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Wednesday, October 26, 2016

I’ve heard a lot of goofy arguments against raising the federal minimum wage. The silliest goes like this: “You want to raise the minimum wage to $15? Why not $50? Why not $100?”

Of course, that’s not a real argument. Yet I hear it a lot, which means it probably originates somewhere in the nation’s vast menagerie of conservative talk-show hosts.

The answer, if this pseudo-argument deserves one, is that $15 is at least where the current minimum hourly wage of $7.25 would be if it had kept up with worker productivity since the 1960s, according to various experts.

For example, the liberal-leaning Economic Policy Institute estimates that, if the minimum wage had kept pace with productivity growth since 1968, as it did for the two decades before, it would now be $18.67 per hour. Ah, the good old days.

That figure makes President Barack Obama’s request for a raise to $10.10, after asking for $9 earlier in the year, sound modest.

Yet at the other end of the political spectrum you have conservatives like Rep. Joe Barton, a Texas Republican, who told National Journal that he would rather just get rid of the federal minimum wage altogether. “I think it’s outlived its usefulness,” he said, although he acknowledged that “it may have been of some value back in the Great Depression.”

No minimum wage? It seems to me that America tried that before. It’s called slavery.

But whether Barton’s fellow Republicans share his extreme view or not, a minimum wage increase isn’t likely to have any easier time in the current Congress than most of this president’s other requests.

That’s a tragedy for millions of hard-working Americans who are having an increasingly tough time making ends meet — even as stocks soar to record highs on Wall Street.

Does it sound like I’m talking class warfare? Americans didn’t think so in the three decades after World War II, when the idea of wages keeping up with productivity had much more bipartisan support.

In the years from 1947 to 1969, the minimum wage actually did keep pace with productivity growth, according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, another liberal-leaning Washington think tank. As recently as President George W. Bush’s administration, Congress passed a bipartisan minimum wage increase in 2007 that included tax breaks for small businesses. That’s not class warfare. It’s legislating.

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  • Independent1

    I still contend that there should be two minimum wages: a minimum wage for large corporations such as multi-nationals that have sufficient products and income revenues so they can afford jumping the minimum wage to $15 (like maybe asking McDonalds to add a nickle to 2 or 3 of its combo meals which would support the increase) vs much smaller companies which would have a difficult time absorbing such a large increase suddenly for their workforce. Just like with many benefits related pieces of legislation recognize the differences between companies with 50 or more employees and smaller companies, the minimum wage increase should recognize the vast difference in companies like WalMart, McDonald’s,Target and many others who could easily add pennies to their wide product selection and much smaller companies that don’t have a large enough income stream to support that: the smaller companies should have stepped minimum wage increases like in the latest federal legislation.

    • disqus_ivSI3ByGmh

      The problem with the Large Company/Small Company scenario is who defines a “Small Company”? If you are dealing with almost anything in the building trades, you are dealing with family owned Plumbing, Electrical, Masonry and Carpentry contractors. For them to only pay “minimum” wage, they would never find anyone to work for them. However, small retail operations (like most hardware stores) could see this as a detriment. As the vast majority of their workers are being paid only slightly above minimum wage (in most cases), they would need to see a significant increase in sales to justify the higher wage.
      This would also apply to most McDonald’s. Remember, the vast majority of those food serving establishments (no matter what you call it, it really isn’t a restaurant) are owned by franchisers, not the corporation. Those franchisers, like the small retail shops, would need to see a substantial increase in sales to pay for a minimum wage hike. The problem is the better paid people are, the less likely they are to eat at Micky Dee’s unless they have children of Happy Meal age.
      So, no matter how this problem is looked at, there is NO easy solution. Yes, a substantial increase in the minimum wage would result in greater disposable income, but until that income is realized as sales, many smaller businesses would be taking a loss before the income made its way to them.

      • Independent1

        My suggestion would be that the law split the minimum wage requirements by income revenue. Companies with say less than 50 or 100 million in revenue would have to conform to the currently proposed staggered minimum wage proposal.

        • jmprint

          No, that’s not fair to society.

