By E. J. Dionne

Hiding The Church’s Treasure

November 26, 2012 12:00 am Category: Memo Pad 147 Comments A+ / A-
Hiding The Church’s Treasure

WASHINGTON — To say that the Belle Harbor neighborhood on New York City’s Rockaway Peninsula was slammed by Hurricane Sandy understates the case. Like many other parts of the region, it has suffered the kind of devastation we usually associate with wars.

In these circumstances, people turn to government, yes, but they look first to trusted friends and to neighborhood institutions that combine deep local knowledge with a degree of empathy that arises only from a long connection with residents of a particular place.

Two of my brothers-in-law who have been washed out of their homes are involved in one such group, the Graybeards, a local nonprofit recently featured on the NBC Nightly News. They immediately took up the task of restoring the city blocks they love.

And at the heart of the relief effort is the Roman Catholic parish of St. Francis de Sales, the epicenter of so many practical works of mercy that it has received a mountain of earned media attention. The Washington Post published a photo last week of a big Thanksgiving dinner organized in the parish gym where I once watched my nephews and my niece compete fiercely on the basketball court. Last week, for a moment anyway, competition gave way to fellowship.

I intend to come back again to the determined struggle of this neighborhood to rebuild. But I also hope the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops contemplating the future of the Church’s public and political engagement notice how the witness of this parish has inspired people far beyond the confines of Catholicism.

During the presidential campaign, many bishops, though by no means all, seemed to enlist firmly on one side of a highly contested election. The church didn’t endorse anyone, but some bishops made clear their preference for Mitt Romney over President Obama. Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia was about as clear as he could be short of putting a Romney-Ryan sticker on his car.

“I certainly can’t vote for somebody who’s either pro-choice or pro-abortion,” he told the National Catholic Reporter. On the other hand, he said of low-tax conservatives: “You can’t say that somebody’s not Christian because they want to limit taxation.” No doubt Paul Ryan smiled.

For such bishops, the election came as a shock. I’m told by people who attended the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops post-election meeting earlier this month in Baltimore that many of them had been convinced Romney would win. Yet Romney not only lost; he also narrowly lost the Catholic vote, partly because of overwhelming support for Obama among Latinos, the fastest-growing group in the Church.

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Hiding The Church’s Treasure Reviewed by on . WASHINGTON -- To say that the Belle Harbor neighborhood on New York City's Rockaway Peninsula was slammed by Hurricane Sandy understates the case. Like many oth WASHINGTON -- To say that the Belle Harbor neighborhood on New York City's Rockaway Peninsula was slammed by Hurricane Sandy understates the case. Like many oth Rating:

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Comments

  • JohnRNC

    If they would read their own history they would realize that this always happens when they try to take over the world. Islam on the other hand – they have the whole totalitarian theocracy thing down. Just lay down the law and start chopping off body parts of the dissidents.

    Democracy on the other hand works so much better when the Church stays out of government.

    • onedonewong

      except our govt was founded on christian principles

      • NoCrossNoCrescent

        That is a lie.

      • JohnRNC

        So why all the fuss and bother with a Constitution – just cite the appropriate scripture passages and let that be the law. Freedom requires far too much energy – let’s just turn it over to the Pope. Oh, right, been there done that and I’m pretty sure it ended badly.

        Truth is many of the colonies were founded by groups of disparate belief systems who were being persecuted by the Catholic Church (and purged from Europe ) . The “founders’ were smart (or sensitive) enough to build a system that would accommodate all of the different groups that ended up over here and then some – hence freedom of religion and a secular government. They may have been Christian but they were not fanatics or else it would have been a theocracy from the get-go.

        • jvaljon1

          “So why all the fuss and bother with a Constitution – just cite the appropriate scripture passages and let that be the law. Freedom requires far too much energy – let’s just turn it over to the Pope. Oh, right, been there, done that, and I’M PRETTY SURE IT ENDED BADLY.

          Please, John, don’t give them any more ideas! They already TRIED THAT, with the last Bush selection! In 2003, the Christian Fundies had HUGE spreads in all the news magazines, proclaiming their BELIEF AND FAITH, that BUSH WAS THE SECOND COMING! We LET those SHITHEELS GIVE US BUSH ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS—-and you see what happened? Iraq CONTINUED—Afghanistan CONTINUED—-Jobs disappeared—-how much more badly, John, did you want it to end??

