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Saturday, October 22, 2016

The only thing more disturbing about hearing Jeb Bush say that George W. Bush is his closest foreign policy advisor is having to endure Paul Ryan pretending to care about about alleviating poverty.

Paul Ryan doesn’t just get the facts about poverty wrong — “Mr. Ryan’s poverty report, like his famous budget plan, is a con job,” The New York Times‘ Paul Krugman wrote — he creates a narrative that purposely stigmatizes the poor.

When he released his first budget plan that would send millions below the poverty line, he often referred to the safety net as a “hammock,” as if poor Americans were lounging around waiting to live off the supple fat of $4 a day in food stamps. Casting doubt on the poor’s willingness to work is a core principle of “dogwhistle” politics meant to divide the deserving poor from the rest of us who benefit just as much from government help, but in ways that are far less obvious. As many have noted, some white folks have been calling black people lazy ever since black people stopped working for free.

Ryan has revised his rhetoric a bit and wisely opened up his thinking to consider some criminal justice reform, as long as it doesn’t touch on the root of the “New Jim Crow” — The Drug War. But his argument is basically the same: Poor people choose to be poor because they don’t know better. Cut their government support and give them life coaches so we can afford huge new tax breaks for the rich, who have never been richer.

The prophet George Carlin said, “Conservatives say if you don’t give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they’ve lost all incentive because we’ve given them too much money.”

We’re crawling out of almost 40 years of that “logic.” After massive tax cuts for the rich, we created about 20,000 jobs a month under George W. Bush, about 65,000 a month if you don’t count his disastrous last year. Under Barack Obama we’ve raised taxes on the rich and passed Obamacare, the biggest and most effective attempt to reduce inequality in at least a generation. And we’ve seen 98,000 new jobs a month… 182,000 if you don’t count his disastrous first year, which was severely hampered by the mess Bush’s disastrous last year left behind.

But facts only get in the way when your agenda is to undo progress. Republicans have to say the policies they oppose have failed because it’s the only way to argue against undeniable conservative failures. Here are five lies that conservatives insist on you accepting so we can redouble our efforts the help the people who truly need our help — the rich.

1. The “War on Poverty” didn’t work.

This lie is so invidious even some conservative writers have started pushing back against the idea that government spending hasn’t made a dent in poverty. But it’s the basic premise of Ryan’s attack on our safety net and it’s been repeated recently by GOP presidential candidates Jeb Bush and Mike Huckabee.

Conservatives compulsively ignore that many measures of poverty are taken before adding government aid into the equation. A new study shows that government programs are even more effective than previously thought at keeping Americans out of poverty. In 2012 alone, we lifted 48 million of our neighbors out of extreme need with the safety net.

The idea that the War on Poverty doesn’t work should be most offensive to seniors.



By any measure, we’ve cut the percentage of elderly Americans living in poverty by more than half since Lyndon Johnson declared the War on Poverty some 50 years ago. And they are the only group that didn’t see a spike into poverty due to the Great Recession.

Ironically, seniors are now the core of the GOP’s political power in America, and the only reason Republicans are able to pursue savage cuts to the stability we’ve created for our grandmothers and grandfathers.

2. The poor are lazy.

This is the true gospel of the right. It’s how they justify opposing every government program including Medicaid expansion, which only helps Americans who earn too much to qualify for regular Medicaid. And it’s built entirely on a misunderstanding of who the poor are.

Demos’ Matt Bruenig looked at census data and found that the vast majority of the poor in America are children, the elderly, the disabled, and students.


Sadly, 20 percent or so are working poor who would likely be pushed out of poverty if the minimum wage were raised.

Ah, what about the “Rest”? They sound lazy! They must be the shiftless hammock dwellers whose main goal in life is to suckle at the taxpayer teat. Yeah. Notsomuch.



Bruenig found that the vast majority of them are occupied with “Caring” for children or another loved one. That leaves fewer than 1 out of 10 poor Americans as the sort of jobless moochers conservatives would like you to believe all poor Americans long to be.

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Copyright 2015 The National Memo
  • Leftout

    Has any government economist , all are Stanford or Columnbia graduates- determined the minimum hourly rate ( 40? Hrs) that is necessary to not live in poverty. Is this for one person only, a family, children students? There are people who are getting 40k in subsidies ( entitlements) that equals approx $20 dollars per hour and they are still in poverty. Should we start at everyone getting 50k and if you work, the better for you? Who defines this mythical number.

    • itsfun

      The problem with minimum wage should be a state issue. Every state has a different cost of living. A cup of coffee in New York is something like $5 a cup, while the same cup in Florida is something like $1.75. Its not a case of one size fits all.

      • Leftout

        The price BMWs and Starbucks coffee , iPhone is the same everywhere. A cup of great coffee at Dutch farmers market comes with 3 eggs, bacon, home fries , toast is $5.95, and you can refill before leaving.

        State issue? Then why are they nationalizing the issue. I say bargain for your needs and if you do not get it, get a part time job to supplement. Not everyone can afford a BMW and Starbucks everyday. Just sayin.

        • johninPCFL

          Fine. Then we must implement a class in middle school on “negotiating”. Most poor and lower-middle-class have no idea how to present themselves for a job. Those skills are taught to the well-to-do from birth.

          • Leftout

            We all negotiate a wage for ourselves based on our skill sets. I did not have many at 16 so i scrubbed bakery pans, waxed school auditoriums, stocked shelves. Some people call settling for a wage as being exploitation, but I took what ever I could arrange and worked extra if needed more, Alll menial jobs at first, I enjoyed the work and met interesting people along the way. Most of my grandparents were laborers No education. I made my own way through graduate school, with private, paid back loans while working as well.
            We should teach mandatory practical matters in high school, shop courses , home Econ. Along with lit and science as needed .

          • johninPCFL

            I was a lower middle-class student who happened to be bright. Negotiating my salary was not a skill I learned from my parents. I learned it at GE after starting at a very low salary and working there for many years. That opportunity (to learn to negotiate your wage) is not taught at McDonalds, Starbucks, Burger King, etc. Their management philosophy is that all people are cogs, none with any more value than any other, and that slavery yields the best workers.

          • Leftout

            I had no negot. Skills either, I knew the general range and was glad to get an offer. I never had a thought that I was being exploited, sure we all want to get more. I was a hard worker who had no pride on even shoveling manure, which I still Do, and not only in these forums. The only way that I could ever get a higher mgt job/ salary is to leave , since most people were entrenched in their position. Most HR depts control salaries with in narrow limits. Once in a while I would be able break them. A lot is having a decent personality, not arrogant . Of course being good looking it helps. One time we had a beautiful applicant , female, but we decided as males to hire someone less attractive, would you believe that, so we do accept two baggers to keep office staff focussed on the job. …..she had a great personality . On higher levels in private jobs there is more range for flexibility, but your job be be short lived ….choices are there for each risk level.

          • johninPCFL

            The BIG present for me when I was young was a $20 spincast rod from my dad. I think a big year for my dad was $3500, and my mom was stay-at-home.

            My grandmother left me $1200 in her will and that got me through junior college. I married and my wife put me the rest of the way through a four-year degree in chemistry. I graduated just at the tech bust of the mid-70s (when Boeing engineers were pumping gas.) I mended three-rail fence until the GE job, which was for the DOE. I hired in about 1/3 below their “average starting salary” because I did’t know to ask for more.

            Carter was president and 7% raise caps were placed on large businesses. Fortunately that was the average raise and I worked hard. My raises during that period were about 17% and I caught up with the curve. Like I said, I learned during that time to negotiate.

          • Leftout

            I remember 15% raises, not as good as you I guess. Also 12- 15?% mortgage, I had one and did not care, I took a chance, I knew that I could always pump gas or dig sewer Trenches if need be. Sound s familiar. There are many of us out here doing this . Not all of us are Obama spoon fed.

          • johninPCFL

            None I’ve met are. I hear a lot of chatter, but no one has yet produced an interview with an “Obama spoon fed”.

          • Leftout

            obama of course, Spoon fed, wealthy terrorist friends as BillAyres and others , arranged mortgage by Tony Rezko,,noted Chicago crook of Syrian islamist heritage who influences Obma to this day, private schools, remdial classes at Columbia and Harvard, never seen anyone in a class room, i contend. Is there any pattern here of Collusion, corruption, udercurrent deciet, treason, sedition. Just sayin. This president belongs in any country but this. He has only planned fo d estry this nation period, prove other wise , anyone.

          • johninPCFL

            The same Bill Ayres who was never convicted of a crime? The same Bill Ayres whose works are used and quoted by the head teabagger himself, “The Big Dick” Armey?