          • Independent1

            How so. If splitting the minimum wage by corporate size isn’t fair, why is defining different rules for companies with more than 50 employees vs those with fewer than 50?? And as I pointed out in another response, smaller companies may well end up paying more than the minimum wage in order to attract employees since they would be in competition with multi-nationals paying a higher wage. But the important part, is that smaller companies that may have trouble supporting the higher minimum wage wouldn’t be forced out of business because the min wage suddenly jumped up.

      • Lisztman

        If you suggest that the present McD’s customers will now go to, say, Applebee’s, they will be replaced at McD’s by those who can not afford now to go out to eat, anywhere. Those who are heretofore forced to scrounge every meal at home might now be able to take their families to McD’s once every few weeks…

        And those such as restaurants who threaten that their prices will have to rise 10% (or whatever) to cover the increased labor costs are either overpriced now, or forget that the BK across the street will also have to raise its prices as well.

        There are very few, if any, legitimate arguments against a rise in the min wage.

        • Independent1

          McDonald’s stores in Europe, where the minimum wage is $12/hr actually have better profit margins than the stores in America where they pay around $7.50-$8.00. My feeling is that this is happening because the min wage for all workers in Europe is $12, so more of those eating at McDonald’s, including those who work at McDonald’s, can afford to order the higher priced combo meals, rather than having to make do with ordering from what was the $1 menu which obviously has a lower profit margin.

    • jmprint

      I don’t agree with this, and this is why. When the oil companies raise the cost per gallon at the pump, nobody does anything about, but pump and pay. Everybody gets adjusted to the increases and life goes on, some struggle more than others, but we pay. As an employer for over 33 years we have tried to keep up with inflation and pay our employees accordingly, if a mom and pop shop can do that, then so can the small and large companies. Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour or at least $10 will help the economy, because those that receive these raises will purchase more and in turn the companies will get larger profits and that will offset the increases. Remember what goes around, comes around. It’s a win, win situation for all.

      • Independent1

        I don’t disagree with what you’re saying and definitely agree with your last couple of sentences: that raising the minimum wage would lift all boats, it’s just that in some states, like where I’m staying at the moment in CT, raising the wages $3/hour, triggers a lot of other increases for small businesses: like unemployment insurance and other state mandated costs businesses would be required to increase that I’m not fully aware of. We have 3 members of our family who run small businesses and they feel that suddenly raising the minimum wage $3 , would actually create a jump of more than twice that for each employee when all things are considered, and that doing so may just drive them out of business.

        And driving small businesses out of business is the last thing we need to do, WalMart and other large retailers with their expansion into many lines of retail (a la WalMart supercenters); has already done a huge job at making running a small business difficult.

        And raising the minimum wage for small business to say $10.10/hour as is the objective, while raising it to $15 for large businesses, would put pressure on small businesses to raise their wages above the minimum wage, in order to attract workers who would gravitate to the companies paying the $15/hr minimum, without forcing them to do that when they may well not be able to absorb the increase.

        • jmprint

          Yes, you are correct the payroll taxes do increase, and trust me that does put a hurt on small companies. I propose that congress pass a bill, as President Obama did on his first term to subsidies that tax increase for at least the first year, so that companies can adjust to these increases.

          • Independent1

            Is the ‘payroll tax’ the employer’s part of the FICA tax; which would go up because it’s a percentage of an employee’s pay?

          • jmprint

            Yes it is a percentage of the payroll. The FICA tax is paid by the employee and the employer matches the amount and thats to cover the social security and medicare.

        • plc97477

          It would be unfair to give the employees of larger businesses extra buying power and screw those in smaller businesses.

          • Independent1

            Isn’t that already happening?? In Hartford, CT for example, machinists doing jet engine manufacturing type work for Pratt & Whitney, generally make much money per hour than machinists doing exactly the same work for smaller job shops. Admittedly that’s not being forced by a minimum wage, but what does that have to do with anything?
            And why should people who work for multi-nationals be forced to work at wages that are so far below the poverty level, just because smaller, Mom and Pop stores would have difficulty covering the costs of paying double the courant minimum wage? Wouldn’t it be even moe unfair to set the minimum wage to say $10.10 over a 3 year stepped period for people that work at McDonald’s, WalMart, Target and other multi-nationals that could easily afford right now to pay $15/hr in 2014, just because Joe’s Pizza down the street couldn’t afford to do that and would have to go out of business? Wouldn’t that be punishing McDonald’s people?? That seems far more unfair to me.

