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Why Voter ID Isn’t Causing Mass Anger

Bloomberg View Memo Pad Politics

Why Voter ID Isn’t Causing Mass Anger


Oct. 28 (Bloomberg View) — The gloomiest reading about U.S. democracy I’ve seen for some time is New Yorker writer Jeffrey Toobin’s look at voting rights and the Supreme Court (via Ed Kilgore).

Toobin ends with a call for a new Freedom Summer. If Republican politicians make voting harder where they can, and the courts won’t stop it, then the only recourse is for citizens to do something:

… Voter-registration efforts need people — individuals willing to do the tedious work of persuading their fellow-citizens to make the effort to register and vote. Those who did so in 1964 risked their lives. Fortunately, that’s no longer necessary, but the effort still is, alas, half a century later. Regardless of the results of this year’s midterms, the need for this kind of effort will be great.

It’s a great thought. It’s also unlikely to happen. It was one thing for people to mobilize themselves against the apartheid regime of the South before the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act; it’s another to get people to recognize the injustice of making voting inconvenient for selected groups of voters. That’s what makes the new wave of restrictions so insidious.

Jim Crow was ended primarily by blacks and their allies who rose up, organized and took action. But they were helped by a lot of voters who saw an obvious injustice and told politicians to take the side of those who were prevented from voting. The new “targeted inconvenience” laws just don’t feel like a big deal for those who aren’t targeted.* If you’ve had a driver’s license since you turned 16, it seems as if everyone has one, or at least could go get one without much trouble. Where’s the injustice in that, if a license is all that’s required to register to vote?

Yet the injustice in fashioning rules and practices that make it easier for some to vote than others is real. These range from requiring a photo ID to cutting back voting hours and narrowing the windows for voter registration.

After all, some people don’t have an ID; not everyone drives a car, for example. And some states are rather selective in which IDs count (notoriously, Texas allows concealed-handgun licenses but not school IDs issued by Texas state colleges). Or consider polling hours. It may not be an obvious injustice if voting hours are tilted toward making it easier for one party’s voters and harder for the other’s, but it’s an injustice all the same.**

Some Republicans have come to believe voting should be reserved for a select group. But plenty of other Republicans (and independents and quite a few Democrats), while strong believers in democracy and voting rights, just don’t see where the harm is in some restrictions. And while few if any of these measures are aimed at combating fraud, it’s a plausible excuse and one that isn’t inherently bigoted or anti-democratic. In other words, the issue isn’t that a subset of people want bigoted or discriminatory voting rules. It’s that even those who want everyone to vote aren’t likely to oppose some registration limits or any of the other weapons Republicans are deploying to keep people away from the polls. And they aren’t likely to make opposing them a priority for the politicians they elect.

About the only good news in this is that the campaign to carry out targeted-inconvenience rules is probably self-limiting; the more it appears that a law is an injustice, the more likely it will produce a strong reaction.

And who knows? Perhaps calls for a Freedom Summer dedicated to getting people to the polls can be successful. The incentives are stacked against it, but the nature of political action is that citizens can beat even a rigged game. I just wouldn’t bet on it.

* “Inconvenience” includes financial considerations — for example, if you have to travel some distance to get a photo ID, or have to miss work to vote. Basically, the rule changes raise the cost (in money, time or effort) of voting. That is bad enough, but they also raise the costs unequally.

** For example, Republicans in some states, finding that blacks tended to vote on Sundays after church, sought to eliminate weekends from early voting.

Photo: Kelley Minars via Flickr

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  1. Independent1 October 31, 2014

    It’s unfortunate, that what was once an honest, competitive political party, has been turned into a party that is now willing to be as dishonest and sleazy in the way it operates as is humanly possible. As long as in the end, they win.

    The GOP is willing to do whatever it takes to win an election, no matter how much its candidates have to lie and distort the truth, and the party operatives have to cheat on or before election day in every way they can dream up; be it gerrymander the voting districts, or passing laws to suppress the votes of especially minority groups and the elderly, or even break the law if that’s what’s needed to win (mislead people in voting in a number of ways; throw away ballots that have been fraudulently taken; even gimmick voting machines to miscount the votes).

    How corrupt one has to be matters not, even according to Mitt Romney, flat out lying is okay, as long as long as it’s related to POLITITICS!!!

    1. TheSkalawag929 November 1, 2014

      Actually lying should not be acceptable under any circumstances.

      1. Independent1 November 1, 2014

        I agree completely. But that unAmerican of unAmericans, Mitt Romney apparently doesn’t disagree. He uttered words similar to what I quoted above during one of the pre election Republican debates in response to an accusation from Newt Gingrich that a Super Pac supporting Mitt was running lying ads about him prior to the nominations. What’s even more telling, is that few if any in the predominately Republican audience batted an eye or indicated any disagreement – as if Republicans will accept lying coming from their political representatives and even know that their legislative representatives and president LIE!!!. How terribly sad and wrong that is!!!