            Tony Rezko? “He was a fundraiser for Illinois Democratic and Republican politicians.” How about JEB’s collusion with Camilo Padrera who pleaded guilty to defrauding the Dept. of Housing and Urban Dev. of millions of dollars during the 1980s and his “relationship” with Miguel Recarey who defrauded Medicare through overcharging, false invoicing and embezzlement, as onetime head of International Medical Centers in Florida. How about JEB and his brother Neil bankrupting the Miami Federal (Neil’s 2nd) to the tune of over $2 million.

            Nobody saw Obama in class? From Snopes: “Those who have attested to having daily personal experience with him during his time at that school include:

            Friend and roommate Sohale Siddiqi, whom the Associated Press located and interviewed in May 2008.

            Roommate Phil Boerner, who provided his recollections of sharing a New York City apartment with classmate Barack Obama to the Columbia College Today alumni publication and the New York Times in early 2009.

            Michael L. Baron, who taught the year-long honors seminar in American Foreign Policy that Barack Obama took during his senior year at Columbia and recalled in an NBC interview Obama’s “easily acing” the class and receiving an A for his senior paper on the topic of nuclear negotiations with the Soviet Union.Likewise, other external evidence documents Barack Obama’s presence at Columbia from 1981-83, including:

            An article by Barack Obama published in the 10 March 1983 edition of Columbia’s Sundial school magazine.

            A January 2005 Columbia College Today profile of Barack Obama as a Columbia alumnus.

            A Columbia College press release from November 2008 identifying him as “the first College alumnus to be elected President of the United States.”Finally, the fatal flaw in the “Obama didn’t go to Columbia” theory is that he couldn’t have been admitted to Harvard Law School in 1988 without having received an undergraduate degree. If he wasn’t attending Columbia from 1981-83, he would have had to complete two full years’ worth of coursework at (and graduate from) some other accredited college — yet his time between the end of his Columbia days in 1983 and his entering Harvard Law in 1988 is accounted for (working at the Business International Corporation and the New York Public Interest Research Group, then serving as director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago), and no other school claims him as an alumnus, nor does anyone purport to have encountered him as a classmate or student at any other college or university during that period.”

          • Leftout

            Yes that is the same Bill Ayres, that admitted to setting bombs , but not enough damage was done , even though some of his ignorami blew themselves up, in NY, some justice there, I guess. Siddiqi,Sohale, a known Pakistani Moslem gay who was hiding for safety. , the same Tony Rezko that was convicted in Chicago. Did not follow Jebbush and not a fan of his.
            As you so aptly researched there is evidence of paper trails that Obama attended Columbia and Harvard , but no one ever saw him except his personal remedial instructors.
            Michael Baron may have taught seminars / classes as described and saw that someone aced the class . He was described as a Columbia alumnus. I also passed thru Columbia. But no one has ever seen Obama in classes, is that not strange. Or actually taking an exam. Your narrative shows a lot of work, but does not have any humans attesting to Obamas presence in any class. His reign is almost over and no one is going to vet him at this point because all would be mortified , at the charade, literally perhaps.

          • JPHALL

            How many have these opportunities while in their twenties? Few, if any, without rich connections.

          • Leftout

            I was finished college at age 21, than working, nights so I could attend graduate school, days, paying for my tuition on graduate level, more degrees came more pay and I just continued. I had a low down payment on a house since I was working, but I paid for the mortgage as compared to some with the Barney Frank home sales. They are still making these Barney loans . Opportunities, like paper boy, slugging thru, menial ( not on my Resume’ ) labor jobs , cleaning bakery pans ( ?is that coming from a rich background. ?) these jobs are everywhere. I did all,on my own resources. If one gets married one get get help from spouse financially or helping with children. Some families both people work, have children and attend classes, and have vacations. I can name many. It is what you make it.

          • JPHALL

            Like I said, name some twenty somethings able to do what we did twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. The job market has changed. Some things are improving, but the jobs we made it on were sent to China and India. That is why so many live with their moms. They are trying, but need help. Subject: Re: Comment on 5 Lies Paul Ryan Needs You To Believe About Poverty

          • Leftout

            I may have misinterpreted , living with parents is great way to save some cash and maybe help parents as well. But most young ones think they must get a grand home , and think they need the privacy, learning later it is not so easy. It takes focu for sure. Thanks for conversation also.

      • Magnus Thunderson

        when I was back in LI NY last year the old 2 dollar breakfast special (large egg with cheese and sausage with a cup of coffee and a small can of juice or was still just 3 dollars down here in which is not most expensive city in Florida you cannot get breakfast under 6 in fact I did nor see any difference in food cost in NY then down here and housing is cheaper but wages are also a lot less and while we pay less in property tax’s we pay the highest home owners insurance in the country over double what NY homes pay and if you figure in our houses being smaller and less valuable we pay about 4 times more and you can get a cup of crappy coffee for 1.75 but for a quality cup expect about 4 or more

        • itsfun

          I didn’t intend to make a comparison between New York and Florida. I should have said city A and city B or state A and state B. I would think though home insurance is higher because of the threat of hurricanes.

          • Magnus Thunderson

            Funny thing about that is the NY odds of 1 in 50 to get a hurricane and Tampa 1 in 300 which is not true about the rest of the state as Miami and the keys have about 1in 9 chance

          • itsfun

            I lived in Tampa for about 5 years. The folks there always said the Bay messed up the hurricanes. I have no idea if that is right or not, just know Tampa hasn’t had a hurricane in a long time.

    • johninPCFL

      Where does this $40k-in-subsidies number come from?

      • Leftout

        There was a study a couple of months ago, saw it 2X . But it included housing allowances, , WIC, Medicaid , food / school allowances, and some monies. Transportation, Can not find at the moment.

        • johninPCFL

          Yes, a widow with four children under 18 could get that in some areas of the country.

    • 1standlastword

      I overheard a Briton on NPR talking about his passion for American politics and his observations and interactions of the hoards legislators and staff moving around the Capitol: He said that when it comes to governing they all seem to make it up as they go along.

      Even if that sounds far fetched most of us accept that all the laws to do with the most important aspects of American life are written by the lobbyist for the corporations that benefit from those laws.

      Politicians–including the POTUS, are just water carriers for the corporations. If We the People did our job as elected politicians do theirs we’d be relived of our service…pronto!

      The problem of late is Americans no longer elect people to work in government to solve the problems that afflict us. The Tea Party is a splendid example here. Sarah Palin’ message was we’re going to Washington to tear it up and that is exactly what the Tea Party is doing at the expense of the People.

      The modern politician is an activist on steroids!!

      • Leftout

        The people are out of the equation anyway, with crony PACs and lobbyists for the politician benefit. so why not have a group go in and revamp. I feel strongly that some brave soul should introduce a bill against PACs and have the people to support it.

  • game50

    If you don’t like the Job you have,then do something to change it. After all its your life and not the government. The people with higher paying jobs didn’t wait for someone to give them their job,they worked for it.

    • johninPCFL

      Sure. Every janitor can quit his job and return to college to become a brain surgeon, right?

      • game50

        JohninPCFL: Anything is possible if you really want it and put your mind to it. How do you think the others did it. I didn’t say quit your job,I said do something different to get a better out come in life.

        • johninPCFL

          I think they started with parents with higher-paying jobs. It’s like being born on second base and hearing your whole life you hit a double. Like the Bill Gates story. He famously dropped out to found Microsoft, supposedly at fantastic risk. Except his parents were both very successful attorneys, and Bill would have inherited a comfortable life no matter what. That’s not to celebrate his success, just to point out that he wouldn’t have fallen had he failed.

          Others from poorer backgrounds have hit a bunt. Some try to run it out, others are resigned to being out at first. Can the odd individual make a triple out of it? Sure. There’s one per decade out of a hundred thousand at-bats in the majors. The Steve Jobs history fits that mold, though he started more upper-middle-class than poor.

          So, how many Bill Gates and Steve Jobs stories are out there? Not too many in either case. But the near-Bill-Gates stories outnumber the near-Steve-Jobs stories by a large margin.

          • Leftout

            These are the one per centers, chances are hard to break out, there are great singers, writers, athletes, but even they are a minority and work hard to break out, it works . But here are many in the intermediate levels making it. Not a million a year but making it.

          • johninPCFL

            Agreed. But in my mind the hopelessness of “being out at first” leads to Baltimore, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. Most poor kids don’t have the skills to start a business, get hired for a good job, etc. Just a little boost, like the old shop and welding classes that I took, plus a little help in negotiations (presentation, assertiveness, grooming, etc.) would be a huge help in reducing both joblessness and inner-city violence.

