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The Senate Torture Report: Crimes Without Punishment

Editor's Blog Memo Pad Politics

The Senate Torture Report: Crimes Without Punishment

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With the release of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report on the use of torture by the Central Intelligence Agency after 9/11, the final defense of the indefensible by its perpetrators, advocates, and publicists is falling apart before our eyes.

Not only did “enhanced interrogation,” the Nazi euphemism adopted by the Bush-Cheney administration, employ methods outlawed and prosecuted by our country for more than a century, such as waterboarding; and not only did those “activities,” as Dick Cheney called them, violate American law, the Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, and the conventions on torture; but we now know with great certainty that the agency executed this secret program with horrific incompetence — and that it produced nothing of significant value.

Indeed, the Senate Intelligence report concludes, contrary to the boasting of Cheney and many others, that torture was proved “not an effective means of gathering intelligence,” let alone saving millions of Americans from jihadi plots, and actually “complicated and in some cases impeded the national security missions.” The overseers of the torture program, themselves of dubious competence, were unable even to assess the impact or effectiveness of their orders.

As Micah Zenko of the Council on Foreign Relations points out, the CIA itself has admitted, in its otherwise aggressive response to the SSCI, that it lacked the “structure, expertise, and methodologies” to “systematically evaluate the effectiveness of our covert programs. They literally didn’t know what they were doing. But they were doing grave damage to themselves and to us.

Unavoidably, the Senate Intelligence report dwells on the details of these true nightmares, revealing facts that anyone would regret learning: the “rectal rehydration” of detainees by shoving food up the wrong way, with the infliction of excruciating pain; the “black sites” where detainees were held for months in total darkness, loud music constantly playing, and only a bucket for their waste; the cells where detainees suffered such freezing temperatures that at least one died of hypothermia overnight; the beatings, the near-drownings, the constant infliction of pain, hunger, and threats of rape and murder.

According to the report, some episodes of interrogation were so blatantly sadistic and so obviously criminal that the men who witnessed them actually wept. More than one officer broke down and fled, through retirement or transfer, while the White House and the Pentagon continued to lie about the extent – and the supposed necessity – of these unprecedented crimes. Those lies were designed to prevent investigations or oversight from revealing the horrific facts that are now emerging.

Yet despite a long and ongoing cover-up –and notwithstanding the specific revelations highlighted in the report – the basic outline has been known since 2009, when portions of the CIA inspector general’s report on torture were released by the Obama Justice Department in 2009.

Back then, the spy agency’s own investigation – in the words of a Bush appointee and torture enthusiast — “[found it] difficult to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks.” In other words, the agency could never prove any instance when the sole justification for these gross violations of US and international law – breaking up a plot targeting American lives – had been fulfilled since 9/11. And unsurprisingly, that is still the case.

The searing issue we now confront, as a society governed by law, is that these lawbreakers will not be prosecuted or even required to testify publicly about their grave offenses. The Obama administration is apparently willing to expose their lawlessness, but unable to do anything to punish it. Even the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, Anthony Romero, has abandoned any hope of prosecutions, noting that the torturers have in effect been pardoned. Romero has urged President Obama to make those pardons official – which would at least stamp the actions of the torturers and their accomplices as crimes.

What we have needed for years, but evidently will never get, is a truth and reconciliation process that might have granted freedom from prosecution to witnesses who testified publicly, honestly, and completely about the crimes of the Bush administration. Instead, those miscreants will escape accountability altogether – except in the pages of history, where the Senate Intelligence report will indict them over and over again.

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Joe Conason

A highly experienced journalist, author and editor, Joe Conason is the editor-in-chief of The National Memo, founded in July 2011. He was formerly the executive editor of the New York Observer, where he wrote a popular political column for many years. His columns are distributed by Creators Syndicate and his reporting and writing have appeared in many publications around the world, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Nation, and Harpers.

Since November 2006, he has served as editor of The Investigative Fund, a nonprofit journalism center, where he has assigned and edited dozens of award-winning articles and broadcasts. He is also the author of two New York Times bestselling books, The Hunting of the President (St. Martins Press, 2000) and Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth (St. Martins Press, 2003).

Currently he is working on a new book about former President Bill Clinton's life and work since leaving the White House in 2001. He is a frequent guest on radio and television, including MSNBC's Morning Joe, and lives in New York City with his wife and two children.

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500 Comments

  1. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

    The release of a congressional report that highlights the crimes and violations of the U.S. Constitution and the rule of law by the U.S. does not REVEAL anything everyone already did not know, it simply CONFIRMS what everyone suspected.
    The question now is what’s next? Coming out clean may help our credibility in the long run, but a report without action designed to set an example and tell our society, and the world at large, that we do not condone such behavior, is meaningless, and there lies the conundrum the Obama administration is now facing.
    The choice for the administration are limited to: ignoring the report, granting pardons, or prosecuting those responsible for crimes against humanity, and for deliberate violations of the Constitution, U.S. laws, and international laws.
    Ignoring the report will only elicit ridicule and a conclusion that, as a minimum, the U.S. government does not take this embarrassing episode in our history seriously, and at worst, that it condones what happened.
    A pardon is likely. What is not clear is how far it will go. The Obama administration is on record as opposing prosecution against Bush administration officials. This report may force them to reconsider that stand. I the Administration to exonerate President George W. Bush due to lack of evidence indicating that he knew what was going on or that he ordered what we euphemistically referred to as “enhanced interrogation techniques and renditions”. Some of the answers given by former VP Cheney suggest that he either knew what was happening, or suspected and ignored the crimes that were being committed. A pardon is likely. The scapegoat is likely to be the CIA Director, who not only knew what was taking place, but lied to Congress. The same will happen to those who carried out the crimes against humanity. An issue that deserves attention is what are we going to do about the foreign governments that allowed the CIA to transport and “interrogate” prisoners in countries like Poland? Are we going to let the government in those countries, who trusted and supported the USA, bear the brunt of political pressures and, possibly, lead to their fall from power?
    The last option is prosecution, an option that may prove to be embarrassing to the USA, as it is likely that more details of what happened will emerge. Blaming the CIA seems like a convenient excuse, similar to what the German people said when they claimed they did not know what was happening during the Third Reich. Sen. Feinstein just opened a can of worms, and I fear that if this is not handled properly, our credibility and ability to advise other nations will only elicit laughter from anyone capable of rational thinking.

    Reply
    1. TZToronto December 10, 2014

      As I understand it, torture does not work very well in eliciting reliable information from those trained to withstand it. Better information (or at least information that is no more unreliable) is gained through befriending the subject rather than through torturing him. It’s kind of like the Stockholm Syndrome. Of course, as I also understand it, at least some of those imprisoned and tortured were falsely accused in the first place and had nothing of intelligence value to give. As for pardoning those who planned, promoted, and carried out the torture, I’d much rather see at least some people charged and tried for their crimes. That would give them a chance to testify in their own defense and to name those who gave them their orders, and those people could, in turn, be charged and tried, and so on. How high it could go is something we don’t yet know, but we can guess that Darth Vader had a pretty good idea of what was going on.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        As you understand? How could you possibly understand? You would turn on your mother over a finger nail removal.

        Reply
        1. TZToronto December 10, 2014

          I’ve been trained to resist the most brutal torture. Of course, I could actually betray my mother. She wouldn’t mind (any more). Regardless, more humane treatment is likely to result in better, more reliable information. Who would you cooperate with? Someone who’s trying to kill you in the most painful manner possible or someone who just wants some information from you? Oh, I know what you’ll say, but you’re undoubtedly wrong.

          Reply
          1. ps0rjl December 10, 2014

            You are correct. The Nazis learned early on that torturing allied crewmen shot down and captured yielded no good intel. They then changed their tactics so that when a crewman was shot down they would assign an English speaking German to befriend him. They would see to it that any injuries he had were properly attended to, that he was furnished a hot meal, and was even given new clothes if needed. Then over the course of the next few days he would through casual conversation without realizing it give up important information. One thing the German would not do is lie to the crewman. They would tell him that eventually he would be taken to a POW camp. Through this technique the Germans learned things such as how far the fighter could accompany the bombers so they would know were to position the Luftwaffe. These techniques were known to our people but they preferred to use torture as it would lead to quicker results even if the information was wrong.

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    2. ps0rjl December 10, 2014

      Unfortunately our credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world has already been lost. We must just face the fact that we as a nation have now sunk as low as the most vile nations such as North Korea. The men who did this must now be thought of as the most vile humans we harbor within our borders and at the head of this group is Dick Cheney. We are no longer that shining beacon on the hill.

      Reply
      1. janis mcdonald December 10, 2014

        Our credibility has been lost — because we have not been credible! I doubt we have EVER been “that shining beacon on the hill” — I think we used to hide things better!

        Reply
        1. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

          The USS Maine that precipitated the Spanish-American war in 1898 , the USS Pueblo, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Iran-Contra scandal used to circumvent Congress and obtain financial means to help the Nicaraguan contras, the WMD excuses used to invade Iraq, the threats posed to the USA by the minuscule island of Grenada, and other such well kept “secrets” come to mind…
          However, there is a difference between using deceitful means to pursue a goal, and engaging in crimes against humanity.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

            Crimes against humanity? Have you ever had the tiger by the tail? You are nothing but empty talk. Incorrect and boring.

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            Isn’t there anything going on in your trailer park these days? I don’t mind you redneck numbskulls wandering out once in awhile, but only if you wash first — and this is getting a bit much. I’m guessing that your sister is out of town, and who can blame her?

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

          The US has never had any creditability until we were needed to save some whinny country from being obliterated.

          Reply
          1. TZToronto December 10, 2014

            That’s whiney, not whinney.

            Reply
      2. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        The rest of the world? The whole rest of the world or just part of the rest of the world. Who in hell cares?

        Reply
    3. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      You are the number one blathering fool on this DH site. When you make a post I bet you hump the monitor.

      Reply
      1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

        You sound jealous to me. Stop trying to flirt with Dominick — you appear to have already pissed off the pooch enough as it is.

        Reply
    4. mike December 10, 2014

      So let me get this straight, Obama can blow to smithereens American citizens and their families who may or may not be a terrorist, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, with Drones and nothing is said. But give sleep deprivation and physical stress, but still alive, to a known terrorist and the left goes crazy.
      Baloney!!!
      You on the left have your heads up your a_ _.

      Reply
      1. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

        Are you referring to the Yemeni, who after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen, engaged in terrorist activities including planning attacks against U.S. military forces, Americans in Arab countries, and U.S. interests in the region? If that’s the angel you are referring to, all I can say is good riddance. In case you missed it, we have been engaged in a war against terrorism since before 9/11, and targeting those who threaten our citizens and interests is fair play when it comes to war. Torture is something entirely different, and for most of us it is the most defining difference between civilized nations, such as ours, and terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda and ISIS.

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        1. mike December 10, 2014

          As usual you try to put words in my mouth, I never said Angel.
          Again, is it perfectly OK for Obama to kill Americans with drones without due process? Yes or No
          To put today’s time frame on the time frame right after 9/11 is just plain, hooey!!!
          Everyone was afraid, concerned by the possibility of more attacks on US and Americans expected the govt. to protect them, anything else would have been derelict of duty. Yes, we have been fighting terrorism for years before 9/11 but the murder of 3000 on our soil was a terrible shock not seen in all the years before 9/11 and it changed everything.
          War is War, it is ugly and quite frankly to protect the American people any means necessary is the right move. Screw the PC crap. Remember the terrorist were combatants not under the Geneva Convention. Kum ba Yah moments did not exist and should not exist. At least the prisoners are still alive and some are now free, while others are living half way decent lives in Cuba, while those killed by drones are gone forever as are their families and other victims of collateral damage.
          As to Obama prosecuting, that is a no go. Obama does not want another administration prosecuting his attacks on Americans without due process. Remember, Bush got the OK from DOJ just like Obama got approval from Holder to use drones on our citizens. So there is no way in hell he wants that can of worms opened after he leaves office.

          Reply
          1. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            If a naturalized Americans joins a terrorist organization, and calls for attacks against American soldiers, civilians, and our interests abroad, the answer to your question is yes.
            Why should we risk the lives of American soldiers to capture and bring a man born in Yemen to the USA for trial, when the actions of that man deny him the privilege to be treated as a naturalized U.S. citizen?
            The 9/11 attack, the worst of its kind in U.S. history, happened when Republicans controlled the WH and Congress. Needless to say, it warranted retribution and increased security to limit the probability of more attacks. Unfortunately, what happened was anything but pragmatic or logical. Instead of holding Saudi Arabia, the homeland of 15 of the 18 terrorists that carried out the 9/11 attack, the homeland of Osama bin Laden, and the homeland of the Saudi Arabia Wahabist princes that financed 9/11, we invaded Iraq to project an illusion of retribution that was nothing more than a chimera. In any case, the last thing a civilized nation should do is to emulate the heinous behavior of terrorists.

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          2. mike December 11, 2014

            Dom, you cannot pick and choose. If you believe “enhanced interrogation” is wrong, unlawful/unconstitutional then you cannot say killing Americans without “due process”, not charged with a crime is lawful. Makes no difference where they are, charge them with a crime. Obama is wrong from a legal/constitutional point, and that is why no one will be prosecuted from the Bush Admin. by Obama.

            So Bush being in office for 7 months caused 9/11? Forget that the planning was done under a Democratic President and Administration in which attacks on our soil WTC, Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia and our embassies overseas. You seem to forget Clinton did little to pressure the Saudi, documented by Elsa Walsh and Louis Freeh, in fact he hardly brought it up to the Saudi’s on the Towers attack. What else did Clinton not pursue??
            So save me your Bull S _ _ t crap about a Republican controlled govt. failure!!!

            Reply
          3. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Torture is illegal throughout the entire world, and the US has prosecuted people for such crimes before. After World War II a number of Japanese soldiers were executed for the very same thing, while many more were sentenced to lengthy prison terms. Even a Texas Sheriff was sentenced to 10 years in prison in 1981 for waterboarding prisoners.

            ‘Enhanced Interrogation’ is a direct English translation of the German term (verschaerfte vernehmungthat) used by the Gestapo. Aren’t you proud of yourself for being in such good company?

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          4. mike December 11, 2014

            I see you are trying to wear big boy pants again.
            Obama won’t prosecute because it opens him up to some other administration interpretation of the law for crimes-drone attacks on American citizens- he may commit even though his DOJ gave a go ahead. Sound familar??? It is unlawful to kill an American citizen without DUE PROCESS, without charging with a crime. No matter what justification the Admin./DOJ puts on it, it is still unlawful. And that is why Obama won’t prosecute those who were told it was approved under the Bush years.
            I see you won’t touch the 2 department heads in Obama departments who were involved in the controversial tactics under Bush. Is Obama going to prosecute them??? No!!! Forcing them to resign?? I doubt it.
            Only you on the left would be outraged over some physical/mental pain to a person, who wants us dead, yet still alive, but doesn’t give it a second thought in killing Americans citizens, their families and others(collateral damage) without due process.

            And you are proud that this administration is murdering American citizens without due process, Right??

            Both are Constitutionally wrong, that is the bottom line. War is hell, but you think as long as it is my guy, I will ignore it.

            Reply
          5. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            See? You are just flat-out wrong. I actually don’t support Obama targeting US citizens with drone strikes. If a US citizen is in enemy territory fighting with them against the US, and they happen to be killed alongside their buddies, then that’s a different situation. But to specifically target an American citizen for death without due process IS unconstitutional in my view.

            And I personally believe that all of the people involved in committing crimes should be at least reviewed for possible charges, although prosecuting many of these crimes would be extraordinarily difficult since they were covert operations. Aside from that, targeting a Presidential Administration for crimes is a difficult endeavor in any case, and it’s supposed to be up to Congress to handle something of that magnitude. Unfortunately, Congress has been at best asleep at the wheel and at worst complicit in this whole business.

            I think that Obama’s call to decline pursuing prosecution was a practical decision more than anything else. With all of the ruckus from the right wing over just the simple fact that the man has black skin, one can only imagine what would happen if the first black President also initiated the first prosecution of a predecessor’s administration.

            Your problem is that you attack Obama with every sounding of the dog-whistle, and people are going to ignore the one or two situations where your arguments actually have some merit. That’s the moral of the story to crying ‘wolf!’ every time Obama ties his shoes, and the reason that Obama will get a pass on some things that perhaps he shouldn’t. It’s your own fault, that.

            Reply
          6. mike December 11, 2014

            I see you are still shoveling all that racist horse manure.
            So pathetic!!!
            No, I am not wrong.

            Reply
          7. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Yes, you are obviously wrong. I said I don’t support drone strikes against American citizens without due process. So your claim that I don’t think about these things and/or that I approve of them is just another one of your lies.

            That’s the problem with you despicable bigots — you can’t agree with anyone over anything because of your vile hate, even when they believe the same thing. If Obama suddenly went on national TV and said it’s good to breathe, all of you bigots would turn blue and pass out within 3 minutes. Dolt.

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          8. mike December 11, 2014

            As I have said and will continue to say quit shoveling this racist crap.
            His color has nothing to do with it for 98% that think his policies are taking us down a bad path.

            He is just a poor leader!!!!

            Reply
          9. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            There are some things that he’s done that I don’t agree with, but most of what he’s done is fix up the mess the country was left in by Bush. The PPACA was definitely LONG overdue, and if anyone doesn’t like it they should have come up with their idea of a better plan. Not doing anything was totally unacceptable, and all the House Republicans did was try to bring Obama down any way they could. They failed, and wasted the time and money of the whole country.

            If you say that having an economy that’s adding 321,000 jobs in a month is the wrong direction, then you’d be lying. Ditto for unemployment dropping every month since Obama got a grip on Bush mess. Ditto for the increase in health care costs dropping to the lowest rate in decades. Ditto for nailing Osama Bin Laden. Ditto for cutting the deficit by two thirds. Ditto for ending an idiotic, unfunded war that was based on lies to the American public and left the whole region unstable. Ditto for the stock market doing better than ever before in history, as opposed to tanking and devastating Americans’ retirements savings. If you tell me that any of these things are the wrong direction then I know you are just lying.

            As for the other things like drone strikes, NSA surveillance or supporting gay marriage, you have a right to have a differing opinion and I would respect that. You can even say that Obama is wrong in the way he handled the Ferguson and Staten Island police killings, or perhaps the Trayvon Martin case — any of those things are legitimate topics where honest people can disagree. But for you to claim that EVERYTHING Obama has done is wrong and he’s done nothing right, well, if that’s your claim it’s because you are a bigot or racist — period. There’s no other way to slice it, so own your own behavior like a big boy.

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          10. mike December 11, 2014

            Your first paragraph.
            ACA is a mess, “On average” premiums have gone up not down, out of pocket has gone up, deductibles have increased substantially. Those are facts. Enrollment is less than they said it was. Cost is going up not down effecting debt and deficit. Experts say the drop in costs have more to do with the slow economy and other factors than ACA.
            ACA was built on lies and deception. latest poll shows the highest disapproval 58%.
            What the left loves to do is take one month and try to make it the indicator that all is rosy. Give me four or more then I will believe. Today’s first time unemployment numbers were lower than projected-a good sign.
            As to cutting deficit you seem to ignore the higher revenues coming in. AKA, higher taxes.
            On stock market, yes it is up for several reasons, corporations having less cost(fewer employees) and more profit to buy their stock back which raises their price of stock. But, most important, is the Fed has kept interest rate at almost zero. Why so low? because the economy is doing so poorly.
            As to your last paragraph.
            More shoveling of the racist crap. Only in your mind can any criticism of Obama be racist, not legitimate disagreement of his approach.
            His policies not his color is what many dislike.
            Quite frankly he has set racial harmony back. In one poll 45% of blacks say relations are worse while whites say 52%. And yet he was going to be the great uniter.

            Reply
          11. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            LOL. Do you ever stop and read your own nonsense? Let me address a few of you ridiculous statements:

            Mike on the ACA: “Cost is going up not down effecting debt and deficit. Experts say the drop in costs have more to do with the slow economy and other factors than ACA.”

            The costs have ALWAYS risen, so that’s a disingenuous statement. What is absolutely true is that while the cost of health care is still rising (as always), the rate of increase is the lowest in over 50 years. But you said that “Cost is going up not down effecting [sic] debt and deficit.”. What a statement — you claim in one statement two things that are complete opposites. “cost is going up and not down” and “Experts say the drop in costs…” are completely inconsistent.

