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Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Despite significant negative signals, the final outcome of this week’s arguments over the Affordable Care Act will remain unknown until the Supreme Court issues a ruling in June. What is painfully obvious today, however, should have been clear enough long before any of the lawyers opened their mouths. The five Republican justices represent an ideological bloc as adamantly hostile to universal health care – no matter the cost in lost lives or squandered trillions – as in 1965, when Medicare passed.

If the high court voids the law’s insurance mandate (once promoted by the same politicians and policymakers who now scorn it), we know how Tea Party Republicans would cope with the financial problem posed by ill and injured people who show up at hospitals without coverage. They told us last fall during the presidential debate in Tampa when they cheered for “Let him die!”

Neither the Republican justices nor the lawyers challenging the law were nearly so crude in court. Indeed, Michael Carvin, the eminent attorney representing the National Federation of Independent Business, specifically rejected the notion that overturning health reform could result in denying care to the uninsured, during a crucial exchange with Justice Sonia Sotomayor.

“What percentage of the American people who took their son or daughter to an emergency room and that child was turned away because the parent didn’t have insurance,” asked Sotomayor, “… do you think there’s a large percentage of the American population that would stand for the death of that child – [who] had an allergic reaction and a simple shot would have saved the child?”

In his response, Carvin scolded, “One of the more pernicious, misleading impressions that the government has made is that we are somehow advocating that people be — could get thrown out of emergency rooms, or that this alternative that they’ve hypothesized is going to be enforced by throwing people out of emergency rooms.”

  • drbob232

    The impact of ending the individual mandate would not be that great even if it were struck down by the Supreme Court.

    That is because it is quite limited to begin with. There are two exemptions to it already in the health care reform law that are very broad; for those whose payment for the lowest cost health exchange plan exceeds 8% of their income, and for those with incomes below the tax filing threshold. When these two criteria are applied to expected health insurance premium costs using Congressional Budget Office data, the results are;

    -About 50% of the uninsured wouldn’t even be subject to the mandate and penalty to begin with.

    -For 45% of the remaining uninsured in lower incomes who are subject to the penalty (singles between $9350 and $24,000, and family of four between $18,700 and $55,000), the penalty shouldn’t be of much impact because the subsidies to them when they sign up for an insurance plan are very generous and it is hard to see why they would pass that up.

    -For the remaining 5%; singles with incomes above $64,000 and a family of four above $176,000 the mandate and penalty may be bothersome; but they can pay it if they so choose. So the effect on their decisions whether to buy insurance is minimal as well.

    The conclusion is that the mandate will actually affect the decision to buy insurance of very few people and concern over its loss is being way overblown.

  • ObozoMustGo

    The very “headline” of this article is all one actually really needs to read to know where the leftist Sotomayor, and others, stand on the issue. The very assumption that somehow, in a hypothetical situation, that AMERICA “let’s him die” begins with a collectivist view of the country. It is patently false and is destructive to our public discourse to allow the narrative to begin with the assumption that we have a collective responsibility for such personal matters as consumption of health care. WE do not! I am responsible for my own health and that of my family. I am not responsible in any way for your health, your habits, your lifestyle, or your fees for medical care. In the example cited, it’s not AMERICA that turns the child away, it’s INDIVIDUALS that do so and by their own choice. And the whole notion that if government somehow controlled all healthcare that such situations would magically disappear is preposterous. It’s just another leftist pipe dream for another program that will fail miserably as they all do and cost way more in the long run than is ever projected today. By the way, that cost is not only in dollars and cents, but in consequences to the healthcare system and society that are not ever considered by leftists, statist nutjobs in the first place. Every single program has unintended negative consequences and they always outweigh any benefits the program was supposed to offer by so-called “solving” a problem. Case in point: the welfare state started by the Great Society programs. This has been a complete and absolute social disaster from the beginning. More social ills have been created by the establishment and expansion of a dependency class than any problems the originators of the plans sought to address. And TRILLIONS have been thrown down that hole for nothing! Obamacare will be yet another disaster for America. The entire thing should be thrown in the garbage. If we want to insure people who are poor, there is no need to build a massive federal bureaucracy to accomplish that objective. This whole Obama care is NOT about healthcare, but about expansion of the role of government over individual American’s lives. Plain and simple. Have a nice day!

    • jbg9617

      and how is that bunker you have in your basement? when the big one is dropped I am sure you will be well equipped with guns and lots of amo to keep your neighbors away from your stuff.

      • ObozoMustGo

        only the leftist nutjobs like you will be denied!

    • ChristoD

      Obozo. Clever. Let me see, you must be white, over 50 and dumb as a post. I think that covers it. Obozo huh ? Let me see, you finished high school after three years of struggling with gym, right ? You own a trailer and some other stuff that you carry in your pick up truck that is 20 years old. You are about as original as a turkey and a little slower than one, right ?

      Have a nice day Mr Einstein !

    • ChristoD

      Obozo. Clever. Let me see, you must be white, over 50 and dumb as a post. I think that covers it. Obozo huh ? Let me see, you finished high school after three years of struggling with gym, right ? You own a trailer and some other stuff that you carry in your pick up truck that is 20 years old. You are about as original as a turkey and a little slower than one, right ?

      Have a nice day Mr Einstein !

      • ObozoMustGo

        Dead wrong on your demographic supposition. I hope you’re not in marketing. You should consider a career change. But, please keep the insults coming. They say more about you than they do about me. Sometimes they’re funny, too. And dont bother refuting what I said. I know your leftist nutjob strategies better than you do! Have a nice day!

      • ObozoMustGo

        Dead wrong on your demographic supposition. I hope you’re not in marketing. You should consider a career change. But, please keep the insults coming. They say more about you than they do about me. Sometimes they’re funny, too. And dont bother refuting what I said. I know your leftist nutjob strategies better than you do! Have a nice day!

        • Okoroafor

          Obozo, Let me use you analogy in responding. You emphasize personal responsibilty, but yet rail against having individuals pay for their own healthcare. In the 1990s, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney et al, all believed that an insurance mandate was necessary in other to stop folks from mooching off everyone else. But now that Obama has adopted it, it must be bad. I put it to you that your dislike of the Affordable Health care Law has nothing to do with whether the policy is right or wrong, but based solely on the fact that Obama proposed it. The Heritage Foundation proposed this same Mandate, but as soon as Obama adopted it, it must be no good. What a bunch of hateful hypocrites!

        • ChristoD

          OK Mr. Obozo guy. I was in marketing and was pretty decent at what I did. Made me some VERY serious $$’s. Insults ? I thought I was complimenting your brilliant use of juvenile terms….Obozo is about as original as soap. Well done ! You have obviously been watching and obeying the commands of your FOX friends. As for what it says what about me. Let me see, I am white, over 65, handsome, VERY intelligent and compared to your ingenious use of a clowns name am Summa Cum Brigter….. ;-)…..Why would I refute what a brilliant guy like you uses as rebuttal since you have used up all the right wing dope words of limited intelligence such as ‘leftist’, ‘nutjob’, ‘strategies’ (whoa that is a big word for you to be using, do you know what it means ?0. Later Gator and oh by the way, please come up with ONE just ONE original insult, your use of the common place crap is boring.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Christo… over 65? how’d you get through this world without wandering out into traffic?

          • ChristoD

            Brilliant reply Mr ObozoMustGo. As I suspected you bailed out when you realized you don’t have an original thought. Thanks for proving me right. Time for you to go and learn the latest asinine words and phrases to use to demonize and condemn on FOX. God only knows being constructive would be a disaster since suggestions to fixing problems would be limited to tax decreases for the rich. You and your party are pathetic.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Dont get your panties in a knot, Christo. You still have not replied to a single point I made. Keep the insults coming though, I like them. And I like the fact that a leftitst nutjob like you keeps coming back for more. And please, wipe the drool off your chin, will you? Have a nice day!

