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Monday, August 21, 2017

Reprinted with permission from Media Matters. 

President-elect Donald Trump’s false claim that he “won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally” can be traced to conspiracy theorist and Trump ally Alex Jones. But multiple media reports on Trump’s falsehood failed to report the connection, which is only the latest in a growing list of conspiracy theories espoused by both Jones and the president-elect.

Trump made his claim in response to ongoing vote counting showing former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton amassing a popular vote lead of over 2 million votes.

Trump’s lie echoes a story from Infowars, the conspiracy-laden website run by Jones. Jones has promoted numerous outlandish conspiracies, including the allegation that the American government was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the Oklahoma City bombing, and that the Sandy Hook school massacre was a “false flag” event involving actors and green screens.

An Infowars story headlined “Report: Three Million Votes In Presidential Election Cast By Illegal Aliens,” which cites a tweet from “Greg Phillips of the VoteFraud.org organization,” is the basis of Trump’s fraudulent allegation.

Phillips, without providing any evidence for his claim, wrote on Twitter, “We have verified more than three million votes cast by non-citizens.”

Infowars’ Paul Joseph Watson then published an article on Phillips’ tweet that baselessly claimed, “Virtually all of the votes cast by 3 million illegal immigrants are likely to have been for Hillary Clinton, meaning Trump might have won the popular vote when this number is taken into account.” As The Washington Post explained, Infowars was vital in bringing the conspiracy theory to a wider audience — the Jones-led website’s story on Phillips’ tweet was linked near the top of the Drudge Report on November 14.

In a YouTube video entitled “Proof Donald Trump Won The Popular Vote” released following the Infowars report, Jones himself claimed “it is uncontrovertible (sic) fact that three million illegals voted” in the election and “tens of millions of people were on the voter rolls who were dead and at least four million of them voted as well,” and concluded, “Donald J. Trump didn’t just win the Electoral College in a landslide, he also clearly won the popular vote.”

In covering Trump’s allegation (and often uncritically echoing it), multiple media outlets failed to make the connection between Trump and Jones and the other conspiracy theorists pushing this baseless story.

The New York Times acknowledged that Trump’s claim was “baseless” but did not make the connection between the president-elect and conspiracy sites or Jones.

The L.A. Times pointed out there is “no evidence” to back up Trump’s claim, but did not point out the false story’s origins.

NBC News omitted references to Infowars and Alex Jones in their report on Trump’s remarks.

Trump adopting a conspiracy from Jones and Infowars is not out of the ordinary. The relationship between the politician and the conspiracy theorist has flourished for months.

Trump appeared on Jones’ radio/internet show in December of 2015 and praised him for his “amazing” reputation. Trump’s informal adviser, Republican dirty trickster Roger Stone, has been a regular contributor to Jones’ radio program for months and the two have made joint appearances at pro-Trump events.

Throughout the campaign, Trump echoed Jones’ conspiratorial rhetoric as Jones said he was in contact directly with Trump, giving him advice.

In an October speech attacking “global financial powers” while using anti-Semitic tropes and dog whistles, Trump was parroting an argument that Jones has used for years.

After Jones said Trump should begin complaining the election was “rigged,” Trump began making similar complaints on the campaign trail.

When Trump alleged that President Obama was “the founder of ISIS,” he was echoing Jones, whose website once wrote that “the Obama administration has been backing ISIS since the beginning.”

After Trump delivered his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, Jones saw so much of his rhetoric included that he bragged on his radio show that Trump was “totally synced” with him and his conspiratorial world view. Following Trump’s victory, Jones claimed that Trump called him to “thank” Jones’ audience and promised to appear on his show in the near future.

This latest outburst shows that the two men remain in sync, and it’s time for the media to let the public know who is pulling the next president’s strings.

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Copyright 2016 The National Memo

113 Responses to Trump’s Fake Popular Vote Claims Came From Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones

    • Otto the Goat, Can you wake up please! It is already in the morning. And whats your point on these pictures? Any meaning? We don’t get you.

      • Otto lives in the strange netherworld where everything is in mirror image. Right is Wrong. Wrong is Right. Lies, theft of public funds, distortions of truth….all good. This is their idea of “New World Power.”

  1. 1 year ago I finally resigned from my previous work and that decision changed everything for me… I started freelancing from comfort of my home, for a company I discovered online, for a few hours each day, and my income now is much bigger then it was on my office job… Last pay-check i got was for Nine thousand bucks… Great thing about this work is the more time i got with my family…
    http://chilp.it/728813e

  2. The only government conspiracy I would love to hear about involves the forced internment of nuts like Alex Jones. I know people who listen to him, and believe everything he says. Sadly, it looks like our President-elect is one of them…

  3. This strange infatuation with making up false stories, accepting them on face value w/o thinking twice, and spreading said lies as widely as possible must take a huge chunk of time out of one’s life. How can anyone be expected to be of benefit to society wasting time on such degenerate activities? No wonder Trump has the mind of a child, having ingested lies and conspiracies for so much of his life, and which would explain why he has little interest in reading serious material, making him imminently unqualified for assuming a role clearly beyond his emotional and mental capabilities.
    Trump has reduced himself to the point of being merely a user of natural and human resources without giving back anything in return but CO2 and sulfides. Marks of a true parasite going the extra mile of doing double duty of consuming, and contributing to global warming.