            The Congressional Budget Office has specifically stated that the slowdown in the rate of increases for heath care costs are the single largest reason for it’s revised estimates in the long-term deficit. While it’s true that the ACA isn’t credited with being the only reason for this slowdown in escalating costs or even the primary reason, it clearly didn’t say that the ACA wasn’t a contributor. What’s most important is that it completely debunks the claim that the ACA is accelerating health care costs and worsening the deficit. Because the people who claimed (like you) that Obamacare would make costs skyrocket, kill jobs, and increase the deficit have been proven totally wrong — they now have to try to claim that the decrease in previous deficit estimates isn’t due t the ACA. So that’s furious backpedaling from predictions of gloom and doom that have been totally debunked.

            Mike on ACA: “ACA was built on lies and deception. latest poll shows the highest disapproval 58%”

            First, you have offered no proof that there were any intentional ‘lies and deceptions’ upon which the ACA was ‘built’ (how does any legislation get built upon lies, anyway?). Second, exit polling of voters in the 2014 discredits your claim as those who approve of the ACA and those who disapprove was a statistical tie. Counting those who say the ACA ‘doesn’t go far enough’ as opposing the law is willful deceit, as those people like the ACA but just wish it went even further. Further, polls that specifically ask people about individual parts of the ACA show that many people don’t even realize that their favorite benefits are actually part of the law.

            Mike on the deficit:“As to cutting deficit you seem to ignore the higher revenues coming in. AKA, higher taxes.”

            Well, duh! That’s one of the normal factors in cutting the deficit, so what’s your point? The deficit HAS been cut by 2/3 since Obama took office. So you are now claiming that the fact that the improving economy under the Obama Administration is somehow cheating? That’s a perfectly good way to help reduce the deficit, and to claim that there’s something negative about this is asinine.

            Mike on the stock market’s record performance: “On stock market, yes it is up for several reasons…”

            Well who really cares WHY it is performing at record levels? The important thing is that it IS, and that’s much better than the bottom falling out from under the market, thereby devastating the retirement saving of millions of Americans. A record performance is a record performance — there’s nothing about it that you can declare is ‘cheating’ or ‘bad’. It’s just a good thing.

            Mike on denying that bigots find fault with everything Obama does because he’s black: “His policies not his color is what many dislike.”

            I just went through your entire list point by point. Every single point proves that you will try any kind of warped logic or ridiculous excuse to try to somehow put a negative spin on things that Obama has greatly improved. So what is your reason for calling all of these good things bad? I know what it is, and other posters here know what the reason is. But I’d like to hear you explain it again. Here’s your chance to try to conjure up a plausible reason.

            Reply
          12. mike December 12, 2014

            I see the those big boy pants still don’t fit.

            Obama said premiums would go down 2500.00, but going up on average. Health care was increasing around 8% before ACA and now 5%+ under ACA and out of pocket and deductibles much higher.

            http://moneymorning.com/2013/02/08/the-7-biggest-obamacare-lies/

            http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/politics/cost-of-coverage-under-affordable-care-act-to-increase-in-2015.html

            http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2014/11/11/Obamacare-2015-Low-Premium-Increases-High-Deductibles
            Read the whole article below because it address many of your points.
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/10/17/now-there-can-be-no-doubt-obamacare-will-increase-the-deficit/

            You said “ditto for the increase in health care costs dropping……”. I said the drop in cost is not due just to ACA(not implemented) but due to economic conditions.

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/06/12/obamacare_and_the_cbo_–_no_longer_giddy_122956.html

            Watch the video showing Gruber(same guy that worked personally with Obama and 13+ visits to the WH) say it was built on a lie.

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/

            Stock market: Obama can’t take credit for it other than overseeing a poor economy.

            “It’s his policies not his color” is the driving force for his disapproval numbers. You will believe what you want but those with half a brain know it is his poor performance in all phases of governing. Again, answer the question, where were all the blacks in mid-term if it was all about race rather than results.

            Only hate I see is yours.

            Reply
          13. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            Perhaps I can’t quite get my big boy pants on, but that’s nothing compared to you waddling around in your soiled diapers.

            I don’t even have to read anyone’s articles to know what’s been happening with deductibles and co-payments for many, many years. At one point I had 100% coverage with no deductible and no co-pay. That was many years ago, and all of those things have been increasing steadily LONG before Obama was even in the Senate, let alone before the PPACA. So blaming those things on Obamacare as if they just suddenly started increasing is a whopper.

            You said it yourself — previous 8% rate of increase dropping to 5%. I really doesn’t matter if you want to claim that it’s the economy or just an magical alignment of planets — the fact is that the PPACA is here and it’s not increasing, rather, it’s decreasing. So hysterical predictions of gloom and doom were and are false. Whatever the reason the fact remains that cost increases have slowed, and that’s a good thing.

            There are plenty of nitwits that commit gaffes, and taking one numbskull like Gruber and making hay out of off-the-cuff comments is no more meaningful than taking John McCain’s view on torture and saying that because he’s a Republican then that’s the Republican view on the CIA’s ‘interrogation’ program. You must realize how many gaffes have been made by Republicans on everything from ‘legitimate rape’ to ‘I’m not a witch’ to ‘47%’ that even making such an absurd claim should make you burn with shame.

            Obama has been the President for 6 years. Since then the stock market performance has risen to historical levels. Not during Bush’s Presidency, not during Reagan’s, not even during Clinton’s — during Obama’s. Whatever the reason is he gets the credit. If it was historically low performance don’t even try to tell me that you wouldn’t lay all the blame on him in a NY minute.

            Just face it: Obama has presided over a number of positive developments that some people twist themselves into pretzels attempting to find something, ANYTHING other than Obama to credit for it. Likewise the same people try to make the ABSENCE of issues (PPACA, etc.) attributable to some nebulous ’cause’ in order to try to deflect attention to the fact that there aren’t any issues.

            Why would people go through such gyrations to try to substitute their desired reality with what is actual reality? I know the answer, but let’s hear you explain it.

            Reply
          14. mike December 12, 2014

            You can’t explain why under ACA that out of pockets have jumped so high or that deductibles have doubled, that’s fine but they have and it is all part of ACA.
            You can’t admit that Obama’s $2500 reduction in cost was a lie. Premiums up, deductibles up, out of pocket up to all time highs, that’s fine but they are just the opposite of what Obama promised.
            Gruber comments were not gaffes, they happened over and over again-7 at this time on video.
            All could be moot if SCOTUS throws out subsidies under fed. exchanges. We will wait and see.
            Still getting a good chuckle about stock market, he gets credit, only in your pea brain. Stock prices will be a side note in his legacy.
            Sorry you didn’t read/watch that what I gave you, you might have learned for once and had your head out of the sand.
            One more time, if all is so great under Obama explain to me why the democratic party got destroyed in the mid-terms?? Where was his base if all is so good?

            Reply
          15. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            Yes, in fact I can explain why deductibles and out of pocket limits have increased: Because insurance companies are Nervous Nellies whenever anything changes and they aren’t sure how the cost is going to shake out. But I’ve also seen that when these same insurance companies overcompensate and don’t spend 80% of their premiums on claims (simplified) they have to cut a check to the consumers for the difference. Did you forget that part?

            Gruber’s comments were a nitwit running off at the mouth — for whatever reason — and holding a hearing only served to deflate the impact of his comment, which he himself says were a “speak-o” (think typo). So what Republicans jumped on as if it was the proverbial smoking gun actually vanished like a fart in the wind when they pressed it. Perhaps they should have brought Dick Cheney in to waterboard whatever confession they wanted out of him on the Hill.

            The stock market is performing at record highs, and you may as well chuckle because the laughs on you: You have no explanation what alien force can be cited so that you can justify taking the credit away from the Obama Administration. It is what it is — Obama is President, the stock market is golden.

            Second term midterms always bring losses for the incumbent President, so it’s not really that big of a deal. Yes, it’s a bigger loss than normal, but despite the claims that it was a referendum on Obamare and immigration, exit polls showed otherwise. What you fail to explain is how the entire country elected Obama twice and all of a sudden despises him. Well, they don’t, and the fact that wrinkled old white folks were about the only ones at the polls isn’t exactly news. It will be much different in 2016 when everyone votes.

            So you still haven’t explained why you can’t bring yourself to give Obama the credit he is due for changing Bush’s 800,000 per month job losses into 300,000 per month jobs gains, why he nailed Bin Laden and Bush didn’t, why he cut the deficit by 2/3 and brought the economy back from a free fall yet still in you mind is clearly the most horrible person on the planet. Like I said: I know why you see it this way, and so do most other posters here. But you still need to explain it — please do.

            Reply
          16. mike December 12, 2014

            ” Nervous Nellies” Really!!! What a stupid and ignorant explanation.

            The reason for higher deductibles and out of pocket is because the Democrats wanted lower premiums through market-based cost controls. Mandating coverage while requiring affordable premiums also forces the insured to carry a larger share of the cost/burden. Simply put, the way it was written is the problem, idiot.

            As to Gruber, he must NOT have done that well because he is headed back next year. The American people saw thru his testimony and it changed very little. SCOTUS WILL HEAR HIS REMARKS THIS SPRING.

            I see you are still brain dead on Stock Market, it will be a footnote nothing more in history.

            Read and weep:

            http://www.equities.com/editors-desk/personal-finance/retirement/why-the-stock-market-did-so-well-while-the-economy-was-doing-so-poorly

            As to mid terms: 2 mid-terms and Obama has lost more demo. congressional seats than all but one other president. This mid-term dems lost in blue states both state and local races. No this was a disaster and it all comes from the top of the party.
            Exit poles: Economy was number 1. healthcare number 2 and foreign affairs and immigration 2 and 4.

            One more time. if all these accomplishments you claim Obama did were so great why did the exit polls by 66% say country going in wrong direction.
            I never called Obama horrible person, so don’t put words in my mouth, what I have said he is a poor leader, not trusted, has a dour political sense, etc..

            Reply
          17. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            When it comes to health care you wouldn’t know your own a$$ from a hole in the ground.

            It’s funny how you claim that the reason for high deductibles and copayments is due to a law that isn’t even fully implemented yet, while those high deductibles and copays have been around for decades already. Premium increase have actually slowed in the last few years, and deductibles and copays haven’t really trended any different at all. How do you explain the deductible and copay increases from before the PPACA went into effect, hmm? Is that another one of your ‘magical’ events caused by some rare cosmic alignment of planet and stars?

            In 2014 individual plan premiums increased at a much lower rate than the several previous years at around 8.4%. Previous to that it was averaging at 10% or (2011 was almost 12%) better every year. Employer costs are doing even better at lower than 3% — as you yourself previously admitted but attributed to ‘magical’ forces. And even more importantly, insurers themselves are actually experiencing a decline in claims. Of course insurance companies are going to make conservative predictions for the next year or two because nobody can predict how the cost/profit margin is going to shake out with full participation. But claiming that there are any increases going on now that weren’t happening already long before the PPACA is a bald-faced lie.

            Benghazi zealots and rabid birthers have already beat the Gruber comments to death, and the American people aren’t the least bit concerned with all of the hyperventilating wing-nuts. It’s old news already, and wasn’t really much of a story to being with. You can continue to wring your hands over it if you wish.

            Regarding exit polls (not poles, BTW) the economy was number 1, sure, but a plurality of people said it was getting better in stark contrast to just a few short years ago. And the number of people who consider the economy a major issue has fallen from around 70% in 2008 to around 45% in 2014. Republican approval ratings are still lower than Obama, who by the way wasn’t running for any office.

            Finally, even though 66% said that things were headed in the wrong direction, that doesn’t translate into ‘everything about Obama is going in the wrong direction and everything about Republicans is just peachy’. The voters clearly saw problems everywhere in Washington, and Republican approval ratings were not good no matter the results. All of this with over 65% of the voters older than 45, and you count on a much different result in 2016 when all of the younger people and minorities go to the polls.

            Obama set several historical records as President so far, including lowering the deficit faster than any other President in history — ditto for the unemployment rate. He presided over a recovery from one of the worst economic crashes in history faster than other Presidents who faced lesser economic challenges. Passing health care reform was historic in it’s own right whether you like it or not. He did all of these things and more while being personally attacked and obstructed FAR worse than any President in history. Everybody in the entire world knows that a lot of it is due to bigotry and racism. EVERYBODY.

            Reply
          18. mike December 13, 2014

            I see more trouble wearing big boy pants.
            So, deductibles were going up an average of 42% all those years before ACA. Right???
            What you keep trying to defend is a healthcare program that Obama said, PREMIUMS WOULD GO DOWN $2500 PER FAMILY, KEEP YOUR DOCTOR, KEEP YOUR HOSPITAL, etc.. All promises have turned out to be lies.

            So premiums have not risen by an average of 5% for 2015, Right??? Nor have deductibles on average of 42%, Right??? But Obama said they would no DOWN, that was the promise.
            As to 66%, country going in wrong direction, period!!! Who is running country? Obama!!! DUH!!! Obama signature program has a disapproval rate as high as 58%. economy and foreign policy has disapproval of 53% and 54%
            I know you have polls showing what the american like about Obama’s policies. I just reviewed exit poles from 2010-12-14
            On economy getting better dem/rep
            2010- dems 60 rep 40, 2012 dems 81-rep 19, 2014 dems 58 rep 42. Democrats dropped 23 pts. from 2012

            Economy getting worse. dem/rep
            2010. 35/65, 2012 19/81, 2014 31/69 Democrats believing econ. getting worse jumped up 11 pts from 2012. Doesn’t that say it is going in wrong direction?
            Keep trying to defend Obama. Most have given up which was evident at the number of no-shows at the mid-terms
            You also keep forgetting the Independents and millenniums that voted for Obama have walked away in great numbers. So don’t count your chickens to soon for 2016. PS: Clinton is a poor campaigner/candidate, give us Warren. LOL!!!!

            Still on that racist kick I see. Policies not color!!!

            Reply
          19. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            Still walking around with a load in your Pampers, eh?

            The PPACA isn’t even fully implemented. 2015 will be the first year that the individual mandate and employer mandates will be in full effect. Do you think that anything is going to happen overnight?

            People were losing their plans every day before the PPACA — why would you expect anything to be different now? That’s like going to the doctor and getting prescribed some antibiotics, then calling the doctor every 5 minutes and whining that your infection isn’t gone. It takes time, dolt.

            LOL — premiums are going to average a 5% increase in 2015, eh? Why that’s just horrible! Not. It’s still far below the average increase for many, many years. Where’s the fire?

            And stop lying about deductible increases. That rate that you cited is a 5-year rate — not an annual rate, and deductibles have been rising that way for many years now. Another FAILED attempt to blame Obama, because he’s black, of course.

            I guess you’ve forgotten what a REAL disapproval rate is on the economy. Try Bush’s rate that was up around the 80-90% disapproval range — there’s a real number for you. Like I said, exit polls during the 2014 midterms had a plurality of voters saying the economy was improving, which it clearly is. And those were older, whiter midterm voters.

            As for 2016, I agree that Warren should run either by herself or on the ticket with Clinton. Either way, there isn’t a Republican in sight that stands a chance at this point. And the more bigoted and despicable the GOP becomes, the harder they will get hit during Presidential elections. The results of the 2014 midterms can easily get wiped out during a Presidential election. And by the looks of the things they will. Republicans are making a bigger deal out of the midterms than they really are because the Presidency is out of reach.

            Who cares about Independents walking away from Obama? He’s not running again — ever — so why wouldn’t they? It’s going to be near impossible for a Republican to win in 2016 without getting a least some decent part of the Latino and black votes, and the anti-minority and anti-immigrant antics are most likely going to guarantee the same rate that Mitt ‘47%’ Romney go in 2012: 0% The young and women aren’t all that happy with the GOP lately either. Enjoy the fairly meaningless midterm results while you can — it’s likely to be all you get for some time.

            Reply
          20. mike December 13, 2014

            Fact: 2015,on average premiums up over 5% over 2014, deductibles on average up 42% under ACA yet Obama said premiums would go down.

            About 5 to 6 million lost their plans under ACA another fact.

            http://multibriefs.com/ViewLink.php?i=5331fa978dbfc

            OK just show me the exit poll that refutes my numbers.
            Bush’s numbers are irrelevant at this point, get over it.
            Millenniums, independents, and blue collar whites put him over the top, This election the blue collar whites voted for republicans. He has lost over half of the independents and Millenniums. Who says the next democratic candidate will garnish the original numbers.
            As to 2016 we will see and it will be interesting.
            Not sure you will get this one.

            Reply
          21. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            You must be joking — a document with no sources or authors whatever? Give me a break.

            Here are some numbers for you: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/10/employee-health-insurance_n_5787292.html

            You can see that deductibles have been increasing at a steady clip since before Obama was even a US Senator, and the rate has pretty much stayed in the 7-10% bracket the whole time. There have been no 40+% jumps.

            Premium increases, of course, are slowing down. That’s a good thing, and the PPACA has lowered the uninsured rate, which is exactly the goal. Claiming that people lost their insurance is a real load of BS. People have been losing their plans forever, and for just as long they have been moving into new plans. Nothing new there, either — it’s just normal churn.

            Here’s another link for you: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/upshot/in-context-health-premium-increases-dont-actually-look-like-increases.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

            The whole marketplace is changing, and the bigot-pits (red states) manage to cheat their citizens both out of Medicaid expansion AND the best rates, by obstructing what’s proven to work. What do you think is going to happen when all of the goobers in a bigot state start seeing that their neighbors are getting much better deals on health insurance AND assistance for those who can’t afford it? It won’t take long for the grumbling to start — you can count on it.

            Bush’s numbers are no more irrelevant than Obama’s numbers. Neither one is going to run for any additional office. And demographics aren’t on your side. The GOP establishment already knows this and there were a number of discussions after the 2012 Presidential year drubbing. It’s simple math — older, whiter voters just aren’t a big enough majority to win Presidential elections all by themselves, and they are getting closer to an absolute minority every year.

            Reply
          22. mike December 13, 2014

            It seems you didn’t read it or can’t comprehend, it gives the source, read it again. You give me one from Sept before the sign up period. So I will give you more to review that are after the sign up started.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/politics/cost-of-coverage-under-affordable-care-act-to-increase-in-2015.html

            http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2014/11/11/Obamacare-2015-Low-Premium-Increases-High-Deductibles

            http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-2015-low-premium-increases-110000415.html

            You conveniently forget that premiums would go down not up, that was Obama’s promise. Which turns out to be another lie.

            As to the rest of your post, it is more diarrhea of the brain not worth a response.

            Just stop the racist crap, people are tired of it, it sure didn’t work in the mid terms. Blacks didn’t come out to protect the president.

            Reply
          23. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            Take off the hood — it’s obviously too tight on your head.

            There. Now that you have some blood flow back, read your own racist statement: “Blacks didn’t come out to protect the President.”

            NOBODY came out to do anything with respect to Obama, you dope — period. He wasn’t on any ballot. But you completely lost sight of that simple fact, because your every breath is drawn for the sole purpose of saying something to attack Obama. Now you can explain that if you’d like, but I already understood it long ago — and so did all of the other posters here.

            Reply
          24. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            You know what? Your responses are becoming so asinine that I can almost hear the IQ points being sucked out of the room with every post. His policies were on the ballot thus he was on the ballot? Really?

            Let me ask you something: How did George Washington fare in the last election? After all, Washington’s policies covered the same ground as Obama: Budgets, immigration issues, the economy, defense — you get the idea. So old George must have been on the ballot too. What were the voters saying about George?

            If Obama was able to run for President a third time, he could probably win again. It’s obvious that he’s done far better with the economy than his predecessor, and the GOP clown car is full of misfits who are just champing at the bit to repeat Bush’s mistakes. For all of the endless carping about the PPACA the GOP has offered absolutely no plans of their own, and returning to a badly broken health care system is never going to be accepted by the American public.

            You tried very hard to lie your way out of this debate, however, it just didn’t work out for you. All of your numbers were debunked, which is apparently a common experience for you. I suggest that you try the novel (for you) approach of telling the truth for once. Perhaps it wont have the same zing of bigoted hate that your whoppers do, but at least you would have a reasonable chance at making a defensible argument.