        1. hicusdicus November 1, 2014

          So sad so wrong boo hoo.

          1. Independent1 November 1, 2014

            It is sad that a political party will stoop to the absolute lows that the GOP has lowered itself to.

          2. hicusdicus November 2, 2014

            Do you truly believe that there is any difference between the two parties? They are average people who have grown arrogant with power and exposed to big easy money.

          3. Independent1 November 2, 2014

            I’m not suggesting that the Dems are saints, but over the past 50 years, the GOP has taken being corrupt and just outright nefarious to a whole new level.

            Take a look at some of what I list below, and try to come up with anything the Dems have done over the past 50 years that even come close to how devious the Republicans have been:

            1) The last time a Dem president was threatened for impeachment for actually being a crook (remember Watergate).

            2) The last time a Democrat presidential candidate
            committed treason by negotiating with an enemy to sabotage peace talks when theU.S. was at war (think of Vietnam and Nixon).

            3) The last time a Dem president negotiated with the enemy (Iran Ayatollahs) to not release hostages they were holding until he was elected president (remember Iran/Contrawith even more nefarious dealings than just hostage negotiations and I didn’t even point out the crooked dealings for
            guns with the Contras)

            4) The last time a Dem president agreed to help the tyrant of another country by supplying him with help and support in build and using chemical weapons against an enemy; actions banned by international law (think Reagan and Saddam and Iraq’s war against Iran)

            5) The last time a Dem president put hundreds of
            American soldiers in harms way during peacetime edicting that they couldn’t carry loaded weapons which was part of the reason 241 of them(Marines) ended up dying in their sleep because guards couldn’t stop the terrorist’s truck from entering the compound because their weapons weren’t loaded.

            The last time a Dem administration refused to
            allow the CIA and FBI to prevent an attack on the homeland after 7 clear cut warnings that an attack was imminent because they wanted to use that attack as an excuse for starting a war (remember
            9/11 which ended up killing 3,000 Americans )

            7) The last time a Dem president deliberately hoodwinked a union into calling an illegal strike (the Air Traffic Controllers Union), just so he could then summarily fire them all and bust the union. Then following that up by appointing 2 known union haters to the NRLB just so he could start the demise of unions in America (just like he hoodwinked the Screen Actors Guild into electing him president of their union until they discovered that he hated unions).

            8) The last time a Dem administration started an
            unwarranted/unjustified war based on months of lies, distortions of the truth and contrived facts, just so they could award no-bid contracts to their rich
            buddies in companies associated with running/supporting a war – (remember Iraq which ended up killing over 4,000 Americans and ended up with Billions of taxpayer money that magically disappeared or went to projects that were never even started.)

            9) The last time a Dem administration refused to
            expand health care to the poor, just so they can cut budgets allowing the wealthy to keep more money in their greedy little pockets, even though several organizations have published projections that doing so will end up with as many as 17,000 people dying premature deaths in 2014.

            10) The last time a Dem administration even
            suggested using torture against international law to get information from anyone, including terrorists

            11) The last time the Democratic party held a
            meeting on the day a president was inaugurated to plan how they would mount and follow through for now six years with unprecedented actions to sabotage not only the U.S. economy but any and everything that a sitting president would attempt to do to pull America out of the greatest recession it has experienced since the Big Depression.

            12) The last time a Democrat administration
            deliberately kept billions of dollars outside the budget just so they could run up America’s debts even further on a credit card by making it harder for Congress to keep track of just how much spending the administration was actually doing:
            resulting in Reagan and the 2 Bushes being responsible for at least 15 trillion of America’s 17+ trillion in debt. (at least Reagan and the 2 Bushes did this in spades. Neither Clinton nor Obama followed the practice).

          4. hicusdicus November 2, 2014

            Both parties are equal when it comes to fleecing the treasury and scamming the citizens.. Your opinions and that is all they are, are extremely bias. People on gov. payrolls do not fret about the folks who are not on gov. payrolls. You really need to hold back on your criticism and start looking at the reality of our government. That is if you really want to bring it back in line with the constitution. If it does not happen soon we will have no bill of rights. I have no relatives and I am to old to care which gives me a neutral prospective . What you and I think means naught.

          5. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

            Not surprising you have no problem with lying.

          6. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            If I can’t lie to you why should I talk to you?