          • ChristoD

            Left wing nutjobs….hmmmmm, let me see, so far the Obozo man has, let me count them, ZERO original comments. You not only are a right wing nutjob (thanks for the help in describing your sorry ass) but don’t have the brain power to create just ONE original comment. I’m totally bored. I’m outta here. Why don’t you go and check on the arsenal of semiautomatic guns you have stored for the great battle with Satan (Obama….PRESIDENT Obama, that is) when he takes the oath of office for a second time in 2012. I can’t wait for the onslaught of non-original comments coming from Delusionville (aka the Republican party) after that happens and it WILL for sure. 😉

    • I concur if individuals decide they choose not to pay for it. If they seek treatment and the hospitals and doctors choose to treat and bill them for their services directly again their choice. They would end up paying alot more than they bargained for. If they are turned away, then so be it.

    • Until you have walked in my shoes and been turned down and told the only way to get healthcare is go to the emegency room you have no right. It is about healthcare and the fact that millions of Americans are paying for those who do not have insurance.

      • ObozoMustGo

        I dont need to walk a mile in your shoes. Taxpayers probably paid for them, anyway. And I sure as hell dont owe you a damned thing for your healthcare. That’s your business AND responsibility, not mine. You want health insurance, work for it! Get off your lazy a$$ and make your own way in the world. Why the hell do I or anyone else owe you anything? WHY???? The only caveat that I will make to my statement is if you are NOT really and truly able bodied or able minded. I’m good with helping those that cannot help themselves and how that is accomplished effectively is a good debate. But your mentality that you are OWED something you did not earn to be paid for by someone else who does earn is a disgusting, low life, dependent’s mentality. What the heck is happening in America when people believe that it’s OK to make a living off of their neighbor’s wages? When did it become acceptable to live off “the system”? Have a nice day!

    • Boolynnie

      So who should pay for the unisured when they get ill or hurt? There are working class people that refuse to purchase health insurance from their place of employment and employees allow that option. It’s the responsible working class that purchase health insurance that ends up paying for the ones that opt out. So they go to the emergency rooms and apply for MA and the taxpayers foot the bill. Insurance cost skyrocket year after year, the more paying in to Obamacare would give the ones paying their insurance relief.

    • The healthcare industry model has removed responsibility for one’s health from the individual. Society encourages the young and healthy to work too hard, study too hard, play sports too hard, party too hard, compete in everything, go until exhausted.
      What do kids learn about caring for their health? Nothing. They are told, go, go ,go until it sickens you and Big Pharma and Big Doctor will save you — if you have big bucks or expensive health insurance.
      If healthcare could become affordable, it would diminish the temptation to institute big, dangerous programs like Obamacare. The healthcare industry has a monopoly and extravagant prices. Health and lifestyle education; and preventative and alternative medicine are not considered.

      • ObozoMustGo

        The surest way to increase supply of a good or service is to open it up to competition for profits. If the profits are there to me made, I can assure you competition will increase. And an increase in competition results in better services for better prices.

        Our problem has been twofold: 1) What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

        Do you understand what I have put forth here? The economic principles dont change just because it’s healthcare or auto care or whatever care. If we want to screw ourselves and our healthcare system, just keep on supporting Obozocare. Like the night follows the day, the outcome is already known. Have a nice day!

    • Your argument is filled with huge, gaping holes and therefore, does not hold water.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Where are the holes, Shirley? Surely you can do more than just criticize, cant you?

    • angloir

      Obamacare is dead…there’s no doubt about it. The main reason is that it was a terrible bill, poorly promoted by Obama who totally failed to explain what was in it. It should have been possible to explain the main bill on 2 pages. I supported Obama in :08 BUT I will find it hard to do so this fall. Frankly, unliked Clinton, he seeme incapable of governing. Those aaround him seem clueless. For example, the Supreme Court presentation by the solicitor general was terrible……reminds me of Laurence Tribe back in 2000 pleasding the case for Gore. The country needs a national insurance bill but Obama is not the person to do it.

      • ObozoMustGo

        From your keyboard to God’s screen!

    • angloir

      The US is the only major country without a national medical insurance and resulting high costs but not the highest care. A hospital may not let you die BUT they can and do refuse to handle those without insurance. Or, if they do, your are indentured to them for life.

    • rustacus21

      Its called the “Peoples” Health Care & tho not perfect, is considerably better than allowing, oh say Blue Cross to over charge their customers & gain 5 billion in profit surplus (as of 2010). I think, as a non-profit, they me be do over charging just a little… Or the CEO of health-care giant McKesson Corp., made $46 million last year, while they, among many other health care co.’s continue pushing up premium costs. Big Eddie Schultz, on a recent program, revealed his policy is running close to $1200.00/month!!! How many average, ordinary wage earners can afford those prices? Romney, just the other day, said if U get sick & are w/out a policy, U should be allowed to DIE! Funny that the ‘…general welfare…’ provision of the Constitution is exactly what this policy represents, in defense of the nations citizens, against that which they’re unable to protect themselves (preditory, greedy business practices) from. The Constitution is the nations basic frame work on how the people, government & all other entities interact. If Congress doesn’t have the guts to act on behalf of the nations citizens & citizens are too dumb to realize they’re being exploited, due to ideological incoherence (& plain ignorance!!!), then the Prez is the last line of defense. If U’r unable to buy a hi-priced h.c. policy, a major illness happens (God forbid) & is an immediate emergency, U will do what? Well, listening to U & other Conservatives, U die! This isn’t the America Liberals invented. In fact, Conservatives were nowhere around when the Revolutionary war was waged – xcept on the side of the British!!! Now, U’r experts on what is & isn’t Constitutional, legal or even affordable?! The trillions U’r referring to was money wasted & stolen by the same administration that was SCT installed & run by corporate criminals & thieves. Every $$$ spent by this administration has been accounted for. Its also called ‘investment’ in America & in Americans. Not 1% of Americans. Not just rich Americans (which U definantly AREN’T, or U w0uld be wasting time posting nonsense here!!! U’d have a [email protected] politician do it 4 U), but ALL AMERICANS…

      • ObozoMustGo

        rustacus….. I thought you got lost with your crack pipe dude! Nice to see you back. I enjoy your foolish posts that exposé you for the angry socialist that you are. Somehow, I don’t believe Ed Schultz pays that much for health insurance since he’s a leftist parasite like you that schemes to get others to pay his own freight. the concept that you can

        • rustacus21

          Typically, it’s Cons who do the drugs; mine is wine – strictly, in order to ‘massage’ the brain cells – not do like U & destroy ’em w/the hard stuff… & speaking of, it’s sad that U Cons R the 1’s w/anger issues, being had 4 suckers & all by GWB & his confederacy, robbing, stealing & killing their way to making America into a ghetto (from what it was b4 & after 12/12/00 – look that 1 up & see if starts to make SENSE 2 U YET!!!)… Meantime, re-read the Constitution, which is where I get ALL my reference stuff I put here; this may xplain Y U & U’r cave clan think the ‘Social Contract’ is ‘socialism’, when we could have, had it been up 2 Cons of 1775, remained under the same boot-heel Cons in this curr age are trying to re-PLACE the WHOLE of American society back(wards) to… under control of (monarchical-monied) elites, who don’t give a rats [email protected] about U or U’r votes. By the way, the $$$ U guys unleashed on the system is nothing more than extortion/payoff cash to those who will/won’t play the game the way the $$$ says!!! Now tell me, why can’t Mr. Obama, per the new $$$ rules, get his pre-1/29/09 agenda in gear, post-1/21/09? This time, say something intelligent & COHERENT, PLEASE!!! G’day…

        • rustacus21

          To ‘TheBozo’… if U listened 2 Big Eddie, U’d know that fact 4 sure!!! I do… & the parasites, their the Conservative [email protected] who get pimped 4 all the cash they make, in letting ‘pre-written’ LEGISLATION (google ‘ALEC Exposed’ for more detail) wind its way into law – a by-product of the trillions spent by the rich & corporations, on lobbying & campaign contributions, to get & keep Republican/Conservative majorities – for just such circumstances! Again, if U listened to Big Eddie, these are simple, common knowledge FACTS – info that not even a bozo like U could misinterpret…

          • ObozoMustGo

            Gotta hand it to you rustacus. You have crack pipe logic down cold!

