What job in America offers 10 weeks summer vacation, 20 sick days thru the year, fully funded with cola protection early (52) retirement, excellent holiday benefits, fully paid excellent health benefits, above to far above local median wages, and no proof of accomplishment? TEACHING IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS Enough said !!! What a bunch of crybabies. As the world passes us in educational standards, we can only become a worse and worse third world country, due primarily to a crappy educational system, where the goal is to enrich the coffers of it’s employees, and the customer be damned. Our current educational system is so bad the average person now sees the merits of entitlements as a way of life. We have the printing press, that’s all that seems to matter. The squeaky wheels have shouted over the beast of burden, who has been too busy working. Make this November, The NOVEMBER TO REMEMBER. Let the squeaky wheels shout into a vacuum chamber.
What job gives you 239 days off, pays you to make repetitious TV appearances, do fundraising, pays for their staff and their expenses, pays them between 174,000 to 223,500 annually, plus excellent heal benefits and a pension, shuts down the government and makes drastic cuts to Education – and accomplishes Nothing. Yes you are right the do nothing CONGRESS.
I haven’t noticed education cuts, only a slowing of the rate of increase. We need education cuts.
Yes, we can certainly see where you might believe that education is silly. Did you ever try using soap? Just wondering.
I see education failed for you.
So you claim. Did anyone in your trailer park ever earn a degree? Perhaps your failure to learn was all Obama’s fault. You should have at least tried using soap — just to see if it might help.
He can join the DDs!
I respectfully disagree. We need to invest in our children who are our future. We need to increase education budgets. Since not all students will be inclined to further their academic education, we need to bring back – auto shop, wood shop, mechanical drawing, computer classes, music etc. Some students will excel more in those areas and can develop a good career from these programs.
Ron Paul had the right idea, quit be the world policemen, start investing here. Yes, I agree technology trades have been grossly overlooked, it’s those trades that maintain us as a nation, no doubt there at all. We have too many lawyers, let’s start with tort reform, take it from there. But we must address excessive union demands as well., since tradesmen form unions, The nice thing about a trade is that if unsatisfied with your current wage, you can easily strike out on your own with your own business.
We have just proven people with opposing political views can find common ground when we discuss and not name call or scream in caps. Thank you for a respectful discussion.
You belong on a school board to whip some common sense into the airheads I have found there. So very true, not everyone is academically inclined, doing better as a tradesperson. Probably a lack of trades skills is hurting us in international trade. But the worst damage is probably done from a lack of a work ethic; tradesmen defy that thought, though.
You are getting there, and other mental hope would help the kids that are being raised by Oh well, losers
But, there should be tests of the success or failure of educational programs. Without tests, the public has no information on the effectiveness of the system.
One child left behind…..uh-oh, let’s lower the standards, that child must graduate , so we can make the program appear a success. Yippeeyahoo, next year, more funds for that wonderfully successful program. What a colossal failure. Welcome to the world of the printing press. I meet adults who cannot make change for a twenty dollar bill from a purchase. I know people with degrees who cannot read a map. WHO CANNOT PUT A GAS CAP ON A CAR. EVEN THE MOST ELEMENTARY OF CHORES ARE BEYOND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE PROGRAM SUCCESSES.
Yeah, sure, we can really afford education cuts. When the better teachers are leaving in droves because they can do better with less stress in the private sector, and the bad ones can’t even get fired because idiots like you don’t have any idea how bad they are. Maybe when the Republican ideas about education reform actually start raising the level of education in this country you can say something that people will listen to. “No Child Left Behind” failed in Texas and was dropped like a hot potato just months after W was inaugurated. Too bad the Republicans in Congress don’t have enough sense to do the same nationally. Our national ranking compared to rest of the world puts us well out of the top ten, and just barely into the top quarter. No wonder our work force can’t compete with most of the rest of industrialized world. Attend your local school board meeting and see what issues are discussed – it might open your eyes.