    • Thank you Aaron that was well said. Trump is smart enough if you will to win the Presidency but he got a lot of help from very ugly sources like Breitbart & Alex Jones who want to remake America with whites being the dominant species while everyone else is a foreign entity that needs to be deported even if they were born here. Let’s hope the Constitution & saner people can remove Trump & his minions before they do permanent damage to this Nation

  4. The truth. Isn’t that something we all want? Actually, the election of conman Trump gives us the answer that could put the truth seekers, fact finders, and the Nation itself on very hard times. For the truth is, there are a whole lot people in this Country that would rather believe the provable lie, and the convenient conspiracy, than be forced to face the harder realities about ourselves. About our Country, its economic truths, or the larger truths about our naturally diminishing ability to influence in the same ways a wider more complex World. Using methods we once used post WWII. An era now being wistfully looked back upon, and presented by Trump as a utopian template for the future. As the propagandist, and conspiracy mills freely spread their dystopian lies about the present.
    This being accepted, the truth being dismissed by millions. Not because reality is so dire, or so without hope. Not at all. But because the lie, and the fantasy is made to seem so deliciously easy, and ultimately glorious.
    So that the consensus becomes, why not give him, and his lie, if it be a lie, a chance?
    I like the way he tells it.. It is like I like to hear it! So, what is so wrong with a Hail Mary becoming a Hail Donald Trump, if it Makes America Great Again? Perhaps it is the truth that’s been standing in our way all along? So let us unburden ourselves from its difficult, and unyielding facts that serve to depress us. From fact, and realities that continually call upon us to do that which is hard, or moral, or fair. Or to strive to serve some higher cause for the greater good. Look, I’m tired, overworked, underpaid, disillusioned, and dissatisfied. And I want quick easy answers that require nothing of me but my belief in pure unadulterated fantasy. And by Thunder I’ll have it!

    • For me what is most scary is that the Republicans love the idea he is bringing all these “new” precedents to the Executive branch of government. He has effectively reduced the power of the other branches of government by bloating the power of the Executive branch. Or as Trump said on CNN on Thursday night, “The president can do anything he wants.”

        • That’s where it all went so wrong. Back in the 2000 election, it took the SC to come down with a winner of that election. In 2004, it came down to Bush’s brother’s state with the hanging chads no one questioned. I know for a fact that here in NJ, over 4,000 votes in 2004 election were not counted at Rutgers.

          The problem is that the Republicans love the idea of “setting precedents.” Now, they are willing to stomp all over the U.S. Constitution and allow Trump to continue doing business in foreign countries that could represent serious national security threats and also are definitely conflict of interest.

          We are now in a Constitutional Crisis thanks to Republicans thinking they can set precedents. Until one very dedicated American takes them to the SC with a case of fraudulent election and campaign violations.

      • Republicans are awaiting orders from their overlords. Who undoubtedly see unlimited opportunities with a kleptocrat Trump as President, to finally gain control of essentially every facet of government. From the huge public assets of Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, education, and defense. To control of the regulatory, and environmental processes that oversee every facet of business, and public policy from Wall Street and commerce, to taxes, and energy. And I suppose the point could be made that we the People, too many of us not bothering to vote, too many too worried at the prospect Hillary was not going to be, quote,”Progressive enough,” or was too close to Wall Street, or didn’t treat Burnie fairly in the primaries for God sake! Or truth be told, wouldn’t vote for a woman to become President under any circumstances. (There are those.) And all this drama on the Democrat’s side, being combined with voters on the Right, too ideological, and cocksure, to much in hate with Barack Obama. Or in fact, just too fk-ing stupid to see the danger in electing this nit wit to the most powerful office in the World, left us with this nightmare that frankly we and the World itself may not survive.

    • From what I have read all of this millions of illegal votes started with 1 person, GreggPhillips@JumpVote. He claims to have analyze voting data to come to this conclusion. When asked for what voting data, what methodology he used and how he identified votes as illegal Phillips has declined to answer so far.

      • In an interview on vice news Phillips explained it very honestly this way: He said he likes to write, and has what he sees as a talent for inventing stories the Right Wingers will take at face value. As in his fictional story about a Righty that supposedly confessed, (or revealed,) he was paid $3500 to protest at a Trump rally by the Clinton campaign. (There was never such a person.) Explaining further his goal is to “make up a story,” that will go viral, and generate a lot of, “clicks,” to his website that translate into cash paid to him from advertisers that buy space on his site. Sometimes as in the fake millions of illegal voter story, it goes Nationwide as it is picked up, and tweeted by the President-Elect himself. He seems at once completely proud of himself, and unconcerned about the harm his propaganda and lies could be doing to the Country. As he said, on the internet it’s all buyer beware.

        • Unfortunately, people are going to get killed based on these “false news stories.” It’s already happening with the idiot who burst into a pizza parlor because some “false news story” said it was the hotbed of child labor, pedophilia, etc. It’s fortunate that no one was killed, but he DID have a gun with him and it could have ended up very badly! The sad part is that the owner of the pizza parlor is an innocent business owner whose business is now probably somewhat ruined due to this so-called news story!! When will the next attack occur and who may be killed due to people who believe these stupid made-up stories?

    • Outstanding charleo. You and Dominick need to become professional writers for the National Memo. Beats Froma Harrop and a few of the others. Independent1 is pretty solid too.

    • And, charleo, once they realize that their demagogue lied to them during his campaign, along with other RW media groups, they’re going to finally figure out the error of their ways. However, by the time that arrives, it’ll be too late for them AND the rest of us who knew all along that Trump was (and still is) the ultimate con man! He’s done nothing in the business world except con his way up the ladder, and I find it difficult to believe after all that has been brought out during the campaign, that his followers still believe his every word! Apparently, they heard what they wanted to hear despite the fact that nothing he said will ever come to pass. He’s already backtracked on many of the promises made to his followers; i.e., immigrants, building the wall, prosecuting Hillary, immigration, not screwing around with Medicare and Social Security, getting lobbyists and Wall Street bankers out of our government (apparently, he thinks nominating them to his cabinet gets them out of the “swamp”), getting jobs back, etc. Eventually, they will come to realize that they were conned by one of the best con man this nation has seen in many years!!

