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Wednesday, September 28, 2016

In a joint op-ed published in The Weekly Standard Tuesday, influential conservative pundits Bill Kristol and Rich Lowry declared their opposition to the Senate “Gang of Eight” immigration bill, and insisted that “House Republicans should kill it without reservation.”

Kristol and Lowry lay out a three-pronged case against the Gang of Eight bill: It “doesn’t solve the illegal-immigration problem,” it is too large and was written in an unacceptably “hasty manner,” and Republicans will ultimately benefit politically from killing reform efforts.

There are major flaws with each of these arguments. First, contrary to Kristol and Lowry’s skepticism about the new measure’s effectiveness, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the bill would cut illegal entries into the country by 50 percent. Second, the “hasty” bill was actually debated at length — which Kristol should remember, since he erroneously claimed that anti-reform senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) was “winning the debate” as he unsuccessfully submitted 48 amendments to the final bill.

Finally, the notion that Republicans will benefit politically from killing the bill — Kristol and Lowry incredulously ask, “Are we supposed to believe that Republican Senate candidates running in states such as Arkansas, North Carolina, Iowa, Virginia, and Montana will be hurt if the party doesn’t embrace Chuck Schumer’s immigration bill?” and suggest, in an admirable attempt to avoid using the adjective “white,” that “it’s most important that the party perform better among working-class and younger voters concerned about economic opportunity and upward mobility” — is deeply flawed. As Nate Cohn explains in The New Republic, the GOP is highly unlikely to rebound without expanding its base. Immigration reform won’t solve all of the GOP’s problems, but it is certainly a step in the right direction.

Kristol’s confidence that immigration reform would not be advantageous to the Republican Party politically is a tremendous flip-flop from a pundit who once described himself as “a liberal on immigration,” and supported George W. Bush’s 2006 reform efforts. Back then, Kristol warned against the “political — and moral — cost of turning the GOP into an anti-immigration, Know Nothing party,” writing that it “could easily dash Republican hopes of becoming a long-term governing party.” Now, Kristol writes that such concerns are “silly.”

Back then, Kristol derided the anti-reform House Immigration Reform Caucus as “The House Caucus To Return The Republican Party To Minority Status,” and suggested that they adopt the Senate’s “sensible and comprehensive immigration bill that includes border security measures, a guest worker program, and, for illegal immigrants already here, a path towards earned legalization and citizenship.” Now, Kristol writes that the Senate bill — which contains all three of those elements — “doesn’t solve the illegal-immigration problem,” even though the border-security benchmarks laid out by the 2006 bill which Kristol supported have long since been surpassed.

Of course, those Republicans who have paid attention to Kristol’s advice and predictions over the years may take his argument with a massive grain of salt. Between his decade-long push for a war in Iraq, his tireless lobbying for John McCain to select Sarah Palin as his running mate, and countless other missteps, Kristol is neck-and-neck with Dick Morris in the race for the title of America’s worst pundit. If Kristol believes that killing immigration reform is the GOP’s smartest move politically, then it’s a safe bet that Republicans should do the exact opposite.

Photo: Gage Skidmore via Flickr.com

  • Lynda Groom

    No surprise here. Reality and Kristol seldom cross paths.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      KRISTOL IS 100% CORRECT. HISPANIC GUY HERE VOTING GOP IF THEY KILL THE BILL…THE BILL IS BAD FOR AMERICAN WORKERS, HIGH AND LOW SKILLS.

  • Dominick Vila

    Of course the GOP will benefit politically from rejecting immigration reform. It will be a very long time before Hispanic-Latino voters forget the positions or the statements made by Republicans during the past several decades, and eliciting the ire of those whose opinion on this issue has a lot more to do with cultural intolerance than legal matters is the last thing the GOP needs.
    If anything passes, it is likely to be so watered down it will not be worth the paper it is printed on.

    • InsideEye

      70-80++% of Americans are definitely against amnesty,but are in favor of work visas for all immigrants , free travel back and forth, where they can contribute taxes for their use of health care and educational system. They are already having an advantage just by working here. They can apply for citizenship as all others. No need to make this bill so complex and filled with outrageous earmarks. The rules /laws are already in place. All is required is enforcement. Why do we need 2000 pages to explain this?.

      • Dominick Vila

        I have no idea how many pages we need to reform our current immigration laws, but laws that restrict the entry of semi-skilled workers whose labor is in demand in some sectors of our economy, while granting thousands of visas to professionals from countries that would love nothing more than blow us up, does not make sense.
        Like I said earlier, I oppose a path to citizenship for those that broke our laws, but something must be done to correct a system that does not work and that is creating havoc in our country, that is affecting our economy and fiscal integrity, weakening our social programs, and is damaging our international reputation.

        • tax payer

          You don’t correct something that isn’t Broken. These illegals want for our Government to think it’s Broken, but they are the people that have Broken away from their country and have invaded ours demanding the Right to stay, and take future jobs from our children

          • Jose-0311-usms

            TAX—YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.

        • dalnb

          Pew research, based on the estimated 11 million illegal aliens in the United States, states that 3,300,00 of them have virtually no education or marketable work skills. These will become eligible for entry into our social support programs if this bill passes. AND – if this bill passes – watch how many discrimination suits will be filed within the first year as the “Newly Legalized citizens” file court actions when they are not hired over American and legal applicants. The courts will support the argument saying this bill gives them equal status and America will take it in the shorts again!

          • Sand_Cat

            They’re not going to be “newly-legalized citizens” in the first year. Get a grip!
            So your reasonable sounding objections were all a cover for your being another right-winger blinded by prejudice?

          • Jose-0311-usms

            I’M A LATINO—HISPANIC GUY HERE, I’M HOPING GOP KILL THE BILL. IS BAD FOR AMERICAN WORKERS, HIGH SKILL AND LOW SKILLS…
            THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE BILL ??? LIKE FACE BOOK AND MICROSOFT ?? ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS GETTING CHEAP HIGH TECH WORKERS FROM INDIA.

            MEXICANS ??? ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS GETTING AMNESTY AND MILLIONS MORE GREEN CARD WORKERS FROM MEXICO..

            LOCAL BUSINESSES ??? WILL GET UNLIMITED GREEN CARD SLAVE WORKERS FROM MEXICO, AS MANY AS THEY NEED..

            LOSERS ??? AMERICAN WORKERS—COLLEGE HIGH TECH KIDS— AND LOW INCOME AMERICAN CITIZENS….THAT IS WHAT IS IN THE BILL….GOP HOUSE PLEASE KILL THAT BAD BILL….

            ONE MORE THING IN THE BILL—–THOSE 15 MILLION WHO GET AMNESTY ???? CAN THAN BRING ALL OF THEIR OTHER FAMILIES FROM THEIR COUNTRY, LIKE MOMS—DADS—-SISTERS—BROTHERS—- TOTAL GETTING AMNESTY ???? UP TO 30 TO 50 MILLION TOTAL.

            THE COST TO IMPLEMENT THAT ???? DEMOCRATS WON’T TALK ABOUT IT.