No child left behind is a colossal failure. Not as a program, but in intended results being rather lame compared to the grandeur-oriented publicity. Another phony gov program, I really think the goal is to dumb our kids down, thank goodness for home schooling. I can see budding genius out of the public system failing. It will let the dead wood live a life of poverty or imprisonment, taking them out of the mainstream, letting them impede each other in their quest for whatever it is they are capable of doing…..hopefully, something constructive and meaningful. I have a brother who retired from teaching Building Construction Occupations. His students who were serious, are now successful contractors, etc. Some kids have it, some don’t. I wouldn’t blame it on a depleted gene pool, but rather family strength. And look at the libs in government who are hell-bent on family destruction…..and we actually pay these people? Hard to believe.
Libs for the past century have done everything possible to reverse the ill effects of conservative social, economic, and foreign policies. Hoover’s failed economic policies precipitated the Great Depression. George W Bush REPEATED the same policies and, surprise, surprise, they led to the same result. Not wishing to insult your intelligence, but that is pretty much the definition of stupidity – doing something and failing at it then doing it again, expecting a different outcome. Since the 1930s, Republicans have tried the same policies many times, with the same result, every time. Since Hoover, every Republican president has presided over a recession resulting from the failed economic policies that reached their epitome under Reagan.
Hoover had a failed attempt at starting social security, and he inherited an overheated stock market, just as we have today. We are at a precipice , the market could go at any time. The fed can’t fix it this time. Boom and bust cycles seem inherent in capitalism, we need to have natural interest rate variations to level things out, but the current fed is doing a decent job at keeping the country going, but gov spending is killing us all with excessive spying, loss of privacy, business regs, over abundance of local ordnances, etc. The purpose of ordnances is to justify higher and higher property taxes, to keep paying higher and higher teacher pay.
Carter’s inflation from oil shock and loss of a gold-backed currency was corrected by Reagan and Volcker, and with high enough interest rates, capitalism maintains itself pretty well……but gov intrusion is proving extremely detrimental to most business. My view of banks today is that they are accumulating vast cash reserves to accommodate the next great wave of inflation, probably about 2 1/2 to 3 years away. Before that we will probably have some deflation to shake out the working man. It’s a shame. but in reality, those who are not over-extended in credit will survive well, those who suffer from contemporary yuppyism will be shook out. We are as a nation becoming more conservative, which I view as good.
You appear to be reasonable as your responses are based upon well-thought out examination of various already existing policies. Unfortunately, the policies you seem so fond of have failed, and much of your history is based upon the fallacies fed to us by Republicans over the past forty years.
Dumb remark. Looks like you failed at a lot of things and never got over it.
Golly gee whiz! You paint such a glowing picture of public school teaching! No wonder so many people are flocking to get teaching jobs all over the USA.
… What? ….They’re not?? You mean people aren’t jumping at the chance to work much more than 40 hours a week, while forced to hold two or more jobs just a make the bare minimum, after years of college?
Your statements are deceptive when compared to reality. Here we have long lists of people even as substitutes. Who are you trying to fool? You have more garbage statements from teacher-union-mentality.
You are a very good example of why we should never have abandoned corporal punishment in primary schools. Try being nice to you goobers and just look what happens.
Your incredible intellectual capacity intimidates me, I will go into a corner in time out.
I’m happy to see that you’ve learned your lesson.
Olderwitalzheimers, I respectfully ask you to return to reality.
My mother was a teacher for 35 years. Her free time and vacations were spent in continuing education and part time work to support herself and her vocation. She had every contagion that pass through the area brought in by her charges. And I shan’t even start on the parents behavior.
Meanwhile, our state set up a lottery with all proceeds going to the schools. For ever dollar taken in, the state removed funding to match. Four time the state supreme court found state funding illegal under our constitution. Nothing changed. Funds have been cut from both federal and state during this recession and continue. In addition, money was side tracked though vouchers to for profit schools that have proven to be worse then public schools.
Yeah, we need reform.
Sounds like you live in Florida.