            No matter how much you goobers spasm and twitch over Obama, he just sits there and continues to be black in complete defiance of your wishes. The economy continues to grow and the deficit continues to shrink. More people gain decent health insurance very day, and the families of immigrants gain just a little bit of hope. The stock market continues it’s stellar performance, the sun is shining, and the birds are all singing.

            I know this all is a source of stress for you, because it just makes it harder for you to belittle somebody and express your deep-seated hate when the man has actually accomplished a number of remarkable feats. It’s a mean old world, I guess — sorry ’bout your luck.

            Reply
          25. mike December 14, 2014

            It is Sunday morning, the sun is out but your head is still where the sun doesn’t shine.
            You have given me an early Christmas Present, a wonderful laugh, thank you!!!
            Why the laugh you ask? you gave me another ranting and delusional post.
            The End!!!

            Reply
          26. WhutHeSaid December 14, 2014

            You STILL haven’t answered the question.

            Why would you go to the polls to ‘attack’ a man who isn’t even on the ballot, and why would you assume that people with black skin would rush to ‘protect’ the target of your ‘attack’?

            You claim that you aren’t racist, but “the truth will out” (as the saying goes) — and your statement inadvertently told the truth.

            Reply
          27. mike December 14, 2014

            I see you are giving me another Christmas present, thanks.

            I guess you didn’t watch the videos, funny.

            He and his policies were on the ballot. He even said so.

            2009 Obama had a 90% Job approval ratings with blacks, now only 84%. LOL!!! All of 6 points.

            2009 Whites Job approval rating was at at 58% now down to 33%
            2009 Hispanics job approval was at 75% now down to 48%.

            So the group that gives him the highest approval rating over six years, didn’t show up at the polls. That’s a fact.

            Nothing racist about me, I am just giving you the real world. If these numbers don’t make you stop and think about race then you are brain dead.

            http://www.blackradionetwork.com/obama_black_approval_hits_new_low

            The End!!!

            Reply
          28. WhutHeSaid December 14, 2014

            Do you really think you can just sashay out here and drop one of your whoppers without being challenged? Oh no — that’s not going to happen.

            Here is a link for you: http://www.rttnews.com/2429966/obama-sees-jump-in-approval-among-hispanics-after-immigration-action.aspx

            Obama’s approval ratings jumped among Latinos immediately after he made the announcement on his immigration executive action. Obama has made this mistake a few times — attempting to tone down or time his actions to appease despicable haters who will oppose him anyway no matter what. So he really should have just ignored right-wing bigots all along, because they don’t represent America and will always oppose anything he does while he still has black skin. By trying to cooperate with despicable people Obama risks losing some support from everyone else.

            You are correct about the fact that a large part of his support didn’t show up at the midterms. But that’s perfectly understandable because Obama wasn’t running for office, so showing up wouldn’t really support Obama anyway. Claiming that his policies were up for a vote is just rhetoric no matter who says it.

            Your statement that the midterm voting was an “attack” on Obama and that people with black skin didn’t “protect” Obama is as racist as it is untrue. First, voting isn’t an “attack” — or at least it isn’t supposed to be. Second, to assume that people with black skin somehow failed some responsibility to “protect” Obama presupposes that people vote based on skin color. This is probably true for you, and that’s why you made such a statement in the first place. But most people don’t think that way. And finally, Obama wasn’t on the ballot nor were any of his policies. Anything to the contrary is political rhetoric and not fact.

            So you come out here and make racist statements, then you object when that racism is pointed out. Sounds like a personal problem to me.

            Reply
          29. mike December 14, 2014

            I would expect them to go up after immigration announcement but the topic was the mid-term and the lack of voting for Obama by his base, even after doing interviews on black radio stations. 2009 he had 81% so he is still 17 pts down from his high with Latinos.

            Why didn’t he make the announcement before the election??

            http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/us/politics/obama-said-to-delay-executive-action-on-immigration.html

            “rhetoric not matter who says it” he said you idiot.

            http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2014/10/axelrod-obama-ballot-line-a-mistake-196592.html

            So there have never been political attacks ever during an election by either party, Right???

            What I said that Obama was being attacked(politically) and that the black vote and his base did not come out and protect his policies which is the same as protecting his administration and his direction for the country(his policies as he said were on the ballot).
            The only problem with racism is you and that all who oppose his policies and direction he wishes the country to take, are racists.

            No, the real bigot is you.

            Reply
          30. WhutHeSaid December 14, 2014

            “I would expect them to go up after immigration announcement but the topic was the mid-term and the lack of voting for Obama by his base, even after doing interviews on black radio stations.” — MikeTheBigot

            Moron — there was no voting for Obama because he wasn’t on the ballot. How stupid can you get?

            The ‘policy’ comment was just rhetoric. Bigots and racists will beat a single sentence to death if they think it will help make Obama look bad. They mistakenly believe that disparaging Obama mitigates the fact that he is more intelligent and more successful than them. It causes them a great deal of pain because it disproves their belief that they are superior to anyone with black skin.

            Sorry — you can’t unsay what you said no matter how much you wish you could. Your comment about black people ‘protecting’ Obama was classic racism. This is why you have issues with people calling you a bigot — because you are. Forget about trying to turn it around on me. Calling somebody who just pointed out your racism or bigotry a bigot themselves just means that you know you’ve been busted.

            Reply
          31. mike December 14, 2014

            LOL!!!!

            Reply
          32. mike December 14, 2014

            Blacks give Obama an 85% job approval ratings but yet they had fewer voters voting than from 2012 even though he was on all the black radio shows.. Where were they!!! Their guy was being attacked politically and yet there were less voting even though they support him 85% of the time.
            Don’t forget Blacks support Blacks. What happened!!!

            Reply
          33. WhutHeSaid December 14, 2014

            You’ll need to remove your hood again to understand this:

            Ready? Obama wasn’t running for office in 2014. So despite your racist statement that “Blacks support Blacks”, supporting Obama was impossible because he wasn’t running.

            Reply
          34. mike December 14, 2014

            You really are a mental midget.
            When he said his policies were on 2014 mid-term ballot, THEY really weren’t his, Right?? Are not a reflection of his administration nor he is responsible for, Right??

            So when 92% of blacks vote for Obama and 96% of black women vote for Obama it has nothing to do with race, Right???

            What did Malcolm X call those blacks that vote democratic 80% of the time? CHUMPS!!!!

            Reply
          35. WhutHeSaid December 14, 2014

            What does any of this have to do with Malcolm X? You dig yourself a deeper bigot-hole with every post.

            It may be hard for people like you to understand, but most people who don’t have multiple offshore accounts or a garage with an elevator might feel uncomfortable enough with a candidate like Mitt Romney to vote for his opponent. Does this even seem possible to you? Just because you vote your skin color doesn’t mean that other people do the same thing.

            Reply
          36. mike December 14, 2014

            Still trying to wear big boy pants I see!!!
            Thanks for the wonderful chuckle.

            Reply
          37. mike December 13, 2014

            I see NM has blocked/delayed my response to your post so not sure you will see this one either.
            NM has blocked over 11 post this past month to you and others with the wording “pending”. I have contacted NM Decker and he refuses to take action to release them.
            So leftist, silent, censor those of opposite thought.

            Reply
          38. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            Just a tip: They installed some kind of profanity filter not long ago. Just make sure if you swear you use an alternate spelling (like a$$) or hyphenate the words and the filter will leave you alone.

            Reply
          39. mike December 13, 2014

            My profanity has been infrequent but I will watch it. If you want to read my post go to my silhouette and click on profile, mine is not block like some.

            Reply
          40. WhutHeSaid December 13, 2014

            I don’t block mine either. But I didn’t see any such post. Oh well, just post it again using alternate spelling if you want it to ‘stick’. Your posts don’t have to be over the top — it’s just an automated filter that picks up certain key words.

            Reply
          41. mike December 13, 2014

            It’s there, click on “more.”

            Reply
          42. mike December 11, 2014

            Dom, you cannot pick and choose what parts of the Constitution you wish to uphold. If “enhanced interrogation” is unconstitutional then killing an American citizen without charging with a crime, due process, is also unconstitutional.
            You can’t make up your own rules.

            As to that asinine remark about Bush and 9/11, what bull roar. All the planning was done under what administration?? That’s right, under Bill Clinton whose administration faced the bombing of the WTC, Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia and the embassies bombings in Africa. Yet, he did little to follow up on leads.
            Now what classified documents did Berger steal from the archives in about 2003 before appearing before the 9/11 commission?? We will never know, he admitted stealing and destroying them.

            I would do everything to protect my fellow citizens at the cost of a terrorists freedom, who by the way wants us dead, to get any and all info. WE are war and war is ugly and deadly.

            I find it interesting that 2 individuals who were involved in the so called terrible actions are high in the Obama Administration. Heads of CIA, and FBI. But just ignore that.

            Reply
          43. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            Yes, we cannot pick and choose which laws to abide by, but comparing a deliberate torture program designed to extract information from POWs, with the killing of a Yemeni terrorist, who became a naturalized U.S. citizen while in the USA, before returning to his homeland and engaging in anti-American activities is a bit of a stretch, even for the most loyal Republicans. The person you continue to highlight as evidence of wrongdoing was one of a number of Al Qaeda operatives killed by a drone strike in Yemen. He made no effort to hide his involvement in recruiting terrorists, calling for strikes against American facilities, and other examples of terrorist activities. He chose his destiny when he joined Al Qaeda. The same goes for all the Westerners that chose to join ISIS.
            What should be considered enough time for a President to understand the information passed on to him by his predecessor, and conveyed to the administration during the daily national security briefings that W declined to attend because he was too busy chopping wood in Crawford and reading primers to little kids in Florida? 9/11 took place when Republicans were in control of the White House and Congress, and there is nothing you can say to convince anyone to think otherwise.

            Reply
          44. mike December 11, 2014

            Surprise, surprise, I should have known that the guy that thinks Obama ignoring the Constitution on other matters, is perfectly OK when Obama spits on the Constitution when it come to killing Americans without due process.

            No, the administration cannot can’t pick and choose. Although this administration believes it can and continues to do whatever it wants, screw the constitution.
            Hina Shamsi, who directs ACLU National Security Project, said of these drone attacks “one of the most extreme and dangerous forms of authority that the executive branch can claim- the power to kill people based on vague and shifting legal standard, secret evidence and no judicial review even after the fact.”:
            She also said “Obama admin. is “fighting hard” to prevent a judicial review of the strikes that killed al-Awlaki and the other Americans, including the terrorist’s 16 year old son.
            No, no mater how you justify killing Americans it is still unlawful. Do as I say, not what I do fits you and Obama perfectly.
            Yes, Bush was in office 7 months, but that is the extent of it. To blame Bush is just another stupid statement made by you, Dom.

            Reply
          45. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            I almost replied with a “surprise, surprise” of my own when I read you quote the ACLU opposition to drone attacks against Al Qaeda targets, but your statement was so delightful I decided to refrain from sarcasm and join in your newly adopted pacifist tendencies.
            Yes, war is terrible, and using drone or missile attacks are also terrible. Now that we agree on that, should we assume that you oppose targeting Al Qaeda cells engaged in plans or the execution of attacks against Americans? The “Americans” killed by a drone attack were among a group of Al Qaeda terrorists. The so-called American was born in Yemen, became a naturalized citizen of the USA while in this country, and when he returned to his birthplace he joined Al Qaeda and became an active recruiter and planner of attacks against Americans in Yemen and neighboring countries. I am touched by your sense of humanity in standing up for the rights of terrorists, but I can’t say that I share your devotion to them. Becoming a naturalized citizen is a privilege, that can be lost when the recipient engages in activities designed to harm Americans, our interests, and our national security. If this innocent specimen of a human being wanted due process, he should have turned himself in at the nearest U.S. consulate or at the Embassy. He chose to join one of the most dangerous organizations in the world, the organization responsible for 9/11, and he paid dearly for that decision.
            There are no parallels between what happens in a war zone, and torturing prisoners of war. If you don’t understand the difference, that’s your problem – and the ACLU’s – not mine.

            Reply
          46. mike December 11, 2014

            Now, Now Obama specifically targeted and killed an American citizen who was never charged for a crime. That is the issue, nothing more nothing less.
            As to supposed Americans, killed unknowingly in drone attacks, good riddance.
            It’s the Constitution, Stupid.
            Wrong again, Dom. al-Awlaki was born to Yemini parents in 1971 while in the US, get it straight. Your argument just doesn’t work.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

            Oh, I see a big difference between your idea of what happened after 9/11 and in your so called war zone.

            What you can’t get is the fact, Obama is wrong and those on the judicial left say he is wrong.

            You believe unlawful killing is just fine but some mental/physical pain is just shameful. Such hogwash.

            If you were really honest, you would admit they are both wrong. But alas, that won’t happen.

            Reply
          47. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            Yes, President Obama has shown a greater focus on targeting Al Qaeda than President Bush did. Instead of letting people like Musharraf play hide and seek with us, while harboring the mastermind of 9/11, President Obama has launched attacks against Al Qaeda terrorists everywhere they hide, from Yemen to Somalia, from Pakistan to Afghanistan and Somalia. I also agree that he has targeted terrorists with little concern of their nationality. For him, a terrorist is a potential enemy of the USA, a person intent on doing harm to Americans, and he has shown, time and again, that he is not planning to spend 7 months chopping wood instead of doing whatever it takes to guarantee our national security.
            Well, at least you are not among those who continue to claim appeasement!
            I admit that I am troubled by all examples of violence, from overt warfare influenced by over reactions, and political and financial imperatives, to limited attacks against terrorist targets. I prefer dialogue, and peaceful solutions. However, I understand that in the world we live in peaceful coexistence is just a chimera, and an aggressive foreign policy is almost inevitable.
            Again, there is a difference between pre-emptive military action and torture of prisoners of war, purportedly to extract information that more often than not is meaningless.

            Reply
          48. mike December 11, 2014

            As to your first line, Baloney! He had more on his plate than Obama and Obama is reaping all that Bush put in motion to protect this county. As I have said before “to compare the time frame after 9/11 to the time frame now there is no comparison as to urgency and security”
            Don’t forget the drones were just starting under Bush and hadn’t reach the sophistication they are now. But, I know that is an inconvenient truth.
            Totally disagree with your last sentence and I bet most Constitutional Scholars agree with my position.
            Obama’s present CIA director has said their was information obtained. If you had read the Senate democrat report it said 34 had enhanced interrogation with only 20% giving no intelligence. But the other 80% did, read the report.

            Reply
          49. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            The inconvenient truth is that before drones, we used satellite and aerial surveillance, and missiles, to hit our targets.
            Yes, information was extracted that helped us learn more about the capabilities, tactics, locations, and the identities of the Iraqi and Afghan resistance. That information probably saved American lives, and helped us defeat the enemy.
            However, either the information obtained was inconclusive on the whereabouts of OBL, or W was too busy chopping wood and took no action.
            The part that you are trying to avoid, is the centerpiece of this scandal. That is, the morality of using torture, and the contrast between such practice and our purported values. If the best we can say to justify our actions is that terrorists do it, what does that say about us and who we are?

            Reply
          50. mike December 11, 2014

            And Clinton was distracted after screwing his intern for two years, lying about it and taking his eyes off the ball. 9/11 commission stated Clinton failed to put country on war footing after 2000 attack on Cole and bombings in Africa 1998.

            “What does that say about us” it says we did not lose more Americans on our soil, we found ways to fight them. Until you are willing to put the conditions of the country in context of that moment, the rest is moot.

            Again, keep in context the immediate aftermath of 9/11. We were in shock, scared, concerned, etc..What you want to forget is the Congressional Authorization for use of Military force(AUMF) “all necessary and appropriate”. Or the CIA (RDD) EIT authorization, which the senate democrat report does not present any evidence that would support the notion that the CIA program was carried out for years without the concurrence of the House or Senate intelligence committee,or that any of the members were shocked to learn of the program after the fact. In fact lets have real transparency and have all the CIA briefings to Congressional leaders released so Americans see who is telling the truth.
            One last time, we have gone from worried about having enough security, protection and being safe, to now, feeling we are safe again and now complaining/wondering, did we go too far?

            Reply
          51. Dominick Vila December 12, 2014

            Are you comparing a love affair, with deliberately neglecting to attend the daily national security briefings? President Clinton launched a missile attack against a target where OBL was believed to be at. OBL left that site minutes earlier. He alerted W of the probability of an imminent attack on U.S. soil before leaving office, and so did the CIA and the NSA. W ignored all the warnings and, admittedly, due to bad intelligence, he decided to spend his time in Crawford rather than alerting all national security, military, and law enforcement agencies of a potential threat against our country. Yes, you are right, he only had 7 months to do something that could have been done in less than an hour. Again, there are consequences to bad intelligence…
            You can tap dance all you want, the fact is that 9/11 happened when the GOP controlled the WH and Congress.

            Reply
          52. mike December 12, 2014

            “Deliberately neglecting” what a crock. I know you have irrefutable proof he never looked at the daily reports, Right? You were there, Right?? I know the 40%+ non briefing by Obama means nothing to you, Right??

            And you can ignore the findings of the 9/11 report that Clinton failed in preparing country.

            I never said Bush didn’t have control of govt. but that total blame does not rest with Bush alone.

            Enjoy the past!!!

            Reply
          53. Dominick Vila December 12, 2014

            President Clinton was not in office during the 7 months that preceded 9/11, George W. Bush was. If 7 months was not enough to prepare the country against a potential attack, conveyed to him by his predecessor, the CIA, and the NSA, he should not have run for office, and his baby brother should not have used pregnant chads and tactics to delay and, ultimately, prevent a recount. He should have remained in Crawford, chopping wood.
            If 7 months was not enough time for a Republican to alert our intelligence and security agencies, why was one day enough time for the GOP to declare war on President Obama’s agenda, before he even had a chance to learn his way to the Oval Office? Why does the GOP criticize President Obama’s stimulus package? Should we assume that the time span needed to develop a plan fluctuates dependent on who is in office?

            Reply
          54. mike December 12, 2014

            Dom, as I have said before keep living in the past. The attack was planned under Clinton.

            http://www.latimes.com/news/la-oe-dsouza18jan18-story.html

            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/6/fitton-how-911-warnings-were-ignored/

            http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422
            I know you can debunk these with real documented facts just not your opinion, Right??
            You are way off topic.

            For all Feinstein has accomplished in the senate this report will have negative impact on her place in history. Not to interview the people involved and to parse and pick the parts that fit their agenda will not make their argument. Already, the parts and statements they made are being proven wrong and actually showing when read in full give an opposite result.

            Keep the hate up and regurgitating the past that you think is relevant. It accomplishes nothing other than just being a partisan hack.

            Reply
          55. Dominick Vila December 12, 2014

            9/11 was probably conceived when OBL issued his Fatwa, and it was planned shortly thereafter, but it did not happen until 7 months after George W. Bush’s inauguration…and it is not necessary to wait 9 months or a year to put our security security agencies on alert.
            If Bush is not responsible for 9/11 because he did not have enough time to prepare and because the planning took place before his inauguration, why is President Obama responsible for the stimulus package considering that the Great Recession began in 2007 and he had to put together that stimuli to prevent the U.S. economy from collapse during his first year in office?

            Reply
          56. mike December 12, 2014

            Keep beating that dead horse, Dom. With all the other problems Obama won’t address and you want to keep the hate going. So Sad!!!
            How’s that ISIS thing going for you? You know when Obama called them JV and had to be pushed and pulled to finally address their terror. And you want to beat on Bush. LOL!!!

            Off topic again, Dom.

            Reply
          57. Dominick Vila December 12, 2014

            It is not off topic. The torture issue that is being debated was the direct consequence of a 9/11 overreaction. Instead of cool heads and a strong – lawful – response, we engaged in actions unbecoming of a great nation.
            I don’t like ISIS any more than anyone else. If Saddam Hussein had not been deposed and executed, and the Baathists had not been removed from office and replaced with Shias, there would be no ISIS today. The overwhelming majority of the ISIS leadership are members of the old Baathist party, and they are back with a vengeance. What we are seeing is the direct result of a myopic or immature response to the worst foreign terrorist attack on U.S. soil in history.

