS or similar devices to trigger IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVE DEVICES and had PLEDGED TO BE FIGHTING FOR ISIS.

            Of course to you this is just a case of a lone nut who was involved in a workplace violence attack, right? That’s probably how you’re spinning it or, if not, let us hear YOUR TAKE on it.

            This is a perfect case that shows how all the gun laws lunatic liberals can think up won’t stop those determined to kill. You can wave your magic wand and put in place all the gun laws you want and these two would still have gone on their rampage using other methods.

            This is a pure and simple act of Radical Islam inspired terror, carried out by people who at least one neighbor KNEW THEY WERE PLANNING SOMETHING BUT WAS AFRAID TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IDIOTS LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE CALLED HER RACIST AND ACCUSED HER OF THE SAME NONSENSE YOU’RE ACCUSING US OF.

            Reply
          31. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            I love that I kicked your ass so badly by pointing out your “research” was created by a neo-nazi front organisation – a fact that you admitted you knew – that you’re still following me from site to site, weeks afterward, posting paragraphs of ignorant gibberish. Total victory is delicious.

            Reply
          32. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Interesting that instead of addressing the points I made, which you know you can’t, you’re off on another one of your flights of fantasy.

            if a complete and obvious failure to refute ANYTHING I POSTED is what you call victory, I can only wish you more of the same – in fact I ENCOURAGE IT!

            Keep lying – it hasn’t worked yet, but if you do it long enough, who knows?

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          33. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            OK sorry that you’re nuts.

            Reply
          34. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Another of your lies – though if you were looking in a mirror and talking to yourself again, perhaps not.

            Reply
          35. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            If, by ‘total victory’, you mean posting lies and failure to actually refute anything I ever said. Ever.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          36. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            See previous post. I can’t imagine why you’d think I’d bother to answer a creepy neo-nazi stalker who has followed me to four different sites seriously – I don’t even read your posts.

            Reply
          37. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Update of above post: I just checked my maths, and I made a mistake – it’s not nearly 4500, it’s nearly 4600 – and that’s not versus the chance to get murdered but just versus the chance you’ll get murdered with a gun.

            But you know, don’t let that stop your wingnut cowardice. I mean, without fear, what would you have?

            Reply
          38. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Arguably some of the strictest gun laws in the nation didn’t stop these two from getting guns, but if guns weren’t available it’s likely the death toll would have been even higher as they had assembled various improvised explosive devices. Here is a great example of why we need to pause for a minute and take care to help as many Syrian and other refugees the SMARTEST, BEST WAY WE CAN by establishing a safe zone in or near Syria and then taking positive steps, not the ridiculous ones Obama is doing, to put down the dogs who are making Syria and Iraq unsafe, thanks to the FAILED FOREIGN POLICY of Obama and the Democrats. Talk to terrorists, we can win them over, Obama said.

            Clearly WRONG!

            Reply
          39. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            Yes, I’m glad you agree that nothing will work short of a total ban. Thanks for that!

            Reply
          40. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Except in countries that tried a ‘total ban’, gun violence is much worse than here, proving what a completely STUPID idea that only an IDIOT would propose that is!

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          41. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Absolute nonsense.

            Reply
          42. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Yes, everything you post certainly is, since if you could refute what I post, you would.

            Reply
          43. David December 4, 2015

            Actually, it is becoming more and more apparent that the actual “problem” is that proponents of Islam are waging war against the US.

            Reply
          44. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            No, the problem is Democrats who either are armed themselves or who have bodyguards who are armed but say WE can’t have our Constitutionally protected guns.

            When all the Democrats in government agree to give up their guns for good, and to not have armed bodyguards, we can talk about maybe it’s time for a change. But until they give up THEIR guns and armed guards, sorry, calls for us to disarm are ridiculous.

            Reply
          45. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Perhaps because he didn’t, because you AREN’T CORRECT. You’re consistently wrong, seriously so, on pretty much any topic.

            Reply
          46. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Yeah, that’s a great comfort to the friends and families of those in Santa Barbara WHO WERE JUST MURDERED BY MUSLIM TERRORISTS! Great timing!

            And look at you, a supporter of those who talk about WHITE PRIVILEGE and other RACIST nonsense complaining about institutionalized racism? You just completely blew whatever sliver of credibility you or anyone else though you still had.