          • Leftout

            We are very similar, I still take welding, electrical wiring, sheet metal working on weekends, because I want to learn these hands on trades . I had taken the sciences and graduate school and on , as well and envied the people that could do these things. The trades are a great place to start, hard work but it pays well. I wish I was in charge of dept of education. It is true the youth need direction perhaps on where to be pointed.

          • johninPCFL

            My dad was a steam and power pipe fitter in Baltimore before he moved the family to FL to be with my mom’s aged parents. No Crystal River nuke plant then, so no real opportunities for a pipe fitter, so he went into business for himself as a general contractor. My first job was sweeping floors at the jobsites, and I remember falling through a roof access door when I was about five.

            I had never considered college, and went through the “trades classes” in middle and high school – mech drawing, architectural drawing, metal shop, wood shop, welding, etc. I still do most of my own mech design, but use CAD now.

            My 10th grade algebra teacher convinced me to consider college. I ended up getting the Rensselaer Math and Science Award (couldn’t afford to go there even with the attached scholarship) and going on to local college. I registered for my first classes the day classes started…and was admitted to JC two months later. My draft number was pretty high and I was never called up.

            Thanks for the conversation. Best of luck to you and yours.

          • JPHALL

            Tell that to Bush/Cheney and “No Child Left Behind” which got rid of shop and trade classes.

          • paulyz

            Guess what, Conservatives oppose No Child Left Behind, and Common Core, which is worse. These are examples of what happens when the Federal Government gets involved with every aspect of our lives.

          • JPHALL

            Yet it was pushed by Republicans and hailed as the best thing to happen to public education!
            Subject: Re: Comment on 5 Lies Paul Ryan Needs You To Believe About Poverty

        • Independent1

          When are you ever going to come of of your La La Land??

          For every person today who becomes successful, NO MATTER HOW HARD HE TRIES AND HOW MANY LOOPHOLES HE JUMPS THROUGH, there are 10,000 or more who WORK JUST AS HARD AND ARE JUST AS SMART but end up in mediocrity!!

          Join this planet will you, and stop living in your fantasy world!!!!!!

          • game50

            Independent1: With your attiude that would expland why your not a Boss…keep working and good luck in whatever you do in life.

          • Independent1

            My point is, that not everyone wants to be a Bill Gates, or even the CEO of a company, or even someone so prosperous that people like you consider them ‘successful’.

            The vast majority of people just want to make enough money to live comfortably without constantly having to worry about paying their bills. And problem is, the GOP has been making that harder to do especially since Reagan took office by allowing those who are extremely successful to get away without paying what’s really a ‘fair share of taxes’ based on the success they’ve achieved – the majority of the time not because of ‘hard work’ but because of ‘good fortune’. And on top of that, they’ve gamed the system by convincing those who are ‘successful’, those who run companies, to care very little for the welfare of the people who work for them and need a helping hand, and rather, to be more concerned about what the people who invest in their companies think, the majority of who are the people who have already become successful and can afford to invest in their adventures.

            And the ones how have become successful more often than not, haven’t gotten that way because the worked even harder but rather because they’ve had the ‘right idea’, or just happened to start the ‘right business’ at just the ‘right time’ (or like Mitt Romney) just happened to have someone like Dad who could fund them in starting the business that has made them ‘successful’ (and like Mitt – successful at the expense of others) . There are millions of Americans who worked just as hard as they did, but fortune didn’t shine on them because the ‘idea they had’, or the way they started the business, or the field they chose to go into, just wasn’t what was right ‘FOR THE TIME’ or what enough people in the world wanted to make it successful!! IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT HARD WORK – OR THOSE WHO AREN’T SUCCESSFUL BEING LAZY!!!!!!

          • game50

            Independent1: You make some good points however,in order of those people to be where there at ,they have to work smarter not harder. Nothing was given to them from the get go..they earn it.
            You talk about people paying their fair share of taxes. Did you know that Wal-mart,GE, and other big business DON’T pay a dime in taxes. Now that’s not fair.
            When the time comes that the government stop over taxing reg. Business,maybe then they can hire more people to work. That way more taxes can be gotten from more people…now thats everyone paying their fair share.

      • hicusdicus

        Before anybody can do brain surgery they need to find someone with a brain. Finding someone with a brain is getting harder to do. If you want proof just follow the comments on NM.

        • Insinnergy

          Pointless troll is pointless.
          Nice to see you showing your true colours.

          • hicusdicus

            Enlighten me, I always thought my true colors were black and blue.

      • Leftout

        Yes they can.

    • atc333

      Quit it and go to what? Another minimum wage job? What, get your degree, and be told you still will start at minimum wage? How many college graduates does your son know now working at minimum wage? So long as the GOP controls the House and Senate, the minimum wage earners, rather the current “standard wage” earners are stuck without receiving a living wage, as they continue to claim a higher minimum wage causes a growth slowdown. That is a lie. The states which have taken it upon themselves to increase the minimum wage are seeing their economies improve, disproving another Right Wing GOP lie, as does the Kansas economy, for those watching the trials and tribulations of that states Governor, attempting to prove that GOP economic theory can actually work,. So far, he has proved the opposite, compared to the economies of the 13 other states surrounding Kansas. Not unlike what the rest of the nation has seen during the past 3 GOP Administrations, fewer job creation, more deficits, and slower economic growth, unless of course, you are in the top 2%. Then Right wing GOP Economic Theory works exceeding well—for them..

      • Leftout

        You take what ever the market has, and move on. What a load. And what is an acceptable above poverty min. Wage. Still no answers from anyone, no one , nilch !!!!

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Here is the REAL problem: BAD MATH. First, you stagnate salaries back to the 1970s levels. Then, you continue to be entitled to jack prices on basic necessities..Reeks reeks reeks of bad math. If the price of a loaf of bread in 1970 was 25 cents…Compare that to today’s prices at anywhere from $1.50 to $2 a loaf. This is pure and unadultered BS. That loaf of bread doesn’t cost more to bake. Not with the glut of oil that produces enough electricity or natural gas to bake it.

    Ryan better never step his feet in my state. I’ll be the first to smack him upside his stupid face.

    The reality is that peoples salaries in the 1970s still allowed them to afford bread, milk, rent and make repairs on their homes. Today? Greed rules. But, never for one minute think that greed doesn’t do itself in.

    They didn’t mind helping themselves to all of our tax dollars for Big Oil, coal, Fracking, prisons industries and the military industrial red states…but they hate having to increase salaries even a small amount to cope with their insistence on price gouging.

    When you refuse to increase salaries to adjust to the increases in prices on necessities, you stupidly crash the economy just like the idiot red state plantation owners did. Without free slave labor, their plantations all went belly up. This proves one thing and one only. Men in business are selfish little pigs and greedy animals.

    That is Plantation mentality.

    • Ruby_Con

      FYI, adjusted for inflation $0.25 in 1970 is actually about $1.60 in todays dollars.

      • Eleanore Whitaker

        Precisely…So why does bread cost more? According to your post, the only reason is “inflation.” Is inflation another word for “GREED?”

        • Leftout

          Bread if made at home cost about 1.67 / lb loaf. Today. There is transportation, dsotribution, , food today is still cheap, basic stuff anyway. The biggest part of decrease for disposable income was thehigly manipulated price of gas. I was paying overnight for no reason, an extra $ 600 / month for traveling toNYC.and heating/energy > 500, prices It cost $100 plus tolls to get into the city, that is after taxes. . Fortunately prices have come down,…ouch! This also effects transportation of goods at every level. This has been going for 20 plus years. Then silly EPA, ACA fees. These fees are still in affect. The middle class worker has been devoured. By the ends, the poor, and the corps/ NAFTA…MY FAVORITE.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            You are such a liar. First of all, to prove you wrong, I did a test yesterday. I always bake my own breads, pies, cakes etc. I ran out of yeast which is a necessary ingredient to make bread. I decided to buy the yeast at Walmart…at place I NEVER do my grocery shopping unless under threat of pain and torture.

            The yeast cost $1.79 for a 3-pack which is the only way it is sold in packets. Walmart also sells yeast in small jars of 4 ounces for $2.97…already way over your BS $1.67/lb loaf. Do factor in the cost of using the oven to bake it and the flour and sugar and salt. Already nearly $3 dollars. But you love to slather on the slime ball lies don’t you?

            Had I shopped for the yeast at Shop-Rite, the cost of a 3-pak was $2.39. The bottled yeast? $2.94 for 4 ounces of yeast.