      • Exactly! And then, he, [Trump] didn’t actually need to con his way all the way up the ladder. Since he was born half way up! This is something I’ve always been mystified by. The Righties instant adoration of guys like the Bushes, or Mitt Romney, and now Trump. How smart they assume they must be because their rich. I mean, how much smarts does it take to be born rich? And how much grit does it take to claw ones way to the top, when your Daddy’s a former President, or a head of General Motors, and the former Governor of Michigan? Or, one of the richest property owners in the city of NY? How many times does a rich kid from NY need to run a business into the ground, before they stop calling him a business genius, or an American success story? Or how many millions of taxes does he need to dodge, scams to get caught in, people that need to sue him for the money he owes them, before they stop referring to him, and thinking about him as the hero of the working class?

        I’ll say this, before Trump I lived under the illusion even the most ideological of the rank and file Righty could be talked to. That they would at least listen to what made common sense. So when James Carville, a fellow I like, made the remark, “You can’t fix stupid,” I thought he was just being clever, and partisan, and not literal. After Trump, I’ve had to completely resend those beliefs.

        • I agree. We can always thank Gingrich for the “us vs. them” problem that we currently have. When he was Speaker of the House many years ago, he told the Republicans that they were no longer “allowed” to socialize with the Democrats or they would be censured. Since then, the “reaching across the aisle” to negotiate has gone down the tubes! It’s now the “right” vs. the “left,” which is idiotic for a country like the United States. And, because of this problem, we now have a president-elect that is totally unqualified, unfit, and uninformed! Unfortunately, his followers will NEVER see that or deal with it because the GOP will come up with any conspiracy theory or lie that they can to cover up Trump’s BS! Pretty sad that this is what our country has become…..and if all goes as it seems, it won’t get any better!

  5. Alex Jones is totally an idiot. He is always high around the clock. He reminds me Glenn Beck those days when he was in such a situation.

    • The scary part is Alex Jones is worse than being an idiot. That would imply he doesn’t know what he’s saying. He of course knows what he says is a load of BS but he just wants the low information uneducated voters to believe his swill. He actually showed video depicting President Obama & Secretary Clinton with flies around them suggesting that they’re actually Demons. Remember in the last debate where Trump called Hillary the Devil ? That’s where he picked up that garbage. He’s not only Putins puppet but also a puppet of Alex Jones. This is so disturbing that we have these sick minds about to run our government. People wanted change now they’re going to get change

  6. Because Trump is lazy he is easy to mislead, he doesn’t read, he likes grand stories even if they have no base in facts. People like Jones can lead him around by the nose all day long. His chief of staff should be a guard against this happening but since he is one of the people doing the leading there is little hope of Trump getting the facts right. If a lie is big enough and grand enough Trump will repeat it every time.

  7. I once worked with a little German lady, our engineering estimator, who through her adorable accent once said, “Consider the source.”

    Anyone who cannot see what The Penthouse President Elect is doing needs a refresher course in reality. First, he is acting as if choosing cabinet members is like one of his beauty contests. Winner takes it all as ABBA once sang.

    Then, he rewards all those with jobs in his “cabinet” who did his dirty work for him. If you missed this, just look at the job Rience Preibus now has.

    As for fake election claims of Alex Jones. The stretch of lies into truth prevails for these corrupt men. They are everything this country never imagined could happen: Men breaking all the rules of common decency, democracy and setting precedents we will all regret for our kids.

    Think about this. Trump refuses to address the conflict of interest and is “setting a new precedent.” Good. Now when the Koch boys do the same and the government is nothing more than an adjunct of their business empires using presidential influence, we will thank the Republicans.

    How does a president elect who is a billionaire who knowingly commits violations to the Emolument Clause swear an oath to protect the Constitution and the people of the US. Which people? The business associates he intends to use to make his name the world’s most powerful or the business name he intends to get maximum value from presidential influence?

    Don’t expect his supporters to recognize conflict of interest. They can’t pull up their own pants on their best day.

      • One of the reasons I am not impressed by titles or big names is due to a super goof when I worked for the SBA umbudswoman, E.T. Lyons back in the late 70s. I was on my way up to our office on the third floor. In the elevator were 2 men and 1 woman standing behind me. I pushed the button for FL3 and the woman said, “Oh, I see you are on your way up to Elizabeth’s office too.”

        When I walked through the door with those 3 in tow, Elizabeth said, “Oh I see you brought the Senator, Congresswoman and Assemblyman with you.” Ooops. She realized I had no clue who they were. From that day on, she insisted I study who my state and federal representatives were. She was the one who told me never to be impressed with titles and big names, “They put their pants on just like you do. One leg at a time.”

        If I take issue with a public liar like the Penthouse President, it is because I’ve seen how evil these guys can be and how they ramrod their will on others.

  8. Reading all the comments below brought my mind around to the dystopian “Hunger Games” novels. The author who wrote them was struck by today’s juxtaposition of reality TV and politics. The evolution of this premise takes us to the society of the hunger games. If you’ve read the first book or saw the movie, it does not seem so far-fetched anymore. Trump could be President Snow.
    Creepy.

  9. If the presumptive incoming president is claiming voter fraud on the scale Trump has stated there should be a thorough investigation of the election including consideration of the evidence for not only voter fraud but also voter suppression.