          It’s STILL going badly, because while the kids did right and trooped to the polls and gave us Barack Obama for a second term—they left the PIGS in Congress right there. In truth, 2010 was the year to troop to the polls en masse to guard our Congress, Senate and Constitution from the depredations of Republican Pigs. But we didn’t do it. This year was also the year to get rid of the Pigs in Congress, as Congress’ term IS ONLY TWO YEARS. Again, we didn’t do it.

          The only good thing about what we DIDN’T DO, is that Barack Obama is back in charge and can rule by Executive Order, as he’s been having to do ever since 2008 when he first got in.

          Thanks for NOTHING, American People! Try to take the dunce caps off for 2014—ya think maybe that you can DO THAT, FOR ONE DAMN TIME?????

      • jvaljon1

        Yeah, this government was indeed founded on Christian principles. It’s just that people like you, always had an opposite take on what Christian principles, actually are. Christian Principles are what Christ taught. Not what you perverted a$$#oles try to shove down innocent kids’ throats (in many more ways than one, you cretinous creep!

        • onedonewong

          Christ despised the “money changers” which in todays vernacular and actions would be the democratic party As research has shown when it comes to Charity giving Dem’s are AWOL, they love to donate other people’s $$ just not their own. Joe Biteme in a prime example

      • latebloomingrandma

        No it wasn’t. Our laws are more reflection of the ancient Greek and Roman laws, who were pagans, than they are of Christianity. The Constitution is a secular document.

        • onedonewong

          Gee that’s news to our founders, guess they didn’t know what they were talking about

          • latebloomingrandma

            Crack open a history book or read the Federalist papers. Find the word”God” in your Constitution. It’s not there. Our founders were very well educated in the history of the ancient Greeks and Romans

          • onedonewong

            I couldn’t find the term Greek or Roman in my copy. is it in yours???

          • latebloomingrandma

            Neither is “socialism” nor “capitalism” in the Constitution. And you are a narrow minded idiot.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Hah, if they really knew what they were doing, they should have given it up, went to the nearest bar and got shitfaced.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Doris-M-Aubinger-Hebert/1422709575 Doris M. Aubinger-Hebert

    A lot of truth exists in this article. I hope every Catholic member of the clergy reads it. We need to build bridges, not put up walls.
    Doris M. Aubinger-Hebert

    • adler56

      Are there non-catholic members of the clergy? Other than in practice?

  • adler56

    The men in dresses running the church need to go- they are CINO’s- Catholic in name only.
    They left no doubt who they wanted the sheep (non-thinking Catholics) to vote for- they ignored
    the reason why the administration insisted that contraception be covered in medical insurance- they were receiving government funds- give up the government money and you can avoid the need to cover contraception- if you prefer living in the 15th century with the Taliban.

  • Jim Lou

    The Catholic Church shows how out of touch it is. This is epitomized by the pope.

    Just a side bar: What is the real age of Jesus Christ? Does that conflict with what is taught by many fundamentalist?

  • Jim Lou

    The Catholic Church is out touch which is epitomized by the pope.

    By the way what is the real of Jesus Christ? Is that going to cause problems for the Fundamentalists?

  • nobsartist

    I find it difficult to comprehend why churches are not held to the same standards as the populous. Abortion and birth control are legal. If the “catholic” church does not like it, kick them out of the country. At any rate, tax the shit out of them because they basically meet all elements that define a terrorist organization.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Marin/1664996613 David Marin

      What you say applies to all institutional religions. From a storefront fundamentalist group to the Crystal Cathedral they should all be taxed if any of them are.

  • dagamer

    I left the catholic church after my priest started preaching right wing propoganda during the homily..My 50 bucks a week goes to different liberal causes

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/WAYM6CPMQ3M6RRKE6TA2MN2QYQ Rex H

      This is what I WANT TO DO also, but haven’t yet.

      I am so sick and tired of these dysfunctional “kept” men (at my expense) telling me what to do and how to vote or suffer the pain of grievous sin.
      I want to tell them to clean up their own damn house (rectory/chancery) before they invade mine (especially my bedroom).