            Enough with your BS…Inflation is the personification of GREED, you righties make huge profits from and then bitch at the rest of us for not living within our means. Get off the SUV and Bully Boy pickup truck gas guzzlers, the $600,000 McMansions you hope will make you look wealthy and the rest of your BS lavishments you know are costing everyone else longer work hours and stagnated pays.

            Stop imposing your rights on the rest of us and get off that willful little rightie routine you hope will impose YOUR will on us. Your rights and will are EQUAL to ours. Your superiority act on steroids impresses no one.

          • Leftout

            Hi Eleonore, got up late today? I believe you may have Candida on your neurons . You obviously are a. Spoiled wealthy one that does not know how to shop. I use Red Star powdered yeast , 1 teaspoon maybe 2 if I want to get high. king Arthur’s 4 Cs flour – large bags – cheaper, tsp. sugar and let er rip. Bake at 375 for 30′. Yummy. I do not have an SuV, but a 1997, F150, red, you would like the back seat, plenty of room to stretch out and throw your legs in the air .

            My rights are equal to all, but my rights are used to improve instead of waiting for someone to throw an appeasing crumb. What is your hourly wage rate to make you happy and establish a normal existence, and not waste your Fn money on pre packaged yeast. Even a guy knows better than to buy that way. You must have had a pampered life.

        • You don’t understand inflation. It is not caused by greedy capitalists. It’s caused by a greedy government that has reduced the value of the dollar.

          A loaf of bread could be had for a quarter in 1964. In 1965, the government stopped minting silver coins. You can buy a loaf of bread today for a quarter – if it is a quarter minted before 1965.
          The value of a loaf of bread hasn’t changed, and neither has the value of silver. The only thing that has changed is the value of a US dollar.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Sorry…but you are wrong. I worked on budgets for CEOs at ADP and Akzo Chemical back in the 80s. I know what I saw. And the government is you. The government is NOT greedy.

            What you CONs hate to EVER admit is that greed starts ALWAYS at the top. I’ll prove it. Back in the 80s, every budget of corporations included projected figures for payouts for CEOs bonuses and perks, as well as their annual increase in salaries.

            In order for these corporations to meet these projected budget figures, their million dollar CPAS would work out the numbers so that there was an annual increase in the price of goods and services to customers. Don’t you DARE tell me government and not CEOs feeding from the trough are the cause of inflation.

            That is MORE BS than even you can manage. Here’s a perfect example of inflation that comes from one of the Greediest, wealthiest families in the US…The Waltons. Go to any Walmart and check out the prices on their beef. It’s 3 times more costly than ShopRite. Why? because as we all know, Walmart beef comes mainly from red states. So, in order for Walmart to keep its plantation mentality going strong, it buys cut rate beef from red states only and then jacks the prices in their stores. Who profits from that? The Government?

            Not when the government has to shell out every year an annual $200 billion to insure Agri-corporations ALL in red states.

            Inflation has Nothing to do with government and everything to do with pigs at the top who salivate and lust over their next annual salary increase. How do they manage that? Stiffing their employees by stagnating their salaries, jacking consumer prices and then helping themselves to government hand outs in the form of tax cuts and tax subsidies. Inflation is greed personified.

          • Higher prices are a SYMPTOM of inflation, not the cause. Inflation is defined as the expansion of the money supply. If you had taken even one course in economics you’d understand. Banks and government are able to expand the money supply, but businesses can’t.

            Government increases the amount of money in circulation through things like QE. Banks can do it because of something called “fractional reserve banking”, a policy created by government to help banks make money. If you deposit $100.00 in a savings account, the bank can loan $900.00 to someone else. They only need to keep your $100 “in reserve” to back up the money they loaned out. The money loaned is created out of thin air. When there are more dollars in circulation, each dollar is worth less than it was before. Think of an apple pie cut in 6 pieces. If you cut it into twelve pieces there are more pieces, but there aren’t more apples. That is inflation.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            I know the definition of inflation. The analogy is a balloon I fill with hot air after I use a mechanism to inflate it.

            Government has nothing to do with what corporations choose to do to their prices on goods and services. I’ll prove. Right now, oil is in the toilet as a result of OPEC refusing to cut production. So, in order for Big Oil not to lose market share, they decided to hit up taxpayers for more money for drilling oil, all of which will be exported OUT of the US since the US demand for oil has dropped by 17% in just the last 10 years.

            So..where’s the inflation in Big Oil suddenly increasing the price of gas at the pumps to pay for their new round of drilling that will earn them higher profits which will pay higher CEO salaries, bonuses and perks.

            Reagan screwed up royally with that BS “Trickle Down.” How stupid was he to think any rich man EVER shares a dime of his profits. All Reagan did was open a door to massive inflation done exclusively by CEOs of the biggest US corporations.

            That is NOT inflation…THAT is GREED. Nice though that a middle aged individual like you is trying to market your version of theft by corporate fraud and deception. You are WRONG.

          • It is appropriate that you would use a balloon as your example of inflation. You know nothing about economics, but you continue to blow hot air.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Wrong Mr. Know it All. I was the executive assistant who worked on ADP’s and Akzo’s annual budgets. Where the hell do you get off telling ME what I know about economics?

            I continue to prove you are a moron. Which, YOU can’t stand. I know that wealthy men spend like drunken sailors on things they know they can only get by stiffing their employees.

            Kozlowski and his $7,000 shower curtain? Ebbers, Icahn, Jeff Skilling? and the King of Crooks, Madoff…all men who had minds like yours…take take take take…don’t worry who you screw over…that’s YOUR economics.

            Sorry but women know economics in ways men never can. You men will spend on gas guzzlers you can’t afford, box seats in the tens of thousands for sports to show off and then you have the balls to tell women about economics?

            Paul Ryan has NO balls….what little remains of his midwestern slash and burn BS is not going to cut it with women in the US who earn less and work more than you punk snot nosed rich HAVES who stack the cards against us ever will. You men always go down in flames…

          • Being the “executive assistant” (secretary) to someone who worked on a budget does not make you knowledgeable. You do not understand economics. You don’t even recognize the definition of inflation. Rant on.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Paul…Just because you worked as a garbage man, doesn’t mean I was a secretary. As a matter of fact, I was an office/accounting manager. That means I can and have done business accounting and budgeting. Do try not to overtax your brain like you do your butt with BS.

            My first employer was the Ombudswoman to the SBA. My second became the late Senator Lautenberg, my third job was assistant VP in a chemical corporation. My last was a return to my tech writing and accounting in environmental engineering.

            YOu can ditch the act. I know you are a moron out to degrade any woman you can because you’re a failure with women and resent that you can’t go around playing Mr. Bossy Big Dick.

          • Oh, sure. Everyone who disagrees with you hates women. Just like everyone who disagrees with Obama hates black people.

            Has it never occurred to you that someone might disagree with you just because you are wrong?

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Not everyone…Just men like you with an addiction to be Numero Uno when you are not remotely Numero Ciento. The worst problem men like you are going to have is how to learn a whole new way of thinking not based on your masculine views. You can’t do that. Your posts prove it.
            Men like you make me laugh. You think going out and doing a rain dance is going to create a downpour. Then, when a hurricane comes your way, you run to women to help you figure out what to do next. Ditch the superiority act. You put your pants on the way all of us do…one leg at a time. Therefore, you are not elite, not more superior nor more intelligent. If there is anything I can’t stand, it’s men with those lofty attitudes of superiority they hope will make them appear to be what they are not..and …never will be: Smarter than women.

          • I get it. I explained what inflation means, and you don’t like anyone who knows anything you don’t know. Your need to feel superior to everyone – especially superior to MEN – has been offended. Your only defense when proven wrong is to launch a personal attack on the “offender”.

            You don’t know me. Based on your posts, I don’t want to know you. Maybe we should just be grateful for that.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            You are a liar. That is not what inflation means and you know it. Keep trying to push push push your weight around. It doesn’t work with me. As stated, I helped formulate all of the information that went into corporate budgets while you were busy on the toilet you consider your “throne.”

            I am superior to you for one reason. Experience you DO NOT have. What about that don’t you get? I know your mentality via your hideously obtuse posts. I also know men like you have a natural bent to control others by insisting you are the only one who Knows it All..think again chump.

          • I’m not lying. Inflation can have several different causes. Individual items can rise in price when demand exceeds supply, just as prices drop when supply exceeds demand.

            But when speaking about the overall economy, it is the devaluing of a currency that causes prices to rise. This occurs when the banks pump more money into the economy. The biggest bank responsible for doing that intentionally is the Federal Reserve (which is not actually a federal entity, but a collection of private banks entrusted with control over the economy).