            Reply
          58. mike December 12, 2014

            You were off topic, you have been trying to blame Bush for 9/11 these last few posts. You have been trying to accuse him of dereliction of duty, which is all crap.
            Nothing about torture which it was by all definition not used by the Bush CIA. Go read US Code 18 USC 2340. It was not torture.
            Also, detainees and terrorist do not fall under Geneva Convention, they were never nation-state actors, POW(nation-state actors) fall under GC. Also, written in the authorization(AUMF) said American citizens involved could not be prosecuted.
            What you won’t acknowledge is the Obama withdrawal of troops in Iraq helped create ISIS in Iraq.

            The majority report is flawed and inaccurate. Feinstein took her last shot before she loses her Chair.

            Reply
          59. Dominick Vila December 12, 2014

            I don’t blame Bush, Clinton, or anyone else for 9/11, if nothing else because we did not know when, where, or how we were going to be attacked. The only thing we aware of was the Fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden promising to punish Americans, in our homeland, in retaliation for U.S. military bases near the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina, and because of our unconditional support to Israel. My point is simple, the GOP was in control of the WH and Congress when 9/11 occurred, and that is a fact. I would feel better if W had placed our intelligence and security agencies on high alert, but even if he had done that, it is unlikely such measure would have prevented what happened. The use of torture, however, is a completely different animal. The following is for your perusal and enjoyment:

            United Nations Convention Against Torture – 1984

            “Ban on torture and cruel and degrading treatment

            Article 2 of the convention prohibits torture, and requires
            parties to take effective measures to prevent it in any territory under
            its jurisdiction. This prohibition is absolute and non-derogable. “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever”[6] may be invoked to justify torture, including war, threat of war, internal political instability, public emergency, terrorist acts, violent crime, or any form of armed conflict.[7] Torture cannot be justified as a means to protect public safety or prevent emergencies.[7] Neither can it be justified by orders from superior officers or public officials.[8]
            The prohibition on torture applies to all territories under a party’s
            effective jurisdiction, and protects all people under its effective
            control, regardless of citizenship or how that control is exercised.[7] Since the convention’s entry into force, this absolute prohibition has become accepted as a principle of customary international law.[7]”

            Reply
          60. mike December 13, 2014

            Dom, I responded to you but NM has thrown it into PENDING so I doubt if you will ever see it.
            At present there are 12 post in Pending and even after calling and emailing Henry Decker they have not release them.
            If you want to see it, go to my box with head and click on it and go to profile.
            I am not sure you will see this,

            Reply
          61. Dominick Vila December 13, 2014

            Thanks. I believe we have debated this issue to the point where there is no doubt as to where we stand.

            Reply
          62. mike December 13, 2014

            Yes, we probably have!!!
            What bothers me is the fact that so many of my responses over the years(this is far from the first time)are delayed(up to 2 days) before showing up on thread or never posted. 1/3 have been to you, the rest to Groom, Jhall, sand_cat and a few others.
            Decker just blows me off and won’t take my calls or respond to my emails, or have someone contact me. At one time I had a contact who would contact person overseeing site and fix the problem.
            NM is basically censoring my opposing positions/thoughts.
            I hope you read my last response to you. If not, your loss!! I don’t block my profile like many do on this left wing site.

            Reply
          63. mike December 13, 2014

            I see my response to this response an hour ago is now in limbo.

            Reply
          64. mike December 14, 2014

            What the heck are you talking about? You Blamed Bush for 9/11, chopping wood in Crawford.
            So what if the GOP was in charge at that time.
            OBL Fatwa was in 1996/1998, where was Clinton and his Admin. during those 4 years???

            Go read the definition of torture and then read the US Code and the approval of EIT’s. GC defines torture as “severe mental/physical pain, resulting injury to permanent injury.” The EIT’s used by US does not fit that description.

            Last and most important.
            The US was blinded sided on 9/11, it was a Pearl Harbor-esque emergency moment and what pursued was necessary.
            No matter how you want to have your PC moment and lack of context of that time period one thing you can’t have is your form of self-righteousness as how we conducted ourselves.

            WE WATCHED INNOCENT AMERICANS GIVEN A CHOICE OF BEING BURNED ALIVE OR JUMPING TO THEIR DEATHS. WE DID NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER SUCH ATTACK WHERE GOOD AMERICANS DIED AT THE HANDS OF TERRORIST. Screw THE TERRORIST!!!

            And that is all that needs to be said as to the why EID’s were used.
            BURNED ALIVE OR JUMP TO YOUR DEATH, WHAT A GRISLY CHOICE!!!!

            Reply
          65. Dominick Vila December 14, 2014

            I blame Bush for not being more proactive, and interested in the information that was conveyed to him by President Clinton, and by our intelligence agencies during the daily national security briefings that he neglected to attend. I don’t blame him for being unable to stop what happened, since nobody knew where, when, or how the anticipated terrorist attack was going to take place.
            Osama bin Laden issued his Fatwa on 23 February 1998. President Clinton and his administration did react to it, tried to find his whereabouts, and went as far as authorizing a missile attack against an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan where OBL was supposed to be. Unfortunately, OBL left minutes before the missile struck that site.
            If you believe that water boarding, sleep deprivation, standing naked in weird positions, and all the other methods employed by the CIA to extract meaningless information does not constitute mental and physical abuse, you may want to consider as job as an ISIS adviser.
            We all remember what happened on 9/11, and I am willing to bet that almost all of us were overwhelmed by emotions and a desire for retaliation, but that does not mean we should emulate terrorists to exact justice on our enemies. Acting the way people did when they chased witches, the way the Spanish Inquisitors did, the way the KGB did at the Gulag, and the way terrorist organizations do, only contribute to justified loss of credibility and the erosion of human values. I have no problem with chasing terrorists to the end of the world, especially does that harmed us, I have a problem with utilizing torture.

            Reply
          66. mike December 14, 2014

            First Fatwa was in August1996.
            “Meaningless vs. Valuable intelligence” will be debated forever. I will go with Brennen and others.
            torture-severe pain or suffering, physical or mental…….
            You will not put into context those tragic days when Americans were scared, petrified, wondering when the next strike would happen and if a nuclear weapon could be used. We were upset and terrified.
            Thumbnail

            Reply
          67. Dominick Vila December 15, 2014

            Actually, the first recorded Fatwah against Westerners was issued in the Middle Ages.
            You are correct about most Americans being terrified in the aftermath of 9/11. Unfortunately, the same was true for our leaders, who instead of being calm in the face of chaos, and instead of being objective, made emotional decisions that led into the geo-political and moral quagmire we are in today.

            Reply
          68. mike December 15, 2014

            Who cares when the first recorded Fatwa happened, you were only half correct. FYI, the 1996 was signed by OBL only, 1998 fatwa included 4 others.
            People of good will can disagree with the rest of your post as to administration state of mind.

            Reply
          69. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            You may be “touched” by “Mike”‘s standing up for the rights of terrorists, but I think that he’s a traitor and you’re a fool.

            Further, because Al Quaida is a terrorist oerganization and responsible for the collective and individual murder of thousands, I don’t think that they are entitled to any “rights.” We are effectively at war with Al Quaida and anything that we do to eliminate them is justified. I believe that the vast majority of Muslims support all of the Muslim terrorist groups. Therefore, I have no sympathy for those Muslims who were transported to Guantanamo Bay and subjected to extreme interrogation methods.

            I also believe that outing the operatives who staffed the Guantanamo Bay interrogation facility is an act of treason. It’s as bad as the outing of Valerie Plame.

            I would never work for a government agency in a sensitive area because ultimately the politicians will betray you to satisfy their political aims and agendas. Obama’s release of this document may well spell the end of the Democratic Party in the next election.

            Reply
          70. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            Looks like you did not understand what I told Mike, or I didn’t explain myself clearly enough. My point was to establish a boundary between President Obama’s aggressive policies towards terrorist groups, such as Al Qaeda, and the targeting of AQ cells, which Mike seemed to lament; and the use of torture. The latter is unconstitutional, against our laws, against our values and traditions, and it is something that is going to make it very difficult for us to claim global leadership and preach freedom and democracy from now on.
            To the best of my knowledge, the only person that has been mentioned is the CIA director who in addition to being responsible for his agency, committed perjury when he told Congress, President Bush, and the American people that torture was not being applied.

            Reply
  2. Joe T December 10, 2014

    Democrats aiding and abetting the enemy. NO INTEL should ever be released….PERIOD>

    Dianne Feinstein presents findings from the CIA torture report released on 9 December, 2014. The documents show that the CIA’s post-9/11 embrace of torture was brutal and ineffective – and the agency repeatedly lied about its usefulness

    Reply
    1. littlewitch December 10, 2014

      This is not “intel” this is evidence of a persistent and pervasive evidence of crimes committed by our government if you want to have the truth suppressed you might be happier living in Saudi Arabia, it is the law there.

      Reply
      1. Joe T December 10, 2014

        That’s your opinion………….mine is different,
        ever been to WAR, ever been in a fight, ever been in a minatory situation, ever had TOP SECRET clearance,
        ever seen a person die, ever been beheaded? Savvy!

        Reply
        1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

          What’s a ‘minatory situation’? Is that another one of those silly tea-bagger euphemisms? It must be pretty vile, so I’m glad you elected not to describe it.

          Reply
          1. Joe T December 10, 2014

            Take the time, become a student of erudition, look it up.
            best regards…

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            That’s a new one on me — congratulations. Perhaps home-schooling in the trailer park isn’t all bad. Now if you would just learn to wash with soap and walk upright, why you’d be almost presentable in no time.

            Reply
          3. Joe T December 11, 2014

            Stop embarrassing yourself with inane rhetorical palaver….your emotion I.Q. is showing with derogatory comments on the net. Debate is with logic, emotion is argumentative. Your wasting valuable time, mine.
            best regards.

            Reply
          4. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            What on Earth ever gave you the silly idea that you time was valuable, Opie?

            Reply
          5. Joe T December 15, 2014

            WhutHeSaid………….”Come on man”………..how can I assist you in your thought processes….THINK and broaden your scope of imagination….here’s one to illuminate your thinking…hopefully…if 2 difficult I’ll give you another one or so….

            Describe the quantum theory of invisibility in 3 words and do not try to look it up on internet or understand same…..you probably are not cognizant of a basic answer…..and if you think education is expensive, try ignorance (being uninformed)
            knowledge is power.

            best regards, Joe T

            Reply
          6. WhutHeSaid December 15, 2014

            I can see that you’re trying real hard to prove something, Opie. I just don’t think that you even know what it is. Perhaps you just aren’t trying hard enough.

            Reply
          7. Joe T December 15, 2014

            Oh, I know………….sad you don’t…………best regards……….finito.es un ciao…………

            Reply
          8. WhutHeSaid December 15, 2014

            OK, Opie — if you say so. Are you trying to practice your Italian or Spanish? Oh well, I suppose it doesn’t really matter that much.

            Reply
          9. Joe T December 16, 2014

            You been watching 2 many Andy Griffith reruns.

            OK…last try 4 u, 2 guys (one black guy and one white gut) on a high cliff, one jumps and dies, who jumped first?

            Reply
          10. WhutHeSaid December 16, 2014

            Nobody jumped first, Opie. Is this supposed to illustrate how clever you are? You need to put more effort into it.

            Reply
          11. Joe T December 16, 2014

            The one who died jumped first……..wow

            Reply
        2. littlewitch December 11, 2014

          Obviously you have been beheaded. And your point is?

          Reply
          1. Joe T December 11, 2014

            2 persons high on a cliff, one jumps and kills their self, which one jumped first?

            Reply
          2. littlewitch December 11, 2014

            who cares

            Reply
          3. Joe T December 11, 2014

            Xactly

            Reply
  3. johninPCFL December 10, 2014

    The president should issue pardons to GWB, Cheney, Rice, and others explicitly outlining the crimes, as Gerald Ford did for Nixon. They’ll never be prosecuted anyway, other than at the Hague (where cases have already been brought), and at least the crimes would be on the record.

    Reply
    1. janis mcdonald December 10, 2014

      I agree 100%!

      Reply
    2. FT66 December 10, 2014

      Why should he pardon them? They do not admit they comitted a crime. Do you mean the President should beg them to pardon them? It doesn’t make any sense at all!

      Reply
      1. silas1898 December 10, 2014

        They would totally flip out! How dare Obama do this! We’re innocent!! bla bla bla.

        Karl Rove would be impressed.

        Reply
  4. Paul Bass December 10, 2014

    Americans should not torture our prisoners, we should be better than that. We should set the example of moral behavior to the world, NOT be the example of evil to the world.

    Reply
  5. FT66 December 10, 2014

    It is so sad to watch news outside US after the torture report was made public yesterday. Hard to watch videos which are being put out of people seen naked just only covering their private parts at Gitmo and dragged around. It is hard also to swallow a report indicating people were fed from a different part of the body, differently meant for that purpose. People I have talked with are very, very, very angry and they all think Americans are not human beings. I have tried to explain to them, that they were not aware what was done in their name. One said, we have heard former VP Chenney saying if allowed will do the same thing again. People don’t understand this narrative at all. He will do it again? They ask: Wasn’t against the Geneva Conventions of which US counter-sign it as well? How come those who thought they were in power like Dick Chenney, went against it? Was he not sworn in to take his position he held under the law?? They all want Chenney to appear in the Hague. They say if a black man lost his life by selling cigarettes against the low. How come the other person can be left freely without answering his wrong doing of which affected many people directly and was totally illegal???

    Reply
    1. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

      I watch foreign TV almost every day, and I agree with everything you said. Fortunately for us, I have also heard foreign media commentators praising our courage and coming clean, after years of denying what everybody knew was true. Very few countries have as much confidence in their values and history as we do, and have the courage to admit we did something very wrong. I expect those who are horrified by what happened a few years ago, to understand that most Americans are not criminals, that most of us are as appalled as they are by what happened, and that it is highly unlikely that the present, or any future U.S. administrations will react with the immaturity and criminality used by the Bush administration at a time when cool heads and objectivity were needed.

      Reply
    2. sleepvark December 10, 2014

      We find ourselves in somewhat the same situation as the innocent German citizens, especially those in the vicinity of Dachau, at the close of hostilities at the end of WWII. Some try to claim ignorance, others arrogantly deny the evil of the actions they are accused of, many others defend the evil done in their name based on their craven fear of terrorism, and that such fear should be felt and understood by all.
      Those are all weak, pusillanimous and cowardly positions, unworthy of a once great people. It will take decades of honorable hard work to get our collective dignity back.

      Reply
      1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

        And that’s assuming that we are able to slap down all of the despicable racists immediately and get on with the business of evolution. I’m slapping down as many as I can — it can be very tiring but it’s God’s work, so I feel it’s my duty. I promise I only enjoy the squealing a little.

        Reply
    3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

      I guess it is similar to watching young boys beheaded because they would not deny Jesus. Why would someone cut off ones head over the yard man?

      Reply
      1. FT66 December 12, 2014

        Do you think chopping someone head off, or torturing them until they die, or shooting them don’t produce in the end the same result??? They all end up losing their lives in a different way and never ever come back.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Wadda mean? Jesus came back. Conversational clarity is not your strong point.

          Reply
  6. James Bowen December 10, 2014

    This is one of the most despicable things that we have done in my lifetime.

    Reply
    1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

      For once I am in complete agreement with you.

      Reply
    2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

      You must be very young.

      Reply
      1. James Bowen December 12, 2014

        I think we’d have to go back to the internment of Americans of Japanese desecent in concentration camps to find something this despicable in official government policy.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          I think the internment of Japanese citizens was despicable. But that is what war does. Just wait until the next war and there will be a major war. The liberals will become easy moving targets. They are all anti gun.

          Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Lets go back to the Indians and how they were mistreated after butchering thousands of white and black people. Humans have been mistreating each other since Cain and Able, if you believe those fairy tales. Humans are savage no matter what kind of face they put on. They also try to put the blame on any body but themselves . Survival is all that counts on a personal level. I did not make the rules mother nature did. God is the number one excuse for what ever depravity humans do.

          Reply
          1. James Bowen December 13, 2014

            I agree with you. It doesn’t mean I like it though. Americans are people just like everyone else, but we do have a pretty good record compared to other nations when it comes to respecting individual dignity (i.e. not torturing people). It is even built into our legal system in the sense that criminal cases are dismissed if suspects are tortured or abused as a deterrent to the authorities from engaging in such behavior. That is why the events detailed in this report is so despicable and disappointing.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 13, 2014

            Water boarding is not considered torture. It causes no physical harm. It is emotional harm. It falls under the category of scaring someone. The authorities are regularly frightening people with threats of long jail terms if they don’t plea bargain or confess. I would rather be water boarded than spend life without parole in prison. This is not my opinion, it was ruled on by some government entity. Most of the people on this site have no understanding of what barbarians a the gate means in fact they don’t seem to have much understanding of anything. We are at war and our lifestyle and freedom is in jeopardy. The moral high ground is chitter chatter engaged in by people sitting comfortably at home with a glass of wine. When a terrorist bomb shred’s your wife and incinerates your children the moral high ground turns into a ocean of tears. Have a fear free holiday.

            Reply
          3. James Bowen December 14, 2014

            I am a Naval officer who has deployed to the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan, so please don’t lecture me about barbarians at the gate. If these people who are always screaming about terrorism were really serious about preventing it, they would crack down on illegal immigration and visa fraud. However, they are often the first to say we should give amnesty to illegal aliens and greatly liberalize our already permissive immigration policies.

            Water boarding is psychological, if not physical, torture. The government exists to serve and protect the people. How well they do that and how committed to they are to that is debatable, but the American people obviously believe this government serves their interest to the degree that they obey the law and pay taxes and are not rebelling against it. Torture undermines public trust in the authorities and our government institutions and threatens to make people wonder if the government is protecting us from the enemy or if the government is the enemy.

            Reply
  7. littlewitch December 10, 2014

    I was appalled in the early days of President Obama’s presidency when he did not use his authority to conduct inquiries and issue charges against all those who violated American and International anti torture laws.
    We obviously have a small class of people including the police that are above the law, now. Not much difference between the imperial prosecutor in Ferguson and the President of the USA.

    This first act of weakness by President Obama was a bad beginning. I know Hillary Clinton would never prosecuted this either. I had hopes for President Obama but he broke my heart in the early months of his presidency and while I supported him I knew he was just another Politician. This is why Americans cannot see much difference between Dems and Repubs, because in the clinches there is not much difference.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

      Obama is a fake, he is a community disorganizer . He has pulled a burlap bag over your head and is laughing all the way to the bank.

      Reply
      1. littlewitch December 12, 2014

        poor you

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          What are you talking about? Please explain.

          Reply
  8. howa4x December 10, 2014

    Cheney still clings to the myth that torture worked, as other experts including the FBI raised serious doubts about it’s effectiveness from the start. Cheney has distain for laws and proved it by ignoring a conflict of interest by hiring his former company Halliburton with a no bid 6 billion contract for IRAQ, lying about WMs there and outing a CIA agent. He should have been indicted

    Reply
    1. FT66 December 10, 2014

      You are quite right. He should be indicted. If the current admin is not ready to see him indicted, well and good it is their choice. But, they have to remember come 2015 when crazy people in power will come to town, the present admin won’t survive their rogue actions of what they think they did in the past, and what it is not in the taste of GOP!

      Reply
    2. tranz2deep December 10, 2014

      It *did* work by his standards–it made him feel big.

      Reply
      1. plc97477 December 10, 2014

        Maybe he is sadistic also.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Being around liberal lefties can make a person sadistic.

          Reply
  9. TZToronto December 10, 2014

    President Obama has an opportunity, given the revelations of the report, to hand the entire investigation over to the Attorney General (Holder or his successor) by saying he was not aware of the extent of the torture program authorized at high levels within the Bush administration. No one has yet been pardoned, and no one should be.
    He should also use his executive authority to close Guantanamo, transfer any prisoners there to high-security mainland prisons, officially charge them, give them access to legal representation, and trial, if warranted. Of course, many charges will be withdrawn because there’s no evidence aganist many of these detainees.
    He’s a lame duck, but that doesn’t mean he can’t use his executive powers to make things right. It would help to lift the image of the USA around the world.

    Reply
    1. plc97477 December 10, 2014

      He will of course have to do while fighting uphill the whole way against both the house and senate.

      Reply
      1. TZToronto December 10, 2014

        The Attorney General and Justice Department are part of the Executive Branch and don’t need Congressional approval to pursue this.