        • Lisztman

          I’ve heard “$15/hr”. I really don’t believe that anyone has any expectations that the minwage might rise to that any time soon.

          Having said that — should workers (and voters) request that the minwage be raised to something realistic, such as $10/hr over the next three years (a number that’s been projected as realistic and achievable) — by the time the business lobby gets finished skewering their Congressmen (and women), we (the workers) would be lucky to see more than around $8.15.

          • Independent1

            I think the $15 is coming from the movement that is demonstrating in the streets and who has learned that multi-nationals could easily afford to pay that wage; given that Elizabeth Warren proved during a congressional hearing that all McDonald’s would have to add is 4 cents to one combo meal to pay their workers the $10.10 that Congress is pushing for stepped up over 3 years. And the fact that Costco already pays its workers more than $15/hour while maintaining prices that are very competitive with WalMart and which also outperforms WalMart in almost every business category. And not only does Costco pay more than double what WalMart, McDonalds, Target and may other pay, Costco also provides its workers with healthcare, vacations and pension plans. It’s pretty clear that large multi-nationals are not being forced to pay below a true living wage, they’re doing it because they want to keep the rest of us living like peons.

            And also so the boards and CEOs of these companies can pocket as much of the profits as possible and channel as much in dividends or paybacks to the generally already wealthy stockholders so they can pocket as much as possible and all enjoy themselves traveling the world and spending vacations on their luxury yacts.

  • TZToronto

    As I do every Christmas, I watched It’s a Wonderful Life on Christmas Eve. However, this was the first time I really thought critically about the message of the movie. In the run-on-the-bank scene, George Bailey asks one of the Building and Loan members if, when he was having financial problems the previous year, Potter would have let him keep his home. In other words, Potter–like so many big banks during the Great Recession–would have foreclosed on the property. In an earlier scene, Potter decries the easy credit, based on personal relationships, that the Building and Loan gives to people so they can build houses, claiming that such easy credit produces a lazy rabble rather than a thrifty working class. In short, the Building and Loan is helping the poor and the middle class to better their lives while Potter and the bank are doing their best to keep people in poverty. I’m sure Potter would have been against an increase in the minimum wage . . . My only question is why Potter, who knowingly kept his ill-gotten $8000 windfall due to Uncle Billy’s forgetfulness, wasn’t arrested for his crime. (I believe that SNL did a short sequel to It’s a Wonderful Life in which George Bailey and an angry mob stormed Potter’s office and literally kicked the stuffings out of him.)

    • Eleanore Whitaker

      Today’s “Enabler” mentalities find it difficult to criminalize so they trivialize what we all know is exploitative, deceptive and corrupt. It’s a sad commentary on how corruption by the greediest has been turned into a laundered fine art form.

      • RobertCHastings

        Damn, girl,you are eloquent!

  • Gotlift

    Why a $15 minimum wage does not work at Walmart article. If you are going to tinker with the minimum wage on a city, state, or federal level–please know and do not guess at things.

    • Independent1

      Sorry, I’m not buying the nonsense article from your link for 1 minute. It would IN NO WAY require that Wal-mart raise it’s prices by 15% in order to double the wages of their employees – that’s so much nonsense it borders on the ridiculous. That article is obviously created by a Wal-mart plant!!

      Costco pays their employees more than double what Wal-Mart does, with very competitive prices. And not only do Costco cashiers get $15-20/hr, Costco managers get $23-25/hr. And Costco’s financial results are very competive, in fact, Costco stock over the past 8 years or so is up about 1000%, whereas Wal-Mart and Target are only up about 400% – because Costco output performs Wal-Mart. And not only do Costco employees get more than twice the salary, they get vacations, healthcare and pension plans.

      On top of all that, Elizabeth Warren, Senator from Mass., demonstrated at a congressional hearing, that McDonald’s could afford to raise the wages of it’s staff from $7.25/hr to $10.10/hour by adding JUST 4 CENTS to the price of ONE COMBO MEAL. Get that now, 4 cents to one combo meal. And you want to try to get me to believe that Wal-mart which sells thousands upon thousands of products would have to raise it’s prices by 15% ??? That’s the biggest fantasy I’ve ever heard!! Talk about a company trying to brainwash people – Wow!! Wal-mart’s already at it!! Sorry, No Cigar!!