  10. I believe Donald Trump has serious mental health issues and needs to have a through psychiatric evaluation to certify that he is competent to take office as President of the United States. His behavior is not normal. His father dies of Alzheimer’s Disease and Trump’s erratic behavior could be a sign of mental instability.

    • Yeah, but what’s even scarier is that we have built a society in which 50 million people or better can’t recognize his mental illness.

    • Dang I’ve been saying this all along. The man is not right in the head & now he’s about to be President. With the nuclear codes in his tiny little hands we better hope there’s an intervention to impeach him before he goes ballistic

    • Hillary has Parkinson’s which affects one’s mental capacities. She was too sick to run and too sick to serve. She would have been propped up with someone else pulling the strings, as was the case during her campaign. Who would have been running the country? Bill? Huma? Cheryl? For sure they would never have turned things over to Tim Kaine, no matter how bad it got. We dodged a bullet there.

      • And there it is another damn lie being spread that’s completely false & if you actually believe that then your another victim of falling for fake news. We didn’t dodge a bullet but have now taken a direct hit with the impending Trump Presidency. Now we have to wait & see if this Nation will survive or die

      • Don’t be silly. Parkinson’s has a visible physical feature and it would have been recognized by her doctor in the country. You’re just being silly.

        • No, he’s just believing another right wing conspiracy theory that was thrown out there by the Trumpsters. Unfortunately, critical thinking is not a benefit that his followers have. Much like their hero, they believe everything they read…..unfortunately, they read the wrong things!

  11. This is sad and terrifying at the same time. We have a president-elect who believes conspiracy theorists like Jones and the National Enquirer and then blasts out those views nationally! Are we ever going to believe anything this nutjob says? God help this country!

    • Consider the source: The Gatewood Pundit is a hard-right website oft cited by such “scholars” as Matt Drudge. The website spends most of the day complaining about Barack Obama and liberals, and the occasional flirtation with outright white supremacists. It is a fairly popular blog, allegedly getting 4-5 million views each month, once again proving that being popular doesn’t necessarily make you right.

    • MMMMM YES SOUNDS TRUTHY.

      It’s not for nothing that the “Gateway Pundit” is all of the top google results for “stupidest man on the internet”

  12. MSM has been giving Trump a free pass for 18 plus months and have the nerve to be offended when people complain about their never-ending love affair with Trump. Trump plays them constantly and they fall all over themselves like lovesick youth when he compliments them and run and hide when he berates them. I guess they all missed class the day they should have been learning about using reward/punishment as a means of control. That’s one class Trump attended and he learned this control technique very well.
    Trump is a liar. That is no longer speculation. It has happened too many times. It is a fact.
    Alex Jones is either psychotic or a master showman constantly testing the rubes who believe him to see just how divorced from the truth he can get without losing any followers.He has strayed far beyond the boundaries rational people observe but hasn’t reached it for the low functioning and mentally ill who seem willing to believe everything.
    Trump not only relies on Jones for “news” and repeats his baseless lies, but has used lies that originated in Russia, lies fed him by white supremacists as well as hundreds of his own to create Trumpworld. Trump has said he loves the poorly educated. No doubt he loves the mentally ill too.

  13. Proof positive that 1) they are convinced that we the people are morons and that a majority will buy this stupid toxic swill from stupid toxic men, 2) they are very concerned that Americans must have a bait and switch bovine excrement distraction to draw us off the scent of the steaming turd that Mr. T lost the election by votes equivalent to the population of Houston, and soon perhaps approaching that of Chicago, or more than the population of New Mexico, or more than the combined populations of states 48-50, 3) that, in fact and more to the point, a suspiciously mere 100,000 votes separates “winner” from “loser” in battleground states WI, MI and PA, which would have swung the election, 4) claiming 3 million illegal voters is breathtakingly ignorant hyperbole that’s easily disproved, and he offered no of it proof himself, just more proof that this anus with dyed hair does not respect facts or truth, 5) Trump knows that his RNC colluders rigged the game by working with quite a number of states–perhaps half of them–to suppress the vote by requiring unduly burdensome new i.d. requirements that they knew many voters did not have and then did nothing at all to help them get those i.d.s. They closed DMV offices, required long-lost original birth certificates from senior citizens who had been voting all their lives without them, and so on. They deliberately reduced the number of polling places because they knew it was more difficult for older citizens–who tended to vote more as Ds–to get to vote. And on. And on. Yes, perhaps “millions of voters” is an appropriate, but these treasonous schmucks know that millions were PREVENTED from voting, and that is why Trumpenstein will occupy the Oval Office. But Trump and his ratsy party sycophants don’t want anyone to deduce that, so they treat you like mushrooms — keep you in the dark and feed you s***.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/opinion/donald-trumps-lies-about-the-popular-vote.html?comments#permid=20636189

    • Couldn’t have said it better myself! You hit ALL the points! The really bad part is that we have to put up with this guy for 4 years and watch him take this nation down when it was just coming back up from the last Republican president! I’m not sure we’ll be able to handle coming back up again once he gets going!

  14. Unfortunately we have millions of people in this country who think the B.S. that comes from people like Jones and others like him is true. That’s why we have president elect Donald Trump. We have hit a new low in this country and the people of the world just look at us and shake their collectives.

  15. No wonder Alex Jones is such a stupid dipshit! No wonder Trump believes false media like his and doesn’t believe facts, etc.