      I live in the Cleveland Diocese and there was serious arm bending (2008 & 2012) that pushed the limits of their tax status, IMO, and I felt like I was a victim of some perverse form of spiritual extortion and bullying.
      All this did was make me madder than I already am.
      They really have no clue as to why their churches are only 40% full on a good Sunday (and mostly made up of parishioners who are middle aged or elderly).

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        I lived in Cleveland most of my life, a southeastern suburb.

        I moved to Canton OH 15 years ago and I see the same situation down here as well, only not to the great degree that is up there.

        The reason why you don’t see only but the old in churches is that the young have become disfranchised with religion as a whole.

        Rather than teaching love, kindness and tolerance they teach hate, discrimination, separateness and exclusion. Jesus did not teach these things.

        The young see through all this smokescreen, unlike the old, which have let themselves become brainwashed and dominated.

      • Dave_dido

        I, too, am a member of the Cleveland Diocese. Just before the presidential election I got so tired of the subterfuge about who we should vote for that I sent my pastor a letter and said I would be taking a leave of absence until the bishops got back to the proper roles of the church: feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick, comforting prisoners. The Nuns on the Bus had it right. The bishops were all wet in making it a one-issue(abortion) election. Unfortunately, my parish will be without a choir director until I’m satisfied that the bishops are listening to the laity. It’s time for more Catholic laity to speak up. Bravo, E.J.

    • Dol5

      Good for you!

    • latebloomingrandma

      I left my parish for the same reason, but not the church. I roamed around a while and did find a terrific parish and priest.

    • JSquercia

      A friend of ours said that she was told from the pulpit that anyone voting for Obama was risking their immortal soul .

  • Michael Kollmorgen

    The problem with the Catholic Faith is the faith itself.

    All the way from the Pope down to the believer on the street, they all need to take a serious look at what the Catholic Church as well as what all religions represent.

    1). Stay the heck out of politics.
    2). Stay out of Public Schools.
    3). Keep Religion confined to only your church and your Private Residence.
    4). Stay out of people’s bedrooms – Peeping Toms!
    5). Stop Molesting Kids.
    6). Allow Priests to marry the one they love – be it straight or gay.
    7). Allow Female Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and Popes.
    8). Disallow all religious organizations non-profit tax statuses.
    9). Make a new Amendment spelling out exactly what the Separation between Church and State is.
    10). Stay out of every ones elses business and personal lives.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dianne-Lee/100000857981424 Dianne Lee

      And, if they do all that– What’s left? Didn’t you just pretty much tell them to quit doing everything that they do?

      • http://www.facebook.com/russell.byrd.14 Russell Byrd

        He pretty much left them with doing what they should be doing. Following the teachings of Jesus and not forcing their unwanted attentions on others.

        • onedonewong

          That sure wasn’t Jesus teachings. maybe that is your messiah’s teachings barak obama

          • nesco54

            Do you think every thing every thing is political? Do you need to take every opening to make a statement opposing the president? Republicans are not in the White House , because they do not deserve to be. Your leaders are weak and your ideas are mostly redistribution to your gods the super rich.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Actually, religion is just as political as politics itself.

            All Religions are structured on a Political Structure, a heiarcy of greater and greater power as one gets up in position.

            You can be sure within any church, especially the Catholic Church, each higher rank is internally campaigning to get into the next higher position.

            So, in effect, ALL churches reflect of our own governmental political structure. Only within a churches structure, it is way more rigid and dogmented to maintain the status quo at all cost.

            And, they BOTH have the same goal – dominance of the people under their control.

          • jvaljon1

            You, onedonewrong, are exactly the kind of disgusting, depraved pig that Jesus would have taken a whip to. Why don’t you quit trolling pages that clearly, have nothing to do with anything that you want to bray?

          • onedonewong

            Just an honest broker who posts the few nuggets of truth on this site

          • jvaljon1

            A broker, hah? That goes a long way toward explaining your point of view! On this page, you’re nothing but a troll…but at least we all know why, now.

          • patuxant

            I would guarantee you that were Jesus here today in the flesh, he wouldn’t be ripping our President apart. Rather, he would be throwing the money changers (in our world the 1% greedy bastards) out into the street. Jesus was first of all a supporter of the poor, the weak and the downtrodden, something you have apparently forgotten or never learned.