            DO WE NEED THAT GARBAGE IN BAD ECONOMIC TIMES LIKE WE ARE HAVING ???????
            THE 50 MILLION UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS—UNDER EMPLOYED ???? DIDN’T GET MENTION MUCH BY DEMOCRATS , WHY NOT ??? AMNESTY IS ALL THE DEMOCRATS WANT.

          • Jose-0311-usms

            THE BILL IS BAD, I’M A HISPANIC GUY AND I HATE THE BILL..WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT FOR THE U.S. CITIZENS HERE IN THE U.S. YOUR KIDS FUTURE ???? IF THAT BILL PASSES ??? YOUR COLLEGE KIDS WITH HIGH TECH COMPUTER DEGREES WON’T BE ABLE TO GET A JOB, WHY ??? H-1-B-VISAS IN THE BILL ….H-1-B VISAS ARE LOW PAYING HIGH SKILL WORKERS FROM INDIA THAT WILL COME IN AND STEAL YOUR COLLEGE KIDS JOBS.

            I KNOW WHAT IS IN THE BILL I SAW IT THE IDIOTS WHO SUPPORT IT AND PASS IT TALK ABOUT IT…..FOR DEMOCRATS ??? THEY WANT THE VOTES FROM AMNESTY, NOTHING MORE—NOTHING LESS….

            OF ALL THE THINGS THAT SCARE ME THE MOST INCLUDING TERRORISTS ATTACKS —–A DIRTY NUKE BOMB—-SNAKES ??? THE DEMOCRATS IMMIGRATION BILL SCARES ME THE MOST IF IT GETS PASS, THE END OF AMERICA—SOCIAL SECURITY—- PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO HELP AMERICANS POOR WILL BE DESTROYED……..DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE GOING ON SOCIAL SECURITY ARE TALKING ABOUT CUTTING SS MONTHLY PAYMENT TO GET THE NEW CITIZENS IN.. IT WILL BE CHAOS IF THAT BILL PASS. KILL IT.

        • Jose-0311-usms

          THERE ARE AMERICAN WORKERS THAT CAN DO THE HIGH SKILL JOBS, BUT CORPORATION LIKE FACE BOOK—-MICROSOFT WANT CHEAP SLAVE HIGH TECH WORKERS FROM INDIA THAT WILL WORK FOR LESS…..I WANT AMERICAN CITIZENS TO GET THE LOW SKILL JOBS AND THE HIGH SKILL JOBS.

          • Dominick Vila

            I agree with some of what you said. I know of a large corporation that has been laying off senior, highly skilled, American workers are replacing them with professionals from countries like India and Pakistan who earn about half of what the American workers made. Unfortunately, we have shortages in areas such as engineering and computer sciences for positions that require Masters degrees, physics, chemistry, and in the medical field.
            Nobody stops unskilled or semi-skilled American workers from applying for a job picking fruits or veggies. The reason we don’t is not because we are lazy, but because one of the consequences of living in a prosperous society is that we all become accustomed to the benefits and expectations that come along with prosperity. Farmers don’t hire illegal immigrants because they like their looks, they do it because they are willing to work for peanuts, without benefits, don’t complain and work hard. Needless to say, those farmers and employers in other sectors of our economy benefit from the availability of workers willing to accept whatever they get. The influx of illegal immigrants, which is already at its lowest level in decades as a result of the Great Recession and high unemployment, would come to a halt if Americans employers were threatened with stiff fines or closure if they hire them.

      • tax payer

        Free travel, so they can Anchor a baby here.

        • InsideEye

          Ooops, Sorry, of course we will have to give condoms to all pre-schoolers, some cultures are known to mature earlier….similarly, as we do in NYC , condoms given to all Prom goers,….. unfortunately that anchor baby “Law” ????? Was distorted , the interpretation has to be corrected.

        • Jose-0311-usms

          VISAS DOES JUST THAT, THEY HAVE THEIR BABIES IN THE U.S. AND THEY GET TO STAY.

      • Jose-0311-usms

        WORK VISAS ??? 40 % OF THE ILLEGALS COME ON WORK VISAS AND REFUSE TO GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY…
        KILL THE BILL….SOME PEOPLE DO NOT GET IT ?? OR THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS IN THE BILL ?????
        IN THE IMMIGRATION BILL, LOCAL BUSINESSES WILL GET UNLIMITED SLAVE WORKERS FROM MEXICO ON GREEN CARDS , AS MANY WORKERS AS BUSINESSES WANT, KNOW WHAT THAT IS GOING TO DO TO LOW INCOME AMERICAN CITIZENS LIKE BLACKS AND LOW INCOME LEGAL HISPANICS ????? IT WILL DESTROYED THEM. WAKE UP PEOPLE WE DO NOT HAVE THE JOBS ANYMORE TO KEEP ALLOWING MORE PEOPLE IN.

        • InsideEye

          I was saying that they should be identifiable by a worki Visa card with specific dares after which they must return to their mother counties . They should Also be a part of the tax system while here so they can contribute to health car and educational needs while here. They are getting the benefits of working here, but they must return or be deported. Some softies say you can not de

      • dalnb

        InsiderEye – I can agree with most of what you say but I would question your “70-80++% comment; where did you come up with these numbers. Both PEW Research and the CATO Institute have stated the number of U S citizens favoring an improved visitor work program has grown but I have not seen any numbers near what you suggest.
        These two organizations have shown that if this bill passes it will take from 5 to 7 years to get the illegal population into the pathway and we will see any improvement in our economy that can be credited to the Pathway
        In the meantime, 3,300,000 of the illegals will become immediately eligible for Tax Payer supported social support programs. The hardest part of this is those who enter the pathway and those who have no skill or education will not be in pay brackets that result in paying into social security. So, they will not be paying into the taxes that support the social programs but a huge portion of them will be able to draw from the social programs. The average American worker will be out of work or working at very low wages while the “pathwayers” get the jobs and lie of social support benefits paid for by those who are fortunate enough to have a job!

        • InsideEye

          It depends on how the question is asked. Most people favor a “comprehensive ” immigration. To Democrats this means legal citizenship. Others say only a right to work, but stand in line for citizenship as anyone else, and no voting rights until them.

    • Joseph Squerciati

      When was the last time Kristal was RIGHT on anything

      • midway54

        Probably in his own mind when he avoided service a la Cheney.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      NO AMNESTY—NO MORE FOREIGN WORKER. LETS HIRE AND TRAIN AMERICAN CITIZENS.

      • Dominick Vila

        Did you like the Immigration Reform and Control Act former President Reagan signed in 1986 any better? It gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants and contrary to what a lot of people think about this issues, the USA benefitted from it. Legalizing the status of millions of people willing to do things that most Americans are not interested in, and forcing them to pay taxes like everybody else, is a win/win situation for us.
        What is debatable is whether or not they deserve a path to citizenship. Most importantly, what is desperately needed is a long term solution dealing with the issuance of entry visas for future immigrants to put an end to an untenable situation. Mexican and Central American immigrants don’t jump fences, crawl through tunnels, and cross the Painted or Mojave Deserts because they like the scenery, they do it because there are no provisions in the current law to grant them legal entry. We are more likely to issue an entry visa to a potential terrorist, and let them attend our most prestigious universities so that they know how to fly into buildings in the USA, than issue a visa to a Latino immigrant who wants to pick strawberries in our farmland.