  • These idiots have yet to think how much more its going to cost the tax payer to prosecute this law you cannot force the poor to buy insurance hell. People are having trouble feeding there families and they want you to buy healthcare with what our looks. These idiot’s are just purely stupid. All I can say sure hope the three meals and the cot are comfortable. And they better make the prison’s bigger cause there going to need them….

    • If you choose not to have coverage that is your personal choice. Therefore, let the hospitals and doctors bill you if they decide to treat you or turn you away from their doors.

    • If you choose not to have coverage that is your personal choice. Therefore, let the hospitals and doctors bill you if they decide to treat you or turn you away from their doors.

  • Churchlady320

    This is hype. The justices, esp. Kennedy, know that health care is the ONLY thing mandated to be given to everyone to save their lives. The question is HOW we pay for it. Hospitals, doctors, and taxpayers are all on the hook for uncompensated care. Since this is not the equivalent of broccoli or sedans or blue jeans, it has very different requirements. Justice Kennedy said that at the end of his questioning – if people do not accept some kind of personal responsibility for their coverage, then it is an intolerable burden on us all. We don’t have to compensate you for your private purchases. We DO have to pick up the burden on your health. The alternative is indeed to utterly change our society so that we do not take people to the hospital and do not provide life saving help. We did that in the 19th century and it’s horrific. So unless you want to blow off having some form of coverage and take your chances of bleeding to death by the highway, then yes, the government likely will be permitted to require your coverage. If you believe in “personal responsibility” it DOES begin here.

  • Churchlady320

    This is hype. The justices, esp. Kennedy, know that health care is the ONLY thing mandated to be given to everyone to save their lives. The question is HOW we pay for it. Hospitals, doctors, and taxpayers are all on the hook for uncompensated care. Since this is not the equivalent of broccoli or sedans or blue jeans, it has very different requirements. Justice Kennedy said that at the end of his questioning – if people do not accept some kind of personal responsibility for their coverage, then it is an intolerable burden on us all. We don’t have to compensate you for your private purchases. We DO have to pick up the burden on your health. The alternative is indeed to utterly change our society so that we do not take people to the hospital and do not provide life saving help. We did that in the 19th century and it’s horrific. So unless you want to blow off having some form of coverage and take your chances of bleeding to death by the highway, then yes, the government likely will be permitted to require your coverage. If you believe in “personal responsibility” it DOES begin here.

  • paulzahn

    The headline assumes we all want Socialism, and they believe trying to legislate from the bench to unconstitutionally transform America into their idea of “fairness” is OK??? Thank God we have Justices that believe in our Constitution, and will protect it, as they are sworn to.

  • paulzahn

    The headline assumes we all want Socialism, and they believe trying to legislate from the bench to unconstitutionally transform America into their idea of “fairness” is OK??? Thank God we have Justices that believe in our Constitution, and will protect it, as they are sworn to.

  • The GOPstapo keeps saying there is nothing else which the government coerces you to do except buy health insurance or else pay a fee. Actually there are, in fact it’s almost anything that involves coercion upon a particular category or class – e.g., I shall not be allowed to collect SS unless I get a job and start paying into it. There is also coercion by the State(s) for State issued Photo IDs whether you drive or not. In NYS you’re not allowed in Federal Court without one. So much for free access to the Courts. I mean what are they saying – hey wait a minute you don’t look like a person, show me some ID? You can’t board an airplane without one and now States are saying you can’t vote without one; and as far as that goes you can’t leave the country without a Federal photo ID – it’s called a passport. So if you ever work you have to pay SS either by exaction from your employer or yourself whether you;re able to ever collect it or not; and if you won’t ever be compelled to use a photo ID, why does the State(s) insist you have to have one? I don’t see any GOPstapo bitching about any of that. Having a government fund – a single payer system is the way to go, but still, that has nothing to do with the issue at hand nor those similarities I’ve raised

    • ObozoMustGo

      blazintommyd… you can go hit your bong again. The coast is clear! And since you’re an artist and social radical, dont you have an OWS camp you can go to so you can get laid and crap on cop cars? Just askin……………

      By the way, I suppose you support the idea of collecting SS without paying for it, correct?

      • I’ll never turn down any handout as long as there’s no quid pro quo; and now that you mention it, Pot is a great example of something the government forces me to not use – which is a naturally occurring plant: but not only does the government force me not to use it they also exact money from me to pay people to arrest me or anyone else caught using it, growing it or even possessing it. Talk about work fare and handouts, Sheeesh. So why aren’t you freedom Loving GOPstapos complaining about that?

        • ObozoMustGo

          Blazin… Of course you won’t turn down a handout, especially if you don’t have to work for it or pay something back. Thats why you are a leftist nutjob. Your attitude is exactly the cultural problem that afflicts America. You actually believe that you are entitled to the labor of another man without earning it! That’s disgusting and shameful you loser! Where’s your personal pride? Are you so low that you think you can’t provide for yourself? What a bum. You should starve. And I mean that!

          Re: pot. Put your misconceptions aside. 90% of the conservatives I know don’t give a damn if you bake or not. Pot should be legal like alcohol and you should be free to smoke yourself into oblivian if you want. Just don’t ask me to pay for it or the consequences of your actions when you become a parasite to everyone else. Problem is that I suspect you will expect for others to pay for your abuse and the consequences of your own actions. I think I’m right on this.

          • Business ought to pay me and similarly situated citizens reparations for depriving us of access to the earth so that we might otherwise provide for our own subsistence. Whereas all money comes from government and I being a citizen by birth I do not approve of the preferred position of business over my right to life, which now for the sole sake of business would leave me no other recourse than to surrender in servitude thereto; and thus without said reparation, said arrangement is a coerced act of despotism, in which case, business, is the only social parasite; and yet as your religion claims, the meek shall inherit the earth. Consequently, said reparation is a small price business shall pay for the privilege of doing business in their brief mortal existence. Those that are successful in life, never complain of it, those that feign success or long for success in their failure are the only ones I know of that carry on like you, suggesting that such minute fee is taking bread off your table, while at the same time cheering inter alia when 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles deployed by the US military and thence exploded – at mine and yours expence – into the sovereign nation of Libya at a price of $150 million a piece and all in one day is presumably of no consequence at all. Such attitude and disposition on your part, merely shows a treacherous bully, a Simon Legree at best, eager to abuse the meek for his weakness in opposing the full coercive power of the US military and yet neither of which he has a whit of control of. So it is this entire arrangement that is coerced by government and which I want no part of as a Free person and yet you would force me to participate before I might have a breath of air, if you could find some way to corner it. I pity your abject and decrepit frustrations. But what exactly is it that you do besides shit and where do you think food for that comes from, outer space?