            Inflation is MEASURED by the increase in some prices. but that is the effect, not the cause of inflation.

            Here is a link to an article that explains the 3 main causes of inflation. The 3rd one is the least understood but it is the one the Fed uses to regulate the economy.


            The article also explains why gas prices fluctuate so much, and why the government doesn’t count gas prices when determining the rate of inflation.

            Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. It is only a lack of specific knowledge and is easily cured. Take the time to learn something new. Anyone can.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Actually, you are missing the basic premise upon which inflation is defined: When prices are gouged to the max, without sufficient proof of exhaustion of supply or elevated levels of demand, that’s INFLATION. You can protest all you like.

            When I worked the budgets for 2 corporations, I saw the figures that go into them. You did not. You can ditch the Mr. Know it All routine.

            Your mentality is the same as the Wall Street Cock Roaches who thrive solely on money and overlook the disasters that occur when they ignore assessed risks they know they shouldn’t.

            I don’t need your silly protestations to the contrary to tell me what is common sense: Inflation is not an element of government. Where in the Constitution is it mentioned? It isn’t.

            Back in the early 1900s, the Robber Barons overshot their risky deals which brought on the Great Depression..This you will, no doubt, blame on government. While both Harding and Hoover, 2 GOP president did collude with the Robber Barons, it was Teddy Roosevelt and the Muckrakers who defined the realities of what business men were doing to the health and economic welfare of this country. Ergo, the institution of regulations on reckless, unscrupulous businesses who grow too powerful and too rich to care who has to clean up after the messes they make of our country’s financial stability.

            I categorically and unanimously disagree with your ideas of blaming government for something I know for a fact has only to do with decisions made in corporate board rooms.

            This your kind of man is too chicken livered to ever admit. I saw how the corporate games are played and it would scare the hell out of lesser humans. Sorry…but when you allow businesses in the US do as they damn well please, they do what Andrew Carnegie’s chief, Henry Fricke did, increase worker hours, decrease their salaries and then charge more for steel. Big Oil is doing this very thing right now.

            They got Bush to dump 50% of the Exxon Valdez spill fine on taxpayers after nearly 25 years of jacking gas prices, claiming it was to pay that spill fine. That was just so much more BS…they never paid one dime until Bush split the fine with taxpayers. Now, Big Oil is losing market share to OPEC and prices are no longer in their control. How’s that for deflation?

          • No sane person (myself included, regardless of what you think you know about me) is claiming corporations are saints. In this crony capitalist environment, government is complicit and banksters are the worst offenders. It was government that bailed out the corrupt banks while the rest of us took the fall.

            Inflation isn’t in the Constitution? Many things government does are not mentioned in the Constitution, and isn’t that part of the problem? The Constitution gives the government control over the money supply, but we have turned that responsibility over to a cabal of private bankers! The Federal Reserve does not have the best interests of you and me in mind. Their target is 2% inflation. If they don’t have any control over it, why do they have a target at all?

            The crash of 2008 was caused by government and banks. The government didn’t take any of the blame and the banks got a slap on the wrist – and billions of dollars – for screwing things up.

            Did the government bail you out? Me neither.

            Our economy is in deep trouble. There is plenty of blame to go around. You can hate multi-national corporations if you want to (I do, too) but spread the blame around to all the places it belongs.

    • ralphkr

      Uh, Eleanore, where can you buy a loaf of bread for $2? Where I live in Washington reasonably fresh bread runs $4 & up except at the expired bread outlet where you can get 3 loaves for $6. Last year it was 3 loaves for $5.29 and 3 years ago it was 5 loaves for $5.29. Of course this is real bread & not that fake Wonderbread copy.

  • 1standlastword

    Here is where I expect and hope Bernie Sanders will tell a grand ole story to completely blow the lid off the CON scheme.

    He will have a national audience and people will certainly identify with his analysis: in fact it might cause Hillary’s anus to pucker a bit

  • DOC

    White people called slaves lazy that is what they do. I worked from 18 to 62 my father worked from 17 to 65 my grand father worked until he was 65 not sure when he started working. I am sure my great grand father worked he was a slave

    • ralphkr

      I have read reports from the good old days when America was still pure (slavery thrived & women had no vote or rights) that stated the African slaves brought a much higher price than the white slaves because A) Africans were much better workers and B) they were untainted by the anti-Christian Catholic cultism of the white slaves.

      • Leftout

        I mentioned that fact to a Black friend and he said you are not supposed to say that. I think it is true though there are many black superior athletes, better developed muscles due to slavery, and the strongest survived, but the generation of slavery did not last long enough to perfect a super breed of Blacks. We are all getting sloppy by doing less vigorous work.

    • Leftout

      I do not of any white pope that have slaves. , but f I had a slave I would prize them… And most of the slaves were … I suppose there were a couple that may have yearnings to leave , but I would let them go. It was unfortunate that their own tribesman sold them off and broke up families. I feel much for that….But all of my employees love my management style . Slave I would think are better and more faithful then wives and cook great collard greens and pork. Can not beat that.

      • DOC

        Well you don’t know any people that had slaves but there was slaves in this country and they was whipped killed sold back and forth the women was raped even one of you president had a sex thing. What you white people don’t get is we black people want to be free. So please don’t tell me how kind you would treat me.

        • Leftout

          I was not part of that era. My family came here after that period. I’ve read about the president , he knew a good loving person….been there. We all love, cry and die, Everyone wants to be free and whitey is not the problem. Asians, Indians, and many who have no way of speaking English properly, they get their asses in gear and become the top of the class.they focus on their goal and are not a. Fretted by side issues till they succeed. There is no Black genetic Flaw, soooooo Blacks are not stupid by birth or bad genes, people of modern day African heritage who come here almost all succeed. They all value education, stick together as families, and become self reliant a favorite example is Prince George’s County, Md. The family structure is horribly missing for many. I know that I could talk you out of your biased views. Do not curse!

  • ChuckfromTacoma

    We have done so much to alleviate poverty since LBJ was POTUS. As a nation, we have lifted millions upon millions of Americans (and many Mexicans and other Latinos) out of poverty.
    I’ll just bet that we have reduced the poverty rate by half. I am so proud. I’ll bet poverty can be completely eliminated in ten more years if we can just spend enough money.

    • Leftout

      Excellent math. The speed limit was increase in our state from 55 to 65 mph. It reduced accidents by 20% . So it goes to reason that increasing the speed even more so would result in no accidents, I agree with you.

      • ralphkr

        I remember that after California dropped the 55 limit on freeways & raised it to 65 or 70 the CHP reported a significant increase in accidents (especially in fatalities). Then they released the break down on where accidents had occurred. Turned out significantly fewer accidents on the freeways with higher limits and the overall increase was due to more accidents on areas that were still limited to 45 or less. By the way, higher speed limits decreases crowding on highways and increases traffic load capability.

        • Leftout

          Thanks for confirming. It is amazing how these laws are passed due to emotion of perceived safety.

        • Independent1

          I haven’t verified this fact, but my sense is that it’s the Republican led states, especially out west like Wyoming, Montana, etc. that have implemented and now have the higher speed limits in the country; which may well be why it’s also Republican led states that have significantly higher fatal accident rates per 100,000 population; even though red states generally have far less population densities than do blue states.

          In fact, of the 27 states that have auto fatality rates above the national average of 10.3 fatalities per 100,000 population, at least 24 of them had a Republican governor and the majority also had a Republican legislature for a number of years prior to 2013 when these statistics which show that Wyoming has almost triple the national average highway fatalities:

          State/Fatalities per 100 million miles driven – 2013

          ——-NATIONAL AVERAGE 10.3

          • ralphkr

            I grew up in one of the Republican states (they were so Republican that they considered Nixon and Goldwater as closet Commies) that did not have a DL until after Korea. Your folks decided when you could drive which explains how I was able to drive into town on errands when I was 13. The funniest thing was that every time there was a bad accident the local editor always posted a box in the article stating “South Dakota is the only state without a Drivers License Law” but when you read the article the person causing the accident (usually single car) was from out of state. A good reason for that was the fact that you could see the highway straight as an arrow to the horizon and you would suddenly come upon a series of 20 mph curves as the highway would follow the oxcart trail left down the hill, right across the vale, right up the hill, and left at the top of the hill right in line from where you were looking before the dip. The 18 foot wide main highways with raised edges that would throw you into oncoming lane were not much of a safety aid either.