          • onedonewong

            Nope he would be in the Naval Observatory throwing Joe Biteme to the wolves for his lack of compassion and charity. When charitable giving is looked at the folks who give the LEAST are the liberal/progressives and those who give the most conservatives.
            That’s the real dif libs love to give away other people’s $$ never their own

          • patuxant

            You are full of shit…

          • jvaljon1

            Do you not know a troll when you read one, patuxtant? onedonewrong is a troll. His/her/its one joy in life is to get other people’s blood pressure high. We can talk around them, laugh at them, because they’re not worth one iota of anyone’s angst. In fact they’re sometimes funny—-in the way that a cartoon reminder of a dim Neanderthal past, could be funny. (BC, and the like….)

          • patuxant

            Thanks for reminding me to get back on track. Sometimes these idiots drive me nuts and you just want to figure out how they can be so stupid. But you are right….ignor the bastards! Thank you so very much!

          • jvaljon1

            Yes, this particular one admits to being (what he calls, an) “honest broker”.

            Maybe there IS such a thing as an ‘honest broker’…. but now seen in context, doesn’t onedonewrong’s ID make a whole lot of sense? LOL!

          • onedonewong

            Yea the Bidens made over $300,000 last year and donated $950 to charity

          • patuxant

            so fucking what? what did you give to help others asshole?

          • onedonewong

            Hey its Joe that keeps saying that everyone should pay their fair share all the while he sends the US taxpayers a bill for $25,000 for the SS to use his pool house in Del.
            As for my self 5X’s what old Joe gave, but then I’m a Republican and that’s what we do

          • jvaljon1

            I doubt very much that even YOU think that today, Jesus would “be in the Naval Observatory throwing Joe BIDEN to the wolves for his lack of compassion and charity.” I more think, that Jesus’d be looking at bin Laden and thinking of the 3,000 people that His Father had to suddenly accomodate on September 11, 2001.

            Nobody but you believes that Jesus wouldn’t approve of charitable giving. It’s a well known fact by all but you, you dishonest broker, that the only GOP “give” to protect themselves from higher taxes by means of the charitable deduction. Without the charitable deduction, nobody would see a damn dumb dime from anyone in the GOP.

            Liberals on the other hand, do the charitable deduction, but they also give, throughout. If you see people giving the down-and-out money on street corners, you can make good book that they’re NOT Republicans.

          • onedonewong

            Sorry Joe Biteme is the face of Democratic giving with his $900 a year and then sending the taxpayers a bill for $25,000 so the SS can use his pool house to provide him with protection.
            That’s my point Jesus would require and still does that the rich give to charities its a lesson that Dems have never learned.
            Liberals DON”T do the charitable contributions their feeling is that they will contribute OTHERS $$$ never their own. every independent research project over the past 50 Years have identified Libs and progressives as the folks who DON’T Give

          • jvaljon1

            T R O L L / A L E R T!

          • onedonewong

            Thanks Hobbitt

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-J-Casaletto/100000349849595 Robert J Casaletto

        That’s the problem. They have gotten away from the real use of religion. It is for people who need to celebrate in birth or marriage or morn in death. It means celebrate and appreciate your being and not your wallet. IT IS HOPE!!! Celebrate your family and not have to go to court with your children to testify against preachers. If any religion were good we wouldn’t have all these sick human behaviors popping up. It’s been going on for centuries. Now it is, in the United States, a religion becoming a means of enrichment and power. If you don’t believe it’s all about the Benjamin’s why is the Catholic Church allowed to be a country inside a country with it’s own laws, rulers, etc? The mirror image is Washington DC who is trying to exemplify Rome but this 2012 election put them in their place. The wealthy took a huge kick in the buttocks. I’ll leave it at that.

        • onedonewong

          If government was any good we wouldn’t need courts, abortion funding, homeless, murders, drugs illegals taxes and and and

          • jvaljon1

            Troll Alert!

          • patuxant

            You need to go and lie down. Your head must be spinning by now…

          • onedonewong

            it just proves that 75% of govt isn’t necessary

          • patuxant

            Huh? All your reply indicates is that you are mentally deficient.

          • onedonewong

            I noticed you didn’t offer a rebuttal

          • patuxant

            why bother? you are a moron.

          • onedonewong

            Got nothing and it shows

          • jvaljon1

            LOL, onedonewrong…..what it proves is that Republicans are what’s not necessary!