          • ObozoMustGo

            My apologies blazintommyd… I thought you were stoned. Now, I am convinced that y0ur all kook’d up on crack. Do you cook your own or do you just steal from others so you can buy your vials? My hunch is that you dont earn a friggin thing for yourself in your miserable existence! Keep putting up posts like this. You do us conservatives a HUGE favor by exposing yourself and the crackpot views of the left. Thank you! Now hurry up, your crack pipe is awaiting his best buddy! Have a nice day!

          • O actually this is supposed to be for you – “USA, Conservatives, represent”.

  • lexi001

    You people complain about abuser’s of the system, i.e., emergency room use with no insurance, doctor bills unpaid, medicaid having to step in for those who qualify for it. Who do you think pays for that now? Do you not understand that is one of the reasons medical costs are so high? Does it not compute that as the medical costs go up there goes the insurance premiums? I’ve yet to hear anyone come up with a plan to solve the issue of health care. Everyone at some time or another will need medical care, I don’t care who you are. The current system in place, where insurance companies are making millions, makes no sense. Call it capitalism if you wish. I call it thievery. Let the insurance companies determine who is entitled to be covered, as they now do. As for you Bozo, if you don’t believe that people are turned away for lack of insurance, you’re sadly mistaken. You say you are not responsible for the items you listed; yes you are. Because you pay for this one way or another. It seems if you can’t see it being taken from you directly, you think it isn’t being done? How naive’ can one be? If anyone out there, whether it be these corrupt politicians making laws that benefit big business, or one of you geniuses posting on here, please let everyone know the REAL answer to this dilemma. The answer is not that if you can’t afford health care you don’t deserve to be taken care of because then that is exactly what they’re saying when people use the phrase “let him die”. What other way can anyone with half a brain interpret that kind of thinking? You extremist call health care a privilege, not a right. I have to presume that the only people that would ever dare make a statement like that are well covered for medical, or they simply have not had a catastrophic medical situation YET in their life. First and foremost, admit there is a problem. Don’t just spout off as though any of the lunatics that are running now have any answers that you will be happy with, because THEY are not out there looking to make your life better, Bozo. To be against the President at any cost, as it appears to be amongst those wanting so desperately to get rid of him, that you don’t care who the hell gets in, is the height of ignorance.

  • To Baggers/ cons / Repubs ‘ Understand this fact . You are already ( OVER ) paying for the ininsured thru higher insurance premiums, hospital bills, , emergency room visits, and MD fees. ! So called Obamacare’ ( aka Romneycare ) already helps millions And Will do more over time. This will save taxpayers money . Under Obamacare Students are now covered to age 26. Pre existing illness covered. Kids as well. No dollar limit on coverage. New rule: Insurance CO must spend 80 % or more om health care, not on multi million dollar salaries. and ads. Basic health care should NOT be for profit !
    No family should lose all they have because of an illness. Medicare brought millions of seniors out of poverty . Medicaid helps mostly kids and old folks in who spent all and are in nursing homes waiting to die. Shame of us for being so selfish and ill informed o n this urgent issue . Learn the facts not Fox & Rush misinfo & lies

    • ObozoMustGo

      I am consistently surprised at how many people here watch Fox or listen to Rush. Very noteworthy.

  • We all have to buy auto coverage for the safety of all concerned
    Medicare for all who want it

  • Obozo I would guess that you are the Exact opposite of what ChristoD suggests. I was say you are probably well to do, with a good job and health care insurance provided.

    But you don’t take into account those like my 24 year old daughter who works 2 jobs and can barely make ends meet. Her main job is for a well known company which keeps her at under 40 hours a week so they can avoid giving her any benefits. When she gets sick she must suffer because just a visit to the care unit (No ER) wosts her $100.00 plus, not including the high cost of medicine. She cannot afford that. And she makes too much to qualify for government help. She, as with MANY others is caught between a Rock and a Hard place.

    When I hear the Ultra Right (Protect the Rich, at the expense of the Poor) idiots, I have to say that it is scary. They DID Cheer about letting the 30 year old without Health Insurance Die, and that is a fact! If these people are governing our Country, that God Forbid what will happen.

    Did you know that in the last 16 years, about 50% of the middle class has moved into Poverty and at the same time 1% of the people in this country now have more than 25% of the total wealth! But I suppose that is the direction you want to go? If you are NOT part of that 1% then I really don’t know how you can justify your position.

    I think the Current Repubblican mantra comes from Charles Dickens “Let them Die and Decrease the Surplus Population”

    • ObozoMustGo

      Much more correct than Christo. As to your daughter’s struggles… helloooo… that’s what it means to work for what you want. You should be proud she’s pulling her own weight, not full of pity. Since when was working 2 jobs a crime? Since when was busting your a$$ to survive something to look down on? Are you telling me that she would rather be on the dole that earn her own way? If it was my daughter, I would be ashamed she was taking from the government.

      Think of it this way…. At 24, she is not likely to need healthcare other than remotely possible catastrophic for quite some time. Who cares if it costs her $100 to go to urgent care? Does she realize that she would be paying 20 to 30 times that much in a year out of her paycheck for the luxury of only paying $25 in copay for the same visit? Does she?

      And no… I’m not one of those so-called 1%, but I sure as heck want to be one. Dont you? Doesn’t anyone want to work and achieve? (I know, not everyone wants to achieve financial success.) But our problem as conservatives is NOT that we defend those who have achieved so much as we defend those who WANT TO achieve. We defend those who are ambitious and create businesses that creates jobs that people work at. And the more barriers you nutjobs on the left put up in front of us, the more difficult it is to achieve. The more you take, the less incentive we have to take risks. Do you think Buffett cares what tax rates are? Well, bad example because while he says he should be paying more, he’s in a court battle to avoid paying back taxes since 2002. Dont believe me, look it up.

      Regarding your “poverty” stats…. First off, poverty in America is not really poverty like we think when we hear the word spoken. Poverty to me is a kid with flies in his face and a distended stomach. Poverty to me is living in a shanty town with no fresh water and open sewers. Poverty is NOT what we have in America. Lets just get that straight right here and now. Someone that has cell phones, cable TV, microwaves, food in the fridge, attends professional sporting events, and has heat and roof over their head IS NOT IN POVERTY! Sorry. They are not. Those are the conditions of the average person on public assistance. Dont get all emotional and cooked up in the use of the word poverty. Poverty happens to be a very good business in America. Too bad!

      Moving on from misleading statistics, let us consider the alternative to a free society and free market economics. In a socialist/ communist society, all of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few political and military leaders there are. Meanwhile, all the people are equally dirt poor and have horrible living conditions. Dont belive me?????? The most perfect example of socialism versus free market economics is North versus South Korea. Tell me where you would rather live. No dont bother answering, I assume you are at least honest enough to say the South. People in the North are starving to death. The example is right in front of us for all to see, yet we still hear the mantra 1% vs. 99%. We still hear “eat the rich”. We sill hear the same old communist and socialist banter coming from so many in America. And especially the OWS bums. WHY? Dont you people get it? Cant you see that your jealousy and envy of others clouds your vision into believing in a collectivist ideal that CAN NEVER be achieved and actually results in more of that which you protest against? Dont you get it?

      Have a nice day!

  • majong13

    Dear Obozo, You say that you are only responsible for you healthcare and your healthcare costs. And that should be the case for all of us. Everyone should have their own healthcare insurance so that the rest of us don’t have to pay more when those uninsured people go to the hospital. You don’t seem to realize that you pay higher premiums and pay more for healthcare because so many are not paying anything. You are paying for them. Don’t you get it?

    • ObozoMustGo

      majong13… I get your point, I really do. But the fact that we even have this discussion over the concept of a person getting something for nothing while expecting his neighbor to pick up the tab is disgusting. It’s a reflection of the entitlement culture.