    • dalnb

      Dominick Vila — That is why this bill CAN NO BE PASSED!
      The mess we are in now is because our current immigration bill was so poorly written, implemented and applied. Our current immigration law allows federal and state managers to “pick and choose” those portions of the aw they want and apply it at their discretion. The weakness of our current law and the Discretionary powers of appointed federal managers to do as they desire within the current law has created the open door for the millions and millions of illegals to just do pretty much as they desire. This Bill has the same problem. There is no enforceable standards and no mandates that will stand-up to law or punishment for failing to abide by the law.

      Until we can get an Immigration Bill and Law then ensures it will be properly implemented, applied, enforced and federal, state and local managers held accountable for seeing it properly carried out we will continue to expand our immigration problems. This bill will do nothing to fix the problems we have with the 11 Million (+) illegals and it will with out a doubt make it harder than ever on our own citizens and legal immigrants!
      It is essential you (we) all contact our Congressmen and do everything we can to see this bill is killed!

  • Catskinner

    It never made sense to me that the GOP would support this bill, and Kristol was one of the bill’s early cheer leaders. The people who would benefit the most for this bill are big agri-business, high-tech industries who want to push down wages, and big union bosses eager to collect more dues. The big losers would be the American people. Hopefully more people like Kristol will jump on board to see this bill go down in flames.

    • dalnb

      AND – when we all do our part to make people aware of the terrible things this bill will do to America and the workers of America they too will rebel against it.
      It is essential everyone contact their family members, relatives, friends, neighbors and associate’s and have them contact their elected officials TODAY AND EVERY DAY until this bill is killed – we can not give our nation away! It is time Americans stood up for America!
      Politicians may have to cater to the special interest groups and follow their party leaders like sheep but the American people do not! If we allow Senators and Congressmen to just do as the special interest organizations pay them to do we deserve what ever we get!

      • Catskinner

        You’re right on all fronts, dalnb.

    • Sand_Cat

      So both the big union bosses and those who want to drive down wages will benefit, huh? Maybe you should rethink that.

      • Catskinner

        Hardly, the major unions made a deal with Schumer and the Chamber of Commerce to increase their membership. Big labor bosses don’t care anything about rank and file members.

        • charleo1

          Then, why worry about passing Right to work laws, if the
          presence of a strong union membership don’t support the
          entire wage system in a State? Who was it that sold you
          on the premise, that the cheaper people had to sell their
          labor, the better off everyone would be? Don’t like Obama
          Care? We wouldn’t be talking about the collapse of the
          for profit, workplace provided, healthcare, if wage
          suppressing policies like Right to work hadn’t been passed
          at the behest of the corporations. Would you consider the WalMart corporation as caring more, or less for their rank,
          and file, as the Big Labor Bosses? All this welfare the Right
          Wing keeps harping about? They never mention the wages
          have gotten so pathetic in this Country, that more than
          100 million Americans working a full time job, would qualify
          for at least some Federal assistance. Although many never
          apply. It’s still a testament to GOP success, they love to
          blame on America’s labor force. Ever see the slobber squirt
          out of the side of their mouth, as they go nearly into cardiac arrest over the fact half of all working Americans pay no Federal income tax? More Right Wing success, they now
          want no credit for. The earned income tax credit allowed
          wages to slip even further than market conditions would
          have allowed. As the Republicans, always generous to a
          fault, if your bank account’s big enough. Even ventured
          into the free market deep enough to actually use the IRS
          to subsidize the workers pay. I think, if the corporations
          ask them, they’d pay their workers for them. If they could
          get their salaries low enough.

          • Catskinner

            You tell me why the unions sold out to the chamber of commerce. Like the man said, I only know what I read in the news papers.

          • charleo1

            Sold out as in, took money? I really am interested in these
            stories that’s got so many working folks convinced they’re
            better off, if they want a raise, or better ventilation on
            the shop floor. Maybe overtime, when they have to come
            in Saturday mornings. Or, any other issue. They’re better
            off just coming in the front office with their hat in their hand,
            and wanting to know if Mr. Turner is in? If he left a message?
            Because he was suppose to make time for the lathe crew forman last week, about lighting. And he said we could talk.
            Oh, okay. Thanks a lot Suzie! How many times does that scene
            play out in these corporate run, playgrounds the Right Wing
            always creates when they get in? And how is that helpful
            to anyone, but Mr. Turner?

          • Catskinner

            It was apparently more important to the union bosses to increase their membership than it was to uphold the value of wages. But you can ask Mr. Turner if you want.

          • charleo1

            That’s convenient isn’t it? You’re blasting unions for securing
            a seat at the table, by compromising with Right Wing wage
            policies. It is very apparent to me why this Country’s in
            trouble. The Right Wingers will the buy the line about the evil
            Union Bosses betraying their rank, and file, for not being a
            total ideologues on the issue of wages. Their Right Wing heros have proven time, and again, they only care about in the context of, what’s the next idea on how wages can be cut, to help CEOs increase the quarterly profit margins. The reason they’ve got you out here parroting their compliant, with a line that makes zero sense. Is because, first you’re a total tool. And oblivious, that it’s exactly that increased membership that’s the real stone stuck in their craw. As long as people are cultivated with the inability to look at a proverbial slice of bread, without being able to determine which side holds the butter. We will continue to sink as a Nation.

          • Catskinner

            I really don’t have a dog in this hunt, charleo, but I do think Schumer’s immigration reform would be the worst thing to happen to the country in a very long time.

            So ask yourself: How did Schumer get the union bosses to go along with his proposal? And what do you think is in it for current dues paying members of the unions?

          • charleo1

            Well, there’s where you’re wrong. We all have a dog in this
            hunt. As you should know, the current misinformation being
            assimilated by the anti-immigration, faction, is using the laughable, and immediately debunked economic impact
            numbers, Jim Demint commissioned a confirmed white supremacist, to pull together for the Heritage Foundation’s policy paper. It’s premise uses ridiculous assumptions of race based, IQs, to arrive at a wholly contrived prediction of the costs of immigration reform to the Country at 6.2 trillion dollars. It’s fear based propaganda at it’s ugliest. And an often seen campaign for the status quo. To enable the same business interests who’s policies of illegal hiring have brought the situation to it’s presently unacceptable condition. The one commenter, with whom you agreed, is typical of the wrong-
            headed conclusions of the victims of the deceit perpetrated
            by Demint and other enablers that continue to assist the ones
            truly doing harm to the Country. By carrying on under law
            enforcement’s nose, this system of modern day slavery.
            The prospect of the now illegal immigrant working within the
            system. And as dues paying members of a labor union, is
            a win for all current members. As is all bargains that expand
            union influence. All members understand their power to
            demand better wages, and benefits. Indeed, all say on their
            behalf flows from the power in their numbers. Not the ethnic
            make up of the workforce.