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I supposed you’d like to run this country as they did in Europe during the Dark Ages and and and……………..

          • onedonewong

            Back then they had Kings and dictators that’s exactly where we are today with our own little dictator barak

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I’d rather have a liberal-benevolent dictator in office any day over a conservative-repressive dictator that you would have preferred being in office.

            Hah, I bet you love Bishop Romney, especially his churches stance on marriage between young girls and old men. Just imagine, in the name of his Mormon religion, he probably would have legalized child sex.

          • onedonewong

            There is no such thing as a liberal benevolent dictator. As proven by the likes of Castro, Lenin Stalin, Mayo, Pol Pot, Ho Che Min the pick of the litter

          • jvaljon1

            Maybe….if the CHURCHES were any good, “we wouldn’t need courts, abortion funding, homeless, murders, drugs illegals taxes and and and”

          • onedonewong

            The churches ARE good its the libs that don’t want them to intervene

        • jvaljon1

          What no one seems to be noticing is that, DESPITE the despicable CITIZENS’ UNITED ruling by our ultra-conservative Supreme Court—despite all that money sloshing around all unaccounted for—-BILLIONS, from all the billionaires, the last time I looked, around Nov. 5—-

          President Obama, with only HALF the financial resources of the Republicans—WON THE ELECTION ANYWAY!!!

          LOL LOL!

    • Dol5

      Sounds like good ideas to me. But then I’m not Catholic so maybe I shouldn’t say anything. So just forget what I just said.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Merl-Allen/695715159 Merl Allen

      at least you weren’t molested. I hope

      • onedonewong

        sounds like mikie was a bed wetter

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          For your sorry ass information.

          My mother was! Yea, she got beat to hell and back every morning by her bi*ch mother (my grandmother) when she was a child.

          And, once again, a doctor advised her to take my mother to a doctor which she refused to do.

          Years later, shortly before her death, it was found out she had a Dropped/Weak Bladder that could have been cured when she was a child.

          This gets even better………………….

          • jvaljon1

            So sorry to hear what happened to your Mom. My kid was a bedwetter too. Middle child! I never believed in being rough on kids but I was getting worried: she was 5 years old and getting ready to start school (1965). I didn’t want her to be made fun of and tortured by classmates. I had taken her to the Dr. already, and he had shrugged it off “she’ll train herself when she’s ready.” So I asked my pharmacist if HE could recommend a Dr. He asked what’s the matter—I told him. He said, tell the Dr. your daughter’s allergic and get a scrip for Benadryl.

            I did that and got the scrip and he filled it for what the Dr. said, but added “Give her 1/2 tsp every night. Tell me what heppens in 3 days.” Three days later was the third night that she didn’t wet the bed and we were all ecstatic. I asked him why wasn’t this common knowledge. He snorted and laughed. “We’d put the medical profession out of business real quick, if what we knew was put up against what THEY know.”

            From then on I have always asked my pharmacist what he recommends, in the way of doctors, meds, etc.

            Oh….my little girl went to school without a worry in the world, thanks to my wonderful pharmacist. I left town but before I did I made sure to go thank him. I told him that he had made all the difference to a little girl who would have otherwise had some miserable memories of first grade. That if she had a good life, she owed it to him. He had tears in his eyes when I finished. I got the impression that he didn’t get thanked all that much.

            Oh—I kept my little one on the Benadryl for 1 week. She was fine, after that. That was all it took. I don’t believe that it’s 2012 and kids are still suffering from bedwetting and all the psychological BS that entails. Damn!

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Back in my mothers early childhood, things were taken care of privately, things were not spoken of as easily as they are today.

            As I said earlier, if these things, what my grandmother did, she did today, she would have been brought up on abuse and possible homicide charges.

            I still don’t know today why she acted as she did. She and my grandfather were first generation checkoslavic immigrants. My Grandfather from memory was a kind and gentle man. I wish I had gotten to know him much better. My Grandmother, she was the Bitch in the family.

            These types of stories need to be told. The old Rockwellian View of how family life was was so good, people should look back in their own history and realize things weren’t all that great. It was mostly an illusion at best.

          • jvaljon1

            You’re absolutely right, of course. I didn’t have those problems—my grands were dead and long gone by the time I came into the world. But my classmates’ grandparents? Some of them were true horrors.