      Do really you think that adding 30 million people to the healthcare system (read increasing demand) that already does not have enough workers (read lowering supply) will lower the price? That rationale doesnt pass the smell test, dude. You know I’m right if you have ANY understanding of basic business or economics. That’s like saying now that the government is in the middle of the transaction (wich increases costs) that somehow the transaction is cheaper? I know the leftists and Obozo have been selling that garbage and many of you lick it up like flies on poop, but it doesnt mean it’s true. There is NO way in hell that healthcare costs will go down with Obozocare. Shoot, they’ve gone up 9% on average since the passage of the damned bill. Name me a single thing that government does that is cheaper than the private sector and is not taxpayer subsidized. Name one! There are none. Have a nice day!

  • majong13

    Dear Obozo, I guess that you do not realize that you pay more for healthcare and more for your insurance premiums because so many people are not covered. It is those of us who are covered that pay more because we have to cover hospital expenses for those who cannot. If the mandate becomes law your costs will go down. But…… I guess you like paying more.

  • montanabill

    Gee, if everybody just would agree with Conason and other progressives, we could all just stop work and go on the dole. Free food, a regular monthly check, free healthcare, free school (but who would need to go), all paid for by…wait a minute, who would pay?

    • ObozoMustGo

      Montanabill… there you go again… thinking rationally… STOP IT! The leftist nutjobs on this site dont like that sort of thinking. 🙂

  • Tim Meyer

    Good, Joe. Carvin is on record that The Affordable Health Care for America Act is constitutional. Associate Justice Kennedy said to Solicitor General Verrilli,

    “. . . the reason this is concerning, is because it requires the individual to do an affirmative act. In the law of torts our tradition, our law, has been that you don’t have the duty to rescue someone if that person is in danger. The blind man is walking in front of a car and you do not have a duty to stop him absent some relation between you. And there is some severe moral criticisms of that rule, but that’s generally the rule.”

  • No, the law not being enacted won’t lead to people being refused admittance to healthcare. But, if nothing is done to control costs and people can’t pay for it, how many hospitals will have to close. A lot of hospitals around where I live are continuing to cut staff because they don’t receive all the money that they are supposed to get for care. They treat more people who lost their ability to pay all the time. So, what is the alternative? Maybe this law wasn’t the answer. But, it was hope for hospitals to get more operating money. Maybe the effect won’t be intentional, but if poor area’s hospitals can’t stay open due to lack of money coming in, indeed the result will be to ‘let him die’.

  • ratherupset

    Does anyone know what the cost to the American tax payer is for all the free coverage for past and present members of congress and the senate? Why should they get free health care for life when we’re all paying thru the nose for it (and theirs as well). Maybe if they were required to pay for their own health coverage they could address the problem of universal coverage for all. But then again all of these people we have elected could most likely pay their premiums rather easily. Neither party is willing to work with each other to address the problem because they don’t want anyone to get credit for accomplishing ANYTHING! I’m not a young person but I have to say I’m embarrassed by the lack of cooperation to resolve any issues that will help society. What has happened to the American people who accept this childish bickering between the parties. I could care less if you’re a Republican or a Democrat lets do whats best for America! Do something about health care costs for the general public and stop paying for these politicians benefits!! They can afford it them selves!!!

  • Rod

    More lying, liberal, leftist comments from the most biased and worthless news source on the ‘net. Why do I continue to even check the news on LyHoo???

  • And the American taxpayer definitely wants to pay for illegal alien healthcare

  • howa4x

    Obozo
    The problem with a free market economy is that issues emerge that don’t fit the model. Usually its business that says its not our job to deal with social issues, so the government steps in. FDR created gocvernment programs that actually built the middle class. LBJ created the great society to deal with poverty and slum conditions in the cities and rural areas We had poverty because business didn’t create enough jobs. If business did that we wouldn’t need government programs. Same with the economic meltdown in 08. We could have said hey you got yourselves into this mess now get out, but all the pension funds were tied into this as well as all the IRA’s so we couldn’t. So we did a great society program for all the banks, and the auto companies as well. Problem is Republicans have no real use for the poor, or elderly, and there isn’t one social program that can be attributed to any of them. they wrap the cloke of patriotism, the flag and religion around themselves and give the wealth of the middle class to those who are most fortunate. They claim they are the party of god because they are against pre marital sex but care little for the most vulnerable. The real issue here is that since the 1940’s Democrats have seen everyone in America as someone worthy of a helping hand to get out of poverty or get health care, and Republicans see americans as rich and white.

  • The problem is the insurance companies are overseeing your health via mandating/dictating to physicians what they can and cannot do. The entire system is corrupt.
    “The surest way to increase supply of a good or service is to open it up to competition for profits. If the profits are there to be made, I can assure you competition will increase. And an increase in competition results in better services for better prices.”

    Unfortunately that theory has been tested and proven to not work in the same way “trickle down economics” has not worked. It has made insurance companies richer and the top 10% exponentially richer than the rest because of one word: GREED.

  • People who are poor will have coverage via a system that is already in place. This is a mandate for people who have the ability to purchase insurance but cannot because of pre-existing conditions and various other reasons…. one of which is because they don’t believe they will get sick because they are young… the list goes on and on for possible variables. The mandate is for your protection so you aren’t paying for someone else’s irresponsible choices via your health care premiums going up; doctor visits going up in price, etc….

  • solver63

    If the individual mandate “dies” the death that is being headlined (HARDBALL as I write this) healthcare will take a perilous turn for the worse. I am an independent Insurance broker, I offer health plans (I say offer because here in SC folks can’t afford my least expensive plans) This I do know for certain, Insurance Co’s are going to have increases – Big ones – they feel the need to try to “recoop” their losses from any of the laws that have taken effect. The way healthcare is going and looks like where it is headed is a very bad place, bad for the millions of un and under insured, bad for the healthcare “corps” (Doctors, Hospitals, Drug co’s, etc.) and bad for the Insurance co’s. Why? How? The people are obvious, the Docs and hopitals will suffer because of lack of payment by the uninsureds – AND – The Insurance co’s because we will see individuals and companies and mom & Pop business’ dropping coverages due to cost. The blow back will for sure hurt and hurt the GOPTEA liars and treasonists in a major way (BOO – F ‘ ING – HOO) Maybe this will be the final nail in the “party of haves” coffin. The unfortunate collateral damage, as always in our “one way” country is us, the workers, bill payers, VOTERS – We get screwed by the 1% again, pissed on by the paid off, useless, Supreme court and congress AGAIN. This country needs Medicare for all, I am a in the insurance business and have looked at this solution from every angle . I come up with so many positives I can’t list them all here – good for the people, good for the economy, just GOOD. The only ones I see getting hurt ? Insurance co’s and elected and appointed officials whose insurance is paid for by us taxpayers – Again Boo – F ‘ing – HOO. This should be an awakening to everyone about Who and What care about US and not winning back power and their pocket books. Nice country America – The nicest country money can buy.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Like I’ve posted elsewhere in this thread….

      What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. Force them into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

      As an insurance guy, you should know this. You should also know the dire consequences to your own situation of a government takeover. On the one hand you do know that because you cant sell policies, on the other hand you dismiss the very reason why you cant sell policies and in fact call it a solution. This contradiction makes me think that maybe you are not an insurance plan salesman. And especially, I dont know any salesman worth his weight in salt that thinks like an OWS bum in terms of 1% vs. 99%. At least good salesmen dont think like that. You suckers have bought off on that class warfare crap so hard it’s amazing. Just amazing.

      Hey, I’m here to help and try to straighten any one out that is wise enough to begin the transformation from being a brain dead liberal into being a rational and logical human being. If you find that your views really dont fit with the way the world works… if you find that you have an urge to make the world around you fit into your views of it… well, your someone that I can help. Feel free to ask anytime.