The consensus I have read on private for-profit schools are that they are superior to public schools. Testings have confirmed this. By your mother having continuing education, she also received pay raises to teach the same subjects, under the phony contention that she being willing to be a student longer herself, absolutely makes her a better teacher. It’s a falsehood, that does not hold true in the majority of cases I have witnessed. I see no real future in public education. College even worse, communists abound while drugs flow, it’s pathetic, really. College should be a genuine learning experience pertaining to the vocational subject, not blandly covering subjects impertinent to degreed success.
Charter schools here have been proven to rarely surpass public schools and by a great preponderance inferior. Not to say all for profit schools are bad, just near every one that takes vouchers.
Your contention that being a student makes you a better teacher is preposterous, as is your conjecture that is even the point.
You ideas of college are strange and abhorrent to a well rounded, educated society
The justification of higher pay simply for having been a student a little longer, is, I agree, preposterous. Please re-read my blog. And College has become the great stomping ground for socialist and communist philosophy. Your opinions are that of an insecure clinging-to-the-union, teacher.
Excellent post. Amazing how some people who have no experience on a topic put themselves off as experts.
The vast majority of teachers in this country earn every penny they are paid. In a very simple way, our future depends on them, directly. We entrust our children to a group of people we won’t even pay as much as we do a plumber, and expect them to build the next generation’s leaders. The vast majority of school districts in 2008 (remember the Recession?) lost at least 15% of their teachers (many lost much more), and that lost ground has still to be made up. Things were improving with the reduction in class sizes, especially among the lower grades. Those gains have essentially been lost due to the need to increase class sizes because of the paucity of teachers. Our failure to recognize the value in programs such as Head Start WILL cause problems down the road, beginning with failure rates, and escalating into crime rates. A child who is NOT adequately prepared for 1st grade is far more likely to become a negative statistic than one who is given the benefit of a head start.
You have no clue. I challenge you to teach in public schools. I wouldn’t do it.
Furthermore, the problem is not our teachers, it is in our support of education and the value we as a society place on it. If we paid half as much attention to promoting education as we do to idolizing football players and the Kardashians we would not have a problem.
Look at the clothing worn by kids today bought by their parents. Khardashian to the Nth degree. I agree parents are a major problem. We have become too social. A serious true depression where kids could wear used clothing from salvation army store would re-establish the worth of education and DISCIPLINE as well. The worst problem today in education is discipline. Expensive clothes on kids is a terrible mistake, it encourages the ability to squander as a right, leading to unmanageable debt when older. A depression would do a world of good. People who defeat their debt should be rewarded. Those who simply wish to excuse themselves from the debt must be punished, by no longer being able to walk away from it. I am not suggesting debtor prison, but rather debt retention. Must also be coupled with unquestionable liable debt in the first place, though.
Yes, I agree. We should not have stopped your teachers from spanking you. After all, God put redneck goobers here for that very purpose.
please see my last response to your tired remarks.
If we took every one of your remarks, and did exactly the opposite, we’d be in great shape. Your comments about colleges being “the great stomping ground for socialist and communist philosophy” is especially telling, and damning. Are you implying that everyone with an MBA is a Socialist or Communist? A very odd observation, to say the least.
You obviously were cheated out of a decent education, more likely than not as a result of being closed-minded in the extreme. Your one saving grace is that you serve as an excellent example of misguided intellect. “Hey kids, … see that guy? Don’t be like him.”
The MBA profile is that which requires great sums of capital to assure the first rule can be applied “pay yourself first”. This results in business owned by individuals which can never be incubated into viable innovative entities; the lack of these innovators results in the continuation of ” what is becomes what ought”. Small wonder the Chinese are killing us with new technology. We have some brilliant people educated at our universities, mostly technological studies. But our business approach is to reward all equally, over-reward a few, and simply support the status quo.
You champion your philosophy and certainly have the right to do so. Republic law and free enterprise advocates, and freedom fighters have sacrificed their lives in many years past, so that you would have the right to do so.