            Reply
          47. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            It’s weird how racists always do this. It’s not even just the ones who have been busted posting neo-nazi propaganda, as you have, but all of them.

            Reply
          48. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            If you had any arguments that weren’t simply lies and ad hominem, it’s obvious you would present them.

            But you don’t, so you don’t.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          49. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            I’m sorry that all your stats come from Holocaust deniers & etc, but that’s no reason to get mad at me.

            Reply
          50. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Two more of your lies revealed. none of my stats come from there AND I’m not mad at you. At first you were hilarious in your ignorance, now it’s just boring and kind of like a mosquito buzzing around but never landing so the best you can do is swat it out of the air.

            Reply
          51. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            And here’s what you’re desperate for us NOT to know about:

            I am not going to say you actually said this in these words, because even if you did you will likely deny it.

            However, despite your attempts to allege it does, the U.S. DOES NOT lead the world in firearms related deaths.

            HERE ARE SOME FACTS, SOME INCONVENIENT TRUTHS, YOU FAIL TO MENTION:

            Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000.

            “Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011,” according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, “and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.

            There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths per 100,000 in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

            “Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew,” according to the Pew study. “The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993.”

            So note that in 2010 the rate in the U.S. was 3.6 per 100,000!

            COUNTRIES WITH MUCH STRICTER GUN LAWS HAVE MUCH WORSE GUN PROBLEMS THAN WE DO.

            According to the Organization of American States and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, these are the most violent nations on the planet outside of a war zone:

            At #11 in the world, South Africa has a significant gun problem – though many of the deaths there are also carried out in more gruesome fashion – a favorite is to bind one’s hands and feet so they’re helpless, then place a vehicle tire around the neck with gasoline or some other volatile liquid and finally light the person on fire and watch them suffer and burn. I’d rather take a bullet, personally.

            RATE: 9.41 per 100,000

            At #10, the Phillipines despite strict gun laws.

            RATE: 9.46 per 100,000

            #9, Mexico, which has much stricter gun laws than we do.

            RATE: 11.4 per 100,000

            #8, Panama’s firearm deaths are legend.

            RATE: 12.92 per 100,000

            #7, like Mexico, Brazil has very strict gun laws and has even engaged in a program of aggressively taking guns from the populace. The result?

            RATE: 19.01 per 100,000

            #6, Colunbia, isn’t doing so well either:

            RATE: 28.11 per 100,000

            #5, Swaziland is the most dangerous place in Africa for gun related deaths with a firearm death rate of:

            RATE: 37.16 per 100,000

            #4, Guatemala is no paradise either.

            RATE: 38.52 per 100,000

            #3, Honduras is even worse – and mind you these are the places Obama is actively recruiting people he’s bringing here to ‘fundamentally change’ America with.

            RATE: 46.7 per 100,000

            #2, Jamaica is not quite the worst place in the world for gun violence, but as #2 they try harder!

            RATE: 47.5 per 100,000

            And the worst place in the world for gun violence is NOT the U.S., it’s actually El Salvador

            RATE: 50.36 per 100,000

            Yes, Mr. Corrections is SO CONCERNED about gun violence in America (and may actually not even be a resident or citizen here – he’s been sort of dodging that issue) and yet he ignores the fact that there are so many places where gun violence is more than an order of magnitude worse. Many of which have much more severe gun laws – and all that does is ensures when there’s a showdown between the criminals and law-abiding people inevitably occur, the crimnals have guns, the good citizens don’t.

            Reply
          52. Mr Corrections December 4, 2015

            What does one single word of that have to do with anything in my post? That’s at least the third time you’ve pasted that gibberish in reply to one of my posts, and it’s been unrelated to the content every single time – are you OK?

            Reply
          53. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

            Nice try. I’ve conclusively refuted your claims that A) The U.S. has a gun violence problem much greater than countries where guns are outright banned – in fact the opposite is the case. B) The U.S. somehow stands out in the world as having the most gun related problems – again at best the U.S. is 12th, if that. They only gave the first 11 worst countries, none of which was the U.S.

            For all your hype, in any recent year less than 1% of the deaths in the U.S. were related to guns. More people are killed in car-related accidents (CDC: the number of deaths from motor-vehicle crashes has exceeded those from firearms since 1968) but funny, you’re not proposing a total ban on vehicle ownership and use – why not?