      Have a nice day!

  • You are missing the point. Brandy is making an excellent point. Health care costs skyrocket for those who are paying their premiums because someone who would like to purchase insurance cannot due to pre-existing conditions. They are left uninsured not because they don’t want to be insured but because the insurance companies will not insure them… they are turning their money down…. get it??? This means they are left to present themselves to the ER or are hospitalized as uninsured and those costs get passed on to the people who are fortunate enough to not have a pre-existing condition. People who are inflicted with cancer etc…. are not to blame.

  • Obozo… you are spewing lies and idealogies. Yes, I do think that adding 30 million people to the healthcare system will lower the price. It is you who does not understand basic economics or business. Insurance companies will be forced to be fair and honest when people begin to have a choice. The biggest difference will be their inability to reject someone based on pre-existing conditions. Imagine the shot in the arm this will give the health care industry to have millions more insured?? There are other checks and balances that are in the AHCA that will keep insurance companies honest. They have been raping America just as hard as the Oil industry and Wall Street bankers,etc…
    The analogy of naming one thing the government does that is cheaper than the private sector is a bogus analogy and does nothing to prove that affordable health care for all is not only the responsible thing to do, it is the rational and realistic thing to do. Btw….. the fact that there aren’t enough workers isn’t a good argument either….. considering this fact will not only create more jobs in the private sector, it will increase revenue for the government. Are you saying that there is a direct correlation to a 9% increase in health care costs to the AHCA? If so, please provide proof of that statement.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Shirley, clearly you must be missing your crack pipe. How do you add 30 million and costs go down? Only in leftist nutjob world does such foolishness pass as “logic”. You have read all the talking points of the socialists well, but it just doesn’t pass the smell test. You are what we call a useful idiot because you drink the koolaide and try to sell it everyone else. Nice try but no sale!

      • shmichel

        you lower the cost adding 30 million by spreading rthe risk over a much larger group of people. Thats how insurance works.

        • ObozoMustGo

          shmichel… thank God you’re not running an insurance company. Investors would be screwed. Do any of you leftist nutjobs think beyond cliche’s and trite statements? Do you? HELLOOOO.. MCFLY… IS THERE ANYONE IN THERE? Your theory runs aground right off the bat because you cant add 30 million to an insurance pool WHO DO NOT PAY and still spread the risk. And by the way, forcing all of the other paying customers to pick up the tab for those that dont pay IS NOT SPREADING THE RISK. ITS INCREASING THE RISK! And dont forget all of the overhead required to administer those 30 million who dont pay. Hmmmm… didnt really think about that, did you?

          Our problem has been twofold: 1) What we have is NOT health INSURANCE. We actually have PREPAID, highly regulated healthcare. There is a difference. Set your emotions and feelings aside for a moment. Insurance is what you have on your car. It doesnt pay for your gas or maintenance. It only pays for the big problems like if you crash yourself or crash into other cars or property. It picks up the big items. That’s insurance and car insurance is VERY competitive and cheap, especially for good safe drivers. If you wanted to see car insurance explode in cost, let the government force insurance companies to pay for regular maintenance because it’s only “fair”, right. After all, some people cant afford nice cars and regular maintenance. Then set up a massive bureaucracy to have oversight of car mechanics so they’re not ripping off the system or they’re not illegally practicing auto repair. They also have to watch those greedy, profiteering insurance companies. Force mechanics and insurance companies into a tremendous amount of paperwork to verify what they are doing is right and can/should be paid for by the insurance company. What do you think will happen to the cost of car insurance? What do you think will happen to the cost of auto repair? You are right! Both will necessarily skyrocket. Then the leftist nutjobs will complain that only the 1% can afford it and that they are stealing auto service from the 99%. They will march on DC and occupy car dealers across the country. They will lobby their sympathetic politicians eager to buy more votes with yet another goodie and they will begin proposing bills for a single payer car insurance system. After all, why should those greedy insurance companies and mechanics keep screwing all of us? WHY?

          If you want to see medical costs decrease, we must remove the incentive trap that is currently our so-called health “insurance” system that convinces people of the lie that they can get something for nothing. Make plans that pay for every pill or sniffle illegal and start letting people pay for their own “routine maintenance”. Open up competition nationally for insurance. And for God’s sake, please get the government OUT of the healthcare business. I’m not saying they cant finance some for the destitute, but financing and controlling are two very different issues.

          Have a nice day!

          • You are obviously totally confused. The 30 million, who now think they’ll never need insurance, WILL pay. That’s the whole point. It’s like 10 persons at a restaurant sharing a $500 check vs. 2 persons sharing it.

          • ObozoMustGo

            If they dont pay now, why would they pay then? Oh, that’s right! they still will not pay, someone else will, right? That’s the socialist way. Like Maggie Thatcher said “the problem with socialism is that eventually, you run out of other people’s money”

          • Hugh Miles

            You have some very good points and that is what we need to have a discuss and to solve this problem that faces us ALL. For those of you who have no clue but prefer to attack others personally go do some research and come back with some solutions instead of just complaining. THAT IS GETTING US NO WHERE.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Thanks, Hugh. I don’t get a lot of love around here! As you might imagine. No worries, though. I like being in the middle of the lion’s den! 🙂

          • jnap

            Obozo, Car insurance and health insurance are not the same thing. If you neglect your car it stops running and you either fix it or go buy another one. If you neglect your health you get very sick and often require very expense medicine and procedures to get you well or, you die.
            I don’t care what kind of car you drive it is not going to cost one hundred thousand dollars to fix but that is commonly the cost for some medical procedure. Obozo, you are truly stupid.

          • ObozoMustGo

            The economic principles and incentives do not change. Human behavior and market incentives do not change. The mathematics do not change. A system that offers the perception of a service that costs a person less than it really does will be abused. The bureaucracy required to maintain that system only multiplies its costs and reduces efficient deliver of that good or service. It’s why socialized medicine is rationed everywhere it is practiced.

            You cite the high cost of life saving care like leftists always cite the extremes to support their radical proposals. But the real drag on the system that drives those costs is the routine stuff that should cost little but costs more because of cost reallocation and bureaucratic overhead to monitor all transactions.

            I don’t expect you leftist nutjobs to understand. After all, that’s why you are leftist nutjobs. But someone with a brain will read this and know I am right.

            Have a nice day!

          • You’ve convinced me. The only answer is national health, like every other developed country.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Renfield… can I also convince you to move to Cuba?

          • ottokristen

            Hey Obozo,who is paying for your health insurance?You didn’t answer me how much are your deductibles .Or are you on Mammy’s and Daddy’s insurance still?

          • ObozoMustGo

            Hi Otto. Nice to hear from you again. The answer is that I pay my own and have high copays. Don’t like the amount I pay per year because I would never spend the amount I actually pay, not even close! I would rather Pay for catastrophic and pick up the tab on my routine maintenance than to prepay for mine and cover every other mendicant that pays nothing for themselves.

        • Theodora30

          You forgot to add that a lot of those people are healthy, can afford insurance and will be paying into the system. That is how you afford it. In fact that is why insurance companies want the mandate in exchange for accepting the law’s requirement to stop refusing to insure high risk people or charge them exorbitant rates.
          Insurance only works if you have a lot of lower risk people in the pool. We are all at risk for a home fire, but the risk for each of us is not high. Still we have insurance in case we get unlucky. (Plus it’s required to get a mortgage.) Unlike health insurance most of us pay in regularly and never collect, or at least not much. We did get a new roof once. But we have paid more than enough over the years to more than pay for it. That is the only claim we have ever filed in over thirty years and it is likely the only one we will ever make. If we did not have insurance, the cost of rebuilding our house after a fire would not be shifted to anyone else the way an uninsured person’s care at an emergency room is shifted to the rest of us.