            When I was in the 8th grade (1951)There was a kid we all called Monkey (sadly,don’t recall his actual name). He was agile and fast. His grandmother was a horror, always drinking and beating on him. He lived with her—-I think his father had died during the war and his mom wasn’t in the picture, for whatever the reason.

            Monkey died one day. He had “fallen from the rooftop” where he had always been wont to play (getting away from grandma). The class, we all looked at each other when we were told the news by our teacher. There wasn’t anyone who didn’t think that grandma had everything to do with why our classmate was dead.

            That kid was a NATURAL ACROBAT. NO WAY did he fall from any rooftop. He was the unofficial roof-hopping TEACHER to the rest of us. Fall? Not Monkey, not ever. His body was found in the STREET. He was picked up and FLUNG off that roof and we all knew it, and we all knew by whom.

            So much for the “good old days”. Say what you will—today, Monkey’s death would’ve been investigated up and down, and that nutty ol’ lady would’ve ended her days in jail. For that matter, the first black eye he came to school with ( and he had SO MANY) from being hit with beer and liquor bottles, the authorities today would’ve ordered him removed from that place. Back then, the parents (and grandparents) RULED.

            Life and death rule—no matter. Those ‘good ol’ days’, are, thankfully gone.

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          The more I look at your comments throughout this entire thread, the more I believe you’re one of the problems with the Church.

          I know someone, not personally thankfully, similar to you. Same viewpoints, same dogmatized perspective(s) and just as disgusting who Trolls a blog here in Ohio. He brags that the Catholic Church made him Man Of the Year.

          IF you and this other person is an example of what the Catholic Church has raised, I thank my Lucky Stars every day I’m nearly an Atheist.

          Simply put, you’re both PERVERTS! No better way of putting it.

          • onedonewong

            The more I read your comments the more I realize that your not a Catholic and are more at home in the Jonestown family

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Who ever said I was a Catholic? I never did.

            Yea, I was baptized Catholic, as if I had a choice in the matter as a newborn. I never practiced it and neither did my parents.

          • onedonewong

            Its obvious

          • jvaljon1

            I think that you just gave Michael, a tremendous compliment. I sure hope that he appreciates it, LOL!

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        I never got involved with any Church or ever joined the “christian-based” Boy Scouts.

        So I suppose I was lucky.

      • JSquercia

        They were GIRLS and so couldn’t be alterboys back then .

    • onedonewong

      Catholicism isn’t some sort of debate about the churches values or teachings. If your looking for that kind of faith try Rev Wright or Sharpton or Jesse jackson.
      Were the nuns a little harsh you bet, but isn’t that the libs position that you need to pay, but it was your family getting a FREE education and was offering nothing in exchange. Did you mother or her parents offer to clean the church, help out a lunch cut the grass?? I can guarantee the answer was No to all of the above basically your family were MOOCHERS.
      as for your recommendations:
      . the church can’t and won’t run candidates but they certainly have the right to point out those candidates positions that are a SIN
      . the Catholic Church has 10’s of thousands of Schools and Hospitals that saves the taxpayers BILLIONs of dollars. How many schools and hospitals does baraks fellow moooslims have??
      . this country was founded on Christian beliefs so it would be contrary to our founders for the church to keep their religion at home
      . homosexuals are an aberration of nature and are social deviants no different than rapists or ax murders
      . end molestation agreed that was a problem for the church to allow homosexuals to ever be admitted as priests. Those days are over if your a homo you can’t be a priest.
      . the church follows Jesus and the apostles lead as it relates to marriage
      . the church follows Jesus and the apostles on who can be priests
      . disallow all non profit status??? OK then the govt should be required to pay the church for all they do for society from schools to churches to aid etc. If you add up all the non profits in this country they can’t equal all the goods and services that the church supplies to this country.
      . there is no separation clause in the constitution is was mad up by unelected supreme court judges
      . the church is the moral compass for this country. If they did what you request we would end up like Sodom and Gomorrah. Your position is backed by 5% of the American public

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        That situation I told the audience about was when the DEPRESSION occurred. EVERYONE was broke. And, during that time, Astabula was a poor town, mostly composed of first generation German and Checkoslovak Immigrants.

        But the Church seemed to be doing pretty good though. Moochers? MFer, let me tall ya, my grandpap worked his butt off supporting the family, working in the shipyards that once build ships in Astabula harbor.