    2. charleo1 November 1, 2014

      Cheating, lying, dumping votes, intentional disenfranchisement, firing teachers, up ending public education, busting unions, and sending jobs to Communist China. Prolonging the deepest recession in 80 years, while imposing as much financial pain on as many of the Middle Class, and working poor as possible. And lending them as little relief as possible, whatever that little relief might be. Injecting fear, and mistrust, into as much of the population as possible. By asserting things so outrageous, the disbelief is that any person could utter such a thing, if it were not true. How many Ebola infected terrorists must be pouring across the unguarded border, each day? About the number of rounds of golf the President plays each day, Or the number of illegal aliens being bussed across the border to vote! All too many to count, I’ll send in the National Guard, by God. One besieged Governor, and great Texan Patriot declares. Grab your guns! Someone hoist Old Glory!. There’s a damn Liberal in the White House, and we are all under attack! Vote for us, or you’re all gonna die!!!!

      1. Independent1 November 1, 2014

        What a totally sad example many Republican governors and legislators and even GOP supporters are; as you point out, many of them willfully mislead the American people, including their own constituents with nothing more than fear mongering.

        All of it supposedly in the name of politics, which is really nothing more than the GOP’s cover-up for setting up the suckers so they can filch as much of taxpayer money as we’ll let them get away with: via tax cuts for the wealthiest, unwarranted subsidies to corporations already making billions, starting wars to funnel money via no-bid contracts to favored defense industry companies, and whatever other ways they can think of to drain us taxpayers pocketbooks.

        I still contend that the GOP is no different than the Italian Mafia; in fact they’re worse. At least Italians recognize their Mafia as crooks – they don’t pretend to be legit. The GOP on the other hand, hides behind the facade of being a political organization, hoodwinking the American public into believing that they’re doing things to help them, while all the while, they’re doing everything they can to rob them of as much of their hard earned money as possible.

        1. hicusdicus November 1, 2014

          Yes sir, we need to get rid of those evil republicans and just have a democratic party. One party is all we need. Some of the most powerful people the world has ever known ruled just fine under one party. Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, Mao, Tojo, Mohammad and many more. Yeah, just one big party. Fun,Fun,Fun.

          1. Independent1 November 1, 2014

            What does that have to do with the fact that a sizable portion of the GOP has become absolutely corrupt?? No one wants a one party system but that doesn’t change the fact that the degree to which the GOP has collapsed is a travesty!!! You’re apparently too young to remember what the GOP was like before Nixon. it was a much different party.

          2. hicusdicus November 2, 2014

            How does that make it any different from the democratic party. All of them to some degree are corrupt and I don’t believe by design. Its what has to be done to take care of business. What ever is going on has passed the point of no return. I am too old to care so enjoy yourself.

          3. Independent1 November 2, 2014

            Sorry, I totally disagree. Republicans have taken being corrupt and outright scumbags to a whole new level. I gave you a list that proves that in a response to one of your other comments.

            Let me know when you can come up with some nefarious dealings of the Dems over the past 50 years that even comes close to hat I’ve listed for the Republicans (and I’m not even going to consider any of the fake scandals the GOP has mounted against Clinton and Obama).

          4. hicusdicus November 2, 2014

            You and a whole lot of people with your mind set will be the reason that some time in the future, Americans will be using prayer rugs or eating with chop sticks. Remember what pres. Johnson said when he started the great society. ” we will have these N***** voting for the democrats for the next hundred years. The black people are being screwed over worse than during slavery, everything considered. If you like the way things are going now you are going to love the future.

  2. bckrd1 November 1, 2014

    Well I for one am enraged over what is happening.

    1. TheSkalawag929 November 1, 2014

      Enraged enough to do what?

      1. hicusdicus November 1, 2014

        To post a comment on the internet and tell them how the cow eats the cabbage.

    2. Faraday_Cat November 3, 2014

      Reminds me of my favorite bumper sticker from the Bush years: “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

  3. Dominick Vila November 1, 2014

    The influence of money in American politics, the deliberate efforts that are being made to make it as difficult as possible for some segments of our population to vote, the use of excuses such as pregnant chads to select a president who lost the popular vote, and other such tactics make a mockery of our Constitution and our claim of being champions of freedom and democracy. Perhaps the latter such be qualified with something like “as long as you are a member of the upper class, the dominant ethnicity, and have enough money to buy government officials and influence the outcome of elections.
    I support the use of a national ID, similar to what most countries use. It should be issued free of charge to every citizens, and having one should be mandatory. I also support banning private donations to political parties, and using public funds, distributed in equal amounts to the candidates of all major parties. I believe we would benefit from the emergence of a third, or fourth, party that represents the interests and values of mainstream Americans, instead of those who support the fringes of our political spectrum.
    Last, but not least, we should limit the length of our political campaigns, and do whatever is needed to encourage ALL Americans to exercise our right to vote.