I will stop here, as I was advised by another in a response, “you can’t fix stupid”. I enjoy challenges, but only when I can materially profit from them.
clearly not wiser. These are PROFESSIONALS with serious education requirements, as well as ongoing education requirements. Compared to their peers with similar education they are paid far less. Need a decent math/science teacher? Median pay for a starting engineer out of college is $90k. WHY would they want to accept just over 1/3 the salary to teach?
That summer vacation? Most of it is taken up with those continuing education requirements. Extra sick days? I’d have to check (your facts seem weak) but kids are the #1 carriers of colds and flu; teachers get sick more often as a result.
If you think it’s so darn easy, I suggest you volunteer at a local school and see how easy it is.
I see starting engineering jobs paying 32K to 42K, 12 months a year working, not the 90K you quote. You must be a member of a teachers union. Never satisfied.
Clean miss, older. Of course I live in Washington state, but 7 years ago Boeing was paying that for engineers fresh out of college here. Teachers here start at the wages you cite; if I finished my degree I’d be crazy to go into teaching and make less than half what I could make elsewhere.
Thanks for the civility Randy. I’ll tell you, Boeing is strongly unionized, but I seem to recall they were headed to the Carolinas to escape that. Any truth there? Also, note China is getting into planes in a big way. I would surmise tariffs on imports can actually happen if China starts to make inroads here. And, some teachers here are making over 100K, and average is 65K. Our cost of living here in SW Pa. is low, yet every year the 3% raises continue. Unionism gone wild.
You’re welcome. When we can’t disagree civilly we have lost civilization.
Keep in mind that McDonald-Douglas is in control – the cancer that destroyed that company was absorbed by Boeing. The same failed business ideas (extreme outsourcing, blaming unions, etc) that killed M-D are now in control at Boeing. It used to be a decent relationship between management and union – a bit contentious, but civil. No more. Yes, management threatened to move to the Carolinas. Heck, they got half the states in the US involved, each offering to open their throats a little more as ‘incentive’.
China could make some inroads. Management everywhere has been foolish enough to push manufacturing their way, and a very common story is what happened to Cisco about 10 years ago – the manufacturer, really a shell company, folded a week before production started and reopened as a new company a few blocks away a month later. With complete designs, fabs, everything. The lesson was not learned. Looking for cheap labor they forgot to look for adequate protection for their own work. The greedy got taken, and I suspect it’s happening with Boeing too.
Can’t say anything specific about the teachers in PA, too far away. The only ones I know of making that much are university professors and are generally worth much more. Cost of living is much higher here, but teachers wages aren’t anything like that. Sure your figures are right? They should be open to the public, straight from the state.
Summer vacation for teachers is when they must either find a temporary job doing something else, or put out money for courses to improve their teaching ability. Teaching wages are far BELOW the salaries most people with college degrees, some of them Ph.D.s, could make in a business or engineering (or legal or stockbrokerage) environment. The teachers who are quitting would, in a better economy at least, be able to make much more suing people or scamming investors. The ones who are staying are setting an example in MORAL behavior for the rest of us. And did you know that teachers, more and more often, have to pay THEIR OWN MONEY for school supplies for their students that ought to be, and once were, part of the school budget? As a former part time tax preparer, I saw some clients who tried to deduct these “donations” to the system (but the itemized decuction system is not available to people without large medical AND home mortgage interest expenses any more), and one of the “loopholes” the Republicans do NOT want to continue is to reimburse these teachers for PART of what they are giving to the schools out of pocket.
Of course Faux Nooz doesn’t mention any of this. They are pushing the false idea that “unions” in general, which gave you the 40 hour week, minimum wage, workmen’s compensation, unemployment insurance, paid overtime, two week vacation, not all of which you STILL have any more without them, and teacher’s “unions” in particular, operate like the Hoffa Teamsters of the 1950s, which was an EXCEPTION even then, and is no longer true. And the agenda of the right wing is to go back to the days when even READING was out of reach of most people unless some church or charity set up a school (and illiterate fathers tried to keep their children out of school because “book larnin’ is a waste of time”).