          • Catskinner

            I think Jim Demint is right about the impact on the economy, but I’m more concerned about the impact on the environment.

          • Sand_Cat

            Then why are you here?

          • Russell Byrd

            Yes Dr. Goebbels. If you repeat that lie long enough, it will come true. Well, It won’t.

          • Catskinner

            It seems to work for Obama…

          • Russell Byrd

            Lame, untrue, and a month LATE!

          • Jose-0311-usms

            MORE MEMBERS PAYING UNION DUES IS BETTER FOR THE UNIONS THAN HIGHER WAGES..

            GLAD SOME STATES ARE PASSING THEIR OWN MINIMUM LIVING WAGES INSTEAD OF WASTING THEIR TIME WITH CORPORATION BOUGHT POLITICIANS.

            D.C. PASS A MINIMUM LIVING WAGE OF $ 12.50 AN HOUR AND ANOTHER STATE IS PASSING A $ 15 AN HOUR MINIMUM WAGE. I HOPE OTHER STATES DO THE SAME.

          • midway54

            Authored by whom and from what source?

          • Catskinner

            By Senator Charles Schumer, any news source you can name.

          • Russell Byrd

            You only know what you made up. . . .

          • Jose-0311-usms

            DEMOCRATS AND UNIONS SOLD OUT THE AMERICAN WORKERS BIG TIME…THE IMMIGRATION BILL WILL DESTROYED AND REPLACE THE AMERICAN WORKERS WITH MORE UNLIMITED CHEAP WORKERS

          • Russell Byrd

            If you are talking about the immigrants that are already here, then the only thing that will happen is they will make more money and they will actually pay taxes. All good.

            If you are talking about more illegal immigrants coming into this country, then, obey the law and put the people that hire that cheap labor where they belong . . . IN JAIL. Problem solved! That was always the law and was always the solution.

            Why do you think it takes a LEGAL Mexican immigrant over fifteen years to get into this country? Simple, we know we have enough illegals to replace any unskilled American at any time. Work for nothing or get replaced by an illegal. Or just get replaced at the whim of a greedy employer.

            The final line is, the “fat cats” did this knowingly and on purpose. They hate the average American, they hate Democracy, and above all, they love money.

          • dalnb

            BUT – we can stop this IF (IF) we all push our Congressmen to see that this bill does not pass.
            We do need immigration Reform but we do not need to be giving amnesty or a special “pathway to citizenship” for any illegals.
            We need to secure our border and we need to improve our “Legal Immigration” program but we do not need amnesty or any special “pathway” for those who have elected to violate our laws!
            This bill needs to be killed NOW! It should be rewritten addressing ONLY border security and our legal immigration system. Get those two things taken care of in a separate bill then take on the illegals I our nation. Use the money being proposed to hire 20,000 more border guards (who will be on our payrolls for every and ever) to establish a seek and deport department to locate (through rewards to citizens and legal immigrants for turning in illegals) and get them out of our country.
            At that time our won people will be able to find work. Our school kids will be able to get jobs, our long (long time) unemployed will be able to go back to work, our returning military people will have jobs available, and our “legal” immigrants will be able to come here in compliance with our laws and have work available. If this bill passes employment for our citizens and legal immigrants is going to get worse and our social support programs are going to be over burdened as taxes go up to help pay for those on the pathway but make too little money to pay taxes that support the social programs!

        • midway54

          “. Big labor bosses don’t care anything about rank and file members.”

          Taken right out of the plutocrats’ play book of excrement. The fatcats and your idols at Fox “News” love the likes of you.

          • Catskinner

            These people are simply out for themselves. Big Bill Haywood went away a long time ago. They need to do things that make the rank-and-file think they are acting in the membership’s best interest, but it seems like they rarely do that.

          • Jose-0311-usms

            MORE MEMBERS, MORE UNION DUES FOR THEM.

      • Jose-0311-usms

        UNIONS ONLY CARE ABOUT WORKERS PAYING UNION DUES, THEY DON’T CARE IF THE WORKERS ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS—OR—-FOREIGN WORKERS—-BUSINESSES WANT THE CHEAP SLAVE WORKERS.

        • Catskinner

          Agree completely, Jose…

          • Sand_Cat

            What a surprise! But then, we know you agree with Hitler, too. Are you opposed to unions because you read in some lunatic-fringe rag that the Jews were taking over the unions, in addition to their complete control of the news media, the financial industry, the entertainment industry, and – who knows – probably the abortion industry as well?

        • Sand_Cat

          Yes, I’m sure they were formed for purely evil purposes, to undermine motherhood, apple pie, and the good old USA.
          So go ahead and ignore history, or maybe you’re too ignorant to know how wrong you are.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      CATS—–YOU GET IT. YOU ARE 100 % CORRECT… WINNERS—MEXICANS–MEXICO—LOCAL BUSINESSES—CORPORATIONS..

      LOSERS—–AMERICAN WORKERS—-HIGH TECH COLLEGE KIDS—LOW INCOME AMERICAN CITIZENS—-SOCIAL SECURITY—WELFARE—TAX PAYERS.

      • Catskinner

        So right, Jose…

  • tax payer

    Kill it for the good of this country or suffer job losses. This is America, so if you don’t work the Government ( tax payers ) will take care of you. Would you rather stay home and live like a King or work, and live like a Slave, so others can eat. Most Americans prefer to stay home and eat like a King but not at their own expense.

    • ChristoD

      You Sir are a completely propagandized fool. If you think people ‘living off the tax payer’ live like Kings, man you are warped. For you to claim that MOST American would prefer to live this way shows ignorance at the highest level. Do your homework or get a brain transplant before you post crap like this again. Unbelievable.

      • tax payer

        A King has his servants and these people have the tax payers as their servants, so what is your problem? Most Americans I am talking about are those that have always stayed home and you as a tax payer have always fed their families. You must be one of those that stays home otherwise you would understand my comment.

        • Sand_Cat

          So this is just another excuse to claim all those who oppose you politically do so because they’re worthless freeloaders, while you’re pure as the driven snow.
          What an ass you are!

          • tax payer

            Politically? Where did I mention in the last comment I was a Democ(Rat) or a Republi(Can). Worthless Freeloaders you feed with your tax money and you know I am referring to those that refuse to work, and not people that are ( actually ) out there working. There is a difference, but you just ( don’t care ) to notice it. I am pure as you say and ( can provide ) for my family, so is that wrong to not depend on you to feed my family?

          • Russell Byrd

            You have interminably told us your affiliations before. We all know it. Of course, after this post, someone would have to be pretty dumb not to figure it out. As the average progressive thinker’s IQ is about 10 points higher than a narrow right-wing deist, I think you are counting on the wrong crowd to miss the cues. I guess you cannot see this. . . .

            If we force all these people off of food stamps and back to work, what will they do? Really, what will they do? You want to cure what you see as a problem, but you do not want to fix the issues that cause that problem to begin with. Does a high-minded individual like you think that starvation and want are good cures for joblessness.