        Reply
    2. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

      I expect him to pardon George W. Bush, which in a way would constitute an indictment. Hopefully he will not pardon Cheney, whose statements in those dark days leave very little doubt about his involvement in what was going on. The only high level officials that may be prosecuted are the CIA Director, who in addition to his direct involvement, lied to Congress and, apparently, to President Bush. Perjury, on an issue of this magnitude cannot go unpunished. As for the underlings that carried out the torture and participated in renditions and other unlawful acts, their defense is likely to be that they followed orders, which leads everything back to the CIA Director and, possibly, Dick Cheney.

      Reply
  10. peteserb December 10, 2014

    We could send all the liberals to the Arabs and greatly improve this nation. It’s hard to believe that after the Hangings, Beheadings, Kidnapping, that the idiots of this nation would condemn somebody who is trying to protect them.

    Reply
    1. browninghipower December 10, 2014

      Blow me

      Reply
    2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

      That’s because a$$holes don’t understand what the rule of law is all about. What we really need is to protect ourselves from idiots like YOU — and we will, I promise.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        I saved your life today. I killed a sh!t eating dog Or maybe I saved the dog from a poisonous death.

        Reply
        1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

          I understand your pain. It’s just the pain of being a racist, and it will pass when you do. But in the meantime, I’ll enjoy the squeals of outrage as your dark little world gets smaller by the minute.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Dark world? Isn’t that being racist?

            Reply
        2. sleepvark December 10, 2014

          hicusdickhead, you should be afraid get near such a dog if you have any sense of self preservation. Packs of such hounds must pursue you every time you go outside of your double wide.

          Reply
    3. Mortalc01l December 10, 2014

      You are obviously a sociopath and a sick individual; how on Earth can you sit there and condone these acts??

      If we Americans pretend to be of higher moral standing than those who attack us, then don’t we have to be held to at least SOME kind of code of ethics? Do we not have the character and strength as a nation to be better? What makes us think that we can ignore the Geneva convention.. hell, forget the Geneva convention, what about common decency?

      I bet you tortured animals as a kid, am I right?

      Reply
      1. jointerjohn December 10, 2014

        You just attempted to discuss “higher moral standing” with a right-winger. You may as well attempt to teach algebra to a dog as try to appeal to an American Tea-party bonehead with concepts like morality, mercy, decency, etc.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

          When your friends or family are incinerated b ya terrorist bomb, then we can discuss moral high ground

          Reply
          1. sleepvark December 10, 2014

            hicusdickhead, so much fear and trembling in your every word. The sky must be falling all about you, and your yellow stained panties are in such a twist. Quick, go hide under a nice rock with the other vermin.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Why are you always so nonsensical? I must be getting to you.

            Reply
      2. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        If that’s all you can come up with , STFU.

        Reply
        1. Mortalc01l December 10, 2014

          Stunning comeback, full of exactly what we have come to expect from a Republican and that is to say ZERO.. You’re a psychopath and a scumbag, you weasel dicked goat-fucker.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            OMG you are sooooo clever. Your terminology is award winning. I am not a Republican. I have never voted Republican . Try and get things sorted out.

            Reply
    4. ps0rjl December 10, 2014

      I am a liberal and quite proud of it. Of course I am also a Vietnam veteran and a marine. Many liberals like me have fought and some have died protecting a*sholes like you. Of course you probably idolize tough guys like Cheney who when he was young did his best to not serve his country or GWB who to avoid serving in Vietnam joined the Texas Air National Guard and then didn’t show up for meetings or training for 14 months.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        There are no republicans or democrats when the mortar rounds are dropping. Their classification becomes Americans fighting for their life.

        Reply
        1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

          Perhaps, but a$$holes like you will always stand out regardless as, well, a$$holes.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

            I am not an a$$hole. I am a butthole. Try to get things straight. If you can’t get things straight, try some Viagra.

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            Well, it’s a subtle distinktion to be sure. Nah, I think a$$hole fits you better.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            How about frayed pucker string? You are so pedestrian.

            Reply
          4. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            You just stay away from peoples’ puckers. You’ve already done enough to poor Fido — shame on you.

            Reply
    5. The lucky one December 10, 2014

      Apart from the immorality of the torture practiced under Bush-Cheney it simply does not work. If they were trying to protect us they wouldn’t have invaded Iraq based on propaganda.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        OMG the immorality. Reading your harebrained comments could be considered torture.

        Reply
        1. The lucky one December 10, 2014

          You are obviously incapable of sustaining your attention past the first point so I’ll simplify for you torture simply does not provide useful info..

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

            Apparently your new to the torture game. Give me one of your private parts and we will see how quick you will rat out your mothers dope stash.

            Reply
          2. The lucky one December 11, 2014

            Sure you can make most people talk but the problem is they will say anything to stop the torture and will make up anything that will work. Provide one instance where torture has produced useful info not obtainable otherwise. You seem to have an inordinate attraction to others private parts. What happened, your mom cut you off the breast when you started biting?

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I can’t provide you with what you want as I have never attended a torture session. Wait, yes I have. Reading liberal posts could be considered worse than water boarding.

            Reply
          4. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            That’s ok, those who have attended them can’t provide the info either and you know damn well if they had instances where info gathered from torture was useful they’d be broadcasting it everywhere. I hope someday you get to learn the difference between water boarding and reading ideas you don’t agree with but then again with a mind as small as yours it may indeed be worse.

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            In England about the 15 to17 hundreds. Certain prisoners who were to be executed by beheading was given a choice. Off with the head or a no salt diet for 30 days and then freedom. They all after 15 to 25 days asked to be executed. I would say that was successful torture .Real torture is usually done for pleasure with the slow death of the prisoner being the objective. Your posts are enough torture to get me to confess to being a left winged liberal. You need to work on your sense of humor and your ridged thought patterns. Cut the name calling it really lowers your credibility.

            Reply
          6. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            That’s funny you lecturing someone on “name calling” and “credibility”. On the subject of credibility, what comic book did you get that story out of?

            Reply
          7. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I see history is not your strong point. Your ignorance has just come into full blossom. Where did I use school yard name calling?

            Reply
          8. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            You don’t see referring to someone’s mother having a dope stash is childish name calling. As Bugs Bunny would say “What a moroon.”

            You allude to some alleged event that happened sometime over the space of 200 years and you think that makes you a historian.

            Reply
          9. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I think moron is name calling. So you like to quote bugs bunny. It figures. I guess you must have researched the no salt thing. Good for you.

            Reply
          10. The lucky one December 13, 2014

            Yes it is name calling just as referring to someone’s mother as a doper is as well. Just because a total no salt diet is deadly doesn’t mean the event you allude to ever happened. Even if it did it has no relevance to the discussion.
            At least I can name my source. You toss out statements of what supposedly happened with no idea where the info came from. Anyway in a discussion with you I naturally think of cartoon characters.

            Reply
        2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

          Calm down — you don’t have to be an a$$hole every day of your life, you know. Why don’t you take a break and let the pooch post for a change? At least there is SOME spark of intelligence in his eyes, whereas you have the dull look that is the inevitable result of too many sailor dives into the shallow end of the gene pool.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

            That is why I hide behind him. He protects me from sh!t eating liberals. Okay I gave you and opening, run with it. Make sure you have your helmet on.

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            Actually it appears to me that he is the one that needs protecting. He looks ready to bolt at the first opportunity, and given your demeanor I’d say it would be a smart move.

            I’m not one of you tea-baggers, so I don’t really need a helmet. For you it seems an advisable move that went ignored for far too long. I’m not sure what you sissies are ever going to do to survive if us real people quit protecting you, so ponder that for a while as the balls are bouncing on your chin.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I really don’t think a helmet would do you any good. There is really nothing to protect.

            Reply
    6. sleepvark December 10, 2014

      peteserb, you yellow little coward. Torturers aren’t out to protect anybody. They get no actionable intel. No matter how much you mewl and cry for protection you don’t deserve, torture is never justifiable. To approve of torture is to approve of it being used on yourself and your loved ones sometime very soon. Torture is an omnivorous monster, feeding gluttonously on all and sundry. That is what should be feared.
      We hanged something like 900 Japanese prison personnel for torturing our unfortunate POW’s after WWII. That precedence strongly suggests that torture is a capital offense. It would only be fair for us to punish modern torturers to the same extent.
      In the case of bush II, cheney and rummy, it’s already an open and shut case. No need for a trial even, since they have all publicly and gleefully admitted to the crimes.
      I’ll gladly pull the lever or hold the rope.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

        Blah, blah. You would turn against Jesus over a paper cut.

        Reply
        1. sleepvark December 10, 2014

          No, my Latino friends have nothing to do with this. Jesus is a very good neighbor, but he is a little nervous whenever one mentions the INS and deportation.
          But hicusdicus old girl, how is your husband’s KKK membership application coming along? Rumor has it that those guys are very proficient at torturing and otherwise abusing those who disagree with their fascistic worldview. Your implicit agreement with them and their methods says quite a bit about you.

          Reply
          1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            KKK- Democratic terrorist group…look it up. You mean all 2-5000 of them nationwide…Not too many to worry about…. LOL

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            We know where all of the KKK refugees are hiding these days, now don’t we Josephine? Shame on you for thinking you fooled anyone!

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            What in the hell are you talking about? do you even know.?

            Reply
          4. sleepvark December 10, 2014

            schmolina, your tampon is leaking all over your keyboard. Again.
            When you can get over your menstrual cramps, learn a little history, if your poor little pea brain can grow a second brain cell so you can have at least one synaps.
            The dixiecrats and the KKK migrated en mass to the republican party back in Nixon’s day. The southern strategy and all that sort of stuff.
            Your ignorance of our history is not surprising, given that your citizenship is so dubious.
            The KKK is a right wing conservative, very right wing conservative thing now. You and your ilk own it. A source of pride for you, I’m sure.

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Do leaking tampons wet you appetite? The KKK are just a bunch of ignorant dues collectors. You really don’t seem to know what you are talking about.

            Reply
          6. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Latino friends? Eating at taco bell does not mean you have Latino friends.

            Reply
      2. joe schmo December 10, 2014

        Yah, and those same Japanese, who nowadays are our allies, (funny how things change in the blink of an eye) put matches under the fingernails of American POW’s and set them on fire as a form of torture.

        On your own citizenry you would ‘pull the lever and hold the rope.’ We really do need to ship all of you to the Middle East. You are no longer Americans.

        Reply
        1. sleepvark December 11, 2014

          joe schucko, you’ve never been a real American ever.
          I’d gladly pull the lever and/or hold the rope on you too.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Well the real you has finally climbed up out of the toilet of hypocritical droppings. Welcome to the real world.

            Reply
    7. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      Amen bro. Ungrateful twits Whose greatest peril has been to run out of toilet paper in the bus station bathroom.

      Reply
  11. Pamela Thompson December 10, 2014

    Chaney is the first person that should come up on charges for this torture. He still thinks this is OK and sing that song on the Fox talk show.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      I also think it is fine right along with all the people who died on 911 and Benghazi and the Boston marathon and all the unnamed people who lost their lives to appease Allah.

      Reply
      1. Pamela Thompson December 10, 2014

        You are trying to compare what they do and what we do as a nation. The GOP stands up their preaching their morality but do not want to live by what they preach. Certainly no one is fine to die in any situation from military or police abuse but we as a nation allegedly stand on a code that now the GOP does not want to live by.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

          Its all the GOP’s fault. When a human dies the planet applauds. One less polluter. What do you know about anything? I am sure if you broke a finger nail you would consider it some kind of torture. Maybe some day you can experience a terrorist act first hand.

          Reply
          1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            Sorry, the world doesn’t like crime. When one of you racists publicly applauds crime, no matter the excuse, it makes me think about the prison cell that you could call home if you get out of hand — so have a care.

            Reply
          2. Dominick Vila December 10, 2014

            The worst part of the excuses being made by some ultra conservatives in this forum is that they are trying to justify the criminal acts cited in the congressional report, by reminding us of the atrocities committed by terrorists.
            I wonder how many of them realize that justifying our misguided behavior because terrorists do the same, they are lowering our moral standards, our values, our democracy, and our Constitution, and everything we stand for to the same level as Al Qaeda, ISIS and all the organizations labeled as terrorists by the civilized world.

            Reply
          3. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            The end justifying the means is a slippery slope. There are always some people who try to adjust the world to fit their behavior, and then there are normal people who adjust their behavior to fit the world.

            The one test that always fails for these people is a very old one: The golden rule. If you don’t want something done to you, then you’d better think twice before doing it to others. It’s so very simple, but some people think that they are the exception to the rule. Well, they are, but not in the way they intended.

            Reply
          4. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            They are the exception to the golden rule? That doesn’t even make sense.

            We generated the hatred of the Muslim world when we abandoned an even-handed attitude toward the Muslim-Jewish conflicr and came down on the side of the Jews. It started with Nixon.

            We have painted ourselves into a corner and don’t know how to extricate ourselves. At this point in time, we stand alone in our support of Israel. We have lost the support of our allies and cast ourselves as the handmaiden of Israel.

            If anyone wants to read further about this phenomenon, I recommend a book written by two Jewish political writers. It’s titled “The Israel Lobby.”

            The main thesis of the authors is that this development will ultimately benefit neither the Isrealis nor the United States.

            Reply
          5. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            None of this justifies crime. Torture is crime, and it doesn’t matter who does it. Support for Israel is a different issue and a separate discussion.

            Reply
          6. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            If torture is a crime follow your conscience and quit torturing us with your comments.

            Reply
          7. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            You are a fool of the first order.

            You wrote “I wonder how many of them realize that justifying our misguided behavior because terrorists do the same, they are lowering our moral standards, our values, our democracy, and our Constitution, and everything we stand for to the same level as Al Qaeda, ISIS and all the organizations labeled as terrorists by the civilized world.”

            We are threatened by a mortal enemy. We need to eliminate it. Your prattle about descending to the same level as Al Qaeda, ISIS, et al is so naive as to be pathetic.

            Reply
          8. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            Thank you for being so honest on the issue of lowering our standards and values to the same level as those used by terrorists. I don’t think too many Americans would go that far.
            This is not the first time we have been threatened by “mortal enemies”. Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we were at the brink of war against the Soviet Union during the Cuban missile crisis. Thousands of Americans lost their lives fighting Japan. Millions of Americans lives would have been lost if Khrushchev had not blinked, and yet we remained true to our values.

            Reply
          9. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            If it had not been for the atom bomb an estimated half a million Americans would have died.

            Reply
          10. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Domino is just another arm chair commenter grasping for up votes. You will never find him on a conservative site.

            Reply
          11. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

            Okay I will try and straighten up as soon as I can quit laughing.

            Reply
          12. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            You’ll quit laughing, all right. Think of change as the slow noose around the collective neck of racists. It may not be quick, but it will be just as effective when it finally closes tight. Be sure to get your ya-yas out while you still can.

            Reply
          13. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            When it comes to Islam I am a racist, bigot I have a hate wick at full burn. If you call a Muslim a negro he will remove your head. But they are Okay in your book.

            Reply
          14. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            No one likes war either. America is one of the only countries in the world that has turned war into politics.

            Do you really think that the terrorists that beheaded those Americans and other fellow Westerners gave a care? Do you think that the Japanese during WWII cared about their American prisoners when they placed matches under their fingernails and set them on fire? Yah, others really care don’t they.

            Reply
          15. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            The United States has prosecuted people for waterboarding before. There were cases of Japanese who were tried and convicted of waterboarding after World War II. The charges were classified as war crimes.

            In 1981, Texas Sheriff James Parker and three of his deputies were convicted of waterboarding prisoners to extract confessions. Sheriff Parker was sentenced to ten years in prison.

            Waterboarding and other similar tortures have been outlawed by the entire world with so many statues that they would be hard to count. This is crime, and if you advocate crime then you must respect criminals more than you do law-abiding citizens. Make up your mind what you are all about, because there’s still plenty of room in prison for you so that you can spend quality time with the criminals you admire so much.

            Reply
          16. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            I guess beheading hasn’t been…… Far worse. Neither has crashing plane loads of innocent people into buildings.

            Reply
          17. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            So your answer to crime is more crime? Not very good at critical thinking, are we?

            Reply
          18. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            Ever hear of ‘an eye for an eye?’ You see we have tied the hands of the police, opened up about the CIA, brought our troops home and condensed are military, and loosened the laws against criminals. Now you tell me, are we safer here and abroad?

            Critical thinking has nothing to do with it.

            Reply
          19. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            That’s very weak even for you. An eye for an eye presupposes that we are punishing somebody for their guilt. Torturing people who haven’t been convicted of anything isn’t legal punishment – its just wanton crime. Its entirely fitting that they chose the English equivalent of the Nazi euphemism ‘enhanced interrogation’ because engaging in such things puts one in the same category as the Nazis – criminals against humanity.

            By advocating despicable crimes you lose any claim you might otherwise have had to being a decent, law-abiding citizen. You are no better than an ISIS thug. They can come up with the very same justifications, and they do. Congratulations on validating their despicable behavior with your own.

            Reply
          20. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            Did the Muslims who carried out the 911 attacks have court orders to do so?

            We have a dangerous enemy: Islam. We must kill it by any means possible.

            Reply
          21. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Islam isn’t our enemy any more than Timothy McVeigh proved that Christianity was our enemy. None of these despicable terrorists are following any religious beliefs. They are instead hiding behind them. Learn the difference.

            Reply
          22. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            My answer to crime is revenge.

            Reply
          23. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            These people are such a bunch or air headed dicks they should model for a dildo company.

            Reply
          24. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            If you are an example of a law abiding citizen I will throw in with the Zetas.

            Reply
          25. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Whatever — as long as you agree to stop tea-bagging that poor pooch.

            Reply
          26. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Apparently you are not familiar with the Zetas.

            Reply
          27. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            How much time did Parker actually serve?

            Reply
          28. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            I don’t know, but I’ll try to find out. Meanwhile, here is an excerpt from a NY Times article from September 1983:

            “HOUSTON, Sept. 14—

            James C. Parker, 47 years old, the former sheriff of San Jacinto County, and two of his deputies, John Glover, 65, and Carl Lee, 63, were convicted today of conspiring to violate the rights of prisoners by subjecting them to water torture.

            The defendants were convicted on all counts except for Mr. Lee, who was found not guilty of one of four charges of depriving the inmates of liberty.

            The jury deliberated five hours before returning the verdict in United States District Court in Houston.

            The defendants sat stoically as the court clerk read the verdicts.

            The conspiracy conviction carries a maximum penalty of a $10,000 fine and 10 years in prison. Each of the other counts they were convicted on could result in a year in prison and $1,000 fine.

            The jury of six men and six women, which was instructed about the case Tuesday afternoon by Judge James DeAnda, began deliberating at 9 A.M. today.

            In closing arguments Tuesday, prosecutors stressed that while the victims of the alleged torture were not model citizens, the defendants were the ones who were on trial. The prosecution contended that the defendants suspended the Constitution in order to pry information from the prisoners.

            ‘We All Live by Rules’

            ”We all live by rules and they all apply throughout the land, and that includes San Jacinto County,” Assistant United States Attorney Pat Mulloy said. Defense lawyers repeated arguments that the victims, most with long criminal records, were interested in testifying only to gain parole or probation.

            ”The Government wants you to convict on statements from criminals and people who want to get out of jail,” Mr. Parker’s lawyer, Thomas P. Taylor, told the jury.

            Also on Tuesday, Judge DeAnda granted a mistrial fora fourth defendant, Floyd Baker, 40, because his defense was damaging to the other defendants.

            Mr. Baker, named in all six counts of the indictment, will get a new trial Oct. 17. He was the only defendant to acknowledge that water torture of prisoners took place at the jail about 50 miles north of Houston. But he insisted that he participated in the torture only because his superiors ordered him to do so.

            The prosecution called as witnesses victims, all with criminal records, who told of incidents from 1976 to 1980 and described how they were handcuffed to a table or chair and their faces wrapped tightly with a towel.

            According to the witnesses’ descriptions, the prisoners’ heads were pulled back and water poured over the towel. A prisoner, faced with suffocation, would kick with his feet when he was willing to talk about alleged crimes.

            Two of the victims testified that they had falsely confessed to crimes because of the torture.

            Mr. Parker pleaded guilty to similar charges earlier this year but the plea was rejected by a Federal judge who believed the sentencing in plea bargaining was too lenient.” — NY Times

            Reply
          29. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Here is an article on the sentencing:

            “HOUSTON, Oct. 26—

            Former Sheriff James C. Parker, convicted with two former deputies of torturing prisoners to elicit confessions, was sentenced Tuesday to the maximum 10 years in prison and a $12,000 fine.