        • You’d think that with most of his followers being elderly white males, they would remember what happened with Hitler and the Holocaust. Apparently, they’ve all become like Trump…..forgetful and delusional! I can’t fault the younger voters….they don’t remember what happened back then, but the older voters…..they have NO excuses for voting in a demagogue who is setting out to destroy this nation!

  16. This is the BIGGEST problem with Trump….he believes everything that these idiots tell him without having someone in his group fact check it! If he’s going to keep listening to Jones and his cronies, he needs to nominate someone to do nothing but fact check before he opens his big mouth and passes on these bits of BS! It’s pretty sad that our so-called president-elect doesn’t have a brain in his head and believes all these stupid things! It just goes to show you what we will have to deal with for the next 4 years…..a president that doesn’t have a single thought in his head that hasn’t been put there by Infowars and Jones! Does he have ANY original thoughts of his own?

  17. I think it’s comical that the sources quoted to refute Jones’ claims are the same sources that couldn’t accurately conduct a poll. Oh, I forgot, they paid the pollsters to produce fake poll results that showed HilLIARy winning by a big margin. This was done to discourage folks from voting for President Trump. So now they’re telling you to believe them about the illegals voting. Even Obama encouraged illegals to vote. How many do you think actually did? Um, about 3 million?

    • Yes, a guy who fell for the laziest, dumbest photoshop hoax sure does get to have an opinion about this without being laughed at.

      Oh, wait, no you don’t. Bwahahahaha!

      • Hey Helpy the Pathetic Dummy and Liar: I see you’re still spewing your lies. You can repeat youe lies until the recount buries HilLIARy once and for all, but repeating a lie will never make it true.
        When the investigation is complete and the 3 million illegal votes have been removed, President Trump will also have won the popular vote. So President Trump’s mandate will become louder and stronger.
        Try seeking out one of those crying rooms that wimpy colleges put in so little boys could feel safe. That way you can have your good cry.

          • Economists are saying the economy will finally rebound after the disastrous 8 years of Obama’ failed economic policies. The market took off, and he hasn’t even taken office yet!
            Look for the working middle class to enjoy the ride up the economic ladder, after getting shoved down into the poor sector by Obama’s garbage.
            Still losing the debate, so you continue to name call. Find that crying room and quickly. Enjoy!

            https://twitter.com/RedNationRising/status/798715093584347136

          • Then I hope your portfolio is brimming with blue chips. Otherwise, idiot, grab your wallet, and pay up. While you kick yourself in the butt for being such an imbecile. And don’t say you weren’t warned.

          • You seem to be focusing on the economy as if you expect the new regime will mess it up. Most economists believe it will correct the problems of the Obama mess. Even the Dems themselves are admitting that their economic policies were not doing the job. Try this Dem-friendly link about the terrible economy. We kept trying to tell you before the election that your message was not resonating with the voters. Can you hear them now?
            http://www.nationalmemo.com/democrats-rebrand-message/?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sd&utm_medium=email

          • Talk to me a year from now about the economy, and all those brilliant economists that the Right Wing is touting as, “most,” The terrible economy I remember, that you’ve evidently forgot, is the one Obama inherited. So feel free to remain fact free and smug as bug as long as your money holds out.

          • Agreed…with all the Wall Street bankers and lobbyists that he’s added to his cabinet, you can be sure that nothing will change and we’ll go back to the days of GWB and Reagan. I wonder how long it’ll be before we’re back in a recession again and how his followers will feel when they find out they’ve been lied to by an ultimate con man!

          • Hello racist and bigot; Well it looks like Bill Ford loves the new polices that President Trump is planning. Ford Motor has already altered their plans to relocate 5,000 jobs from the KTP. The KTP plant manager was loudly cheered when he made the announcement to the entire plant. And don’t try to make the fake claim that Ford didn’t intend to move those jobs. You and Dominck are confusing the announced plans to relocate jobs from Michigan to Mexico with the KTP plans. Do a little research instead of just blindly believing what the MSM puts out.

          • dpaano, this is my greatest fear for my/our kids’ generation.
            First: When/where is the media’s commentary on the dangers of putting all our eggs in the Wall Street basket. Wasn’t the Great Depression arguably caused by the consolidation of wealth to the top (Industrialists, Oil, Wall Street and Rich aka: Wall Street investors) and a consumer base that couldn’t afford what the industrial revolution was churning out so it sat on shelves collecting dust… (Bubble, anyone?)
            Second: His populous message about middle class, this, and middle class, that got him elected, but now he has do deal with an intransigent GOP (Guardians Of Plutocracy) who nothing, if not totally OWNED by $$$Moneyed, Special Interests. This relationship almost reminds me of a Laurel & Hardy comedy routine, as these profit protectors duck for cover and feign sincere regard for the middle class and the USA they’ve sold out for a higher stock market index. LOL

          • Agreed!! Yes, the depression was caused by the things you mentioned, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we’ll be back in a recession within a year after Trump’s inauguration! He told his followers that he was going to do away with lobbyists, billionaire insiders, Wall Street bankers, etc., but now we see that this was just another one of those lies that he told his followers. His nominations to his cabinet and the government departments consists of ex-lobbyists, billionaire insiders, and Wall Street bankers. But, for some reason, his followers just don’t seem to see that as a problem! My question is HOW do these people have ANY concept of how the poor and middle class survive on a day-to-day basis? They’ve never had to deal with poverty, with not having decent healthcare, with not having a home and food on the table, etc. They’ve never had to worry about where their next paycheck is coming from, how they’re going to pay their house payment or rent, etc. These 1%ers have NO concept of this and their brains are not wired to understand it…..how in heck can they now try to tell the rest of this nation how to function when they don’t understand this at all?