          • tax payer

            You seem to have missed the point. I have always referred about people that can work, but they feel we have to support them. The working poor stay in those low income jobs, so they can get free food from you and all the TAX PAYERS. No one starves in this country thanks to the TAX PAYERS. I am not rich, but we make it, so I feel why can’t other people try to make it too. You say, if we forced these people off Food Stamps what will they do? They will have to go back to work, so what is so wrong in working and earning some money? Who doesn’t want $800.00 worth of free food every month? That’s what my neighbor gets with eight children and a boyfriend that lives with her and they don’t report his income. Add that up for 12 months. $9,600.00 worth of free food and how much do you pay in one month out of your own pocket? Not even one half of that because you have other bills to pay such as your Mortgage, Electric, Heath, Vehicles and most of these people don’t pay for that either. Maybe for the 2013 vehicle they have parked outside in the boyfriends name. Now, do you see what I mean and how they live better than those that work. You may still be working, while other men your age are home living a Life of someone that has retired, but it’s not the same thing. I understand that you want to feed everyone in this country also remember people will take advantage of the system and never will want to get off the easy Life.

          • Russell Byrd

            Sincerely, your entire problem is one of bigoted hate, driven by spoon-fed propaganda, blindly your view. You equate the 95% that can AND WOULD with the 5% that won’t.

            I work with a guy that is a carbon copy of you. On three occasions he has said, “it is a shame that welfare had to be done away with, since it helped so many people, because of the actions of a few. Like you he is a “christian,” but he would starve the many to get back at a few. We do not have to dicker about what Jesus taught. I was more than just well-versed on the subject, BUT I got over it. Sorry, for the little “c” in christian, above, but like my colleague, you only mouth the word. Maybe, you are a big church going, like my colleague. Unfortunately, you are just members of a big hypocritical club.

            This is as sincere a post as I will ever make to you. You have a right to your beliefs, but you viciously try to force yours on others, as well as wish evil on people you truly know nothing about.

          • tax payer

            For the record I am not a Religious Person. Jesus is an imagination of people that don’t understand there is no God and are fools to that think there is one. People were born to die and there is no way they will live forever except in a video, but members of their future families will throw those videos in the trash or tape over them. Poor people are a burden to society, so go ahead and feed them from your own pocket, and not expect tax money to feed them. I know you won’t do it, so why talk about feeding them. This is the last time I will acknowledge any comment from you because you just don’t get it and we could go on for years. I have other things more important in Life like buying food for my family with hard earned cash from my Pensions. Don’t comment about anything I write to me from now on because I won’t respond to you.

          • Russell Byrd

            If you will not respond to me, THEN THAT WAS ALL I EVER WANTED. COOL. I will debunk your lies and then we are DONE. No more postings run amok. That suits me fine, baby.

            As far as religion, we both know your spiel is only partly true. You use reference to the religion of others at ANY time you think it will get you what you want. I will tell you something you should have been able to glean. I may not be conventionally atheist, but I do not believe in religion at all. It is evil by nature. It lets people do evil things with the promise of forgiveness.

            Our major difference is I believe in doing what is right, regardless of a belief system. You believe in doing what makes you feel good, and unfortunately, your are just as evil as the worst deist. The difference is, you do not believe you will ever be held accountable. However, that is a sociopath and though you may live among us, when you step out of line, we owe you a death. Our laws are principally created to defend society from people like you.

            Anyway, do as you say. Please make it so. . . .
            We both know you won’t.

          • Russell Byrd

            So what you are saying is if we straighten out the 5% that are the do-nothings, then we can continue to take care of the 95% until someone creates enough jobs to get them off of SNAP, etc. Agreed, that is absolutely fair.

            Like my colleague ranted one morning, after he had his morning “Rush” that we needed to put 10M people off of U I, because it made them not want to work. I reminded him that there were only 1M jobs. And except for the service industry, most of those jobs did not exist. As I well, know a lot of jobs many companies list are never filled, nor do they actively try to. My point to him was, even if he were true, even if it were not an indecent, immoral thing to do, what would the other 9M do. Starve? Your mob is unconcerned.

            You see that is the tell-tale sign of the Sociopath. You lack empathy. These people can learn to artificially function in society, but they tend to be our worst criminals. They always know they have the right answer. The right answer is: Everything is about ME. I have empathy in spades. What about yourself?

            Sorry, I only read the first couple of lines. I am doing my right-wing imitation.

      • tax payer

        If a Brain Transplant was possible there is no way I would ask for your Empty Hollow Brain.

        • Sand_Cat

          I think you lost that exchange. Try to withdraw gracefully.

          • InsideEye

            Hello Sand_Cat, sometimes it takes a few posts to get all of the explanations in.

          • tax payer

            You got me there. I’ll leave, but not for long.

          • InsideEye

            The issues here are complex, to explain in short snip-it’s, for some to grasp……it was not meant disparagingly.

          • Russell Byrd

            There was a story about an individual that was speaking with his neurologist. The doctor recommended a brain transplant (bear with me). After some reluctance this person finally agreed. “Doc what are my options?” The doctor goes on to explain that he has two brains available. The doctor continues and says, “this brain belonged to a liberal, progressive person. It will cost 100G to have it transplanted.” The doctor follows with, “the other brain I have belonged to ‘tax payer. It will cost you 500G to be transplanted.” For several minutes the patient mulled over a decision and then he asked the doctor, “why does tax payer’s brain cost five times as much. To which the doctor replied, “it’s never been used.”

      • dalnb

        It is a matter of personal decision and standards! Everyone has their right to both; this guy obviously has very low standards and living like a kinig to him must be far different than what 99.9% of the people believe!

      • Jose-0311-usms

        IF THE IMMIGRATION BILL IS PASS ????? I PREDICT WELFARE TO TRIPLE—–FOOD STAMPS—-SOCIAL SECURITY WILL GET 20 MILLION MORE PEOPLE ….CHAOS.

    • highpckts

      Most Americans???? So most Americans are takers and moochers? You are a self righteous, egocentric twit!

      • tax payer

        Go suck on your a Cucumber.

        • highpckts

          Well now that was intelligent!!

          • tax payer

            I meant a real cucumber, so don’t think I meant something else. I don’t have a nasty mind because that’s not me. I slice them since they taste better with black pepper and salt.

          • Russell Byrd

            Yeah, … YOU … DO. You just admitted it while covering for your earlier comment. If you were lily white pure, you wouldn’t need the alibi. . . .

    • dalnb

      According to Pew Research 3,3000,000 of the 11 millions illegals will fit into your description of a “King” as, according to Pew they have no education or marketable work skills and they will become immediately eligible for our welfare and social assistance programs. Unfortunately you have not met many Americans or you would know better!