      And here’s another kicker – McDonald’s has stores in Europe where the minimum wage is $12/hr and virtually every store in Europe is more profitable than those in America where they pay almost $5 less per hour!!!

      • RobertCHastings

        I couldn’t agree with you more. But you better be careful speaking in favor of a European model for American capitalists to follow. You are likely to be labeled a socialist – just saying.

        • Independent1

          Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind. I sure wouldn’t want to be labeled a socialist. I have enough trouble with posters labeling me a lift-wing liberal. I’ve been tempted to post some rants from Bernie Sanders and Angus King the two Independent Senators whose comments in chastising the GOP would make mine sound like they came from a left-leaning Republican.

    • Joyce

      That article was written by Peter Schiff, the a** who went to a Walmart parking lot, pretended he was an employee and begged customers to help support his paltry salary. HE ASKED CUSTOMERS, telling them they owed him money because Walmart couldn’t afford to pay him more. What a bunch of hooey! This guy is a loaded with money and making more on the backs of the poor working class, by encouraging discrimination in pay wages. Don’t believe everything you read.

      • Bodine666

        Why do you attack the messenger? Do you have no argument for the message?
        Just curious. Why should anyone believe what you claim? As you say, don’t believe everything you read.

        • Independent1

          Joyce is probably attacking the messenger because he purposely approached WalMart shoppers and tried to hoodwink them into believing a LIE!! A blatant lie being that WalMart would have to increase it’s prices by 15% across the board in order to be able to pay their employees $15/hour wages. So his whole article is nothing more than an outright scam!!!

    • RobertCHastings

      Have you even looked at the source of the article you are providing a link to?

  • Dominick Vila

    While reducing income inequality should be the prime consideration, let;s not forget that our economy depends largely on consumerism. A higher minimum wage is like a lifeline for our business community. Opposing a higher minimum wage goes well beyond moral considerations, it is of critical importance to achieve sustainable growth and prosperity. I suspect the GOP is well aware of that, and that may be the reason they oppose it The last thing they want is a thriving economy, job growth, and the restoration of hope in a country whose economy was on the verge of collapse 6 years ago.

    • bikejedi

      Dom you are talking crazy if you think it is the GOP that is against a robust economy after the Cloward Piven Strategy that Obama has purposefully enforced . It is Obama’s policies that have brought on the greatest leap in income disparity is this Nations History . It is because of Obamanomics that we have the greatest percentage and number of Americans working Part time jobs or Minimum wage jobs . It is Obamaniomics that have given America the greatest number and percentage of Americans dependent on Tax Payer hand outs . It is because of these two issues that we have seen avg incomes drop $4000 ./ yr . This combined with massive and largely underreported unemployment numbers is what is causing the increase in the income gap …then you factor in the QE Policies of the Fed which is basicall printing digital money and investing it in the markets creating an artificial bubble that the Rich are using to increase their wealth and portfolios and there is the reason for the income disparity .
      On the subject of a minimum wage increase . I would support a small bump of maybe a dollar but anything more then that becomes counterproductive . For an example look at Illinois . We instituted a 1 dollar increase over the fed minimum wage and fast food joints stopped hiring and unemployment went up Also whenever you raise the Min wage the Co has to cover that overhead and passes it on to the consumers that is problematic because people go to your restaurant less and even when they do they then have less disposable in come to spend elsewhere . In that scenario people have to just get by with the basics and even McD’s becomes a luxury . Please stop talking like an Communist Occupier …a lot of these people think you are smart and you are filling their heads with a false , erroneous and counter productive class warfare argument designed to fire up the low information people to be jealous of achievers . What you should be doing is trying to instill in these people the drive and work ethic needed to become achievers themselves …Achievers are better then whiners after all .