          • Independent1

            Interesting! Maybe that explains one of the reasons why Texas has been often rated as having one of the 10 worst highways in the nation (along with a lot of other worst in the nation ratings)
            even though its a southern state with wide open spaces and a climate where the winter doesn’t destroy roads like here in Maine. Maybe some of those Texas highways that look so straight and flat, actually at points start following the trails cowboys used to drive their herds of cattle which may suddenly not have been straight. Or maybe because being so flat through nothingness, that drivers fall asleep from the perception that they don’t have to constantly pay attention to where they’re going.

          • charleo1

            I like that! How Republican were they? Well. They were such Republicans, that Nixon, and Goldwater were considered closet Commies. That is so true!

          • Another factor conveniently ignored is the highway death rate is higher in states where more people drive. It’s lower in states where more people rely on public transportation. Gee, more miles driven = more accidents. Who woulda thunk it! LOL

          • ralphkr

            It depends upon what you mean by death rate, Paul Anthony. An area with high density and the majority of all travel is on public transit the death rate per 100K population will be low but the death rate per 100K miles traveled in private vehicles shall be high or even per in all modes of transportation combined since only very short distances are traveled (Many people, few miles traveled). On the other hand, if you look at sparsely populated states where travel is measures in hours or hundreds of miles the death rate per 100K people shall be high but rate per 100K miles shall be lower (Few people, many miles traveled).

          • Exactly. There is a saying, “statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics”. Using deaths per 100K population is a way to use real statistics to skew the results in favor of the desired outcome – without actually lying.

          • Leftout

            NJ is a blue state with red people in their hearts.

        • Independent1

          I forgot to mention that I’m not certain all of it is due to speed – I think a lot of why Republican led states lead the nation in highway fatalities, is the same reason as to why red states lead the nation in violence, lousy dangerous places to live, and actually being considered to be miserable places to live, is because the GOP’s notion that less government and regulations is better and makes life easier – is just like trickle-down economics – categorically wrong!!

          Constantly cutting budgets and reducing the emphasis on police protection, fire protection and other efforts to keep a population safe; along with reducing regulations that allow less than trustworthy people to drive, or to operate businesses in a safe, non polluting way; or to not provide the medical care people need to keep healthy and on and on; adds to why Red States are slowly becoming nothing more than their own quasi 3rd world nations with life expectancies worse than many 3rd world nations; and violence levels akin to places like Somalia; and the worst infant and maternal mortality rates on the planet – even worse than many 3rd world nations.

  • Whatmeworry

    Typical Klussman. Even when “real world examples” prove his school boy theories as nothing more than nonsense. RI recently forced those on food stamps to do 20 hours a month of community service. The results?? 80% dropped off the roles

    • MichelleRose3

      Prove it. Cite official governmental stats (with links, please, and not to some far-right webpage dedicated to the overthrow of government!) and display cause and effect by demonstrating that “A” leads to “B.”

      Let’s see the proof. Not your opinion or some made-up story that you think we should accept because you purport to “speak from authority.” WHOSE authority? Yours? Sorry, don’t recognize it. You’re just another anonymous troll on the Net, trying to plant another lie and hoping no one will notice that you have no facts to back it up. Rhode Island recently dropped 80% of their food stamp recipients because those recipients “refused” to do community service? Prove it!

      BTW, how much do you make as a shill for the fascists? (That would be your Republican masters who pay you to do this sort of thing based on the number of clicks and responses you receive for your drivel) I do hope it adequately supplements your trust fund, otherwise you might actually have to work for a living. Dividends have a nasty habit of decreasing when left to the tender mercies of Wall Street predators, even if your daddy bribed a senator or two.

      • I made it up, and don’t have to prove nuttin. I may be ignorant, but im not a moron

        • Leftout

          Only Moslems are mandated to lie if it serves the cause, there Mohammed. You are excused.

          • Daniel Max Ketter

            After reading his rants, I would say he is both an idiot and a moron.

    • Daniel Max Ketter

      Heck, I lived on food stamps for many years, until a friend of mine with the UAW got me my data entry desk clerk job. Every person on food stamps is a hardship and it is up to our middle and wealthy classes to support them.

  • Typical Klussman. Even when “real world examples” prove his school boy
    theories as making sense. RI recently forced those on food
    stamps to do 20 hours a month of slavery service. The results?? 80%
    dropped dead of exhaustion

  • Allan Richardson

    Most of these people who are against helping the poor, and in favor of punishing them for being poor (no matter WHOSE fault it is), CLAIM to be “Christians” and claim to be basing their opinions on the Bible. Reading Matthew 25, and considering that they call anything which helps the poor “socialism,” I can only say that IF their theology is true, they may have to explain themselves someday to COMRADE Jesus!

    • Leftout

      Genesis once said ‘we were placed here to work it and keep it, ‘
      And of course ” if anyone not wiling to work, let him not eat., however if you harvest do not harvest all, but leave some behind for the poor….that is specifically said, that which is left behind is not just GIVEN to the poor, but is left for the poor to gather for themselves. What could be more fair. Anyone have a better suggestion. This not Christian it is human .

      • charleo1

        A better suggestion? Sure, that’s why the miracle of feeding the multitudes was included. I guess they simply forgot to include the part where Jesus demanded they all tote something, or grind something up before receiving the food? The entire premise of Christianity is based on God’s giving. Never by our acts making any of us deserving. But only by His grace do we receive. Plainly stated was God’s assurance, “Ask and ye shall receive.” Certainly not work, and you’ll get whatever the free market says you’re worth. Or, starve, if the invisible hand that’s now generously greasing my palm, says so. A better suggestion is that we as his Children should remember His words as to follow His admonition of treating others in all matters, as we would have them treat us. “That Thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.” All that is what is now most glaringly missing in the Religious Right’s embrace of corporatism’s fealty to greed, self interest, and it’s unadulterated prostration to the Godless alter of the bottom line. Then to turn about, and attempt to moralize against, and look down on the poor, single them out for scorn, and condemnation. Is all a bit much, and frankly a sickness of the soul. And what price do they suppose Jesus would charge to heal them, if they be too poor in spirit to pay for their salvation?

        • Leftout

          Most religions aand Religious people on both sides place charity above loyalty to party or corporate greed , that is a stretch to say the right or the left is non religious , most people just shut up…give to Caesars that which is his and give to God which is due Him. Both left and right moralize against each other, it has been fair game since Gentiles and Jews of antiquity. No religious person, God fearin’ ever would refuse to help another. Even Jesus got pissed off at Peter et al. after he kept trying to heal but had nothing to show for it, Jesus said get your butt moving and try harder. And Peter succeeded. Most of the poor have been aided by all of us, but some are without a doubt , milking the cow dry. Many friends are wealthy know better and give rather generously, with out ostentatious bragging. There are others that may be scoundrels .

          • charleo1

            Most, “religious people,” will tell you they place charity over corporate greed. But only the ones that support politicians that
            lionize Darwinian atheists such as Ayn Rand, and point out the few that are, “milking the cow dry,” in order to punish the vast majority of the truly needy, are betraying the Christian ethos. Personally, I am not usually one to quote the Bible in support of, or in opposition to, what is public policy. Only that there is good policy, and bad policy. I oppose the Right on policy. But I especially take exception to their cloaking it in a false Biblical narrative.

          • Leftout

            You are saying that those on the right are evangelical zealots and yet they oppose Christian values of charity. That does not fit. Certainly many lefties are not bent on religion nor preserving any of its so called traditional values. I believe that the policy of self reliance is Misconstrued as a war against the poor. There is a lot of fraud in entitlement programs. In Boston there were >20k people receiving assistance checks or deposits. There were no addresses with these accounts, it is still under investigation. I’ve seen it myself, NYC , friends of inside clerical admin of subsidy programs signing up any one they can find to keep the system going. It was sickening, and it is tolerated , closed eyes by city officials. So much corruption, even Jesus would turn tables here. Most people on both sides are 90% on the side of helping truly indigent. To blame this on a political party is not proper, self reliance should not be demonized. Very few people need so much assistance. It divides families. Males get subsidies and the female partner also get subsidies,…it is more advantageous to be separate. Our system is set up to appease. So I say.