    1. hicusdicus November 1, 2014

      dream on.

    2. Billie November 3, 2014

      Limit campaigns? I wish. I’ll be so glad when this election is over.

  4. Jack Hughes November 1, 2014

    It’s not just registering to vote. Those registrations must actually be entered onto the voter rolls by partisan election officials.

    As we’ve seen in Republican-controlled jurisdictions, voter registration applications derived from mass-registration drives simply wind-up in the dumpster. This criminal vote-suppression tactic can only be prevented by aggressive oversight and enforcement by the Justice Department.

    1. Allan Richardson November 1, 2014

      Maybe the Voting Rights Act should be strengthened by imposing CRIMINAL penalties against officials who commit these acts, and retroactive NULLIFICATION OF ELECTION of candidates who won BECAUSE of them.

      1. charleo1 November 1, 2014

        You know Allen, like the fellow said. Do all the voting you want, but let me do the counting. And once again, the refuge for bigots, creationists, polluters, tax dodgers, and politicians that don’t want to take a controversial stand, or just old farts who don’t want to pay for using public lands, are the proponents for States Rights. One of these fine days, people are going to wake up and realize, there’s a big well funded contingent out there, that’s doing all kinds of things to make sure their vote, that’s if they are allowed to cast it, is as meaningless as possible. Right now, as it stands, the only reason we know our vote still counts for something. Is the all the effort they are going to, to make sure it’s as hard, or inconvenient to vote, as they can think of to make it. And, if we think they will be satisfied with simply limiting the vote by closing polls, creating long lines, or making a certain, State issue, ID a requirement. We’re kidding ourselves there too. What’s more, if we the people are expecting Congress, or the Supreme Court, to come riding in and protect us from being shut out of the process, our elections rigged, and our say in whatever the government does in our name, silenced. I’m afraid we’re all going to be deeply disappointed there as well.
        If speech can be money, and corporation can be people. Then, as the thinking goes. Why does a democracy… excuse me. They’ll tell you, it’s not a democracy, but a Republic. So,
        why would a Republic need all us people having a vote at all?

        1. hicusdicus November 1, 2014

          You really don’t know the difference between a republic and a democracy? You don’t want to live under a true democracy.

          1. charleo1 November 1, 2014

            The difference is common knowledge. But it has also been a common practice going back to the founding, to refer to our representative form of gov. in a general way, as a democracy. I believe all our Presidents have done so. As has jurists, poets, et.al in the vernacular. It’s not been until just recently, the Right has taken a curious interest in pointing out that we are not in fact a democracy, but a republic. Usually in defense of their stance against something they do want the gov. to control. Like marriage equality Or if I point out, that 90% of Americans are in favor of background checks for all gun purchases. Or, that closing polling stations near neighborhoods likely to lean towards Democratic candidates, is unfair, or undemocratic. Well, they’ll correct me, and say, “We’re a Republic!” Even as they lambast judges, they claim are, “ruling from the bench,” When they throw out majority referendums, that serve to abrogate the Civil Rights of minorities, as un-Constitutional. How can one judge, they demand to know, overrule the will of the majority It’s Liberal Communism! I know the difference between a Republic, and a Democracy. Do they?

          2. hicusdicus November 2, 2014

            My comprehension level is way to low to follow you, but I am sure you are correct. I was led to believe that we ruled through a democratic constitutional republic. If the majority ruled that everyone had to smoke a pack of cigarettes daily I would not do it. That’s how this country got started. The English King was the majority.

          3. Faraday_Cat November 3, 2014

            We are a democratic republic, not one or the other…many are represented by few (republic), but those few are elected by majority (democracy). It’s a mixture of both, and until the recent crop of obstructionist republicans, worked quite well.

          4. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            Obstructionist Republicans? I am not politically affiliated with any party. But you sure lost me on the Republican Obstructionist thing. All we need is just one party. Lets dump the Republicans. I personally think both party’s are a train wreck and it won’t matter who rules. Nothing significant will change. Neither party wants to give the power back to the people. They like the status quo. I have made myself government proof so you go ahead and have at it.

          5. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

            You forgot that Nazi Party card.

          6. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            Try to stay in the present tense.

      2. joe schmo November 2, 2014

        Well, Allan, that’s the first common sense idea that you have mentioned since I have been posting here…..

      3. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

        See! you think like us crazies. You better be careful you could get your liberal license revoked.

        1. Allan Richardson November 5, 2014

          Funny, I thought that WAS a liberal position; in fact, so liberal that no politician would touch it, because even the ones who do NOT cheat are afraid of the possibility of being framed by opponents, and with RETROACTIVE “de-election” no law would be safe from being retroactively “de-enacting.”