      • tax payer

        According to me these ( many American People ) have found a way to suck the system dry and not work, and live a good life, so ( you work ) to provided their needs for them. I am referring to the people that actually think ( they were born to never work ), but yet feel they have the Right to take from the tax payers, ( so yes ) I have met many of these American people and they will never be productive workers in their Life. You feel sorry for them, but in Reality you should feel sorry for the tax payers that have to work and not enjoy being home seven days a week like these Parasites. Some of the illegals will join our freeloaders ( some are already there ), so maybe they’ll have to double your taxes to be able to support them all. I don’t work anymore ( Retired ) because I paid my share while working all those years. I paid my part to feed the lazy ( able to work, but don’t ), so now it’s your turn, so enjoy doing it. You see them everyday with six to seven children, but that’s the life they chose and you have to pay, so they can stay home all day, and make more babies for the tax payers to feed. Only in American this can happen, so why do you think people come to this country?

        • Russell Byrd

          No one lives a good life on “entitlements.” Yes, some people slum around and get by at a certain LOW level of comfort, but no one gets heeled on food stamps.

  • disqus_ivSI3ByGmh

    All the Koch brothers have to do is remind Kristol where his funding comes from, and soon he will to their line and preach about how vital the passage of the immigration reform bill is to the country.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      KRISTOL— IS 100 % RIGHT . IF THE IMMIGRATION BILL IS PASS ?? KISS AMERICA GOODBYE..GET READY FOR TRIPLE UNEMPLOYMENT—TRIPLE WELFARE —TRIPLE FOOD STAMPS…THOSE WHO HAVE JOBS ?? ARE GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THE LOWER 50 % WHO WILL BE REPLACE BY FOREIGN WORKERS.
      LETS BE HONEST , AMNESTY IS NOT IN THE GOP BEST INTEREST, MEXICANS ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE GOP IF THEY GET AMNESTY. TAKE IT FROM A LATINO WHO KNOWS.

  • dalnb

    It should not come down to “which party” will “ultimately benefit politically from
    killing immigration reform efforts”, it is America we need to be worrying about. This bill will do far more harm than good for our country and pushing it to obtain or sustain party dominance is the worst thing that can happen. It made it through the Senate not on merit but rather party dominance and by shirt-tailing the 2010 battle cry ”to big to fail!”

    This bill needs to be totally rewritten. If passed we will still have the millions and millions of illegals in the U.S. and the majority will still be “in the shadows” as they avoid declaring themselves, seeking amnesty, or changing anything they have been doing. A small percentage may pursue the amnesty but many of those will fail to meet the standards, many will fail to complete the process and the majority of them will eventually slip back into the shadows joining those who did not apply- they will still be here!

    First – the bill is to broad making it far to big. There seems to be three major parts in the bill, immigration reform, border security and amnesty for the illegals. Finding
    anyone who rejects the idea of immigration reform would be almost impossible, The majority of Americans believe and support the reform. They also believe the illegals should not be allowed to remain in the United States and the majority of the people believe we need to improve border security.

    Second – This bill does not provide enforcement provisions. We are in the mess we are because the current bill has been ignored and federal managers have been allowed to “pick and chose” what parts they want to use, when and how. This bill has the same problem!

    Thirdly – the bill is far too big and needs to be thrown out and started over. The bill needs to address immigration reform based on the needs of America FIRST AND ALWAYS not on appeasing people who have elected to ignore our laws. A new immigration policy/law needs to ensure America and the American people and legal immigrants are taken care of – this bill does neither!

    The size of the bill needs to more realistic. All agree we need immigration reform and border security; very few agree we need to allow the illegals in our country to remain
    here!

    A rewritten Immigration Reform bill needs to take any talk, discussion, consideration,
    debate and proposal/threat of Amnesty (under any name, modification or similar
    approach) out of the bill entirely. The bill needs to address how to fix the problems
    with “legal immigration” and establish a balance of our nations needs. It also needs to work on a sensible Border Security Plan that does not add thousand of new federal workers and billions and billions of dollars into the federal budget. If we are going to add huge numbers of new federal employees they should be used to seek out the illegals and get them out of the country. If your home is infested with rats you will take action to stop the flow of the rats into the house but you certainly would not just let those already there remain would you?

    ANY bill. Plan or legitimate effort to fix our immigration system needs to have a well
    developed, logical and enforceable scheme; this bill has none! The flexibility with our current law is the major cause of our problems now. It is too flexible and arbitrary. Federal managers are allowed to just use it as they desire, when they desire and for what ever purpose they desire; there are no mandates that can not be adjusted at the whim of elected and/or appointed federal managers. A new law MUST set solid, clearly defined objectives that MUST be complied with and any federal, state or local
    elected or appointed managers who fail to comply by law should be quickly cited
    and punished.

    We can not be wishy washy about protecting our nation. Our current immigration laws are weak and this bill is worse! This bill must not be allowed to pass – not for the good of the Republicans or the Democrats but for the good of America!

    • InsideEye

      well stated, Sand_Cat and I agree with succinct description.

    • Howard15

      We can end the illegal immigration problem in 30 seconds. EVerify should be mandatory and if we adapt and enforce strict laws and penalties for employers who knowingly employ undocumented workers then this problem is solved. As far as deporting 11,000,000 people, that is not realistic. This country was formed and built by immigrants. Even if we had the resources to capture, try, convict, incarcerate and deport all of these human beings, it would be against our morals.The fact is that we have all of these people here because we invited them in when we hired them without verifying their work status. I have no problem giving them legal status immidiately and citizenship if they go to the back of the line. I know some of these people. They are good, hard working, and honest. They risk their life to get here, work for low wages and send most of their earnings home to keep their families from starving. They have an extremely hard work ethic and go to chuch on Sundays. Comparing any human being to a rat is totally classless.

      • dalnb

        Fortunately in America we are entitled to our own opinion and have the right to voice them. As such I appreciate your opinion but I can not agree with parts of it. I do agree there are many “good, hard working, and honest” men and women in the millions of illegals we have in our
        country. The problem is – you can not separate them saying the good ones can stay the others must go. I have worked with, dated, and enjoyed the company of many, many immigrants; I have no doubt
        some of them may have been illegally here.

        You are right also that our country owes a lot to the millions of immigrants who have come to this country and helped make it what it is. The vast majority of those came here legally though and we have always and always will welcome legal immigrants. We should be doing more to help them and far less in appeasing the illegals.

        As far as not being able to afford deporting the illegals; The current bill is proposing adding 20,000 new federal employees onto the Tax Payers back. The average wages for these individuals will start at around $62,000 annually plus their training, equipment and benefits. These men and women will be stationed on the border – not within the states doing anything about the illegals. They will certainly slow the illegal entry but keep in mind somewhat over 40% of the illegals came here legally and have never left; the border patrol has no control over that. Keep in mind also that the director of the Border Patrol testified that somewhere around 52% of the men and women they catch illegally crossing the border have criminal records. We can use that
        figure to “Assume” a similar number of the 11 million (+) illegals here
        includes a large number of people with criminal records (criminal records beyond the illegal entry/stay in the U.S)

        We are wasting time and money debating the current immigration
        bill. Our immediate need is to secure the border and improve our Legal Immigration program. That debate does not need to include any discussion on how to handle the illegals; that issue should be handled as a totally separate issue. The truth is even if this bill passes we will still have the same millions and millions (the majority) of illegals in
        this country. Nothing will really change – they will still be here!