            Federal District Judge James DeAnda handed down the sentence, telling Mr. Parker he had allowed law enforcement in San Jacinto County to deterioriate until ”it was in the hands of a bunch ofthugs.”

            ”The operation down there would embarrass the
            dictator of a country,” Judge DeAnda told Mr. Parker, 47 years old. ”You were the person who orchestrated the series of offenses.”

            Judge DeAnda sentenced two of Mr. Parker’s former deputies, John Glover and Carl Lee, to lesser sentences. Mr. Glover, 65, was given two years plus a three-year suspended sentence, and Mr. Lee, 63, seven years, but he will serve only four. Each got five years’ probation. They could have received 13 years in prison and $13,000 in fines. 6 Prisoners Testified

            Six torture victims, all with criminal histories,
            testified at the three-week trial that they had been handcuffed to a table or chair with the face wrapped tightly with a towel. The head would be pulled back, they said, and water would be poured over the towel until, fearing drowning, they would talk.

            None of the defendants showed emotion as the sentences were read.

            The judge set bond for Mr. Parker at $150,000 and ordered him jailed unless he could post bond. Mr. Parker handed his tie to his wife, Nelda, and Federal marshals escorted him out.

            Mr. Parker, Mr. Glover and Mr. Lee were convicted onmultiple charges of torturing inmates to deprive them of liberty without due process of law. Mr. Lee was acquitted on one count. Mr.
            Glover and Mr. Lee were the second- and third-ranking officers in the department under Parker.

            Lawyers for the defense contended the men who
            testified that they had been tortured were interested gaining parole or probation. They Did Not Testify

            None of the three former law-enforcement officers took the stand before the jury.

            Judge DeAnda declared a mistrial for a fourth deputyindicted in the case, Floyd Baker, who testified he was merely following orders when he participated in torture sessions. Mr. Baker’s new trial begins next week.

            Mr. Parker earlier agreed to plead guilty in an
            arrangement that would have sent him to a minimum-security prison for three years, fined him $15,000 and placed him on five years’ probation. But another Federal judge rejected the arrangement.

            Mr. Parker’s lawyer, Thomas Taylor, said it was
            ”more than likely” he would appeal. Judge DeAnda gave them 10 days to file notice of appeal.

            Mr. Parker, his son, two bail bondsmen and another former deputy await trial on charges stemming from an indictment Oct. 4 accusing them of conspiring to violate civil rights of motorists who, it is charged, were falsely arrested in a ”marijuana trap” along U.S. 59, 60 miles northeast of Houston.

            The indictment says that arrests often were not
            recorded, that bond money was kept by the sheriff’s office and items seized were sold illegally. All defendants have pleaded not guilty.”
            — NY Times

            Reply
          30. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            You don’t seem to understand that the rest of the world includes the lands of Islam.

            Reply
          31. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            Trying to justify our behavior by reminding people that terrorists do the same is not going to help. In fact, by lowering our standards to the same level as the people we label as terrorists we become no better than them.
            The only recourse, under the circumstances, is to come clean, admit wrongdoing, and demonstrate through positive deeds that we remain a beacon of freedom and democracy, and the leaders of the free world.

            Reply
          32. joe schmo December 11, 2014

            Of course it is Dominick because the world is not a nice place. You have to gain respect wherever you go in the world and you don’t get there by being weak and passive. It is not quite the Utopia you hope for and aspire it to be. Everyone gets bullied or teased sometime in their lives. What do you do, just walk away. Don’t think so.

            I guess you may as well add a few other countries to to your list of uncivilized and brutal. Some may surprise you…..

            According to an rt.com report.

            “At least 54 countries including Syria, Iran, Sweden, Iceland, and UK
            offered CIA “covert support” to detain, transport, interrogate and
            torture suspects in the years following the 9/11 attacks, according to a
            new report.”

            Free world! You call what we are living in now free? Wow, what ship did you get off of. The Titanic? This is not the free world I used to know. No way.

            Reply
          33. Dominick Vila December 11, 2014

            The UK, Sweden, Spain, Portugal and a few other countries offered refueling rights to planes carrying detainees. Those countries did not allow torture on their soil. Poland, Syria, Romania, and a couple of others did, and now claim they did not know what was going on.
            Yes, this is a very dangerous world, and it is likely to get more dangerous as the population of the world continues to grow, resources become more and more scarce, famine and diseases continue to increase, arms continue to be sold to the highest bidder, and nobody is held accountable when abuses of power as revealed.
            You are correct in saying that respect must be earned to get international cooperation. Unfortunately, deceit and threats, such as “you are either with us, or you are against us”, are not going to get us very far. Getting concessions and cooperation as a result of fear of retaliation does not earn respect. More often than not, the opposite is true.
            Should we sit passively and allow our enemies to persist in their determination to do us harm? Absolutely not, and that is the reason for President Obama’s measured attacks on terrorist cells worldwide.
            In any case, there is a huge difference between an aggressive foreign policy, focused on protecting our country and our global interests, and torture of prisoners of war. We can do better than that.

            Reply
          34. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            You are so wrong I find it hard to believe that you are sincere. Obama is a campaigner, other people call the shots.

            Reply
          35. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            The world will get worse while domino sits there and scratches his bag while he cuts and pastes.

            Reply
          36. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            You are a polyanna. I think that the older you get, the less one can derive from your opinions.

            Reply
          37. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            His opinions are cut and paste. He is the epitome of what has gone wrong with our country.

            Reply
          38. jmprint December 12, 2014

            CPA you can’t compete with Dominick, you are not smart enough.

            Reply
          39. CPAinNewYork December 12, 2014

            Screw you too, jmprint.

            Did Dominick coach you on what to say?

            Reply
          40. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            If that cute little thumb nail sitting next to you got shredded by a car bomb your tune would change.

            Reply
          41. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Joe if you have the stomach go to kaotic .com and dial in war and unrest.. Its a uncensored site that brings you ISIS and the cartel at there best.

            Reply
          42. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            Crime pays in case you haven’t noticed. The jails for profit are full of you people all whining that its whiteys fault.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Do you really believe what you are saying? Can you possibly be that naive to think all republicans are evil? They are Americans like you. They will fight to keep your constitution and your rights. Mankind has never had a better system of government but we are going to lose it we don’t start pulling together. Then all these conversation will stop forever. The guys with the most guns will remove your teeth if you say something they don’t want to hear. What ever it takes to keep these silly blogs going I am all for.

          Reply
    2. Joe T December 15, 2014

      One can be political correct and then DEAD. You kidnap my child and you will tell me where my child is……with your last drop of blood.
      Be honest with yourself…….what’s more dear to you …. your precious child or the pervert who has your child hidden…I DARE YOU to say the pervert is more important and you are a woman/possible mother. Human instincts overrule logic.
      best regards, Joe T

      Reply
  12. ps0rjl December 10, 2014

    Dick Cheney could have worked in Hitler’s inner circle. I hope Goebbels, Eichmann, and the rest of them have a seat in their circle for him when he gets to hell. And let’s not let off Rice, Rumsfeld, and GWB. All of them were in on it. The only one who is blameless is Powell as he resigned when he realized it was all a lie. May they all rot in hell for their war crimes.
    One of my items on my bucket list is to piss on Dick Cheney’s grave. It makes me sick to think I served this country when a**holes like these came to power.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      Saddam’s circle was as bad as Hitlers. Saddam’s problem was that Hitler killed off all the Jews before he got a chance to. First come first serve. Sounds like all you served this country was a plate full of sour grapes.

      Reply
      1. ps0rjl December 10, 2014

        Saddam was not a good man but at least he kept stability in that area. What we have after the invasion is a clusterf*ck and no way to fix it. Remember what Colin Powell said about the china shop rule. “You break it you own it!”. Sadly that is the legacy of the Iraq War. As for my service, I could care less what you think. Too bad the only thing you’ve serviced is your husband’s dick.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          So did Hitler and Stalin. What were you a cook? I guess you really did serve. You were a servant second class.Colon Powell who was he an affirmative action dude who quit when the going got tough?

          Reply
  13. Hgeyer December 10, 2014

    Time to indict Bush and Cheney for war crimes much like the rest of the free world would do!

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

      Why don’t you include a larger scope of the world to your small-minded thought process…..Tell ISIS to stop chopping off heads…… Not that they or the rest of the world will listen to some dumb Americans trying to tame a crazy world.

      Reply
      1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

        Why do you think people hate Americans enough to make them beheading targets in the first place? It’s because of a$$holes like you that Americans get singled out for this treatment.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

          What makes people hate Americans is reading this school yard drivel.

          Reply
          1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

            Now how would you know? Meaningful education said bye-bye to you long before you stopped pissing your pants, and constantly forgetting your tea-bagging helmet doesn’t help much either.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I don’t dampen my shorts I use Depends. Your school yard knowledge base is inspiration to shut down the entire school system.

            Reply
          3. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            Sorry, you are just getting boring. Please give Fido a break and conjure up some new material.

            Reply
          4. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            You could use a good boring. Try Huffington post gay voices. They are experts at boring. You could go to a redneck saloon and get line bored. If none of this is fulfilling you could read your own posts.

            Reply
          5. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            I’ll take your word for it. You seem to be fixated on Huffington Post Gay Voices, so I’m guessing it has something to do with your tea-bagging proclivities. Perhaps that’s where you send out invitations to your nut-parties. But if it’s not too much to ask, how about having a heart and leaving Fido out of it? He appears absolutely dejected and violated, and it’s just a heart-breaking sight to behold.

            Reply
          6. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Huffington gay voices are all Obama loving liberals and like you they all suck.

            Reply
          7. Hgeyer December 10, 2014

            By “school yard drivel” you must be referring to comments made by “hicusdiscus” . So I guess it’s YOUR fault people hate Americans…..

            Reply
          8. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            More like comments by your ilk and you. Americans are less free because of all this ridiculous micromanagement by Democrats.

            Reply
          9. Hgeyer December 10, 2014

            YOU still have the freedom to post ignorant comments on line….

            Reply
          10. joe schmo December 10, 2014

            ….and so do you…..

            Reply
          11. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            It’s okay joette, you are perfectly free to go stuff yourself. That freedom has never been impaired in your case.

            Reply
          12. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            Hey! How did you know I just stuffed myself. 3 lbs of Angus beef rib-eye, charcoal cooked . I like to eat dead cows. What kind of meat do you like to put in your mouth?

            Reply
          13. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I don’t care if people hate Americans or not. I just want them to fear American power. I feel that you are falling down on the job. Try harder to be scary.

            Reply
          14. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            hicusdickhead, they just hate you, not real Americans.

            Reply
          15. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            Hate requires a lot of effort and you are way to lazy. To be hated by liberal is a badge of honor.

            Reply
      2. Hgeyer December 10, 2014

        Covered THAT discussion months ago fool! You were probably playing video games and missed that conversation……

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

          You call this mindless blathering conversation? Whats wrong with video games ? They are a lot more interesting than reading your post holes.

          Reply
      3. sleepvark December 10, 2014

        jolina, your husband let you out of the kitchen again?
        You are such an idiot. We don’t control ISIS. We aren’t responsible for what evil they do.
        We are responsible for our own actions. When we do evil, it dishonors everything that is sacred in us. Our biggest advantage used to be that we were seen as the good guys, the people living under the rule of law. The ones you could trust to do the right thing, no matter the circumstances.
        Not any more. We have descended to the level of the terrorists. They have won an impressive victory over us by bringing us down to their level in the eyes of the rest of the civilized world. Our loss of good faith will take decades of good and honorable work to get back, if ever. The stench of the evil done in our name will be on us for a very long time.
        The real problem is the high number of fools who think it’s okay to carry such stench, are comfortable with it, reject those who say no to it.
        If you support torture, you are evil, and very much a part of the problem. There will be no way to wash the stench of this evil off you.
        I pity you, just as I revile everything you stand for.

        Reply
        1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

          Of course we don’t control them. That’s my point. I guess your lame brain did not get my pun.

          “When we do evil?’ Well I guess if you mean you would rather shake the hand of someone who would rather take off your head, go for it. Guess you forgot of late two words have creeped into the land of the good guys. Weak and disrespected worldwide are two words that come to mind.

          ‘Down to their level? Yes, we are headed down that direction because of the politically correct micromanaging by the Democrats in office and the RINO’s that are helping them.

          I don’t support torture, but I also don’t condone being disrespected or weakness. We were the good guys because we were strong militarily and respected because we attained that by being tough. I feel that American safety is more important to me than evil created by terrorists who would rather shoot you than look at you.

          I pity you because you and your wonderful hypocrites have made a mockery of this country, whereby; this separation between us, if it is not corrected, will sever this country forever. Disunited we stand, disunited we fall.

          Reply
          1. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            Disunited from you forever is my intent el schmucko, old girl. You don’t condone being disrespected? Why in the world do you post your drivel here then? Everybody here disrespects and despises you, with so many very good reasons.
            Of course you support torture. Your every word reeks with it, you filthy dirtbag. If you could just stop teabagging long enough to get some fresh air into your lungs what’s left of your pea brain might recover a bit.
            On second thought, continue with the teabagging. Your contributions to the Village Idiot Weekly are too valuable to discontinue.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I think Joe is a jewel among this land fill of a blog or fog or twirly gigs. You need to pay attention, you might almost learn something.

            Reply
          3. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            hicusdickhead, you need to pull your head out of your backside, or at least clean off your navel so you can see more clearly.
            It is funny to see you and joe verbally teabagging each other here. Pathetic, but in a funny way.
            What’s not funny is the way you proudly announce your cowardice and complete lack of honor and/or common sense. You are both no more than filthy stains on the page.
            Do keep in touch. I enjoy our little chats.

            Reply
          4. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            One of the benefits of being able to stick ones head up their arse is the money that can be saved on a colonoscopy. If you happen to hiding up there I will see you.

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I condone anything that keeps me and my dogs safe. I also condone anything that keeps you safe.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          I doubt if any one with a normal outlook on life will pay much attention to your skit-so rant except my dog, he is always looking for a new place to raise his leg or leave a steamer.

          Reply
          1. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            hicusdickhead, your face gets wet every time your dog lifts his leg on account of your teabagging whatever seems to be available at the time. Leave the poor dog’s balls alone for just a little while, why don’t you.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            My dog does not have any balls so you two have something in common. He still tries to lick them. Do you have the same affliction?

            Reply
          3. sleepvark December 11, 2014

            So your dog takes after her owner, so that makes both of you bitches.
            There is certainly no evidence in your girlish postings here of you ever having had any balls, except in your mouth, since you are a self professed teabagger.

            Reply
          4. Eleanore Whitaker December 11, 2014

            You two just don’t know when you’ve been bested. Do you? Men who insist when they are wrong prove they are mentally unstable…take the hint.

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            I bet if you could find someone to slip you a hint you would smile more often.

            Reply
        3. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          I don’t think anybody is going to get to bent out of shape being on your revile list. I think these terrorist should be impaled on a cattle prod while they are subjected to watching gay porno.

          Reply
    2. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      The only war crime they committed was not annihilating every last one of those sons of camels.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker December 11, 2014

        Bet that double wide you’re sitting on that neither Bush nor Cheney will EVER set foot in Poland or Turkey…will they? Secret prisons, secret documents claiming Iraq had WMDS that turned out to be proven by the 9/11 Commission to be pure Cheney BS to pay off his campaign debts to his Halliburton and Blackwater cronies. Get a life loser.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          I can’t afford a double wide. I bet you would love to have a double wide. I bet that would put a smile on your face.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker December 11, 2014

            Now that we have affordable healthcare insurance, even a welfare king like you can afford professional mental care.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            Before one can get mental care they first have to have a mind. There, the door is open now run with it.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I just got out of a 4 day stay in the hospital. Cath lab stints, A fibb that sort of nonsense. Cost 42000.00 dollars. I paid cash no check. Is that how you would have handled it?

            Reply
  14. Eleanore Whitaker December 10, 2014

    This report was bound to come out sooner or later. That it was declassified back in 2009 and under review that took nearly 6 years to complete shows the gross extremes of secrecy the GOP and Bush administration operated under.

    I’m sorry if I don’t buy Herr Cheney’s BS that they didn’t know what the CIA was doing. When Bush’s father was once head of that very CIA? Come off it.

    Cheney may be many evil things. But he would never EVER not know what any branch under the Bush administration was doing. He’s pulling off his tried and true fine old CEO “I didn’t know” routine.

    He knew and he knew every detail. That’s one not even he can try to deny.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      Reading your posts to incarcerated terrorists could be torture or at least a war crime.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker December 11, 2014

        Actually, YOUR posts are the most supportive of terrorism. YOUR posts should be considered sidling up to the enemy. A man like you will always find some excuse to judge everyone more harshly than he will EVER judge himself. That’s why you so perfectly fit the stereotype of home grown terrorist. You love playing lord and master and Supreme High Ruler of all living things. Grow the hell up already. Poor little hi hi….can’t have his way. Go change your Pampers or get your handmaiden of the lord to do it for you.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          WOW! There is nothing like reading one of your posts in the morning to help mother nature get yesterdays dinner on the next leg of its journey. It was a successful splash down and I watched it swirl out of sight. If nothing else you are good for the digestive system. You should start posting for a weight loss magazine.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker December 11, 2014

            Get off the drugs hi hi…Your posts suckola and are only sufficient as tripe to feed the fish.

            Reply
          2. CPAinNewYork December 11, 2014

            Eleanore:

            Without a doubt, you are a lowbrow clown. A real piece of crap.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            You are wrong EW is not a piece of crap. She is a giant swirl of steaming used food embedded with pop corn and wiggly things..

            Reply
          4. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            CPA….All you are is a number cruncher and not even a good one. If you were, you’d have been Madoff’s right hand little boy. You are a real piece of what I call “waste” I flush down the toilet. Crunch that number if you dare, you Hitlerian Bully.

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            You actually managed to drop something in the toilet? Did it stop it up or crawl back out and cry for mommy?

            Reply
          6. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Well at least you now have something to eat.

            Reply
  15. Eleanore Whitaker December 10, 2014

    I’m waiting for the right wing hot shots to try and blame Obama for this. If our current president is anything, he is a master at strategy. He may have been up to his ears in GOP alligators for 6 years. But, when it came to this report, he kept it under wraps. It would have been leaked by the GOP, if it came to that, when, not if, Hillary is elected president. That way, the GOP bulls could lob all the blame on her.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      Even right winged fried chicken nut jobs won’t blame the retarded.

      Reply
      1. WhutHeSaid December 10, 2014

        I see you’ve forgotten your helmet again, and all that tea-bagging has you even more addled than normal. Say, why don’t you make a good will gesture and let that poor pooch go? He appears as near to suicide as I’ve ever seen any animal. It makes me shudder to think of what evil he’s endured in your trailer.

        Reply
        1. sleepvark December 10, 2014

          He’s too busy teabagging the poor pooch.

          Reply
          1. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            I think he forces the pooch to do the tea-bagging.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            What the f**k is teabagging?

            Reply
          3. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            You aren’t fooling anyone, hicsucsdics.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          We both imbibe cannabis tea. You should try some it will get you straightened right out. It might just help you get lucky with a white woman. Panty hose on a goat just doesn’t cut it. Unless you plan to barbeque her after you are through. I bet that tweaked you interest. You are a tweak-er, right.

          Reply
          1. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

            I’m sure that you imbibe a great many things, but none of that excuses cruelty to animals. Pantyhose on a goat, eh? Get your jollies on that sort of thing, do you?

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

            Panty hose for the cloven hoof. I assumed that was your thing. Please don’t tell me you are moving up to camel humps.

            Reply
  16. rkief December 10, 2014

    These two should have been impeached, not only for lying to Congress (how about the people, don’t we count?) about getting us into wars, and torture, but allowing, and indeed, encouraging, the destruction of our economy and environment by their profiteering buddies. I’ve never forgiven (then) Speaker Pelosi for taking impeachment “off the table.”

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      The reason is the impeachers are impared

      Reply
  17. DrainBrain December 10, 2014

    With a grain of salt I will henceforth listen to the US call out other nations as human rights violators. You can only give up your hymen once, never to claim that white wedding dress at any subsequent wedding without everyone knowing you for what you truly are. We should apologize to the convicted war criminals that we as a nation tried.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      You need not worry about human rights violators. The first requirement is to be human.