          But TALKING about this principle brings up the lax way we tend to think about election cheating. If the NFL failed to enforce the rules properly on the field, and an egregious error which was missed in real time was discovered later, the outcome of a game could be changed. But if we, the voters, CONDONE cheating because it helps OUR side, the integrity of the process is in jeopardy.

          I’m glad to see a “crazy” say something reasonable.

          1. hicusdicus November 5, 2014

            I am not a liberal or a right winger neither a dem or rep. I like to think of my self as an American and I would like to vote for the people who follow the constitution and bill of rights when governing. But that does not seem to be the way it is. We are given choices by people who really don’t care who wins as long as their meal ticket is not infringed upon. Why is it that elections can be determined by the amount of money that is contributed. Until the election process is changed from who has the most money to who are the best statesmen, America is going to keep sliding downhill until one day the great experiment for the people by the people is over. I am a gun owner not a gun enthusiast. I have it for the people who want to take something of mine without compensating me. When the people in power take my gun the next thing they will come for is my way of life. When they take mine they will take yours. When the people governing the people no longer fear the people everything will up for grabs. I want to keep what is mine and you to be able to keep what is yours. If we work together it can happen.

    2. kenndeb November 2, 2014

      The only thing that the current justice department enforces is anything that furthers the liberal agenda, or anything that pits whites against blacks. We have a racist as AG and POTUS. Everyone has to have an ID. You have to have an ID to collect on welfare. You have to have an ID to buy a firearm. You have to have an ID to buy beer or smokes. You have to have an ID to get medical care. BUT liberals do not want an ID for voting? I do agree that that requiring an ID would throw a wrench into all the voter fraud that the democrats DEPEND on for winning any election.

      1. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

        Voting laws are state laws, not under the justice department. Ever heard of states rights. This is one. I have a question for you, do you support the 15th and 19th amendments?

      2. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

        Amen. Well said.

        1. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

          Naturally. Of course the Dems couldn’t possibly win elections fairly when running against people like you.

        2. kenndeb November 5, 2014

          Now the Congress is red, we may have a chance of saving our country.

      3. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

        Very good. Again, the rabid racist calling the other side racist to hide or excuse his own.

      4. BillP November 4, 2014

        You keep repeating the same lies over and over. You don’t need an ID to buy beer or smokes in New York where you live. I have bought beer for over 30 years and had to provide proof of age only when I young. As for voter fraud how many case have actually been tried.? In Texas 2 cases have been prosecuted in over 20 million votes. In North Carolina research showed that there were 15,750 people who voted in NC that someone wit the same name and birthday voted in another state. When they added the last 4 digits of the Social Security number the number dropped over “97%” to 765. Even then that is not proof of voter fraud, as the last 4 SS digits are not unique (there are almost 99,000 people who could have the same last 44 SS digits. In Indiana in 2012 there was the grand total of 1 woman who mailed an absentee ballot and voted on election day. So this claim to widespread voter is just another Conservative/Republican lie. On the other hand voter suppression is taking place in Georgia where 20,000 voter registration forms weren’t processed so these people are not eligible to vote this time. Guess who that favors.

        1. kenndeb November 4, 2014

          You really like to call others liars, when, in fact, they are not. I have to show my ID many times when I buy tobacco or booze. I always find it somewhat irritating seeing it is obvious that I am well over 21. Kwik fills, stop and shops are the worst. I need to show Id when I buy ammo or a firearm also. You dems like to say how there is no voter fraud, even when there are actual videos of poll workers encouraging people to vote in different states, or where to find discarded mail in ballots to fill our and send in. Today will hopefully put a stop to the liberal policies and agenda that is killing our country. VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS. I have already posted links to a couple voter fraud vids for you to watch.

          1. BillP November 6, 2014

            Ken you really need to do a reality check. You have been calling people liars on this site from the 1st post I read from you. You have called President Obama a liar and you did the same thing with all Liberals (that amounts to millions of liars according to you). I buy beer in supermarkets, distributers and minimarts all the time and have never had to show any ID.
            Here you go again claiming something without any proof, where are the videos, are they shown in their entirety or are they cut to fit the narrative. If they are done by James O’Keefe then they have been cut to show what he wanted to show. He has been caught trying to create fraud like scenarios, he was exposed in Colorado in October 2014 and this wasn’t the 1st time he was caught.

          2. kenndeb November 6, 2014

            Aren’t you special. Even though it is obvious that someone is over 21, many, many places still require you show an ID. Same for tobacco products. Now, there are also many places that do not, unless you look to be underage, but there are also bars that let underage people into their establishments.
            The Emperor IS a pathological liar and fraud. If you weren’t so far up his butt, you would recognize that.