        Okay – no rats; lets say our home was flooding and destroying what we have inside the house. We fix the flooding problem but just keep the mess in the house the flood waters created; allowing the illegals to remain here is no different – liking them has nothing to do with it. I spent 27 years in the military and another 20 in civilian law enforcement – integrity, duty and responsibility to the nation, our laws and our men and women is what truly made our nation great. Amnesty is a slap in the face of law abiding citizens and legal immigrants!

        • Howard15

          You are correct there is no need for 20,000 new federal employees. Stop hiring the undocumented and they will stop coming. We can then reduce our expenditures on border control.

          As far as criminals coming over the border I would imagine that they are carrying large backpacks of Marijuana and/or are professional drug runners. Now we are getting to the 800 lb elephant in the room. Nobody seems to want to discuss the real issue which is the drug trade. Now if you really want to stop the drug trade you will need to militarize the border. Or you legalize them.
          Legalize the drugs and stop hiring the undocumented and the border is secure. No danged fence just ports of entry.It will be no different than the Canadien border.
          Now that that is solved we can concentrate on how to make it easier for those to enter our country legally. I do not agree with you that we have always and always will welcome immigrants. I am a second generation American whos Grandparents arrived at Ellis island to escape Hitler during WWII.They were fortunate to have a sponsor. The rest of the family was not so fortunate and mostly died in concentration camps They were denied enrty into US and all countries. They were sentenced to death in that capacity. If it were so easy to get in here legally we would not have 11 million here that have overstayed their visas or traveled 1000 miles to be robbed and raped by their Coyotes and then hopefully survive the elements.All for the opportunity to avoid detection and then live in the shadows in fear of incarceration and deportation. So now we can improve our guest worker programs , work and student visa programs and streamline this process and solve your issue of individuals overstaying their visas. Our immigration system is complicated and broken. It requires a comprehensive and thoughtful solutions.
          So now the people that are here can come out of the shadows and get their work permits, pay their back taxes, be deported if they have criminal records and begin a pathway to citizenship at the end of line. At best they get citizenship in 15 years if they chose.
          Thank you for your service to our country.

          • dalnb

            Thank you Howard for your comments; I appreciate your reply and your opinions. Much of what you say is accurate, some I can not agree with you on, much of it is sad. That is why the current immigration bill is bad and needs to either stop or undergo a major revision.

            Agreed; we do not all always welcome all immigrants. Slaves were brought to the U S against their will and forced to work under horrible conditions; history shows Americans rebelled against that. But- Even today we have similar problems as
            human trade crosses’ into our country across the border and through formal transportation modes. We will never be able to stop all illegal entry for what ever the reason for doing so may be. Amazingly we have state laws that prohibit entry into our states from other states (One being Pandering) that get far more attention and enforcement than the federal immigration violations do.

            Very few people will disagree that we need a total update and rewrite of our Immigration laws. We have been saying so for years. Unfortunately today’s efforts were not initiated with a
            primary interest in fixing our national problem but more for political gains That purpose must impact people who like your ancestors were compelled to seek security outside their home country due to their political situation.

            We can sympathize with many of the men and women here illegally. I feel sorrow for many of them; the actions of many of the illegals have made it hard and created mistrust and disdain for the legal immigrants. Had we complied with our current immigration law much of this would have been prevented. Writing a new law was not the answer; updating the current law giving it the attention needed to manage the nations needs is what is needed. Turning our back on the real problem and allowing a free for all attitude is what got us into this mess. The current bill does not contain enough legal mandates to ensure we do not continue down the same path the past 15 years has taken us! What ever happens to this bill, pass or fail, we will still have the 11 million plus men and women who came here illegally in our country; most will still be “in the shadows” and we will have added billions of Tax Payers money into an unsolved problem. We have had no control over these men and women coming here and as little control over their actions
            while here. Most of them we do not know who they are, when they came here, why they came, what their intentions and actions have been here, or what their future interests are. Statistically the percentage of those illegally in our nation have criminal records (as supported by the number of illegals apprehended when illegally entering our country).

            We know the presence of the illegals in our country has cost us billions of dollars, we know their presence here has impacted our jobs, impacted our social support networks, schools, hospitals and quality of life. All that should have been protected through an effective and enforced immigration law. Now we hear the problem is too big to handle by doing the right thing so we seek alternatives that makes a mockery out of our laws. At the same time we try to convince the world that America is a fair place, respectful of laws, born and grown by immigrants. But what signal does it send when we just let people come here in violation of our laws and change our laws to appease those who violate them?

            What needs to happen is a total rewrite of this immigration bill. It needs to first take care of Americas needs ensuring we are managing our work force requirements, supporting our citizens
            and legal immigrants, farms and industries, affording “legal” access to our educational and medical programs, protecting our nation against illegal entry with a program that does the best we can to know who is here and why, and most of all – a new immigration law that mandates enforcement to the letter of the law. This bill does not do that. Just as the current law it allows far too much discretion by policy makers to pick and choose what and how they want to apply the law. We can not allow that to happen again!

            We need our congress and senate to rewrite this bill addressing our legal immigration procedures and border
            security. Handling the illegals in our nation needs to be a separate debate completely detached from discussions on fixing legal immigration and border security!

          • Jose-0311-usms

            EISTEIN, LOL——STOP HIRING THE ILLEGALS ??? DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO ENFORCE THE IMMIGRATION LAWS, IT BENEFIT THEM BY NOT ENFORCING IT.. ANCHOR BABIES THAT TURN 18 YEARS OLD CAN VOTE AND THEY VOTE DEMOCRAT.

            THE MORE ILLEGALS POPPING OUT ANCHOR BABIES ?? THE BETTER FOR DEMOCRATS.

        • Jose-0311-usms

          I’M CONCERN ABOUT AMERICAN WORKERS—-YOUR KIDS FUTURE—-BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT , THAT AS AN AMERICAN YOU TO SHOULD BE CONCERN WITH…
          MY KID HAVE A COLLEGE COMPUTER DEGREE AND CAN’T GET A JOB…

          CORPORATION WANT THE CHEAP HIGH TECH WORKERS FROM INDIA, REFER TO AS H-1-B-VISA WORKERS.

          WHAT IS BAD ABOUT IT ?? I’M STILL PAYING FOR HIS COLLEGE LOAN AND HE BEEN UNEMPLOYED FOR 5 YEARS, DOING DEAD END PART-TIME JOBS.

      • Russell Byrd

        Thank you. I have been saying this for years. I do not like a lot of the immigrants, but they are mostly people that came here in search of a better life. If our fat cats had not been rolling out a red carpet for them, they would not have come.

        Quit hating hard working people that are trying to survive and thrive. Start prosecuting the scum that exploits them in order to make a quick killing. When it becomes painful to the true lawbreakers, i.e. the rich, the demand for undocumented labor will dry up.

      • Jose-0311-usms

        E-VERIFY ???? YES IF WE HAD A PRESIDENT THAT WILL DEPORT THEM, BUT DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO DEPORT THEM. DEMOCRATS WANT THEIR VOTES..