You may not be able to comprehend this, but THEY ARE LYING TO YOU in order to create a CORPORATE OLIGARCHY to replace our democracy. Therefore, they do NOT want average people educated, OR mentally sane.
Get your stupid, privileged, entitled Republican ass into a classroom somewhere and work for ONE day with a classroom full of kids just like you, spoiled, lazy, smug, entitled. Teachers aren’t paid to teach anymore, they are paid to survive.
You sound like a teacher trying for a union position where you can negotiate for another unjustified raise.
Except in your case, apparently, teachers deserve every penny they get, at least those teachers who are in the right profession. Teaching is the ONLY profession in which one must successfully complete four years of college, for a minimum,and many, to pursue specialties like EC (educationally challenged)MUST have a graduate degree. For this level of training, they receive, typically, about 1/4 what they could get in the private sector for that level of training. ALL public servants, like those in ANY profession, have the legal right to collective bargaining,although I personally do NOT agree with tenure – it makes it too difficult to get rid of teachers who should not be teaching. Once again, if you can find a teacher who has the nerve to let you into her classroom and work schedule for a week, do so. Spend a week in their shoes and see if you think teachers are overpaid.
The teachers union does not allow competitive teaching, only union members may instruct. Tenure is only one of many problems with teacher unions. A failing education system can then only be blamed on ……guess who? 1/4 of what private enterprise pays, eh? Does the thought of honesty ever cross your mind???
How much do you rally think teachers get paid? To make a good salary in a specialty, they are required to take more college training than a lawyer, the only other profession close to what is expected of a qualified teacher. And I am NOT saying that all teachers are qualified. You are making the mistake so many make in assuming ALL states have same union rights and regulations. The NEA and the AFT are both active in the state where I live, and your take on their authority and power over individual teachers is way out of whack.
The reality of life is that everybody wants more; then more; then more; and there is no end in sight when the payer is a property owner who must work for a truly competitive wage, and yet risk losing all he has worked for to pay these excessive demands should he fail to pay the tax. Wages in America ARE PRETTY STAGNANT AS PUBLICLY REPORTED. Obviously teacher pay is not in the mix, as teachers routinely have, for 20 years or so, gotten at least 3% per year pay raises, and better benefits all along as well. I was outspoken at a conference once, about 300 concerned citizens in attendance, and was shouted down by a few steelworkers, and coal miners, all union, of course. Most of the school board and vast majority of taxpayers in attendance were clapping when I finished. The school board two days later, defied logic and granted the raises, which got the teachers off strike. The steelworkers in attendance lost all their jobs a year later when the steel mills left for mexico and china. The coal miners have since seen all the mines closed, they are bitter as any spoiled child would be when you deny them a candy bar. The teachers are still bringing in ever more and more money, still have tenure, etc. Teachers pay is now 2 1/2 times what is was then, as they were making 45.00/hr. instruction time, then. Your typical union teacher will assure they have a hard time making ends meet……just as the fed gov has a hard time making ends meet…..it’s a question of spending habits. I have had several lawyers rent from me over the years, none of them make what the teachers make, except the ones who work in government offices. Now, the head of a law firm may make a bundle, but be sure the underlings don’t.. You say you have greater educational requirements than a lawyer? Perhaps over a 20 or 25 year period, you may have more credits, but to initially begin teaching, certainly takes no genius.
Recently 2 power plants burning coal here closed when the EPA regs became too tough, The unionized work forces there and in the mines supplying them are bitter as ever. They can be as bitter as they want, but my grand-daughter who is autistic (possibly from breathing mercury-laden pollution from those plants)will live a life of no spoken words intelligibly and very limited intellectual capacity. She is very good at sign language, and if you don’t know sign language, she prints it out on paper for you, by hand, and is reasonably computer-proficient. It is heart-rendering. Her twin sister, and my only grandson, as well,are both in academic challenge groups who contest at California University, each representing different schools. This grand-daughter may have been as well, for it not, the autism. What does it have to do with unions? Neither school has gifted classes, because they can’t afford those teachers. Nobody will ever make me appreciate teachers unions. However, I think teaching is indeed an honorable and if not publicly rewarding, then at the very least a personally rewarding profession. I must say, we went to a music concert a few weeks ago, and the teachers we saw were extremely proud of the fine work they are doing, and justifiably so, to be sure.