      Reply
      1. sleepvark December 10, 2014

        Right hicusdickhead, try being human for once. But then again, never mind. Not worth the effort.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          You are right humans are such a sorry lot. So you stoop to calling my dog derogatory names. What did hicus ever do to you? Oh! your jealous he can lick himself in places you can only dream about.

          Reply
    2. DrainBrain December 11, 2014

      Thanks! I mistakenly elevated the evil ones, it will never happen again for I now know them for what they are by their eagerness to point the finger at the alleged perpetuator, all the while three of their fingers point back to themselves, while their thumb points to their imaginary friend above.

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

        The thumb part of your comment was right on target. Bravo!!!

        Reply
      2. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

        Better be careful — hicsucsdics likes to plant his thumb in a special area while enjoying a leisurely tea-bagging. Just ask Fido, poor pooch!

        Reply
    3. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

      Don’t apologize just be thankful. Only the winners get to try war criminals. All countries violates human rights only the US does it the least. This planet is packed with humans who violate everything and someday mother nature is going to get fed up and get rid of all of us.

      Reply
  18. Angel Perea December 10, 2014

    THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH: So the truth will set us FREE! No we are a Nation like no others! We do not use “enhanced “TORCHER” interrogation that failed to yield any useful actionable facts? I find it interesting how some republicans (that never served) now wish to support the intentional cover up of this scathing report that lets Americans know the truth! We are not Nazis or Isis! These rogue CIA agents and their outsourced contractors were trying to cover its butt from prosecution from international war crimes law and lying to Congress and obstructed are not patriots but war criminals! Their document show they were approved by higher up such Cheney, Rice, Gonzalez and Rumsfeld his other Chicken hawks that never served! Since these cowards would never be affected by these nternational
    crimes like Senator McCain who did serve and faced torched! Note how Colin Powell who did serve was kept out the torture loop as well! We must protect our warriors in the future from anyone using torchure against our captives! Kudos, Senator Feinstein for her professionalism and the responsible bi partisan committee. America is the leader of the Free world and the defender of the Standard for Human rights and fearless prosecutor of terrorist! You did us proud! It is interesting to note how the only ones speaking out against this report are those cowards that never served or will never serve! http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-lauds-release-terror-report/index.html?hpt=po_c1
    & http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/world/senate-intelligence-committee-cia-torture-report.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news#permid=13540651
    & http://news.yahoo.com/sexual-threats-other-cia-methods-detailed-senate-report-095700909.html
    & http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/us/politics/white-house-and-gop-clash-over-torture-report.html?src=me

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      Diane Fiddlestien the anti gun nut who has a concealed carry permit. You might want to inquire where her millions came from. By the way, anybody caught not lying to congress is usually tagged as retarded or a liberal or both. Torture, Torcher,Turtcherd, torchurded, Oh hell, beaten till their eyes bleed. A chicken hawk is a pedophile. If you ever get your factoids straight it will make it easier to slide into your panty hoses.

      Reply
      1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

        ‘Fiddlestein’ LOL…..won’t forget that one. You may as well add Reidtard and Peloser to that group. Funny thing, they made millions off the backs of the Dems…and not all honestly either. No wonder they are pissed they lost. Power hungry bastards.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          Both parties are so power hungry they are totally obese. What is really incredible is the public actually believe that they have some say in the process of government. Democracy, the worlds greatest scam.

          Reply
          1. The lucky one December 11, 2014

            Finally something I pretty much agree with you about. The members of the public who have a say are those with the money for bribes (now legal since scotus inc. ruling in citizens united.)

            Reply
      2. The lucky one December 11, 2014

        So you’re saying Cheney is a pedophile??? Must be, because there has never been anyone who deserved the title more of “chicken hawk” than your boy Dick.

        Reply
        1. Bill Quigley December 11, 2014

          Cheney is the ultimate pedophile, literally walking around with the heart of a youngster in his chest. What a misuse of our highly skilled medical profession.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            That’s a pretty rotten thing to say about anybody even a liberal.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Are you sure you know what you talking about?

          Reply
          1. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            Well let’s see.

            You said “A chicken hawk is a pedophile”. We could fill a book with Cheney’s statements verifying his position on pre-emptive war, torture etc. But when he had the chance to become personally involved in fighting a war he declined. When asked why he avoided service he said he had better things to do. (So did a lot of others who ended up maimed or dead) If that’s not proof he is a chicken hawk then no no one is. So by your view Cheney must be a pedophile.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Cheney is a hawk not a chicken hawk. Try and get something right even though you are a lefty.

            Reply
          3. The lucky one December 13, 2014

            A chicken hawk is someone who advocates sending others off to fight and die but when the opportunity presents itself they are to chickenshit to put themselves in harms way for the “cause”. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and most of the other right wingers fit the bill. McCain is an exception and you’ll notice he against torture having been on the receiving end himself.

            Reply
    2. joe schmo December 10, 2014

      We are not Nazi’s or ISIS but we are becoming more Marxist by the evil hands of the Left everyday.

      “These interrogations … gave us kind of a Home Depot-like storage of information on Al Qaeda on which we relied,” Hayden told Fox News. “We are still relying on it today.”

      Hayden was one of the top-ranking intelligence officials in the federal government for a decade.”

      Guess you don’t care one iota that this open report puts Americans lives in danger?

      By the way, we are less free than we ever have been due to the micromanagement of Democrats and we are no longer number ‘uno’ in the world. We are now number ‘dos’ after China:)

      Reply
      1. silas1898 December 10, 2014

        Hayden looks like Himmler’s grandson.

        He will say anything to justify his crimes.

        Reply
        1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

          My, my, my. Don’t you fit the Weimar Republic profile.

          Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          Did you know Himmler’s grandson? You must be the only person on the planet who does.

          Reply
      2. sleepvark December 10, 2014

        You quote fux news again, as if that was some sort of credible source. What a tool you are, and you’re getting stupider by the second.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          STUPIDER! Wow what a sophisticated vocabulary.

          Reply
          1. sleepvark December 12, 2014

            hicusdickhead, you still crapping in this old pile? You need a new drug to get you beyond the menopause you suffer so severely.

            Reply
      3. WhutHeSaid December 11, 2014

        What happened to America’s economic dominance in the world was Bush’s devastating economic Armageddon — which you should be thanking Obama for rescuing us from. This is nothing new, of course, as Democratic administrations are always cleaning up the horrible economic mess left by Republicans.

        And the overall results of the counter-terrorism programs and interrogations were attributable to professional interrogations that didn’t include torture. It’s clear that the amateurish brutality conducted by mainly contractors yielded nothing of value, and did lasting damage to America’s moral standing in the world — which is at least as important as our economic standing. So on both counts the Republicans have once again damaged the entire country with their incompetence and despicable behavior.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          You just turned this site into comedy central.

          Reply
          1. jmprint December 12, 2014

            No hicups, that’s your stage.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I will share the stage with you and we will see who gets the most laughs. I know you will win. What could be funnier than a liberal trying to make a point.

            Reply
          3. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            Yes, we know you always have a point — on the top of your head. Go back and play with you tea-bagging buddies. Don’t forget your helmet this time.

            Reply
      4. Bill Quigley December 11, 2014

        Joe, you need to go back and read the Declaration of Independence. This document sets
        out in no uncertain terms the standards for protecting the rights of individuals without any exceptions. Our constitution puts these concepts into law. We are a nation of laws; that is one of the distinctions that has made us unique among the nations and caused others to follow our lead. We can not survive as a nation and culture with a shadow government performing criminal acts without our knowledge or consent!!

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

          Joe can’t read…He isn’t just physically handicapped as he claims…He is the most mentally handicapped neurotic to come down the pike.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Please go back to the vent fan room and strain harder you could be about to explode. You could be terrorist butt bomb.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Terrorists are not individuals or even slightly human. This brings to mind the ISIS who just beheaded 4 young boys because they would not renounce Christ. Give me a can of lighter fluid and a match and I would have these ISIS praying for a good water boarding.

          Reply
  19. latebloomingrandma December 10, 2014

    This report did not surprise me, as about 3 years ago I read “The Dark Side” by Jane Mayer, an investigative reporter from the” New Yorker”. This was well researched and footnoted and graphic in describing the torture program. Cheney should have been impeached. Make no mistake–he was the person behind this, plus his consigliere David Addington. Not only did he NOT defend the Constitution, he performed all kinds of “duties” not authorized in the Constitution concerning the VP role. He really acted like a mafia don. I suppose Mayer’s report was not believed by many, as she is a liberal. Obama allegedly not following the Constitution is nothing compared to the Cheney-Bush administration. I would like to see Cheney in the Hague on trial.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 10, 2014

      I think Cheney did a great job. Where he went astray is that he did not nuke them and all their camels.

      Reply
      1. highpckts December 10, 2014

        Go. Away . Again!

        Reply
        1. joe schmo December 10, 2014

          Not!

          Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          HI! I missed you. Please give us one of your pearls of wisdom. If you are lacking wisdom a pearl will do.

          Reply
      2. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

        You would think Hitler’s spawn did a good job..Shows what a true mental case you really are. Do you always sit there on your computer thinking up ways to be contrary to the mentally sane in our society or is it something that was caused by your inbreeding ..or…should that be “cross breeding.”

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          Cross breeding it produces better results. If you don’t believe me just go look in the mirror.

          Reply
  20. TVulgaris December 11, 2014

    I can absolutely guarantee the US will continue to torture. It’s an important part of the very foundation of lies, theft, and murder upon which the country is based.
    I can also guarantee as absolutely that “enhanced interrogation” of Dick Cheney would yield clear and concise useful information as to terrorist attacks of 9/11 that would have proved critical in their prevention.

    Reply
    1. joe schmo December 11, 2014

      I can also guarantee you that other Countries use interrogation and torture as their protocol. Should we decimate these so called ‘uncivilized tactics’ where they are concerned?

      In a recent report from rt.com:

      At least 54 countries including Syria, Iran, Sweden, Iceland, and UK
      offered CIA “covert support” to detain, transport, interrogate and
      torture suspects in the years following the 9/11 attacks, according to a
      new report.

      You better rethink the wheel. You don’t get respect by being weak and passive and ‘shaking hands and apologizing to your enemies.’ That’s like taking a stick to a gunfight.

      Reply
      1. The lucky one December 11, 2014

        Sweden and Iceland offered support to torture people??? Highly unlikely. And Iran cooperating with us on anything even more unlikely. UK and Syria maybe.

        Reply
        1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

          The worst torture known to man is listening to a continuous loop of liberal comments.

          Reply
          1. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            “listening”, so it’s as I suspected someone reads the posts to you. As for continuous loop you’re actually pretty good at recycling your comments too.

            Reply
          2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            If it fits wear it.

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            You don’t listen…that’s a huge problem among ALL CONS like you. Your mouths are bigger than cows’ butts.

            Reply
          4. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            You should talk…..

            Reply
          5. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            I don’t know how you manage to “listen” in posts. But, I suspect your version of listen is akin to “Ach Tung! Hitler Joe has spoken..now Listen!”

            Reply
          6. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            EW never stops talking and whats bad is she talks out of both ends and it all smells the same.

            Reply
          7. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            OMG You really need to get regular. Another morning of straining and no results. My mouth size is Okay as long as it does not surpass the size of your posterior. If it ever grew to that enormity I could swallow the world . You are jewel, Speaking of mouths, if you could stop swallowing your taste buds could be pulled of the endangered list. Speaking of Buds you are in dire need of some 20 percenerts. They could return you to some degree of normalcy. Have a nice day and good luck in the vent fan room.

            Reply
          8. Eleanore Whitaker December 13, 2014

            I don’t need you to tell me what “I” need. Mental hospitals are full of your kind. You can’t agree with anyone because you are mentally unbalanced.

            Mental hospitals are full of men like you. They fight taking their medications, fight with those trying to help them and fight, fight, fight with other mental patients. Why don’t you and your cannibals devour each other if you are so miserable?

            Reply
          9. hicusdicus December 13, 2014

            Your are as thin skinned as a nine year old. You are the one who brought up how much you hate men. How wonderful it was to shed your no good husband. I sure would like to hear his side of it. Actually after reading your vicious comments I already know what he is going to say. That you were the reason for his erectile dysfunction.

            Reply
          10. Eleanore Whitaker December 14, 2014

            So let’s see…all of my posts attack your childish premises of male autonomous power and control…Your posts defend…Not a very good position for a contrarian BS artist to try and make a case.

            I shed my ex because it was MY choice. I am not now nor ever had any desire to be “marriage” material. If you could hear his “side” of it, you’d be the first to resurrect a man who died in 2006 at age 61. A man who was in a horrendous accident that nearly took his life in 1986 and became an amputee.

            My ex and I were always on good terms. I just don’t like men who waste their lives on booze. And, contrary to your stupid, ignorant remarks, my ex was also a skirt chaser of female bar flies.

            Urine smelling bars with trampy broads isn’t my thing. I hold myself to a much higher standard…one my ex didn’t realize until his bar fly 2nd wife’s drinking got to be worse than his own.

            All while I was “FREE” to do as I damn well please, when and where I please on my own dollar. Sorry your wife is so needy. She only has an MRS degree to validate her existence. I, on the other hand, have aspired to greater forward advancements. Not bad for a 17 year old business owner who by age 62 had 2 published novels, paid off my mortgage and raised 2 sons without the interference of a bull male.

            My ex and I grew up living only a few streets from each other. My dad was an Italian immigrant who bought undeveloped property and built with his two hands and the help of my 5…count ’em…5 brothers and half brothers.

            You are one pathetic dude looking for any simple minded excuse to prove you are right. You are…so damn far right your butt is flying in the air.

            Reply
          11. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            They don’t even get it when you give them the information. This tells me that they rely solely on here say. The snippet from this article came from a Liberal think tank. I even gave them the site? They just can’t get beyond that emotional baggage that is the government whom they listen to feverishly.

            Reply
          12. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            They rely on ‘here say’? Did you mean to say ‘hearsay’? Perhaps you meant ‘heresy’?

            This isn’t the first time you’ve been called on one of your whoppers, Josephine. And you’ve never backed them up by ponying up the information you claim that you found. Cutting and pasting a link is very simple, unless you are a liar — then it becomes difficult, yes?

            Reply
          13. jmprint December 12, 2014

            You must love to be tortured.

            Reply
          14. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            I guess I have become masochistic. Liberasl can cause that.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          How do you know? You don’t. You just like to sound like you are on the moral high ground. I think it is called confirmation bias. Similar to love Jesus and you will go to heaven.

          Reply
          1. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            You’re right I don’t know that for a fact and neither does Joe know what he asserted is correct either. Oh excuse me, it was “according to a new report” though he neglected to say who wrote the “report”. If someone makes an assertion that is out of line with past experience such as “Sweden, Iceland …
            offered CIA “covert support” to detain, transport, interrogate and torture suspects” the onus is on them to provide proof. Otherwise we can safely assume it is false.

            Reply
          2. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            Again, I told you where to find it. Do some research for a change.

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            Mentally ill people keep insisting they are right when they can be proven in a court of law they are wrong. You prove that joi boi.

            Reply
          4. The lucky one December 12, 2014

            “Not so magnificent 7: nations ‘busted’ in redacted CIA terror report” – rt.com
            Is that the article you cited Joe? No mention of Iceland, Sweden or even Iran although the article did include a world map with alleged torture cooperators colored blue. No indication of what the coloring was based on or who made the determinations and nothing specific or even a mention of those 3 countries in the article.
            That your idea of research?

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            The only way for you to safely assume anything is with a condom stretched over your head. The head that blathers not the one that dangles.

            Reply
          6. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            I told you where to find the article and it is a liberal one at that.

            Reply
          7. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            Everything is liberal to you when it’s something you don’t agree with..A psychiatrist would tell that neurotic paranoia.

            Reply
          8. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            Seriously! You say this same thing to all of us. Like a skip in the record, it just keeps skipping on and on and on……..

            Reply
          9. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            I said you are a liar…Now..do you have the quads to admit you lied about Sweden and Iceland or shall I have someone from Sweden tell you that to your face…She was born there.

            Reply
          10. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            She does skip a lot. I think it has something to do with her gender confusion. Or it could be an itchy crotch.

            Reply
          11. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            When did they take you off the Thorazine?

            Reply
        3. joe schmo December 12, 2014

          Look it up….you never do.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            Joe …you are such a liar…Sweden and Iceland NEVER offered support to torture people. How do I know? My younger son lived in Sweden for 15 years from 1998 until 2013…Now..liar boy…come clean if you dare. Sweden and Iceland are neutral countries that took in the refugees from Iraq that Bush caused in the first place.

            Reply
          2. joe schmo December 12, 2014

            Look it up Eleanore. I do my research. Never have I seen you do that…..

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            I don’t have to look it up. I have numerous Swedish friends who would tell you to your face you are a liar. And, I will do that just to put you in your place if necessary. You are a liar. You can’t tell God the truth much less yourself.

            You know nothing and act like you know everything. Shall I ask Pia, Mattias, Pieter or Roy (my Swedish friends )to call you a liar? Or is that right wing report you inhaled like cocaine your real problem?

            Reply
          4. hicusdicus December 13, 2014

            Swedish friends, Ha! They are in Sweden because you are not there. You have friends. That the funniest comment out of you yet.

            Reply
  21. Barabbus December 11, 2014

    Why doesn’t Obama just send a drone to Gitmo? No more waterboarding, just turn them all into so much applesauce and then it’ll all be right with liberals. Win-win.

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 11, 2014

      Wrong. Nothing is ever alright to liberals. But I do like applesauce.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

        Everything WRONG is right to conservatives. It was alright to create a Financial Meltdown no CON saw coming for 8 years and then it was alright that taxpayers bailed out the richest bankers who didn’t lose one lousy dime for their theft and greed for 8 Bush years. To CONS, lying to make Halliburton and Blackwater rich is RIGHT…you bet it is …too damn far right for morals and ethics much less those of us who aren’t crooks of the system like you CONS.

        Reply
    2. Daniel Max Ketter December 11, 2014

      We would be obeying the Geneva Convention is all

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

        The Geneva convention is a farce it was set up to dispel the fears of the foot soldier about being captured. It is only paid lip service except in the movies.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

          It’s a farce to men like you who are THE most blood thirsty vampires. Without war, you mental stability is akin to a psychotic narcissistic on the hunt for his next kill.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            Where do you live? I am thirsty. Never mind I don’t need a case of blood poisoning.

            Reply
  22. Whatmeworry December 11, 2014

    What utter nonsense… No Laws were broken these were enemy combatants not in uniform and could have been hung when they were caught

    Reply
    1. Daniel Max Ketter December 11, 2014

      I disagree wholeheartedly. These were POW’s and SHOULD HAVE been treated according to the Geneva Conventions instead of tortured at Guantanamo death camp

      Reply
      1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

        They were not POW’s. They were insurgents with criminal intent. They should have never been taken prisoner and many were not. In the comfort of your living room chair these opinions have no merit.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

          Actually, some were NOT…Remember back in 2008 when one of those who landed in Gitmo was a cab driver in Iraq? Do you just label everyone to your own specifications or does your psychiatrist help you with that?

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            EW you know nothing about nothing. You are just a babbling wrinkled old woman who has spent her whole life making bad judgment calls. Now your friends consist of a circle emotionally impaired old rug munchers. Your gender confusion will eventually drive them away. You will pass into old age with nothing more to keep you company than a thrift store dildo with dead batteries.

            Reply
        2. johninPCFL December 12, 2014

          Actually a report a few years ago detailed that over 600 of the 900+ prisoners we held were delivered to us by the warlords, and we PAID THE WARLORDS FOR THEM. Yes, Bush/Cheney bought prisoners from warlords, and the warlords didn’t have to provide any evidence, just claim they were “bad men”. Ooga-booga! Bad men!

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 13, 2014

            You read report WOW! Me to, Global Warming,Rising sea level, Bye Bye Polar bears, Moon landing fake, Grassy knoll, Bush engineered 911, The Bermuda triangle, Jesus in a sandwich, Some guy got killed brought himself back to life , The 72 virgin thing, The earth is really flat. There is some much stuff like that it could fill a Terra bite hard drive. You only have so many years. Go have some fun

            Reply
    2. The lucky one December 12, 2014

      So where were they supposed to get a uniform to wear while fighting against an invader.