          3. BillP November 7, 2014

            Ken all you do is write blah, blah, blah. You keep repeating these misinformation about having to show ID. Your statement “many places still require you show an ID. Same for tobacco products. Now, there are also many places that do not, unless you look to be underage, but there are also bars that let underage people into their establishments.” You are rambling on and on with this, we are not talking about bars or whether they allow underage drinking. This has always happened. I have not been ask for ID when I buy beer or alcohol in many years.
            Ooh Ken it’s impressive when you tell me I’m so far up the President’s butt. It just show the level of your intellectual writing. Normally I might have been offended but coming from you I know that this is the highest level you can achieved.

          4. kenndeb November 7, 2014

            You seem to live in the NYC area. Try buying beer at Stop and Shop. They ALWAYS ask for ID. You don’t want to hear anything true. You have been too brainwashed to see the truth. Yes, all I see from liberals are lies, right along with everything the Emperor says, all lies/.

          5. BillP November 7, 2014

            Actually I live a little outside of the city. I shop at Stop and Shop at least once a week and I have bought beer there without EVER being asked for ID. I also buy beer at a distributor without ID and buy win at liquor store without ID. There you go again calling all Liberals liars, you really are a paranoid little fool. Have you stopped taking your meds, loser.
            Try arguing with facts and not your juvenile opinions.

        2. kenndeb November 5, 2014

          No snappy comeback with more fabrications? I really hate called a liar when I do not lie, yet you seem to continuously fabricate near everything. Seeing I do live in NYS, I know what I have to show ID for, and apparently you do not.

          1. BillP November 6, 2014

            Why don’t you practice what you preach, you continually call “all” Liberals liars. Your link to the voter fraud issue doesn’t explain the methodology of their research, how did they identify certain voters as illegal aliens and how did they determine who they voted for. An exit poll survey, I can see that “pardon me but are you an illegal alien, did you just vote and who did you vote for. You read something on a right wing website and don’t question it.

  5. KDJ54 November 1, 2014

    I agree wholeheartedly with this article. If you read the editorial pages at a newspaper like the New York Times, where the opinion writer is writing with regard to water restriction, it’s always interesting to see the number of individuals who believe that the necessity of showing identification is not a burden. We have been brainwashed to believe that it is nothing of an inconvenience and that anyone should be able to get identification in order to vote. However, if one person is disenfranchised because of these laws, that is one person too many. We need to liberalize the ability to cast one’s vote rather than seeking means to restrict it.

    1. Allan Richardson November 1, 2014

      Finally, we have an analogy to the “innocent until proven guilty” and “double jeopardy” provisions in the justice system! Even though they may THINK it, few Americans would SAY that a justice system that punishes many innocent people just to make sure not one guilty person goes free would be fair (unless the innocent ones are “those” people who are “all bad” anyway). Should we incorporate that “guilty until proven innocent” philosophy in elections? Apparently, the right figures that the right of “those” people to vote is fair game, as long as they can be sure that not one ineligible voter gets to cast a ballot.

      There have even been noises from some right wingers that voting should have an explicitly FINANCIAL qualification; some say only people who pay income taxes should vote, because the “takers” don’t have any “skin in the game.” This ignores the fact that overall, the poor pay the highest percentage of their incomes in taxes of all kinds of any income bracket (sales taxes, their landlord’s property taxes, various fees, etc.), of course, but some are doubling down by saying you should have to be a home OWNER (or own some real estate, even if you choose to rent your residence) in order to vote, as it was in the first 50 years of our history in many states. This would mean that middle class voters could be disenfranchised by their BANKS choosing to foreclose!

      1. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

        You know there are a lot of inconveniences in life and most people get through them to survive. Having a stable democratic republic is the corner stone for a good life. Getting voter ID should be right up there at the top. If one finds it too inconvenient it is another way of saying one does not care enough to participate in their future. No ID no drivers license, medical care, bank account, tax filing, licensing of any kind, no employment or welfare or EBT card or any of the free government trough feeding. No ID no vote. One has to have ID to go to prison or end up on death row..

        1. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

          Medical Care cards, bank cards, welfare cards, EBT cards student ID’s and most other IDs don’t count to vote. It must be a state issued picture ID card or drivers license from the state DMV. You must have your birth certificate to get it, They are trying to make it as inconvenient as possible for the poor and elderly. Defend the 2nd amendment but throw out the 15th.