I have no idea what planet you are writing from. The teachers in North Carolina have received a TOTAL of maybe 3% over the past five years. In many other southern states, that is probably among the highest increases for teachers. My wife and I both worked in classrooms for a number of years, and are still in contact with some still working teachers and assistants. Raises are not something they are at all familiar with.
Tenure was offered in exchange for a pay raise.
Referring to what school system? Not all school systems in this country are unionized, and not all school unions are as strong as others. The AFT and the NEA are two entirely different entities, with differing missions and differing visions. While I support the Union movement, the question of tenure is one that the unions MUST examine more closely. Where the education of our children is concerned, the intractability of unions on this issue is totally unreasonable. Teachers who cannot perform their jobs should not be protected. Teachers who are proven to be capable and effective should be rewarded. A situation that obtains in pretty much any endeavor.
You are old but certainly not wise.
Obviously, this person graduated with honors from a top tier public school and went on to a successful career in management or financial speculation. We should all be proud. NOT!
They could take the same approach as North Carolina.
Cut tenure, cut teachers aids, increase classroom size and workload, explain why Teachers do not deserve pay raises, eliminate pay raises for increased education within their field of expertise, push voucher programs that benefit those who can afford Private Schools, pit Teacher against Teacher by providing “Incentives” for the “Best Teachers,” NOT based on actual results, but on the whims of those who decide who gets those bonuses, etc.
I almost forgot. Ridicule those who defend Teachers. After all, Teachers should be willing to “Sacrifice” in order to be Teachers.
The “Conservative” approach to the “Education Problems” is working in North Carolina. Teachers are resigning in record numbers.
The teachers, many that I know take more grief than a hard time prison guard! compare thier pay. they also work all summer to make ends meet.
Legislators in too many States consider public education a waste of taxpayer money.
The only solution they see is to cut taxes on the business community and the wealthy.
Then, declare a budgetary crisis, and blame the teachers. You know, those lazy, overpaid parasites of society.
The tax cuts and voucher systems they cram down everyone’s throat are justified in their minds. After all, if you want a good education for your children, someone has to pay for it. So, it should come out of the funds used to support public education.
Thanks for your comments. They are on the mark.
Pinellas County, The Parents whoever the kid calls dad are pimps, whores, deadbeat drug users, sellers, and lazy deadbeats. The kids use M.F. all day in classrooms, halls, school functions are ruined by fighting, vulgarity, and ignorance. The Principals and teachers must turn thier heads, some cry. This Lazy, overpaid, look important, school board will not start with the home. A simple fix from the 5th grade up with little brains and the same kind of manpower. A pathetic first hand observing situation!
The angry black male starts at home. would you like to be raised with not knowing who or where your Father is. Mother is Vulgar and ignorant, men runninig in and out. when will the power, water etc be shut off, no time to raise a kid with respect, dignity, cleanleness, lunch money, and, well imagine the life. I have looked into this a lot, seen first hand a lot. have tried to get the lazy, overpaid, board of education to get into the homes, One time we had a thing that the parent had to spend a day with thier child in school when the child caused trouble. the LAZY, OVERPAID board members sit around and look important, just let it go, It will all work itself out. Too stupid to realize that all the grades can go up, so Where does this ignorance start? if superiiors don’t car niether will teachers, students, principals, All Not fair to the kids that want to learn. Makes me sick, just pathetic.
Do you mean actually injured, or feigning injury to take one with earned assets, be it an insurance company, or an individual, and steal from them using lying attorneys who coach them into an convincing act? For a percentage? You must have rocks in your head.