          I am sick and tired of paying higher rates to cover the cost of free riders – make that freeloaders – who can afford insurance. I am surprised Republicans aren’t. Guess they have more generous natures than I do. I am outraged by the fact that we live in the wealthiest nation of all time, pay the most by far for health care yet have an infant and maternal mortality rate well above that of other wealthy and many not-so-wealthy countries. So much for being a “Christian country”.

      • Your the Idiot! Shirley is right on. Donna

        • ObozoMustGo

          You say so because you’re an idiot and “stupid” plays so well in leftist nutjob world! You are stupid if you think adding 30m people to the demand side and nothing more to the supply side of the equation that costs go down. Really, only the most committed leftist nutjob could ignore this basic reality. You are a moron if you think otherwise. Have a nice day!

  • littlesoul

    Look hmo dictated way over priced let people die! You cannot see tbe doctors you need as most do not take hmos. Also they look for tbe cheep way out. At tbe expense of the pedsons health..if you dont have a certain hmo that tbe hospital except they do not,see you. Its very limited limited . mecicaid. People are under the asumptiln they will get tbe higb quality medical care from obama care but they will not. Its limited. Even with medicaid which is a serious joke and limited you show up in Am emergency room they do not treat you or if you are seen you,are treated like an animal and do net help or the right help. I know. Been there done that. Long hofrific story but i speak from experience and its a livivg hell. Tbey are letting ne die needlessly from something thats fixable and treatable but time was critical so cancer snd lukemia and other terminal diseases did not set in. Dont you think its strange that all gov officals are exempt from obamacare. Do you know why? Because its no,good. And they know this. Further the mandate if you do not buy gov dictated plans which are very limited you are mandated to do so. If not you are fined and if you do not pay it you go to jail! The gov now is going to spend 303 millon “to police and locate those who do not”. Where did this corupt gov get its medical degree and sincand gov pretend to know medical?? since,when does gov and what gives tbem tbe rigbt to decice who lives or dies!!!!! Thankyou [email protected]

  • TheOldNorthChurch

    If the Supreme Court rules against the mandates in the “Affordable Care Act”, it will be because they violate the contract (The Constitution) with the the American people. It little matters whether the same people who once supported mandates are now arguing against them, nor whether those that support this bill are now arguing for mandates. Both sides were /are wrong to think it would ever be appropriate for the Federal Government to interfere with individual choice or freedoms of choice of the American public.

    What needs to happen is for all interference and cronyism to once and for all be removed from the Healthcare segment. When FDA relies on fee based services for approval of drugs or devices, from large companies, we all know that those who pay the bills and hire the FDA call the shots. When Congress with the consent of the POTUS exempts large healthcare purchasing organizations from antitrust laws we all know who gets to pay the burden of manipulated cost structures – the American public.

    It is time to end the rule of the “Political Class” and their agents and regain control of our lives. We can only hope that the SOCTUS defeats this intrusion into our lives. If not, it maybe time for an American Spring.

  • So, how do we get the costs of medical services and life saving drugs undercontrol? We are all americans, some strong, some not so strong and a few old and weak. I believe if you can afford your currant medical coverage as do our elected representatives, then keep that coverage but dont deny basic medical care to those in our american society who are unable to afford the run away costs imposed by national care giving facilities and drug companies. There are other benefits if this law passes, we may effect lower costs with national consumption as opposed to individual emergency room activity. Try the plan for a couple of years, work out the kinks and feel good about our ability to help those who cant help themselves., after all, this is what national health care is all about. If it becomes a real burden and not a political football, then change it. This is american after all, supposedly the greatest and wealthiest country in our limited world, we have the power to try something different and change it if it becomes a serious national burden.

  • Americans have the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is this not all that we need to look at here ?

  • The rush to repeal the ACA is wrongheaded and full of unintended consequences. The law has already proved a postive development for millions of Americans. A repeal would force those millions back into our flawed health care system that greatly failed them in the first place. Just how can such action be construed as a postive outcome? Students and young people with pre-existing conditions will lose valuable coverage, many of whom have been denied coverage most, if not all, of their lives.

    If ACA is found unconstitutional, due to the mandate, the future of health care in this country will be set back for many years. Such action would in effect prohibit any future ‘free market’ private insurance solution from ever being proposed again. Obviously voluntary participation in the private market can’t address the issue of 35 to 50 million unisured. We have such a program now and the USA is ranked 31st out of the top 34 industrial nations in percentage of population with health insurance. It clearly is not working. To approach the dream of total participation in private insurance can only be obtained if such a program in mandatory. Repeal of ACA would preclude something of that nature being tried again.

    That leaves us with going back to the status quo before the bill became law. There is no plan B to fall back upon. The leadership of the GOP in the Senate, just days ago, stated that there will be no alternative offered. Incremental adjustment over time is their answer. They’ve not come up with one product that addresses out-of-control cost increases, or how to add millions to the rolls of the insured. Buying insurance over state lines and tort reform address a minuscule percentage of the cost curve, but they make great sound-bites to the ill informed voters. If ACA is repealed the GOP will own health care, or lack of, for years and it will be their albatross. Incrementalism is just a shell game designed to accomplish little in the way of fundamental change desperately needed in our system.

    The other option than can accomplish covering the overwhelming majority of citizens is some kind of single-payer, Medicare for all…or government run system. Little else is possible that can add 35 – 50 million to the rolls of the insured. The fight to repeal ACA as socialism just might ultimately bring about government health care as a result of short-sighted thinking in today’s debate. There is no question that Congress has the right of taxation. That has been established for many decades. The institution of Medicare for all might indeed bring up frivolous legal challenges, but even this fractured Supreme Court will not try and suggest Medicare is unconstitutional. No mandate, just funding from payroll like Social Security and Mediare are today.

    The biggest problem is that country and the government is hopelessly divided over ideology and not much interested in problem solving. We the American people are pretty much on our own. It is probably going to be a decade or so before the people rise up and demand that the law-givers get off their backsides and actually do something for the people and put aside party. Meanwhile the cost of health care will continue to rise without any legal restraint and we the insured will pay the price of what fear and distrust has brought upon us. ACA is certainly not perfect, but far superior to our present system. Let’s not toss out the bady with the bath water.

  • ONLY IN AMERICA !!! Here we have 9 people in black who have been appointed FOR LIFE, who can never be “recalled” for any reason, can keep their positions no matter what degree of decrepitude they may attain, can retire — should they so choose — at any time at full salary (at least $200,000 per year until death (with probably significant survivor’s benefits) including an undisclosed (but most assuredly comprehensive) health care for life (probably with no deductible) all of which will be paid by taxpayers.
    At least 5 of these black robes will gladly deny the people who pay their salaries (and future entitlements) the possibility of PURCHASING OUT OF POCKET — at a barely affordable level — a modicum of health coverage.
    ONLY IN 21st CENTURY AMERICA !!!!

  • Jon

    All I know is that if this medical care is defeated then the big insurance companies shall win again.. Higher premiums, no pre-conditions allowed.. just like the good old days. I don’t care if bugs bunny created a health care plan for all Americans.. Without it many are going to die.. Who then will it fall back on? As a corporation, the insurance companies ARE human and as humans, will take your
    money with open hands.. But watch how human they’ll be when someone actually gets ill. Maybe Obamacare isn’t the best plan going, but it’s the ONLY plan that was instigated.. No one else is even close to perfecting a better plan.. Oh, I get it.. “LET ‘EM DIE!!”

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I knew that you didn’t smoke pot but I still bet that you drive a pick up and have a hang over.