      • Dominick Vila

        Blaming President Obama for the effects of the 2007 recession and the outsourcing of jobs that has been taking place for decades does not make any sense. In fact, his domestic policies, along with Bush’s TARP, prevented the collapse of the US. economy announced by President Bush in 2008 when he proposed the TARP to bail out the banks and preclude the end of capitalism.
        Income disparity has been one of our greatest problems for many years, and it took a turn for the worse as a result of the 2007 recession and policies that help our business community and the rich at the expense of the middle class and the poor. That has absolutely nothing to do with communism and a lot to do with a deliberate strategy to establish a plutocracy.
        Nobody in this forum needs my advice on anything, people like Sigrid, Independent, TZ Toronto and many others are very capable of thinking for themselves and post wonderful opinions on a variety of reasons that reflect their intellect and their knowledge.
        I believe a $15 increase in the minimum wage would damage our economy, but an increase to $10 or so is long overdue. Yes, prices are likely to go up slightly, but that would have more to do with greedy investors whose ROI expectations are inconsistent with the reality of our circumstances than than the impact of paying workers in the bottom of our social scale livable wages.
        What we need to achieve sustainable growth and prosperity is a combination of investment, incentives to encourage American companies to invest at home, penalties to those that invest overseas, investment in education with special focus on hard sciences, tougher welfare qualification restrictions, policies designed to encourage employers to hire full timers and offer good benefit packages to workers, and above all we need inventors. We need more Henry Fords, Edisons, Gates, and fewer entrepreneurs whose revolutionary ideas are to offer new cell phones in multiple colors.

        • bikejedi

          Dom I will give you this . Unlike a lot of Liberals you don’t just resort to calling people names who have a different view . Having said that I never brought up any outsourcing or what Obama inherited . Yes what he inherited wasn’t good but he knew that going in and still wanted the job . What I pointed out are the results to the American economy due to his and no one else’s policies .
          And your explanation / excuse for Obama’s record on the record number and percentage of Part timers and Minimum wage workers is nowhere near accurate . Robotics and automation have been around for a lot longer then the last 5 yrs and it didn’t cause this type of thing . No this is a Cloward Piven Strategy to turn this Country into a Socialist nation to ensure a permanent Dem voting majority . One of the major reasons for this is Obamacare . employers are not hiring full time workers anymore because of that law and it will only get worse after the ” wait until after the mid term waiver for businesses “ends .
          Oh and Independent. being able to post wonderful thoughts… please ????
          I have no problem with $10 but would prefer $9
          CEO’s always made a lot of money and that is not what is skewering Income disparity as there aren’t enough of those people to skewer those numbers
          The fact of the matter is that all the people on the left can make excuses for Obama’s dismal record on the economy and the Liberal media can chose to not report on it but that doesn’t change the fact that every other President besides this one was judged based on his record in office . Look Bush gets blamed for everything that happened on his watch and what happened on his watch was Jimmy Carters CRA Act of 1977 finally coming home to roost ..Just as the banks predicted they would when they told Congress and Clinton that the CRA was a house of cards that would fold eventually . Stop making excuses for Obama when you are astute enough to know that this is a purposeful plan on his part to make America a dependent nanny state and a Socialist nation .

          • WhutHeSaid

            Well I’m not looking for any up-votes, so I’ll be happy to insult a lying, terrorist-supporting, floppy-belly, Japanese-bike-riding right-wing nut bag.

            What’s your deal with citing 50 year old obscure political theories or Presidents? It has nothing to do with today. Just admit what your real problem is: You hate Obama because he’s black an you are a bigot. In fact, your bigoted hate for a black man overpowers your hate for Muslims — why is why you support Al Qaeda and Taliban extremists rather than back Obama’s targeting of them.

          • jmprint

            So what is wrong with ending poverty. In 1979 I was making $7.65 an hour that is 33 years ago. How much has inflation gone up since then. American people are not peasants, you are ruining this country with your paid ideology. This is not England, we don’t want monarchically. The reason we voted again for President Obama is because he does have a good record. Obstruction is what has stalemate his moves. You read the post, on NM, you just don’t bother to research, or you would be embarrassed, you don’t need to go past Bush. In your mind you think President Obama is trying to turn this country into a socialist nation. Repubilcan congressmen have been very busy derailing what America is all about, just because society changes, doesn’t give them the right to empower themselves to restrain certain people, we are ALL equal, we all have equal rights, that’s why we all pay taxes, so that this country continues to strive, it did well without the Tea Party is can do well again without them. Please make sure not to vote republican, it is not good for this nation.