          • charleo1

            What I’m saying is, the Evangelical movement in particular, has been willing to trade many of the core values of Christianity, in order to support the antithetical tenets of of Capitalism being bandied about by such shills as inhabit the so called, “family values,” Conservative Right. Concerning themselves far more often over the comparatively minor issues of abortion, aversion to contraception, and or, same sex marriage. Than making sure the largest, and fastest growing group of our Nation’s truly poor, our children. Are fed, have shelter, decent clothes, and a quality education. So there is no misconstruing an issue of self reliance here. But, an abdication of principle. When a politician can come to Bob Jones, or Liberty University, and call Barack Obama, “The Food Stamp President.” At a time of great recession. In the face of unprecedented rises in poverty among the working poor. To applaud cuts in early childhood education, or childcare, and the expansion of healthcare. On the grounds that doing so increases deficits, and might threaten further tax cuts for wealthy. The tables are attempting to be turned alright. But it’s not Jesus that is doing the turning. It’s a sold out, and politicized apostate doctrine that’s to blame. The need is undeniable, although many do deny it. For the rest, other excuses are required to turn fundamental Christian principles on their head, and go along with the horrible situation the very unChristian, monied elitists would create. So, the system is inefficient, wasteful, and promotes laziness, they harp. A lot of the info like, “very few people need so much.” A easily disproven lie, they embrace without question, based on anecdotal memes. First, that they don’t need, and second, that they receive so much. That some 95% of all public assistance dollars being spent, goes to families, mostly single Mothers with children. Not able bodied beach bums. It doesn’t matter. That one in three children under the age of 5, will go to bed hungry, here in the wealthiest country in the World. For the militant Christian Right, all that misery of innocents doesn’t matter either. And so, the entire regimen of public assistance is uniformly declared a failure. And worse, they suggest no viable alternatives to replace it, or improve it. Proof of creeping Socialism, they say. And it’s Godless Leftist proponents, that have America going to Hell in a hand basket. And the heartless radicalism of the Evangelicals is having a cancerous effect on the entirety of Christendom in the U.S. As the numbers among the youth identifying themselves with any organized religion continues to fall. As one televangelist after the next is embroiled in yet another hypocrisy, and greed soaked scandal. A more politics emanates from the pulpit than prophecy. One currently is pumping his flock for donations to buy a private jet he says he must have to, “spread the word.” But they all have their game. This on the heels of prostitutes, ponzi schemed theme parks, and crack fueled liaisons with male hookers. My characterizations of ideologue Evangelical shills, preaching false Christian doctrine, doesn’t fit? I was raised on that Old Time Religion. In a time when Jimmy Swaggart, and Oral Roberts were prostalizing from the back of flat bed trailers they pulled around to small towns across the South with old jalopies. And talked about the hard grinding poverty of the working poor. Preached from the New Testament, not the Old. And seldom failed to mention the chances of a rich man ever making it past St. Peter. And called on Christians to follow Christ’s example, and God’s commandment, of accepting the responsibilities of being their brother’s keeper.

          • Leftout

            I agree and can say that the evangelical, movement,” televangelism” is a bit hypocritical, in that it reaps in what others sow. Other religions all proselytize to one degree or another. Jews do not and of course Moslems only give you an ultimatum. Catholics just want to make you feel guilty and afraid that you may not get to heaven. Many large regions do operate for the needy and themselves as well.

            I am hard nosed on laggards because I have seen systematized ripping off of the system.
            I am in favor of free healthcare for everyone paid for from neutral , non political General funds, revenues with a SSN type of ” paid into …by everyone “, retirement pkg.. And a fair working wage that keeps everyone above poverty….That wage has not yet been determined.
            These topics should be out of the political arena. We have the money for this with the so called debt / deficit can be internalized as a part of doing business. political fingerpointing or animosity. .

          • charleo1

            I’m pleasantly surprised. We mostly agree on religion. I’m not particularly religious. We agree on a system of universal health access, and a retirement package, paid for from an apolitical generally funded source. And you intelligently use the words fair, and wages in the same sentence. All things that make you a flaming Liberal in most Right Wing circles. As I’m pretty sure you’re aware. Yet it is certainly refreshing to hear sanity with a bent toward balance, and responsibility, and away from partisan animosity. So, thank you. No, on second thought, thank you very much.

          • Leftout

            Well Charley, I feel very big headed. I am outrageously right wing, and will protect the U.S. Founding Principles that SHOULD made us great. I would defend you with the last available round left in my chamber, Sir.

      • It becomes painfully obvious with each passing day that too many Christians are hampered by an inability to read the deeper implications of what is written in the Bible or take the time to ponder and reflect on the “inner meanings” of what is exposed on the page.(Many Muslims have a similar problem when it comes to reading the verses in the Qur’an).
        For example, the passage in Genesis as cited refers to those who are able-bodied and are of the age to work and without neglecting one’s educational needs(think children).
        But, since too many Christians like to re-frame the counsels in the Bible of “yester-centuries” in terms of modern-day partisan-political balderdash, they miss entirely the spirit and intent behind the Bible.
        Little wonder, then, that they are confused about what it means to be Christian—a huge riddle that perplexes them nowadays.

        • jkmckay

          Jesus was NOT speaking to the government, he was speaking to each one of us. If you read Paul’s letters it is abundantly clear that the “church” is to take care of those members in need, with guidelines attached. If you think it is the responsibility of government to “take care of us”, you are the one who is sadly mistaken…

          • Justin Napolitano

            Do not forget that the church was the government for a long time.

    • jkmckay

      It is NOT the responsibility of the government to use tax money for programs for the poor, it is not constitutional. I am a Christian and the responsibility to aid the poor belongs to the family and the church. No Christian I know is in favor of “punishing the poor”. Billions of taxpayer dollars have been misappropriated by our representatives in “the war on poverty” and as anyone can see, the results of these programs have been complete and utter failures…

      • Justin Napolitano

        You can not be a Christian and believe the bullshi& you just wrote.
        It is the job of government to help those that can not help themselves. It is the job of government to uphold the rights of the minority over the wants of the majority.
        As for the church, we have separation of church and state and you would want the poor to bow down to your religion.
        Screw your religion, people should be able to live on their own and not need help from your church. Governments job is to do what it takes to rise the poor up not push them further down.

        • jkmckay

          I am a Christian and it is NOT the job of government to help those that can not help themselves, it is the responsibility of the family or church or charitable organizations. I want nobody to “bow to my religion”. Show me in the Constitution where it is the job of government to “rise the poor up”. If people should be able to “live on their own and not need help from…church” then they should also not need help from government, which is me and every other taxpayer. Where does it stop, Justin? You are a bitter, clueless person who probably needs to grow up and face reality…

          • Justin Napolitano

            How about the first paragraph of the Constitution for proof that the government is supposed to do certain things.
            We the people in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, …..
            and so on shows that the general welfare is a part of the constitution.
            No where does it say one thing about religion except to point out the the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting free exercise thereof.
            People should not have to kiss the as& of some religion to get help nor should they have to believe in any religion at all.
            Why is it that you religious fanatics feel you have to impose your religious on all of us. In fact religious beliefs are one of the reasons that middle east is in constant conflict.
            People should be able to stand on their own, with the help of the government, and not need some religious organizations help. If you want to help, fine, but keep your religion to yourself.

          • jkmckay

            It says promote the “general” welfare, NOT PROMOTE WELFARE. Why do you keep making it about religion? I’m not going to go into it again, you are just another liberal that cannot be reasoned with…

          • Justin Napolitano

            Here is a definition of “general”.

            affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread.

            What part of that do you not i=understand?

          • jkmckay

            We, the people, are the “government”. The “government” is not your mommy, daddy or nanny. In your view, the “government” should take care of all of our needs. That is not the general welfare. If you want the “government” to take care of all of our needs, move to China, Cuba or some other “worker’s paradise” and tell me how that works out for you. I have no problem helping people in need, neither do my family, friends or church; I do have a problem with “government” doing it, end of story…

          • Justin Napolitano

            We the people is ls not limited to big business, selfish people like yourself, or those that have enjoyed the benefits of this country and have a serious problem giving back?
            I’ll bet you think you have accomplished everything in life on your own and don’t credit anyone or anything in helping you.
            What I really think about you is: You are a Christian only when you can shoot off your mouth about how much you care about those that have not been as fortunate as you while you badmouth the same people as being lazy, unmotivated, and otherwise scum.
            You will not live forever so you can explain your stupid philosophy to the almighty.

          • jkmckay

            “…selfish people like myself”? Once again, you know nothing about me. You call me selfish because I don’t want “the government” taking my money (and all other taxpayer money) and using it for purposes “they” determine; I give my money and my time on my own and should not be “forced” into giving money to “government programs” like Planned Parenthood, for example. I really could care less about what you think I’ve accomplished or how I’ve accomplished it, but your imbecilic and idiotic “thoughts” about what I think about other people are also moronic, quite fitting of a person that expects “government” to take care of everything they want or desire, you know, someone just like you, you miserable little cretin…

          • Justin Napolitano

            Why don’t you just go live in a hole somewhere where you don’t have to care about anyone but yourself. We either live as a civilization or we don’t. You are indeed a GD selfish Coc&&uker
            Who thinks that government is unnecessary and that you know what is good for everyone. Too bad as-wipe, you have to pay taxes whether you kike it or not. As for planned parenthood, they do more good in this country for women than you could do if you lived a million years.
            Enough debating with a selfish, stupid, moron. Take your money and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
            Lastly, dickhead, this country is a Republic and we elect people to represent all of us not just selfish self centered fools like yourself.