  • I LIKE THE OBAMA HEALTHCARE BUT WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH THOSE HOSPITAL,DRUG COMPANIES, AND DOCTORS WHO OVER CHARGE CONSUMERS DAILY. I HAVE HEARD PATIENTS SPEND 50,000.00 PER MONTH ON MEDICATION, 150,000.00 SURGERY,AND IT KEPT GETTING HIGHER. THESE PEOPLE REMIND ME OF GREEDY BANK CEO OR CORPORATE COMPANY CEO. MY FRIEND CAME IN THE HOSPITAL FOR A CHECK UP AND WAS REFER TO A SPECIALIST. HE SPENT ALMOST 2 HOURS WAITING TO SEE A DOCTOR AND SPEND LAST THAN 5 MINUTE TALKING TO THE DOCOTR. THE DOCTOR CHARGE HIM 790.OO JUST TO TALK..

  • EVA2008

    Republicans and all those who think that health care for all is a plage should just remember that the Unites States of America is the first super power on this earth and that it is the only one that does not take care of its populations the same way all other countries including the little Cuba just beside it does. Do you know that health care is FREE in Cuba??????????

  • USA, Conservatives, represent.

  • Well, personally, I hate doctors, most especially dentists and certainly every lawyer and Judge I’ve ever dealt with. Either they take your money directly and then in the case of lawyers (because after all at least one of the two has to lose) they take your hand and say afterwards “there, there, rest assured you made them pay”; or else in the case of Doctors and dentists they go to the government directly or indirectly for a handout and the government directly or indirectly pays them. Lawyers of course aren’t subsidized – yet – because communities rely on prisons for jobs; all of which was echoed by Chris Mathews the other night, “people don’t want to talk about it”. But it’s easy to talk about the USA system is a fiasco that can’t exists without subsidies. So on the one hand I don’t like the idea of the Monolith subsidizing Nexus, Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW sales or supplying collateral to facilitate loans for Unique Homes. But this is what the Bourgeoisie and their government do with everything “it’s the economy, stupid”; and on the other hand I was a victim of these creatures both at the upper level (with doctors, dentists, hospitals, directly) and then at the sado-masochistic social worker level – i.e., trying to have GOPstapo government pay my enormous hospital bill. So there are different perspectives. Personally I’d much rather the government provide subsistence to every man woman and child – that is a citizen – and then of course this one particular Karl Rove Disqus thread worker monitoring our comments here could turn it down to save his pride or whatever. But I do not favor the so called “private sector” and the “free market” left to determine the price people must pay for whatever treatment doctors judges, whatever are willing to provide preponderantly because most of these maladies are created by the private sector, particularly in regards to cancer and crime and the filthy rich don;t much care about their health because they at our expense have the wear with all to enjoy every second of it – e.g., I’ve lived a full life at 55 death where is thy sting cf I’m 75 and still waiting. So if the government is going to give handouts in the forms of tax breaks to the well to do and then further protect and subsidize them in the case of doctors with subsidies to inflate their largely inadequate symptomatic treatments, then I would favor any change from that said arrangement. So in that regard a single payer system created by the government and subsidized by the rich would be an improvement. But apparently all the present proposed system does is ensure that all of the doctors, hospitals &c are bribed to surfeit so that they will then be willing to provide whatever treatment they feel like providing as further supported by Conservative Judges willing to cover their ass and Conservatives in Congress further forbidding Judges and Juries from awarding damages to victims injured by the same.

  • Apparently they don’t understand the insurance business, Buy health insurance at the hospital when you need it REALLY?, Maybe, flood victims can by flood insurance on their cell phones as they watch their house float away, or more fire insurance as they evacuate. It’s possible.

    • rustacus21

      ‘Politics as usual’ only applies to Conservatives. If we all decide to stop voting for them, we end up w/a dynamic, diverse field of responsive, creative, engaged & RESPONSIBLE elected officials. Certainly U’r old enuff to remember the magnificent, miraculous job performed by the Clinton administration – & the utter catastrophe which followed. If U voted Conservative, by now U must understand what U’r contribution was to the disaster of 2001-2009, as well as what the tsuname of unbridled cash has done to this administration & our government overall? It’s a very simple solution. Vote Progressive/Liberal, problems solved – Guaranteed!!!

  • rustacus21

    Apparently, affordable health care is something a good deal of Americans can do w/out… that is, until they need it! Where the real problem w/this law comes down is the fact that the health care ‘intermediaries’, those making vital decisions on who gets treatments, what type (if any) & how much. There is still far too much money being controlled by the health care industry, who provide a service that is better suited for doctors &/or hospitals to provide. W/all the health care companies posting multi-billion $$$ surpluses, as well as payment & bonuses to its CEO’s, it’s obvious they’re charging far much for their premiums!!! W/no justification for either, this law obviously didn’t go far enuff, if the average premium is over $1000 per month & increasing at a double-digit rate every other year (if not yearly). So for those living in their parents basement, still on drugs, but w/out a job, this is a great deal. For avg., Middle Class Americans, it’s time to realize we’ve had enuff of this Conservative insanity & move the nation back to it’s Liberal/Progressive & Constitutional roots. Conservatives have proven yet again, their lack of understanding of Democracy, the Social Contract & the pact established long ago, between citizens & our representatives. In the same way President Clinton was able to come in & clean house in just 8 short years, its obvious that sort of brilliance will be necessary to uproot this lingering catastrophe, that’s embedded itself so deeply, that the nation’s citizenry refuses to even consider ‘they’ are government & is the final ‘voice’ on all of this. THIS is TRULY the ultimate fear of Conservatives, voter realize, as Conservatives & of the same ilk as the previous administration, they all have no credibility what so ever. The determination this election is to stop giving it to them once & for all. Or at least for another 40 year stretch, until we get the ‘house’ back in order…

  • solver63

    You are truly a MORON right wing fool – I hope Willard wins the election and your dreams come true – To stand in a bread line and eat at soup kitchens – In less your a 1%er – than just die DICK.

  • Hugh Miles

    You know what is sad this idea that calling people names changes reality and solves the problem. Arguing does not solve the problem as we can see our elected officially are doing. As any body noticed that they have not solved too many of our problems lately but every thing is all for political gain(both sides) when are we going to be AMERICANS again instead of left wing, right wing, conservatives, liberals and I have heard. To solve a problem you must analyze all the information and come up with the best solution BozoMustGo you sem to have done some of this but your political bias seems to blind you to some of the facts. Listen to the other persons point of view and ideas take off you blinkers.

  • howa4x

    Obozo god has nothing to do with running and insurance company, and in fact that are far from any biblical readings. This whole problem is caused by that fact that insurance is a business and they are there to make a profit off of your illness. Does anyone with half a brain think the insurance companies will be fair with people if the act is struck down? All the insurance companies are publically traded and have to show Wall st a 20% profit. Thats right the 1st .20 out of every dollar in health care goes to wall st. In fact Atnea was faced with an 18.5% profit the last year of Bush, and Wall st down graded their stock. Atnea responed by kicking 8.5 million people off the insurance rolls. Obama care as you republican criminals call it stopped that practice and also the practice of pre existing conditions that allowed all the insurance companies out of paying claims. The Republicans want to go back to that system since they are the real representatives of the corporate interests in this country, and their court is no exception after the citizens united ruling. The Republicans are the party of no, and have no plan for health care if this is struck down.
    I don’t think it will since no court have ever overturned a major peice of legislation, and 2 conservative lower court rulings upheld the law
    If it is struck down the reality is that the right will have the air taken out of their rage, and the left/center will be ignited. The worst nightmate for Congress and Romney is to have this struck down, and see the momentum swing the other way.