            But here is an interesting fact: In areas controlled by Democrats this is often reversed. For instance, from 1968 through 1991 the number of firearm-related deaths exceeded the number of motor-vehicle crash-related deaths every year in the District of Columbia. You see similar patterns where Democrats have control and have instituted strict firearm laws or laws that essentially act as outright bans.

            Finally, you keep posting this as if you’re making some valid point. If you check, the largest single category of the gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides, which the people would accomplish some other way if they didn’t have guns. Accidents take out another big chunk. You’ve done your best to try to make a false case that most gun incidents involve murder – but in fact many murders don’t involve guns, including some mass murders. How many guns were used to kill thousands on 9/11? That’s right, ZERO!

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          54. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

            Yes, well done arguing against the voices in your head. You sure proved something-or-other.

            Reply
          55. Bodhisattva December 5, 2015

            Talking to yourself again – or to the voices in your head – you certainly weren’t talking to me!

            Reply
          56. pisces63 December 4, 2015

            Well, well, well, here we go with selective memory loss. White Christians are the worse when it comes to terrorism. As a black woman, I know firsthand. Since emancipation, countless millions of blacks have been murdered by lynching, burning alive, beatings and absolutely nothing done about
            it. Through the 60’s an average of 3 a week were lynched and it is well documented. 11 black men’s bodies were found in the swamp where the murdered civil rights worker’s station wagon was found. Four little girls murdered in their bombed church by white Christians, in fact the leader was a minister. They preached hatred from their pulpits, look up the apology given to us by Southern Baptists, the worse of the offenders. You’ve burned down our churches up to 2015 as we speak. One white man burned down a black church the day after Obama won in protest. In 1966 Congress held meetings on black church burnings, 8 were in South Carolina. Then the shootings on South Carolina at a church that had been burned once before by klan members. Look at Tulsa’s black wall street area. Go read Slavery by another name. Get a clue and learn something. As for me, when you have a Trump fomenting hatred, intolerance Nazism, etc, I don’t worry about jihadists, I watch white Christians. Considered the most violent and murderous
            group on the planet in the last 100+ years, not by the FBI but Interpol who was startled at the growth of these groups due to a black man winning the presidency. We haven’t touched upon The Sikh Temple, centennial Park, Oklahoma City, David Koresh, Ruby Ridge. I could go on ad infinitum et ad nauseas. Just think, I haven’t touched on native Americans, have I. I’m
            66 and I have lived through too many of them to read this garbage and let it go.

            Reply
          57. David December 5, 2015

            Garbage? That is specifically the tripe you are spewing. “Three hanged per week in the 60s”. I would love to see your authority for that. My math says that would be about 1560 hangings. Also, millions killed after Emancipation? Where were these millions killed by white Christians? You are a blithering idiot.

            Reply
          58. pisces63 December 7, 2015

            Why t do us a favor and learn to read. It
            is quite fundamental. I gave distinct
            time frames and yes, this was done by white Christians in America as the God
            given right. Their right at white men
            who ‘founded’ this country, forgetting 10,000 years of native rule. I wrote from emancipation through the 60’s
            there were on average up to 3 lynchings of blacks a week. There is a book that documents it. Look it up.
            They also made post cards and souvenirs they sent through the mail. If that wasn’t bad enough, they railroaded
            and/or kidnapped black men, women and children into forced slavery and were
            paid a bounty per body by companies such as US Steel, coal mines, etc. they were worked to dead and literally buried
            where they died with barely a head stone.
            One such well documented case was the uncle of Dr. Holder, wife of the
            former Attorney general. Read the book
            or get the documentary, slavery by another Name and loose estimates are one
            million black people endured this. Go
            look up Tulsa’s black wall street and read about that one. How many dead there. White Christians exercising their God given
            rights. Don’t tell me about me, again,
            gnoramous.

            Reply
          59. David December 9, 2015

            3 lynchings per week since 1863? That would be about 20,000 lynchings. Nope. Didn’t happen! Try again!

            Reply
          60. pisces63 December 9, 2015

            Don’t
            have to. I know my history, you don’t. Suffice it to say, it isn’t Muslims I keep an
            eye on in this country. There wasn’t a
            Muslim in any of the heinous crimes committed against us. None.
            Nada. Nyet. The worse part? When this president wanted congress to come
            up with some law against homeland terrorism, Boehner said he would make no laws
            against patriots.