          • That’s a provably baseless assertion. And absolutely worthless as a rebuttal to my pointing out the dire condition of the economy on Jan. ’09. If Obama’s policies were so terrible, we’d be losing a million jobs a month/two million jobs a month! The stock exchanges would be flatlined. The Country, as would much of the World, be in a years long quantified depression. But none of that is the case. As for you, you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. In fact, you simply believe that which pleases you to believe, And cast around for any excuse, or any made up article, or phony website to justify it.

          • So if you rely on a left-leaning site for your information, it’s fine. But if I rely on a right-leaning site for my information, I’m automatically wrong. Oh, I get it.
            It’s just that type of logic that cost the Dems the election. The Dems, in concert with the MSM, conducted fake polls, then published the results of the faked polls. These fake polls showed HilLIARy winning. All along I kept asking lefties like you to not trust the left-leaning sites. I kept providing links to sites that showed President Trump leading in the polls. And just as you’ve done with the economy, you’ve elected to believe the left-leaning sites over the right-leaning sites.
            OK, you win. The economy is doing great (despite record number of folks on welfare, record number on food stamps, record number of 95 million not working).
            Also the polls are correct and HilLIARy and the Dems will win in a landslide and bury the GOP once and for all. The Dems will retake the Senate and possibly the House too. Happy Days Are Here Again!
            REALITY CHECK:
            The voters saw the economy was NOT doing so great and the post-election analysts have acknowledged this. Even the Dem party has conceded that they overlooked the blue collar and middle class voters discontent with the economy. So you can claim (falsely) all you wish that the economy is great, but you are in a minority.
            Regarding the polls, well, by now, even you should have read that old HilLIARy will still be plane old HilLIARy.

          • If you depend on Alex Jones, Brietbart, and Infowars for information on which you base your conclusions, yes, you’re going to be wrong.
            It’s a situation of garbage in/garbage out. How good or bad a 17 trillion dollar economy is doing can be based on empirical fact, or subjective opinion. If empirical fact is dismissed as tainted, or is characterized as being put out by governmental offices that conspiracy theorists, or politicos in the Right Wing press tell their audiences are false, or have been manipulated. What you’re left with is subjective opinions that provides the license to the source to say whatever their audiences prefer to believe. And some will definitely prefer to believe, and even hope the economy is falling off a cliff so their side can win. Which is exactly what you’re doing.
            You ignore, or downplay the historic recession, its causations under a Republican Administration, it’s tax cutting, and deregulation of the financial sector, and the obvious results. To claim the U.S. economy, now actually in fine comparative shape with other industrialized economies around the World. Has under a Democratic President recovered terribly, or not at all. Which is provably, and absolutely false. And yet you persist in ignoring what is not in agreement with the narrative being constantly put on your plate by your sources for your consumption. If you’re happy with that, fine. But don’t be surprised when others insist you use real facts, and verifiable numbers in your discussion with them.

          • So, again, your sites are golden and my sites are crap.
            OK, you win. The economy is great and HilLIARy will win in a landslide. Have it your way.
            So please explain how now, even the Dem party is saying it was the economy.
            Also please explain how 232>306 so that HilLIARy won.
            I await the golden sties that have this “have to be believed” information.

          • Gee, what more do you want? I told you that you won. Just wondering why so many including the Dems themselves are claiming they concentrated on restrooms and ignored the economy and jobs. Why don’t you ask them why they think the economy was in shambles?
            And while you’re at it, can you show the new math algorithms that explain and prove that 306 < 232? Thanks.

          • The fact the manufacturing in PA. OH. and MI are gone, chasing cheap labor overseas, is a not due to anything the Democrats have done, or not done. It is simply a profit driven fact. The notion that these people have been led to believe Trump can change reality is also not any thing the Democrats have done, or was able to do anything about..Obviously. I guess they could have lied like Trump. But facts are facts that will eventually reveal reality. In the mean time, they, in their dissatisfaction, have put a very unqualified and thus dangerous person in a very powerful office. That made a lot of very attractive sounding promises he has no way of fulfilling. In a Capitalist economy, neither the President, nor the Congress can make these companies keep their operations here. And the strategy of lowering taxes on their profits, eliminating business and environmental regulations, or busting labor unions, lowering employee wages, and cutting job benefits, will not compensate corporations for the huge differences in pay scales they enjoy in China, or Southeast Asia, or the third world countries of N. Africa.

          • Not so fast Charlie, When the government puts in excessive legislation (Obama has put in over 2000 restrictive business bills in 7 years!), puts in excessive taxes and regulations and tries to shove high wages down the business throats, I would say they caused manufacturing jobs to relocate outside the US.
            So it would seem you are wrong when you say it wasn’t due to anything the Dems have done. Right to work laws and other such types KEEP manufacturing jobs in the US.
            The Hostess company is a great example of “we have 1000s of jobs at $30/hour, but we have NO jobs at $60/hour.
            People heard President Trump’s message and hoped he could deliver. He’s 6 weeks from office and already saved the 5,000 jobs at the Ford KTP and 1000 Carrier jobs. Yes 1300 Carrier jobs are moving, but saving 1000 is better than ALL 2300 being lost. The auto industry is applauding the hope that President Trump rolls back the EPA rules that will cost 1000s of auto jobs. These are just some of the ways President Trump will finally fix the broken economy of Obama.