          • jkmckay

            I don’t need government or a childish puke like you to tell me how to live my life. You support planned parenthood, you are a murderer just as much as they are. They’ve had a big part in slaughtering over 60 MILLION innocent babies in the baby’s own mother’s womb, do you realize that? I want my representative to live by the Constitution, that’s it. You’re just another mentally unbalanced liberal dipshit that has his hand out all the time, looking for another handout.

      • LADDIED

        You are a Christian in name only. You waste a lot of time praying to God to save your worthless soul, because you know you are going to hell. God will not save you. When did you ever do anything to help someone less fortunate then you. Penny’s are given to the poor, while the wealthy are all lined up at the trough. The money that is given to the poor is a subsidy the wealthy corporations. The military sucks up over 6oo billion a year and pays our soldiers so little that their families are on public assistance. They have steadfastly insisted on not being accountable for the money they spend. We have 10 times as high a percentage of our population in prison as any other nation on earth. This is another big business. We have private prisons that are real money makers and the gov. guarantees to keep them filled. We waste our money on useless cops that spend their time handing out nuisance tickets to produce revenue. If you ever need help do not bother to call them.
        For the last 50 years we have spent 100 billion a year on the war on drugs, and have not prevented one person from getting drugs if they wanted them. We have however made organized crime so wealthy they can buy law enforcement, government, and buy into legitimate business, where they bring their business ethics with them. Why do you think so many of our large companies are so corrupt today.
        God help us though if we give a person who has been victimized by this system a helping hand.
        You should be stripped of all your assets, blinded and condemned to spend the rest of your life with a tin cup, begging in the street.

        • jkmckay

          You are one pathetic person, Laddied. You know nothing of my personal life and I doubt you even know what a church is. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to take money from someone who has earned it and give it to someone else or something else of their choosing, and that is exactly what government does through miserable programs liberals have instituted over the years. People are in prison because they are criminals; the police do an incredible job protecting the law-abiding citizens of this country. The government of the United States has appropriated and redistributed over $22 TRILLION dollars since 1965 on the war on poverty alone and I dare you to say it’s been effective in any way. You are a typical liberal who wants the productive punished and me “stripped of all my assets, blinded and condemned to…begging in the street” because I disagree with your thievery and your idiotic, imbecilic ideas, you coward…

          • SteveD

            $22 trillion in spending is exactly equal to $22 trillion in INCOME. That income has been spent, saved or invested into the economy over and over and over again since 1965.It’s called an economic STIMULUS. Perhaps you best partake in a basic economics course rather than blow hot air on an internet blog site. Oh, by the way, taxes in one form or another have been part of civilization for over 6,000 years.Grow up, you self-proclaimed victim. NO ONE feels sorry for you. (Now you can revert to calling me names-you know, the really cliched “hateful” ones like liberal/socialist/communist/idiot. I know that is all you’ve got, you poor little self-proclaimed victim.)

          • jkmckay

            “It’s called an economic STIMULUS.” OK, Barack, I now know it’s you posting on here, not SteveD! Thanks, “Mr. Economic Genius” SteveD for recommending the economics course, as we all see your wisdom if you think the $22 TRILLION DOLLARS and all of Hussein Obama’s “stimulus” did anything to “stimulate” anything with the exception of lining some criminals’ pockets. I have no problem with paying taxes, just the way they are used by people like you who think they know better than the Constitution…

          • SteveD

            ‘A 2008 poll of 1,400 Americans by the Cornell Survey Research Institute found that when people were asked whether they had “ever used a government social program,” 57 percent said they had not. Respondents were then asked whether they had availed themselves of any of 21 different federal policies, including Social Security, unemployment insurance, the home-mortgage-interest deduction and student loans. It turned out that 94 percent of those who had denied using programs had benefited from at least one; the average respondent had used four. (Oops! liberal rag, take with giant grains of salt.) Really strong odds jkmckay you are a big-time 94%er.

        • Justin Napolitano

          That is a great post, thanks.

  • FireBaron

    Hmm. Blaming the poor for being poor. Of course, if there were real jobs near where they lived, they could work those and not be poor. Unfortunately, the Vulture Capitalists in their onrush for higher profits closed the US based factories and moved the same jobs that the parents and grandparents of the poor used to work in over to China, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.
    Sorry, folks, but a $10.00/hour job at Wal-Mart or McD is not the same as employment in a factory, with health care, retirement, vacation and other benefits.
    And considering many construction firms would rather hire someone with “questionable” employment credentials for day labor jobs, instead of calling the local Union Hall, that also leads not only to lack of work for locals, but no incentives for their kids to follow their parent’s footsteps.
    So, make the real employment opportunities available and the “poor” will be able to take care of themselves. Make those same employment opportunities available and you will see more stable family environments. Make those same stable family environments happen and you will see their children more interested in their education. Make those kids want to learn more, and they will seek better jobs.
    That’s what happened when my father’s generation came back from WW2. Where are the incentives these days?

  • One is forced to stop and reflect on what afflicts this man’s soul and thinking process. That people choose to elect such mentally-challenged politicians speaks volumes about the electorates’ condition.

  • You have them pegged right about their desire to create a theocratic society. As for the poor, their policy is simple: They want them to starve to death, preferably before 2016 so they can’t vote another Democrat for POTUS.

  • Robert Novak

    Poverty rate hasn’t change dramatically in 50 years regardless
    how much money we spend. Our education of the poor hasn’t seen any performance improvement
    if anything it’s gone down. We now deal with multi-generational poverty larger than
    ever, this should tell everyone somethings wrong

    Poverty has gotten better for the recipients, more costly
    housing, and more costly technology (cell phones) Link cards, more food choices,
    more costly health care, much more costly education but poverty stays the same

    50 years and nothing changes, so yes it’s time to try
    something different

    All new programs should only be about getting out of
    poverty, mandatory high school graduation, mandatory job training, 12 hour
    daycare ( if you’re not working or training) no benefits , drug testing for any
    benefits, aid to dependent children capped at 2 children, 2nd generation
    poverty reduces 1st generations benefits , Free 2 year college and
    the list can go on, poverty should not be tolerated are only goal should be no poverty
    if the program doesn’t head towards that then it should be stopped

  • Justin Napolitano

    Paul Ryan turns my stomach. Every time I see his face I am reminded what a hypocrite he is. He enjoyed Social Security payments, as a child, because his father died.
    Personally, I wish he would just go away. He and the despicable Romney can go to hades.


      Life is simple. Unfortunately so are many Americans. The aid programs are mostly a subsidy to big business, so they do not have to pay their employees a living wage. No person who works full time should have to turn to the government to pay for his food and medical care.
      The earned income credit is also a subsidy to big business so they do not have to pay a living wage.
      We do not need to increase aid to the poor, except for the disabled and elderly who are not able to work.
      We need to pay these people a higher wage so they can pay their own expenses. The worker gets a smaller percentage of the profits then ever before in our history. If we want to create jobs, simply cut the work week to 32 hours with out lowering the weekly wage. Cut the salaries of the executives to 10 times the workers. Cut our all the ridiculous perks like private jets, and other expensive perks the execs enjoy.
      This would immediately create 20% more jobs. The additional incomes would allow 20% more people to buy goods and services, which would create more wealth and more tax revenue for the government.
      This would create a demand for employees that would drive up wages, creating more demand for goods and services. The economy would boom.
      Put the employers who hire illegals in jail and fine them heavily. When they stop hiring, the illegals will go home at no expense to our taxpayers.
      For God sake stop all the welfare for the rich and for big business. You need to realize that for every dollar we give the poor, we give 10 to the wealthy. They get wealthy on the backs of hard working middle class citizens.

      • Buffalo Bill

        You’re talking about demand-side economics. Republicans don’t believe in demand-side economics.

  • booker25

    Biggest takers of welfare?? Corporations. Stop that and this nation would be a lot better off. Make companies pay a living wage and people would be a lot better off.

  • Buffalo Bill

    Over the years I have asked on the blogs quite a few conservatives what percentage of the poor they believe choose to be poor. Most of the time a conservative will not state a percentage in his/her first reply. When I insist on a percentage those who do reply usually say 80% or 90%.