          1. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            You have completely missed the point. Who is THEY? I am talking about individual responsibility. All ID starts somewhere with a birth certificate. I had to have one to start primary school. It seems like every thing I do I have to display ID and it all started way back when my mother had to show proper ID to prove I was her child. If a person does not have the where with all to acquire proper ID they have no business helping select who governs us. The requirement of all citizens is to follow the law. If they don’t follow they don’t play.

          2. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            I haven’t had to show my birth certificate in 45 years. My uncle never had one and he got a passport. Now I did help my son in law get his. Never did have to show any ID for that, just paid $10. On the other hand the poll workers were vote greet most people my name.

          3. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            I just check and the rate is up to $20 and takes two weeks in PA no ID needed. The o only $27 more I can have a photo ID that is good for 4 years.

          4. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            I agree with you. You have done the research. $ 47.00 that amount won’t fill up my gas tank. I think that if someone does not want to spend $47.00 to vote for how they are governed they can live with the consequences.

          5. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            Well it may not be that simple. You do need to know where you were born, date, parents full names, birth name. When we got my son in laws birth certificate it took some work because there was no one he could ask and he didn’t know his birth place. He believed it was in Pa. but was wrong on he city and county.

          6. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            My grand father who lived in Manchester England went to catch a boat for Australia.Iit had sailed so he caught the next boat a few hours latter and it went to America. You don’t have be genius to see where this went. This all happened around 1870. My fathers family had nine kids and my mother was oldest of 19 kids. Both families were immigrants. I can assure you there was a lot of muddled pencil and paper work. But now days things have changed. My wife’s family was here before we were a country and a number of them fought the English. She has piles of paper work to back it up. Her dad fought in the battle of the bulge and her grandfather was pilot in WW 1. A bunch of her family fought in the civil war, Vietnam. I guess you could say we are Americans. Her Dad now deceased Was a retired rocket scientist. So much for our loyalties.

          7. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            My great grandfather on my mothers side came over from Sweden in the mid 1800’s the rest go back to before the revolution. A lot of members of the DAR. I had a bunch in the civil war. My Dads father was a blacksmith and good republican who spent years on the town counsel , hated FDR. Uncle was a JP, and my cousin sits on his local counsel, all good republicans. I was ward chairman in my local republican party. I leaned lot about how the party worked. I’m not impressed. There’s to much coming from the top and not enough going up from the bottom. Add in the Tea Party crazies and couldn’t take it anymore. One thing I learned was just how incompetent the people who run our government truly are. The people that are afraid of the government really have nothing to fear

          8. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            I agree with one exception. Everyone should fear their government, that is the only way to keep it in line. With the advent of political chat lines I soon realized that only well timed miracles has kept us going this long. Rep or demo we are completely out of miracles. The thousands of comments I have read on political chat lines leaves me with little hope for a good future.

          9. bobnstuff November 4, 2014

            I feel the government should fear us, the voters. With out the support of us they are nothing. Laws only work if enough people support them and every election is a revolution. I have great faith in mankind. Most people still want to do the right thing. The news sells gloom and doom and on line people say crazy stuff that half the time even they don’t believe. Our country is still the greatest in the world and that will not change soon no matter who is elected. Over time good always wins, even if it takes time.

          10. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

            Yeah. Obviously your loyalties are to preserving white and wealthy privilege at all costs.

          11. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            I take it that you are not white and are very unhappy about it.

          12. Sand_Cat November 4, 2014

            Actually – obviously unlike you – I don’t choose my political philosophy based on what I think will most benefit me personally, though I do hope – probably in vain – to live in a better society than we have now. That seems to be a common failing among you conservatives: you’re constantly assuming that we are as selfish, malicious, and dishonest as you, and that we couldn’t possibly support a party unless we expect to reap giveaways in abundance.
            In fact, I belong to the currently-favored race, or at least the one the GOP wishes to keep in control of everyone else. Happy to disappoint you.

          13. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            What currently favored race are you in? I would like to check the odds and wager a bet.

          14. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            I can’t even remember the last time I needed one. Now days everything is so computerized one can get verified in a heart beat. The days of no ID are gone and if you don’t have one you are going to have problems. I don’t care if a few thousand citizens who are too encumbered to get ID can’t vote. Its a whole lot better than 17 million illegal aliens getting to vote with no ID. When you finally lose your country to an ethnic minority who gained power through illegal voting and emotionally uninformed citizens you will see the light. I have lived in third world countries and you do not want this to happen.

          15. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            It would be hard for 17 million illegal aliens to vote since there are only 11 million in the US. Just were did that number come from? Also even though I think this is a made up problem I will point out that there are fake ID’s. Do you have a lot of illegal lien’s where you live? Are the people that man your polling place incompetent? Is your local election officials that bad? If you answered yes to any of those questions you had better become a poll watcher.