          • If what you claim were true, you’d have a point. But it’s all fairy tale economics. All provably false by fact, and trial. Don’t believe it?
            Okay, look. In the 2nd term of Bill Clinton, and continuing into the 1st term of Bush, regulations on businesses were cut across the board. From the financial sector. (Wall Street, ’96) to environmental regulations on chemicals, pesticides, and the coal, gas and oil industries. (’98) Top tax rates in Bush’s 1st term, working with a GOP Congress, were cut by half for the the investor class. (Capital Gains) New laws were passed that created billions in loopholes, and incentives for corps. As were taxes on profits realized on overseas operations not required to be re-patroiated, but allowed to be held in overseas accounts indefinitely, until such deals could be cut. (5% was the rate settled on in 2002.)
            With the overall debt of the Nation falling under Clinton. Pres. Bush declared in 2001, “The American People, (meaning the wealthiest 1/2 of 1%,) “had been overcharged.” And cut the top tax rates by half. This was the law from 2001 with the first cut. And Bush, and the Republican lead Congress cut them by half again in 2003. Another huge tax cut right before the Bush Adm. launched the Country into the Iraq invasion. The results spoke for themselves 5 years later with the largest most general economic collapse since the Great Depression 80 years previous. And the looser environmental regulations also prove their folly. With gasoline prices hovering near $5.00 a gallon, as the the deep horizon rig blew up in the Gulf of Mexico. Completely due to both lax enforcement of regs. and fewer regulations on off shore operations, demanded by the Bush Adm. As job performance under Bush proved to be the poorest in terms of both numbers, and wages earned, since the tail end of the great depression years of,1939. The worst economic performance of any modern Adm. since Herbert Hoover.
            Notice President Obama has not yet taken office. And the Dems. had only been in charge of one chamber of Congress for two years. (2006-2008.) After solid run of GOP leadership, with their guy in the White House for 6 of the last 12. Cutting taxes, mainly for corps. and the 1% and regs on Wall Street, and the environment the entire time. While suppressing wages, and undercutting labor representation with a new round of Right to work, and anti bargaining laws for unions passed at the State level.
            And what were the results? Hundreds of billions of dollars were added to the Nation’s debt. 95% of the economic gains realized went to the top 1%. Domestic investment, and small business opportunities became marginal, With the wages for the average salaried worker having not increased in terms of real buying power, since the mid 1970s. And by 2008, over the span of the previous 10 years, the U.S. economy had suffered the loss of nearly 10 million manufacturing jobs. Mainly due to cheap overseas labor.
            So the remedy being proposed is to put American labor, and wages, and American environmental standards, and corporate tax structures in direct competition with third world, or Communist Nations. Places that have no Social Security, no Medicare, no minimum wage, no worker safety laws, no worker health benefits, no unemployment or worker compensation. And no representation or Civil Rights for workers on the line? Is that a plan you would support? If you voted for Donald Trump, and I have read his economic plan. You just did.

          • You could probably get a job writing fiction for those who write school text books. You spin and twist truth to fit your story, just like NOAA keeps adjusting the true temps recorded during 1930-1940.
            Under Obama, the national debt just about doubled to $20 trillion! Even someone like you should be able to comprehend that.
            Business regulations passed under Obama = 2000. Once more verifiable.
            All the EOs Obama ordered have cause the economy to falter. Voters grew weary of the Dems failed policies. As President Trump challenged “what have you got to lose”? and it cost the Dems the election. Even Dem leaders, except the clueless Pelosi, have said “we focused on bathrooms and forgot about jobs and the economy”. Pelosi is still saying, like you, there’s nothing wrong with our policies. That’s the real tragedy with the Dems, they just don’t get it. Thankfully, the public now gets it.

          • So like I assumed you’d crack a book? Check my history on this stuff? Not a chance. You’ve got your tale and you like sitting on it. Frankly, I wish you were right. But you’re not. And certainly you, and those members of the public that believe as you do, will soon find out what they’ve got to lose is more than they knew they had.

          • Your problem is that you believe the stuff the Obama team puts out. Crack a book, written by them? Why bother. Voters got fed up with the Dem lies. Even the Dems admit they lost their message to the voters because of their policies. Only Pelosi still clings to the old ways. I love it. The Dems have lost more seats, local, state and national levels than at any time in history. And they owe it all to her.

          • This election aside, not being one driven by the facts and numbers that have been used by the same agencies for decades. The fact they are inconvenient, or fail to underpin a narrative meant to win an election is no reason to believe those with a definite agenda served by questioning them, and having you question them. My advice to you is watch and see what their next excuses are for failure. There was no getting around the facts the largest banks, and investment houses in the Country were essentially broke. Right? That the economy was losing 800,000 jobs a month. True? That our trading partners in Europe were in the same sinking boat, due to the same investments coming out of a deregulated banking sector in the U.S.
            Then voters like yourself supporting the proposition of going back to the same formulas that got us into the biggest financial mess since the great depression make no sense to me. Believe what you want. Try to make sense though.

          • You’re obsessed with your own realities. And so seek out sources that confirm that reality. Even as you debunk the stats, and numbers of the real world. I’ll guarantee you investors, and businesses that depend on hard facts to make decisions on expansions, or cuts, to increase inventory, or not, to buy or sell, or hold, do not use Pat Powered News as a source.

          • Exactly…..what Trump and his billionaire buddies are considering is the very same thing that Bush did, and it didn’t work then and won’t work now. Giving tax breaks to the 1% does NOTHING but put more money into their pockets and less money to the other 99% of us. Do you think that giving a tax cut to corporations is going to do anything? All it means is that the CEO’s will get bigger bonuses and the shareholders will make more money…..the money they save will NOT go into hiring new employees and manufacturing more product. The problem is that in order to get more consumers to BUY your product, you have to pay those consumers MORE money so they have it to spend. So, thinking logically, if employees are not given raises so they have money to spend, ramping up production of various products is going to be a moot point! Again, it didn’t work when Bush did it; it ain’t going to work when Trump does it. It didn’t work in Kansas or Louisiana either…..they ended up taking money from education funds, social welfare funds, healthcare, etc., to put into the general fund so they could pay their regular bills…..and what suffered? Education, social programs, healthcare, etc. Trickle-down economics didn’t work for Reagan or Bush…..and, as I’ve said before, it ain’t gonna work for Trump!