            Reply
          61. David December 9, 2015

            What about those 20,000 lynchings?

            Reply
        2. Cloudherder December 3, 2015

          How could they be sent “home to their own country” when the guy was born and raised in Chicago and is an American? And you aren’t a racist.
          And by the way, that thing “mass shooters are not conservatives” is a myth created out of whole cloth by FOX news and Brietbart and Rush and you little tools out there.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Unfortunately, it’s time to racially profile and I mean that for safety reasons! Cameras and surveillance of Mosques. Who’s coming and going from America. I really don’t give a crap what you think and neither do many, many Americans. We are getting really tired of this mess. Farook went to Saudi Arabia to bring back his wife. If he can go there for that, he can go back there to live.

            It’s called SAFETY, not RACISM. I dare you to look up the mass shooters. I did and I know most of them are not. Being on sites like this doesn’t make you bias? LOL

            Reply
          2. pisces63 December 4, 2015

            They have always racially profiled. Ask any black person.

            Reply
        3. dtgraham December 3, 2015

          Who is DT out of curiosity? I know I never said that.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

            Geez, ignorance is bliss isn’t it. You figure it out!

            Reply
          2. dtgraham December 4, 2015

            No, you tell me joe. If DT is me, where did I say that?

            Reply
          3. joe schmo December 4, 2015

            Definitely not you! Figure it out…..

            Reply
          4. dtgraham December 4, 2015

            Fair enough.

            Reply
          5. pisces63 December 4, 2015

            dumbass Trumped up mentality, dear. Now he is insulting Jews.

            Reply
          6. dtgraham December 4, 2015

            I made a comment recently about refugees that someone like joe could and would easily take out of context, plus I’ve been referred to often here by DT…with the capital D and T. Coincidence and honest mistake.

            I tried to imagine everything that DT might stand for, and for some reason the Donald never came to mind. Maybe that’s a good thing.

            Reply
    2. yabbed December 3, 2015

      He was born in the USA in 1987. He’s more of an American than Ted Cruz.

      Reply
      1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

        Ted Cruz’s parents were American citizens. His mother just happened to have him in Canada. They WANTED TO BE AMERICANS just like my parents wanted to be. These new migrants are different. 1) They don’t want to be American 2) They don’t want to assimilate 3)They want to make this country like the country they or their families left.

        Reply
        1. pisces63 December 4, 2015

          Mine goes back to slavery and since I was called the ‘n’ word by my 6th grade teacher and followed the civil rights movement, see right wingers try to take away my right to vote, I feel less like one every day.

          Reply
    3. pisces63 December 4, 2015

      American born. Illinois or Missouri!! Ted Cruz’s father was not and never was born in America. Canada and until he decided to run for president, he held a dual citizenship.

      Reply
    4. David December 4, 2015

      It is not “Muslim”…it is “Muslime”. Please get it right.

      Reply
  12. yabbed December 3, 2015

    Because of guns, we can’t go to a Christmas party without fear of being slaughtered. We can’t go to a movie theater or a restaurant, a shopping center or a service station without the risk of being shot. We can’t send our children to school without the fear that they will be shot dead in their classrooms. How can we live like this? How depraved as our society become when guns rule our public lives? Every Member of Congress who has voted against sensible gun control legislation, including Bernie Sanders, needs to be voted out of office. Until we refuse to live with guns threatening our daily lives, we will never be safe in our own communities.

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

      You want to eliminate guns just when we’re under attack. What a bunch of FOOLS. That’s like going into a war without any weaponry saying ‘peace man.’ Time for you to relocate to Europe. LOL I’d love to see how you survive that carnage.

      Sure you don’t live in California? Place of the fruits and nuts.

      Reply
  13. TiredOfTheHaters December 3, 2015

    This horrible crime was committed by an Americans. But all of you gun-loving right wingers are worried about refugees. Thanks to the righties, crimes like this will continue unfortunately.

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 3, 2015

      Huh? Not quite. Farook was a psuedo American. His wife had a Pakistani passport and was not a citizen of this country.

      No thanks to the Politically correct things will get worse. For example, the neighbor of this terrorist couple noticed that there was something strange going on next door – but – they didn’t want to contact the authorities because they did not want to be thought of as politically incorrect. If this person would have done the right thing, 21 people would still be O.K. Sorry, righties have nothing to do with what has occurred in the last 7+ years. It’s all on liberals. If they are guilty of anything it is of doing nothing.