    • Jose-0311-usms

      DALND——YOU ARE CORRECT, IT WILL DESTROYED AMERICA AND AMERICAN WORKERS…UNEMPLOYMENT WILL GO TO 25 –30 % IF THE BILL IS PASS——WELFARE , WILL TRIPLE—-FOOD STAMPS WILL TRIPLE….
      DEMOCRATS ARE NOT TELLING US ABOUT THE COST ??? WHY NOT ?? LOL.

      • dalnb

        PEW Research show 3,300,000 of the expected 11 million illegals in this country have no education or work expereicne and these will immidetaly become eligible for welfare nd other various state and federal support programs. At the same time – wages are expected to go down (that is why the effort to raise minimum wages is being pushed in a separate bill that will most likely not be passed) creating an even LARGER problem.
        Thos who make low wages do not pay into fedral income taxes and it is from tose taxes that a lot of our social support program get funded. So – we allow millions and millions of illegals to go to work in the U.S. working at less than normal wages and making below standard wages so they do not pay Income Taxes (What “back” income tax will those in the shadows have to pat when going onto the “pathway?) will not pay into the social program support the 3,300,000 will most likely fall into. And how many of those who do have an education and work experience will not be able to find work and they too will become eligible for social support.
        It is essential we all push our Congressmen to see this bill dies! Tell them we need Border Security and we need to fix our Legal Immigration system but we do not need to seal the fate of American and legal immigrant workers with a law that will give jobs to lilegals while honest families suffer.

        Call, email or write your Congressman now!

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    And the good ole bois are at it again. The only reason the GOP now wants to sidle up to immigration, on THEIR terms mind you, is because they stupidly believe all the illegals will then be able to vote. Otherwise, these good ole good ole bois do not EVER want their crony capitalists to have to pay the payroll and business taxes for legal immigrant workers. It’s money as always with the good ole bois.

  • howa4x

    Kristol’s argument that the GOP needs to do better with younger voters to offset Latinos is the most flawed part. It with that group that the GOP trails worst than any other one. Going on recess before lowering interest rates for college loans shows the house’s indifference to the needs of younger voters. How can they rise economically if they are drowning in debt? Younger voters support issues like same sex marriage by large margins, and are not fanatical about banning abortions. In every survey they think the GOP is out of step with the rest of the country. Now alienating Latinos will just add to the groups numbers that dislike the GOP. Yes there will always be White enclaves in this country that will only vote republican but soon the GOP will be a more regional party than a national one. Very strong in rural areas and very weak in more urbanized ones, where the majority of the population lives. It really doesn’t matter what the house does. The states are already on an anti women campaign that will defacto repeal Roe /Wade. Couple that with voter suppression, a refusal to have a sane gun policy , rolling back environmental regulations for their rich friends and calling climate change a hoax, the GOP has a huge hill to climb is it wants anyone under 30 to vote for them.

    • Jim Myers

      Excellent post.

      Good job.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      GIVING MEXICANS WHAT THEY WANT FOR THEIR VOTES ???? IS SELLING OUT THE COUNTRY AND AMERICAN WORKERS.

      GIVING BUSINESSES WHAT THEY WANT FOR THEIR BRIBES ?? IS SELLING OUT AMERICA AND AMERICAN WORKERS..

      I LOVE AMERICA, DON’T LET THE IDIOTS GIVE IT AWAY.

      • howa4x

        Well I was talking to a contractor yesterday and he told me he can’t find American kids to do framing jobs. Most landscaping companies have Latinos and the fast food industry does too. This is because American young people don’t want to do these jobs. .It is up to us to take these jobs back and encourage young people to do them

  • Charlotte de Dios

    What the Republicans may not understand is that killing the Comprehensive Immigration Reform, will hit them hard in the future! The thing they don’t understand or are unaware is that every month 50,000 Latinos turn 18 and they can and will vote! Their parents may be undocumented, but they are born here!

    • Howard15

      Shush
      Dont tell them, let them commit suicide if they wish.

      • Jose-0311-usms

        GIVING MEXICANS WHAT THEY WANT IS BLACK MAIL.. GIVING MEXICAN AMNESTY IN EXCHANGE FOR THEIR VOTES ??? AT THE EXPENSE OF THE AMERICAN WORKERS IS DEAD WRONG. THEY SHOULD BE DEPORTED BACK TO MEXICO.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      EXPLAINS WHY DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO DEPORT THEM.. ANCHOR BABIES ?? TIME TO END THE 14 AMENDMENT ANCHOR BABY AMENDMENT BULL.

    • Jose-0311-usms

      DEPORTATION IS THE ANSWER

  • charleo1

    Isn’t what Bill Kristol is really saying to the GOP. Is, it would have been better all
    around for the Party, if you could have managed a reform bill. But, now it’s going
    to turn out to be, another embarrassment for the Party? Drawing even more
    attention to the fact, the Party is fundamentally incapable of doing anything but
    opposing things, like Roe V. Wade, and healthcare reform. It seems fairly obvious,
    Kristol has talked to T-Party leaders like Rand Paul, Jim DeMint and others, that at
    the end of the day, will not allow legislation fixing the Country’s huge immigration
    mess, to pass in a Congress they have intentionally broken to affirm their anti-
    government agenda. And why should they? Having made themselves largely
    unaccountable to none but their base. Who after years of listening to the majority
    of their Party, use immigration in a very racial, and disrespectful way. Not couched
    in terms of a governmental regulatory program in need of modernization, to manage
    the realities of an issue that has changed dramatically over the last 30 years. But,
    as simply a matter of enforcing current laws, and beefing up security at the border.
    The message that the solution required no more than mustering the political will
    to oppose the Left, and their plans to cease political power by changing the cultural
    make up of the Country. And that, is at the heart of the, “immigration problem.” So, the base, that for all intents, and purposes, is running the GOP, naturally see the Senate’s passing of an immigration reform bill, with a path to citizenship, and an insistence of the political necessities of the House going along. As a con job, of the
    highest order. And attempted sell out, of their long term best interests. And why
    wouldn’t they? I these threads many of us have discussed at length the obvious
    misinformation replete within the Right Wing. And if there is any penalty for the
    unprecedented willingness to abandon the truth in today’s cable, and internet media
    world. Where one may simply choose their news. This issue demonstrates, in very
    clear terms, the old rules still apply. In politics, as in life. We still must reap what we sow. It just takes longer than it used to.

  • commserver

    The big problem with amnesty is that many of the illegals are hoping that it will happen again and again and again.

  • Catskinner

    Hordes of immigrants pouring into the nation has made those of us who used to support abortion to change our minds.

  • Jose-0311-usms

    LATINO HERE, VOTING GOP IF THEY KILL THE IMMIGRATION BILL, WHY ?? IT WILL HURT BLACKS—LOW INCOME LEGAL HISPANICS—IT WILL REPLACE AMERICAN WORKERS WITH CHEAP FOREIGN WORKERS. LEGAL CITIZENS HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THEIR KIDS FUTURE….CORPORATIONS AND LOCAL BUSINESSES WILL BE THE WINNERS WITH UNLIMITED GREEN CARD WORKERS.