          • bikejedi

            I have no problem with ending poverty and the way you do that is by allowing businesses to thrive and create jobs . I am not opposed to a small increase in the minimum wage but to raise it to $ 15 /hr would mean lost jobs and increased prices for consumers … that isn’t going to end poverty and never has . Look if it were that easy why not just raise the minimum wage to $60 /hr ? I mean that way everyone would be rich right ? It is a classwarfare argument aimed to make a straw man argument for undereducated uninformed people to rally around . Yes we are not England so why is Obama acting like a King or dictator rather then an elected servant ….and come on now ” we all don’t pay Taxes ” Most of the people who Vote Dem are on entitlements or are Public Union Members . Over 47% of Americans are not Tax Payers under Obama’s Policies .. Then you have Public Union members who are paid with Tax Dollars … So even when they pay taxes all they are really doing is giving us some of our money back …

            The Republican Congressmen who have the balls to try to stop Obama’s Socialist Cloward Piven strategy are doing just what the people who elected them want them to do . Someone has to stop all this irresponsibility for your children’s sake …Geez think about your kids and the debt Obama is going to leave them .

            And we all don’t have equal rights ..Under Obama businesses have been given an Illegal one year waiver to Obamacare .. all so that people don’t feel the effects of Obamacare until after they vote . It is Illegal for a President to change laws on his own ..yet he acts like a dictator and no one in the Liberal Media asks him about it . So Businesses are treated way better then individual workers under Obama .. Oh and what about all the Unions that are either exempt or being subsidized for their Health Plans … Is that being treated Equal … What about all the waivers given out on Nancy Pelosi’s district ? Is that equal treatment … How do you people deal with your own hypocrisy ?

          • jmprint

            ” Look if it were that easy why not just raise the minimum wage to $60 /hr”

            That makes you sound like a republican congressman. They parrot the same line…different monetary figures.

            I don’t recall saying that everybody wants to be rich, so why throw that in. We are talking about a $2.50 and hour hike, $5200 a year…it is proven that if an employee is happier he will produce more and that would make the CEO, who gets bonuses of half a million a year happier. Now let’s see how many employees that can a $2.50 a raise if that $500,000. bonus was redirected into payroll funds. Divide $500,000. by $5200. Wow a whopping 96 employees being able to survive a little bit less stressful life. Now do you really think that’s going to hurt any company, I don’t think so. The government can help subsidize the tax increases to smaller companies

            I have voted republican before and never have been any thing higher then middle class status and I have always paid taxes. Does that make me less of a person?

            “I have no problem with ending poverty”… “The Republican Congressmen who have the balls to try to stop Obama’s Socialist Cloward Piven strategy” your first quote is contradicted with your second quote.

            And there really isn’t any problem with ACA, you are just paid to continue dribbling the same old crap that is unsubstantiated, things will work themselve out as they roll out, give it a chance, quit being so negative. Unless you are getting paid to do this, and then I can tell you, you are doing a good job. Dominick, Indedendant and Eleanore have tried to educate you, but to no availe.

            Have A Happy POSITIVE New Year.

          • bikejedi

            $60 an hour comment is to display the utter lunacy of the Class warfare argument . It make me sound sane against the class warfare argument of the left for a min wage increase
            A $2.00 raise isn’t going to make these people who are being taught / brainwashed into thinking that they deserve $15 / hr for saying do you want fries with that a happy worker . These people are being brainwashed into thinking they should be able to be homeowners and support a family of four flipping burgers
            How do Rep Congressmen trying to stop a negative Obama economic policy or a purposeful Cloward Piven Strategy not help everyone in this Country …So yes I have no problem with ending Poverty . $0 yrs of Dem Policy and spending our Tax Dollars in the ” war on poverty ” has only increases poverty . to end it you have to promote good business and trade practices and then you create real jobs ..Not jobs that are paid by other tax payers or paying for failed Social Programs …We know that that has NOT worked .
            Im not paid by anyone and to say there is nothing wrong with Obamacare is a crazy statement … and you didn’t even address your statement which I proved was full of hooey on equal rights … We aren’t equal under Obama .. the Tax Payers who didn’t want Socialism are being forced to pay for it while Obama and the Dems have granted waivers to everyone who voted for them . After making a ludicrous statement on Obamacare you then say others have tried to educate me ???? Sounds like you are the ones who need to learn or admit that Obamacare is a Train Wreck . the rest of the country already knows … By the way for someone you think needs to be educated by the likes of Dom …let me remind you …for the last 3 yrs I have been here telling you what was wrong with Obamacare and why it would fail . I was here telling you that Obama was LYING about it … Who was right ???? Oh yeah that was me … I think you people shoukd swallow your pride put away your hate and just admit . Obama is a failure and so is Obamacare . Really it’s not that bad to admit he is a failure . I mean what did you expect when you elected a street organizer as President ? He just doesn’t have the resume to be President …