      Reply
      1. Whatmeworry December 12, 2014

        The uniform shop could requisition them one

        Reply
        1. The lucky one December 12, 2014

          Or in many cases they could just use the ones we gave them when they were being paid to kill someone we termed the enemy of the moment.

          Reply
          1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            If you like them so much why don’t you move there?

            Reply
          2. The lucky one December 13, 2014

            Wow what an original thought. It’s not that I like them so much as I don’t like macho blowhards and fools. Unfortunately they are all over, can’t get away from them wherever you go so I’ll just stay where I am. I’ve never let punks or bullies drive me away no reason to start now.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 13, 2014

            What does someone say to your comment? Punks and bullies are things we encountered in grade school. What is the issue here are people who will destroy a building full of men women and children and then ask their god to reward them for their grand achievement. This is not a debate it is all out war. War is a three letter word describing the most horrible things people can think up to do to each other in the name of winning and pleasing their God.

            Reply
          4. The lucky one December 14, 2014

            No the 2 issues here are: Does torture yield useful info and is it morally justified? For me the answer is no to both questions. As for destroying buildings full of men, women and children our bombs, the smart and not so smart, have done plenty of that. Of course they weren’t Americans or even in most cases light skinned so who cares right?

            Reply
          5. hicusdicus December 14, 2014

            Morally Justified are just structured sounds made up for people at home in their easy chair with a glass of wine. Of course torture works. One, it give satisfaction to the one doing it . And it retrieves information. Water boarding is not really torture . It causes no real harm and once the recipient realizes this they can work through it. WB is a form of frightening , it is emotional stress. When a person is made to take an oath on the witness stand under threat of perjury and jail that is a very mild form of emotionally frightening a person. Confess or take a plea bargain or spend life with out parole in prison is a more intense form of torture. Torture is one thing one can do when people close to you are in lethal jeopardy. Man has at least four basic genetic instincts: Sex, pleasure. Hatred pain. It started with a bite out of an apple and never looked back. Cut off a man from his nookie and he will slowly burn off your balls. Have a happy mythical holiday and remember Jesus was tortured to death.

            Reply
          6. The lucky one December 14, 2014

            “Water boarding is not really torture . It causes no real harm” An amazingly ignorant statement, even for you.

            “Of course torture works. One, it give satisfaction to the one doing it” No one has produced any evidence yet that torture produces reliable useful info but I think you’re on to something there. Only I don’t think it’s satisfying for the one doing it. That particular emotion would be with the pompous asses like Bush and Cheney who order or okay it and the arm chair generals like yourself. I think many of those who are “just following orders” and doing the torture are lastingly scarred by the experience.
            The four basic emotional drives are fear, anger, hunger, sex. It takes religion and/or politics to turn them into hatred. Fear being the one that produces insane viewpoints like the ones that see torture as useful and justified.

            Reply
          7. hicusdicus December 15, 2014

            That’s my story if you don’t like it make up your own. No one cares what you think, right or wrong. So revel in it.I like most humans will do most anything to get what they want. So pretend you are you are seated safely up in academia so may look down and and shake your pompous finger at us moronic redneck chicken plucking midgets.

            Reply
          8. The lucky one December 15, 2014

            I agree on that. None of those in power care what any of us think unless we can write them a big bribe, uh I mean campaign contribution. I personally have nothing against rednecks, chicken pluckers or midgets but I am getting tired of morons.
            Apparently you like dogs so you can’t be all bad.

            Reply
          9. hicusdicus December 15, 2014

            Not according to [WhutHesaid] He seems to have a problem with his genetics and the shade of his epidermal layer. I have more empathy for animals than most people I have been around.. There are no morons on this site just ignorant biased people with no training in how to be politely rude.

            Reply
          10. Buzzi Butt December 17, 2014

            It always helps to define about what you are talking. Define torture. Ask a six year old, ask a Gulf war veteran, ask a senior living in a nursing home. Each will give you vastly different answers–even about torture of armed combatants.

            Reply
          11. The lucky one December 18, 2014

            “Torture is the act of deliberately inflicting severe physical or psychological pain and possibly injury to a person (or animal), usually to one who is physically restrained or otherwise under the torturer’s control or custody and unable to defend against what is being done to him or her.” Wiki
            Not claiming wiki as an authoritative source but that’s as good a general definition as any. Clearly any rational person would agree that waterboarding and forced rectal feeding are torture. There are two issues here even if you accept that there may be instances where it is justified. First off some of those tortured are guilty of nothing more than pissing someone off who had the CIA’s ear and could name them as a source of info. Secondly there has not been a shred of evidence presented that any useful info has been gained by torture that was not available otherwise.
            But maybe torture would be useful in getting Cheney to reveal all the evil acts he has done.

            Reply
          12. Buzzi Butt December 18, 2014

            It is not a given that any rational person thinks waterboarding is a torture. Rectal feeding is more of a humiliation or an embarrassment. Verbiage like severe or pain are relative not absolute terms. While we are pontificating over the ways of mankind, it is easy to be judgmental. In the real world, that luxury is not always the first thing on one’s mind. When confronted with the choice of life or death, ones values can change radically and quickly from those derived from a tranquil environment..

            Reply
          13. The lucky one December 19, 2014

            Yes possibly one could be rational and believe water
            boarding not to be a form of torture and forced rectal feeding to be merely “humiliating” but such a viewpoint displays a total lack of understanding of human physiology and how the nervous system works. Now if you are speaking from personal
            experience having endured either of these torture methods and are claiming they weren’t really that bad then I would give some weight to your view. Otherwise your belief is just another example of how easy it is to minimize or negate the experience of the “other”.
            The “life or death” situation you hypothesize is more likely found in a TV show or comic book than in the “real world”.

            Reply
          14. Buzzi Butt December 20, 2014

            You have of course, then, by your logic, experienced first hand torture such as water boarding or an extreme humiliation of some type. Otherwise your opinion has about as much weight as mine. I don’t condone brutal, inhumane, or torturous behavior–just shoot them instead. But we live in a world and deal with people that consider these kinds of behavior acceptable and have no problem using such harsh tactics at will on anyone-an enemy, a civilian, an animal if they think it will gain them some advantage.

            Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          More balaclavas and flip flops.

          Reply
      2. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

        No uniform, immediate execution. My father in law a tank commander with Patton told how American troops executed all

        military aged German men out of uniform after the battle of the bulge.

        Reply
        1. The lucky one December 12, 2014

          Maybe so but it was a war crime. Let me see if i understand your thinking. So if a man puts on a uniform and tries to kill you but you capture him you will treat him humanely but if he refuses to put on a uniform and does not try to kill you but is captured you will execute him.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker December 12, 2014

            Trying to figure out what hicusdicus means is like walking into a mental ward and trying to reason with the insane.

            Reply
          2. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            It’s a typo. It was supposed to be spelled hicsucsdics. He often makes the mistake of trying to blog while tea-bagging.

            Reply
          3. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            You could do it.

            Reply
          4. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

            So what? I would not capture people trying to kill me I would execute them on the spot. These were death head SS troops trying to hide. The same ones who murdered millions of Jews and other civilians. We won the war and the winner does as he pleases. War is not a game.

            Reply
          5. Buzzi Butt December 17, 2014

            You twisted that up purdy good. May you have better luck should you be the one facing an armed adversary, uniformed or not.

            Reply
          6. The lucky one December 18, 2014

            My point is that executing people merely because they are not wearing a uniform is barbaric and senseless.
            If I was facing armed adversaries on the field of battle I would hope that the intel my superiors were basing their strategy on was more reliable than that produced by torture which is notoriously unreliable.

            Reply
          7. Buzzi Butt December 18, 2014

            Again, the rules of war, to which you are objecting, clearly state the use of uniforms by combatants. Combatants fighting without any identifiable markings are considered spies or other nefarious characters. These type of combatants are hiding their ID solely for the purpose of gaining an advantage against those who fight by the rules. They care not if civilians are casualties of their tactics. ONe might think of them as cowardly–and I am sure you know how the military handles the coward issue. Why you think killing someone out of uniform is barbaric but acceptable for the uniformed soldier is barbaric.

            Reply
          8. The lucky one December 19, 2014

            “Rules of war”, really? When did congress declare war? So if your neighborhood was invaded by a foreign army you wouldn’t fight back unless the government first issued you a uniform?

            “Why you think killing someone out of uniform is barbaric but acceptable for the uniformed soldier is barbaric.” Wow, hard to see how you interpreted my statement to mean this.

            Reply
          9. Buzzi Butt December 20, 2014

            Rules of war are generally understood to be the Geneva Conventions. Of course, one can wonder if rules of war is really an oxymoron. A foreign army invading my neighborhood? If that were to actually happen, our government would, in all likelihood, not be functioning. A uniform has many forms-it can be something as simple as a colored scarf to the elaborate costumes that government armies wear. A combatant not willing to openingly identify his allegiance can be considered to be up to no good.

            Reply
      3. Whatmeworry December 12, 2014

        Hmmm 12 years?? I would think allay could devein one for them

        Reply
        1. Daniel Max Ketter December 12, 2014

          It’s disgusting this country cannot follow the Geneva Convention for pow’s for the last 12. I’m glad McCain had guts to break ranks

          Reply
        2. hicusdicus December 16, 2014

          Bed sheets, towels and camel hair shoes have gotten too expensive,. So now its balaclavas, flip flops and sun glasses.

          Reply
  23. Whatmeworry December 11, 2014

    What utter nonsense… Laws were broken these were enemy combatants
    in uniform and should not have been hung when they were caught

    Reply
    1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

      They had a uniform, a baklava over their face? You know like a bank robber.

      Reply
  24. Real Flavors December 12, 2014

    No blacks, no violence.

    Reply
  25. GraceAdams830 December 12, 2014

    I find it hard to believe that there is anybody that our national government would be justified in torturing. Foreigners are presumably prisoners of war and protected by the Geneva Convention. American citizens even when convicted of felonies should be protected by the prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment–or do we now consider some of these forms of torture “usual” punishment or not “cruel”?

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    1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

      Your grand daughter has been kidnapped you have 12 hours to find her or she gets buried alive. You have captured one of the kidnapers. What lengths would you go to, to bring her home alive? Next there is a large nuke hidden in an American city with a designated time to vaporize 1 to 2 million people. You have the guy who planted it. Now what? Ask the 911 victims relatives what they would do to get back their loved ones. Nothing is black and white. The weak will inherit an early death by violence.

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      1. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

        Speaking of weak, that was one of the most ridiculous posts I’ve seen out here in a while. Preschoolers have a better grasp of common sense and morals. Crawl back into your bigot-hole and take a break for a while, hicsucsdics. And keep your filthy paws away from Fido lest somebody send PETA after you.

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        1. hicusdicus December 12, 2014

          You need to go back and read your own posts. Peta. I rescue animals. Cats, dogs and water fowl that is my thing and Peta is even more despicable than you. I see your affirmative action schooling has completely failed you. Go ahead and sign up for welfare and carry it into your next generation. You don’t want to break the chain. You are not clever you are disgusting and not very bright..

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          1. WhutHeSaid December 12, 2014

            Nobody is buying your crap, and I have no doubt that your relationship with animals is the absolute furthest thing from rescue possible. You’re just a uniformly despised walking insult to Nature with no credibility, no integrity, and no style — not even bad style.

            You appear to believe that your drive-by racist sniping is witty and clever, but in reality it’s just boring or repulsive, and amazing as it may seem, occasionally manages to be both at the same time.

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        2. Buzzi Butt December 17, 2014

          You really think his post is ridiculous? Provide your solution to the scenarios hicusdicus proposed. That is your test of common sense and morals. The point that you missed completely, is that sometimes there are choices to be made when the outcome will be tragic regardless. The person with well developed common sense and decency will make the best choice for the most people involved, even if it means sacrificing himself or loved ones. You would rather hid behind slurs and insults than choose, which makes you a coward and worthless.

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          1. WhutHeSaid December 17, 2014

            Publicly chastised by a buzzard butt? That’s a new one on me, but I’m going to assume that if you can type (it must be a really smelly process) then you might also be able to read — so pay attention:

            My solution is this: Don’t invent fictional scenarios to try to excuse away crime. Nobody’s granddaughter was being threatened with live burial. No nuclear devices were hidden in American cities. Instead, what we had were people who weren’t necessarily guilty of anything — at least it wasn’t proven — who were captive and unable to defend themselves. They became victims of crime.

            Every criminal has an excuse for their crime(s). So what good are those excuses? Well, they are good for stories that the criminal will have to while away the time with fellow criminals while in prison, or to think about just before that noose snaps tight or the lethal injection steals away consciousness. That’s all the excuses are good for.

            We don’t allow criminals to avoid the responsibility of paying for their crimes based upon fabricated scenarios designed to elicit emotion. If fact, we don’t allow people to freely commit crimes just because somebody else actually committed a crime — even if they were themselves the victims of the very same people they are committing crimes against. The law will only excuse self defense of one’s own person or that of others if they are acting against the immediate and imminent threat of grave bodily injury or death. This does not include ‘maybe sometime in the future’ injury, ‘somebody from his/her neighborhood committed a crime’, or even ‘he/she committed a crime against me in the past’ scenarios.

            Let me give you an example: You are walking in the park, and a man robs you and shoots you. You survive the ordeal, and months later you run into the very same man in the very same park — but this time you are armed. Can you legally shoot him? No! Unless he is right then and there threatening you with grave bodily injury or death where you have a need to defend yourself, shooting him is a crime that will send YOU to prison — and rightly so. You are entitled to justice but not revenge.

            Torturing people is a despicable crime committed by vile and despicable cowards. People who commit such crimes deserve prison or even death. People who try to make excuses for crime (like you) are also worthless and despicable cowards. If we allowed people to commit crimes every time they had some fear or a fabricated, tear-jerking story (like hicsucsdics), then the entire world would be in a state of anarchy with the strongest abusing the weakest. That’s the whole reason we have laws in the first place.

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          2. Buzzi Butt December 18, 2014

            Slurs and verbosity as usual. Ever heard of brevity or a synopsis? This is an anonymous blog, not a scholarly forum of academic peers.

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          3. WhutHeSaid December 18, 2014

            This is a public anonymous blog, meaning that it’s not Buzzard Butt’s blog. Take that to mean that I’ll post as I see fit.

            Criminals and those who advocate crime will often interpret commentary on their behavior as ‘slurs’. That comes with the territory, so don’t complain.

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          4. Buzzi Butt December 20, 2014

            You are so funny. You don’t like a buzzard butt, but I have to read something written by a rabid rodent.You are lunch. Head for cover!

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        3. StubbornlyRational December 24, 2014

          That’s inane…just so you know…ADM (atomic demolition munitions) capable of destroying much of Manhattan, yet the size of a bowling bag, have existed since the 1960’s. And US intelligence has worked furiously on detection methods to combat them for decades. A crazy scenario? You’re the crazy one.

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          1. WhutHeSaid December 24, 2014

            You should be incarcerated in prison. Why aren’t you in prison where you should be — or are they letting you use a computer in the prison library?

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      2. GraceAdams830 December 18, 2014

        The preponderance of evidence is that torture is counter-productive as an interrogation technique. So why waste time on something that is counter-productive?

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        1. hicusdicus December 20, 2014

          Where do you come up with these comments? You are so wrong your comments could be defined as torture just to read them.

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          1. GraceAdams830 December 31, 2014

            What little I have managed to read about the report on torture, the torturers have admitted that they did NOT get any useful information from any of their torture.

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          2. StubbornlyRational December 31, 2014

            If all the history you read is Howard Zinn, you;ll end up knowing very little history.

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          3. GraceAdams830 January 2, 2015

            I suffered through one year each of World and American history in high school because it was required. I suffered through one semester of American history in college to meet a social studies distribution requirement. I got very little out of any of that. I have not read Howard Zinn–don’t want to read any history anyhow–it was too horrible in school.

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          4. Buzzi Butt January 8, 2015

            From George Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” and “Only the dead have seen the end of war.” You are as big a fool as one can be. Book educated, yet totally ignorant on the ways of life. It’s a good thing you didn’t have any kids. Knowledge is how we avoid the mistakes of the past to have a better future.

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          5. hicusdicus December 31, 2014

            You got this information from reading articles on the internet. The interne,t the worlds largest venue for liars. Maybe you should read a little about the Spanish inquisition. You might ask John McCain about his stay the Hanoi Hilton. Imagine your nipples and a cigar lighter. You would turn on your children.

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        2. StubbornlyRational December 24, 2014

          The preponderance of evidence? There is an old adage, “A naked man has few secrets — a flayed man none.”

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          1. GraceAdams830 December 31, 2014

            In practice–torture yields NOTHING BUT disinformation.

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          2. Buzzi Butt January 1, 2015

            The reason torture is still done is that does get results. It scares the bejezus out of the 99.999% of people that aren’t being tortured and for the most part don’t want to be. If someone fibs to avoid torture, guess what is going to happen to him? It won’t be pretty.

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          3. GraceAdams830 January 2, 2015

            The reason torture gets NOTHING BUT MISINFORMATION is that vast majority of victims of torture have NO true information to give to torturers. A victim of torture can NOT reveal information he never had to begin with.

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        3. Buzzi Butt January 1, 2015

          Well. to ignore the situation means 2 million people die along with your granddaughter. You can stand by and do nothing?

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          1. GraceAdams830 January 2, 2015

            I never had any child–so I can’t possibly have a grand-daughter. The world has way too many humans anyhow. 2 million would NOT be missed–the world would be better off without them.
            And I still say that torture is counter-productive. The Israelis gave up on torture because they found it a waste of time better sent on independent search for information from sources other than suspected terrorists.

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          2. Buzzi Butt January 8, 2015

            OK , you don’t have kids. Think of your granddaughter as a metaphor. You know what the Israelis are doing? You only know what you read in a news article. The Israelis, French, Russians, U.S.Aers and every other government does not tell all that they do. You have to get real. It would be nice to live in a world without torture, kids dieing of cancer, and drug cartels. But that is not going to happen. Humans are a contentious species. The sooner individuals are held responsible for their actions, the sooner we stop giving governments final say about what we do, the sooner we have peace and tranquility. Will this stop violence and bad things from happening? Of course not. But evil and crime won’t be able to hid behind the skirts of government protection either. I will have a choice on how to settle the matter.

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          3. GraceAdams830 January 8, 2015

            I have Asperger’s and just do NOT get people–I find them unfathomable–I get some ideas about people from reading what others say about people–but I can’t tell whether an individual is telling the truth or lying. That means I would not be able to tell useful intelligence from disinformation. Not be able to tell–whatever information I might get from torture would be useless– so why bother?

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          4. Buzzi Butt January 11, 2015

            Your opinion is just that, an viewpoint not necessarily supported by fact. A fact is a truism. Disinformation is rampant in these blogs, If you aren’t willing to find out the facts, to know all sides of the issue, how can you possibly make a meaningful comment or wise decision? Going by gut feeling, or what someone else tells you, puts at the same mind set as those murdering fanatics in France. You differ by having different moral and ethics standards.

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    2. jmprint December 12, 2014

      Only to Cheney and his regime.

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    3. StubbornlyRational December 24, 2014

      Grace, you have a terminal lack of imagination. For more than 45 years, there have been in existence “atomic demolition munitions” the size of a bowling bag that are capable of taking out half of midtown Manhattan.

      Suppose you discovered that one had been planted in an unkinown location in Manhattan, and you were absolutely certain you had the terrorist-bomber in custody.

      The bomb is going off in 3 hours. And millions of people will die because YOU, GraceAdams830, are hopelessly underendowed intellectually.

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      1. GraceAdams830 December 31, 2014

        It would be more constructive to evacuate Manhattan.

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        1. StubbornlyRational December 31, 2014

          Evacuate Manhattan in 3 hours? Your obvious inability to handle basic mathematical computations and logistics indicate you are well qualified for a position in the Obama administration

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          1. GraceAdams830 January 2, 2015

            With some effort, the subways and buses should be able to get at least as many humans OUT of Manhattan in 3 hours as they get into Manhattan in a normal morning rush hour–maybe not the whole population, but enough to be more constructive than trying to torture useful information out of a person who may or may not actually be a terrorist–who may or may not be the one responsible for planting the alleged bomb–who may or may not be better trained at confusing torturers with disinformation than the torturers are at torture as an interrogation method.