          16. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            Did you count them? I have heard 17 to 20 million. Don’t go to San Antonio or Houston if you can’t speak Spanish. I live in the Ozarks in the woods surrounded by goat ropers and they are all citizens. No respectable illegal alien would live here. We came here by design after living in Houston for 17 years. We spent 4 years living in a motor home and traveled over 300000 miles looking for a place to spend the rest of our lives. This is where we chose. My wife was a VP at a major oil co and saw major problems coming and decided to get to and area with a sparse population. If she was wrong it does not matter we love it here. We are setting up to go off the grid if electricity becomes too expensive. I guess you could say we are part of the evil prep-per group. We are making ourselves as government proof as we can.

          17. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            The number has been dropping for the last few years, at one time there were over 22 million but things have changed, more border guards less jobs and more jobs at home. We didn’t have a big Hispanic population in Pittsburgh, I run into more Russians. I still haven’t figured out how illegal alien can vote. In my state you must be registered a month before the election. When you vote they check your registration against a list with your signature. You must sign your name and then they check to see if it matches. On top of that the poll workers know most everybody by name.

          18. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            Maybe where you live but your not in San Antonio or Houston. Remember the Lesbian Mayor who tried get the pastors to submit their sermons for approval or go to jail. She ain’t a Republican. How is that for constitutional interpretation?

          19. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            I missed that one, doesn’t sound like any of the lesbians I know. I do know one gay republican a very confused young man.

          20. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            Yah, I went and looked it up. I just proves that there crazy lesbians. I don’t think she represents the guy community, at least the ones I know.

          21. DAVE in VA November 3, 2014

            I can careless about her being a lesbian. What she did was so wrong on so many levels.

          22. bobnstuff November 3, 2014

            Sometimes I think there must be something in the water down there. Wrong isn’t even close to it. What I can’t understand is why anyone in her government went along with it.

          23. BillP November 4, 2014

            In New York State the NYS voter registration form lists the following: We’ll try to check your identity before Election

            Day, through the DMV number (driver’s license
            number or non-driver ID number), or the last
            four digits of your social security number
            which you’ll fill in below.

            If you do not have a DMV or social security
            number, you may use a valid photo ID, a current
            utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government
            check or some other government document that
            shows your name and address. You may include a
            copy of one of those types of ID with this form—
            be sure to tape the sides of the form closed.

            If we are unable to verify your identity before
            Election Day, you will be asked for ID when
            you vote for the first time.
            I have lived in my current home for 17 years and have voted in every election, not once have I had to provide any type of ID proof. All I had to do was sign my name. This faux voter fraud issue has been run into the ground by the right wing without ever offering any provable fatcs.

          24. bobnstuff November 4, 2014

            I just voted with my wife and we needed no ID. The same people have been working the polling stations as long as I can remember. We have around 1000 registered voters ad I swear that they know everyone by name.

          25. BillP November 6, 2014

            like you Bob I voted on Tuesday and all I had to do was sign my name. No one asked for any ID.

          26. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

            You’re the one (deliberately) missing the point.

        2. Faraday_Cat November 3, 2014

          You already have to have ID in order to vote (you cannot register to vote without it, and if you are not registered, you cannot vote)…that is not the point of the laws, the point of the laws is to go even farther, by requiring specific kinds of ID (that not everyone may have) at a time AFTER you have already presented ID to register. This is more akin to showing your driver’s license to purchase a handgun, then being required to dig up your birth certificate in order to actually pick up the weapon after the waiting period…something that would never happen while there are 2nd amendment “zealots” and gun manufacturer’s lobbyists around. I’m not saying that the latter is bad, just that; if you don’t require it for the latter constitutional right, how can you conscience it for the former constitutional right?

          1. hicusdicus November 3, 2014

            What you are saying is incorrect. Your anology on buying a gun is one I don’t quite understand. I show two forms of ID. Drivers license and concealed carry permit which ID’s me as having no criminal record. I have to show extensive ID to get medical tratment. Obama care also requires ID. No ID no enema. In fact my wife won’t let me in the house unless I show her ID. Some times that is not enough I must first mow the lawn. To be a citizen in a democratic republic requires diligence and responsibility. Enough of these people with whinny excuses. I got ID and so can anybody else.

          2. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

            Not surprising you don’t understand.

        3. Sand_Cat November 3, 2014

          What a bigoted jackass you are. You’ve obviously never had to choose between voting and getting enough money to eat, or to feed your family.

          1. hicusdicus November 4, 2014

            That’s quite true. I have always planned ahead, I guess that is why I am successful. How about you?

  6. joe schmo November 3, 2014

    I guess you could say…..Americans are mad! Dare you to comment…..



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