          • WhutHeSaid

            Obamacare hasn’t failed, so just stop your lying.

            Talking about ancient political theories like Cloward Piven is just another Fox News talking point for lying redneck bigots. The problem for people like you is that you are always lying, and nobody ever takes your arguments seriously because your lies are so incredibly obvious.

            The PPACA is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. As time goes on, it will become an indispensable part of American law, and it’s been overdue for decades. The United States’ healthcare system has been incredibly inefficient and expensive for quite a long time, and President Obama will go down in history as the President who brought the American health care system into the 21st century.

            Whatever drawbacks the PPACA has are the fault of you and people like you, who are doing everything they possibly can to hurt the American people — hoping that somehow President Obama will be blamed. But the American people won’t blame Obama at all, rather, they know full well that it’s the despicable, lying Tea Bigots like you who are to blame.

            How does it feel to know that you are the absolute dregs of society? Crack-heads have more integrity and honor than you, and they are far more honest. Everyone despises you hateful bigots, and they all know that you will never do anything useful for this country. Unlike the color of one’s skin, you hateful and worthless bigots could change your behavior and behave like decent people — but, of course, you never will and therefore you deserve to be reviled by all.

            Obama not only has the resume of a President — he IS the President. America elected him twice, and the more you despicable Tea Bigots lie, whine, and squeal — the more he is appreciated. If he was able to run for a third time, Americans would elect him again just to show their rejection of everything that you stand for. You’ve been utterly defeated by Obama. How does it feel for a bitter bigot like you to be so completely outclassed by a black man?

        • jmprint

          Good response, if only bikejedi could comprehend.

      • jmprint

        bikejedi, have you ever drawn unemployment funds?

        • bikejedi

          What does that have to do with any of this ? Have you ever drawn Unemployment ????

          • jmprint

            It is a question, can you answer it.

          • bikejedi

            Did you answer it ? I just asked you the same thing

          • WhutHeSaid

            He’s just trying to draw out another one of your lies, because it’s what you do and he knows it. You just can’t help yourself because you are a lying loser.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Poor Lil Walmart…Let’s all feel soooo sorry for the Walton billionaires. First, let’s look at the huge tax cuts they get just for locating their stores in certain towns in states across the country. Then, let’s take another look at how the states’ biggest utility companies give Walmart a “discount” rate for the natural resources they use in abundance. Who, pray tell, has to make up these losses? You guessed it…the Middle Class individual taxpayers.

    Now, let’s look at how Walmart stiffs it’s employees with salaries in these towns that so generously offer town land to Walmart to build their stores. Most of the people hired by Walmart are not remotely Middle Class. They are largely the elderly who can’t make it on SS and Medicare, the younger college age kids with huge college loans to pay or people who never had much of an education or job training. So what does our illustrious Walton family, the Pride of Plantation Mentalities, do then? They shift their workers onto federal welfare. How very very generous of them.

    • mah101

      Its called “socialized costs”, Eleanore. It goes hand in hand with privatization of resources and profits. The right likes to pretend it doesn’t exist and somehow it is the operation of the “free market” and competition, which it certainly is not. It is the result of explicit policies that shift resources and benefits to a few at the expense of many. You can’t even raise the issue since it proves you are somehow a mindless anti-capitalist liberal, yet social sciences study it all the time.

      Too bad we can’t have an adult conversation in this country. The corporate welfare from all levels of our government that flow to such companies as WalMart is sickening (literally).