      Reply
      1. pisces63 December 4, 2015

        If he was ‘pseudo’ after being born here, what does that make bigoted Christians??

        Reply
    2. kep December 4, 2015

      You mean the fault of the Emperor and his minions?

      Reply
    3. David December 5, 2015

      This terrorism was NOT committed by Americans.

      Reply
      1. Mr Corrections December 9, 2015

        Yes it was. Both were Americans; one was born in the US.

        You might not believe they were Americans, but that’s because you believe lots of stupid things.

        Reply
      2. TiredOfTheHaters December 9, 2015

        Mr. Farook was born in Chicago, I’ll. Check the facts.

        Reply
        1. David December 9, 2015

          The POS was born of Pakistani muslimes. His POS wife was Pakistani.

          Reply
  14. Bodhisattva December 4, 2015

    It’s great to see people trying to turn what is clearly a definitive example of what’s wrong with the left wing in America into some sort of justified attack on the right, but the point is that this was about TERRORISTS who had BOMBS and who would have done this EVEN IF GUNS DID NOT EXIST. This isn’t yet another excuse to try to attack the Second Amendment. Mr. Corrections likes to spin things against the Constitution, here are the facts for Mr. Corrections and others of his ilk:

    I am not going to say you actually said this in these words, because even if you did you will likely deny it.

    However, despite your attempts to allege it does, the U.S. DOES NOT lead the world in firearms related deaths.

    HERE ARE SOME FACTS, SOME INCONVENIENT TRUTHS, YOU FAIL TO MENTION:

    Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000.

    “Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011,” according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, “and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.

    There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths per 100,000 in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    “Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew,” according to the Pew study. “The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993.”

    So note that in 2010 the rate in the U.S. was 3.6 per 100,000!

    COUNTRIES WITH MUCH STRICTER GUN LAWS HAVE MUCH WORSE GUN PROBLEMS THAN WE DO.

    According to the Organization of American States and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, these are the most violent nations on the planet outside of a war zone:

    At #11 in the world, South Africa has a significant gun problem – though many of the deaths there are also carried out in more gruesome fashion – a favorite is to bind one’s hands and feet so they’re helpless, then place a vehicle tire around the neck with gasoline or some other volatile liquid and finally light the person on fire and watch them suffer and burn. I’d rather take a bullet, personally.

    RATE: 9.41 per 100,000

    At #10, the Phillipines despite strict gun laws.

    RATE: 9.46 per 100,000

    #9, Mexico, which has much stricter gun laws than we do.

    RATE: 11.4 per 100,000

    #8, Panama’s firearm deaths are legend.

    RATE: 12.92 per 100,000

    #7, like Mexico, Brazil has very strict gun laws and has even engaged in a program of aggressively taking guns from the populace. The result?

    RATE: 19.01 per 100,000

    #6, Colunbia, isn’t doing so well either:

    RATE: 28.11 per 100,000

    #5, Swaziland is the most dangerous place in Africa for gun related deaths with a firearm death rate of:

    RATE: 37.16 per 100,000

    #4, Guatemala is no paradise either.

    RATE: 38.52 per 100,000

    #3, Honduras is even worse – and mind you these are the places Obama is actively recruiting people he’s bringing here to ‘fundamentally change’ America with.

    RATE: 46.7 per 100,000

    #2, Jamaica is not quite the worst place in the world for gun violence, but as #2 they try harder!

    RATE: 47.5 per 100,000

    And the worst place in the world for gun violence is NOT the U.S., it’s actually El Salvador

    RATE: 50.36 per 100,000

    Yes, Mr. Corrections is SO CONCERNED about gun violence in America (and may actually not even be a resident or citizen here – he’s been sort of dodging that issue) and yet he ignores the fact that there are so many places where gun violence is more than an order of magnitude worse. Many of which have much more severe gun laws – and all that does is ensures when there’s a showdown between the criminals and law-abiding people inevitably occur, the crimnals have guns, the good citizens don’t.

    Reply
    1. Mr Corrections December 5, 2015

      Mods, this dangerous nutcase has followed me to four different sites so far, endlessly spamming talking points copy-pasted from neo-nazi websites. He’s been banned from at least two so far, and probably this should be the third.

      Reply

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