          • Papa Bush called it Voodoo Economics. I call it economics for idiots. Or something Einstein described as insanity. The act of one doing the same thing over, and over, while expecting a different result. To their credit many people see the folly of piling up huge catches of wealth at the very top of the income strata. Others have been brainwashed to have such an adoration, and affinity for the super wealthy. They ignore the inherent dangers it creates for democracy, and the policy’s failures time and again, to produce its promises of general wealth down the income scale.

          • According to the Forbes Magazine, we have added over a 100 more billionaires in the past couple of years…..what does that tell you? What it tells me is that the 1% is only getting richer and the 99% are getting poorer. With Trump and his billionaire cronies running this country, we can expect more of the same. It will be the poor and the middle class who will suffer….the rich will just become richer! Even Trump’s tax plan has been proven to benefit the 1% more than the rest of us. Unfortunately, the Trump trolls fail to understand this or even bother to check economic sources.

          • And, I don’t see any of them willing to give up their Social Security or Medicare benefits either! As a note, why don’t we hear about why Trump and his daughter, Ivanka, haven’t brought back their clothing manufacturing and jewelry manufacturing from China and Vietnam? Don’t you think that someone who is SO against outsourcing would be the FIRST one to bring back HIS manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? How come we didn’t hear anything about his hypocrisy during the campaign….he was very good a deflecting the fact that he ALSO has businesses that he outsourced overseas, and I haven’t heard a word from him or Ivanka about bringing them back….I wonder if he’s going to charge a 35% tax on his own clothing line when it comes here from China and Vietnam? Should be interesting to see if turnabout is fair play!

          • I read an interesting article from a VALID source that stated that whenever a Republican president left office, they ALWAYS had a deficit and a high unemployment rate; however, when a Democrat president left office, it was the other way around. I can honestly believe that because there are facts to support it…..unlike the BS that Trump and his cronies keep throwing out there for his uninformed, but brainwashed, followers!

          • Apparently, these trolls haven’t checked the facts, which point out that when a Democratic president has left office, the unemployment rate is low and the economy is fine; however, whenever a Republican president has left office, the unemployment rate has been extremely high and the economy has been close to tanking! What does that tell you? What it tells me is that Democrats are more fit to run this country correctly than Republicans, who are only in it for the good of their billionaire cronies and the high-paid lobbyists!

          • Informed voter: The economists ALSO said that Trump’s tax plan will end up costing the poor and the middle class more in taxes and give more benefits to the 1% (who, by the way, don’t need any more benefits). So, watch your tax bill go up and let us know how that goes for you!

          • Hey Helpy, the Pathetic Dummy and proven to be a big Liar,
            I’m still waiting for you quote about why Deb resigned. I told you we can keep this up forever, but the election has been held and poor old Deb and HilLIARy seemed to have finished second. Perhaps President Trump will give HilLIARy a certificate of participation? Perhaps you can come up with something we can give Deb for resigning over the leaked emails.

  18. Some of “we the people” have just pulled off the Corporatocracy’s streamlined illusion and onto a billboard strewn basement-bargain parking lot for our first glimpse behind the curtain; a first encounter with the props, and other mechanical ropes and pulleys that hold images of our consumer utopia the playwrights use to embellish the fake terrain.
    Without these tranquil, pleasant props to keep “we the people” comfortably numb (deaf, dumb, and blind), the Oligarchs dealings on the world stage outside this theater, would have been discernable long ago.
    Sadly, after 4 decades of unprecedented 20th century middle class prosperity beginning with the New Deal, their very real share of the magnificent USA wealth was condemned to death by Supply-side Economics of the 1980s. To consolidate the vast, shared wealth to the top, it was necessary to place an incentive, not on broad prosperity, but on the ever growing profit margins of same Corporatocray. Any and all means were on the table, and our corrupt Representative form of Government climbed aboard.
    Truth? Hell, today’s disingenuous rhetoric doesn’t even need to contain an element of that rare commodity. For a look at how a large segment of our flummoxed, scared, and angry electorate of commoners have been hoodwinked with lies, look at this gem of a propaganda piece by the right wing think tank, Free Congress Foundation (you attach the moniker, “Free” or “Liberty,” or “Freedom” to the name of an organization and you hook ’em every time!). They named it, “The Integration of Theory and Practice” by Heubeck and Weyrich. These think tanks contain cultural warriors, and they are organized, well-connected, and smart, not to mention unscrupulous! Plus they’re winning the propaganda wars for the allegiance of the middle class they’ve abandoned in favor of moneyed, special interest, while the left establishment is making their case for the social justice issue du jour, including transgender toilet selection. We never learn! It’s time we start!
    Here are some ex

  19. If Trump is SO sure there were 3M illegal aliens that didn’t vote for him, maybe he needs to demand a recount of the three states that he mentioned……that would prove his point (if there IS any proof). Unfortunately, all he does is sit around and whine instead of taking action like Stein and requesting recounts. I’m sure that he KNOWS that those recounts will not show a single vote by any illegal aliens, and certainly not 3M! He and Alex Jones are just “twats with tweeters!”

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