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    No corporation NEEDS to raise its prices EVERY year. They do this at the behest of the CEO salaries that are obscene AND their need to fatten their Wall Street investments and ROI. All on the backs of consumers, employees and taxpayers they stiff with regularity.

    • Independent1

      And what’s really unfortunate, is that WalMart has hoodwinked people into believing that they have the lowest prices; when

  • howa4x

    Funny how Costco can pay 21.00/hr while Wal-Mart can’t crack 8.00 per hr. This shows how one business can have a social consciousness and the other are greedy bastards who suffer from a mental illness called the Midas syndrome. One day the middle calls will wake up and say, hey Waltons I will pay $1 more so you can raise your wages and I won’t have to pay your workers benefits. Conservatives would rather have the tax payers pay for benefits while billionaires make more. This is the argument they will loose. Christie tried it in NJ. He vetoed a bill raising the minimum wage and it was put to referendum by him as a show of arrogance. The voters overwhelmingly approved raising it. Even after the most popular governor and the Chamber of commerce ran multiple adds against it. Guess what? No Wal-Mart or Mc Donald’s closed because of it. So it can be done easily. I think every Blue state should jack it up and force them to give benefits then let the red states have the poorest population in the country which most do already.

    • Independent1

      You sure got that last sentence right, In 2011 there were 23 states that had more than 15% of their population living below the poverty level with 20 of those 23 states being Red States led by Mississippi with over 23% of that states population living in poverty. The three blue states were Calif., NY and New Mexico.

  • ThomasBonsell

    My proposal has always been to raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour and provide profit sharing to top that off. Not just a pittance of profit sharing, but earmark 75% of a company’s profit for the employees and 25% for the owners (shareholders). As employee productivity goes up so does the money from profit sharing. Additional income for shareholders would come dividends on overseas earnings.

    To get corporations to pay dividends on overseas earnings, make it illegal to pay any member of the board of directors from any source of funds except dividends. Limit the CEO’s pay to a figures determined by the number of American citizens employed at his/her corporation. Then watch the jobs come back from overseas. The CEO could also increase his/her pay package with dividends, making sure that all executives and members of the board have a financial stake in the company.

    • Independent1

      What your proposing sounds workable to me and would certainly be a much better deal than employees are getting today. Unfortunately, given the mindset of CEOs and those backing our legislators, getting something like your proposal even considered by today’s congress would be really tough to sell. My guess is that instead of your proposed 75/25 employee/owner split for profit sharing, it’s currently more like 3%/97% with CEOs and corporate boards sucking up virtually all the profits that can be allocated to salaries themselves.

  • RobertCHastings

    The level of compensation at which the federal government considers an individual to be in poverty is just over $16,000 per year. IF that individual is working forty hour weeks (full-time), that works out to only $8.00 per hour (really, a little less than $8). $10 per hour would put him at $20,000 per year. At that level of compensation, it is hard enough for an individual to support himself, let alone a wife and two kids, which is the average family in this country. If that same individual is married and his wife works making roughly what he makes (highly unlikely) and they have two kids, they are living (as a family) at well below the poverty level. Walmart and other big-box stores, as well as fast food and other service jobs provide employees with minimum wage jobs that leave millions of families in this country working full time, but still in poverty. Making that worse is the tendency among larger businesses to have full-time employees with no benefits (insurances, sick leave, vacation or holiday pay, etc.). Companies laid off full time employees from 2008 on and hired them back as part-timers, expecting them to perform the same job they had run for years for half the wages AND no benefits, and they have been permitted to get away with this. In times of economic downturn, crime inevitably increases, as do poverty and homelessness. While the DJ is at record levels (two and a half times what it was in the middle of the W years), it must be apparent that SOMEONE is making out like a bandit. Where is all that wealth going? It certainly is not going toward creating jobs.

  • RED

    A good solution would be to tie the minimum wage to a percentage of the amount Congress is paid. So currently, they get around $175,000 (not counting all the other benefits), so say around 18% to 20% makes a minimum wage of around $16.00/hr. And to me it seems fairly simple because if the Congress believes they need extra compensation then those workers at the bottom must need extra as well.