        Volunteer to the Church? They didn’t have time for that crap. Neither did my mom and her sisters at 8-9 years old?. You Perv!

        Hint! The vast majority of voters in the US right now would approve of what I stated. Sorry, you’re so behind the times…………………….

        You appear like a person who’s nose is so high in the air, the first rain and you’d drown.

        Moral Compass? Please give me a break. Your’re telling me, since Christianity is the moral compass of the country, then by inference, backing a guy like Romney, which the bulk of Christianity did, that means Christianity would and did approve of what his church believed in. Young girls marrying old guy in secret? Bigmomy which the Church prohibits {wink} along with guys like Warren Jeffs another church prohibition{wink}.

        Talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, the Catholic Church does more to promote this than just about any other denomination. They don’t do it in public, just behind the PULPIT between the Priests and Choirboys, not to mention Bishops passing them from parish to parish, Cardinals and Popes ignoring it for generations.

        And, the Gay Card has gotten real old too. The Main Problem with this is that these Priests are not allowed to get married to someone of the opposite sex. You can pray away your libedo just so long. A Full-Fledged Gay Man would not molest children. The Gay Community despises Pedos just as much as everyone else does.

        Your entire post speaks of someone who is bigoted, hateful and grossly misinformed – now a days, the typical right-wing white christian.

        Like I told someone else with your viewpoint – crawl back into your cave, Neanderthal.

        • jvaljon1

          What an insult to Neanderthals, Michael. You should apologize to them!

      • nesco54

        A lot of theology has be rethought to match political positions, political positions of some churches do not reflect the teachings of Christ. The church is loosing members , young members, because they are so full of it

      • jvaljon1

        BIG TIME TROLL ALERT—-wait a minute…hey, this one’s actually FUNNY! Read the second from the end, regarding Troll Michael’s take on the Separation between Church and State.

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          There is NO true separation between Church and State in this country. What separation there is is very vague at best. Our founding fathers waffled on the issue in any meaningful way.

          If you think there is, then tell me why there are so many court cases involving religion and politics?

          Let the Truth be shown where it lies. If there was a true separation between church and state, we wouldn’t have all these court cases clogging up our court system(s).

          By rights, the entire Constitution should be scrapped and totally re-written. It does not meet our current needs. Our Government is a complete mess. Why?, because it’s all based on a Constitution which is also a mess.

          Garbage IN, Garbage OUT!

          • jvaljon1

            Sorry Michael….I was agreeing with you. I try not to deal with morons like onedonewrong, because I tend to get too mad. So I called you Troll Michael when what I MEANT to typed was Troll onedonewrong! Forgive. And THAT’S what I meant, about dealing with trolls!

            But sometimes they’re irresistible.

        • onedonewong

          Mikie is a bed wetter

        • jvaljon1

          Sorry, Michael. I type too fast sometimes. I meant of course, Troll onedonewrong! Again—apologies!

      • patuxant

        Your views are seriously pathetic. First of all, the catholic schools I attended all recieved tuition from the families, so for you to call families “moochers” just goes to show how ignorant you are. A catholic education was never free where I came from. What in the world is your problem with the President that makes you make such stupid remarks? He IS NOT A MUSLIM…and even if he were, what difference would that make? Then I guess you didn’t get a very good education with all of your “free” education because your remarks overflow with grammatical errors. You sound like a fool with your obviously brainwashed ideas. You still are in denial about the pedophiles still running rampant in the church and yet you want to bury your precious head in the sand and say “NO, NO, NO! Not my church!” It is no business of the church to be messing into the affairs of the State or haven’t you remembered anything about the separation of church and state? Did you learn anything about the “Nuns on the Bus” or were you too shallow to grasp what was happening there? All your other comments aren’t worth addressing because they show a clear lack of logic and objectivity.

        • onedonewong

          !st of all Nope not true
          barak is a Moooslim and a socilist. It was barak who said that if the world turns the only people he will stand with are moooslims. His rules of engagement places more value on moooslims than our troops. He has rebuilt Mosques how many churches has he rebuilt??
          I never denied that pedophiles were in the church that’s why homosexuals have no place in the priesthood
          Mind showing where in the constitution the reference to the separation of church and state is?? Its not in my copy but maybe its i the new socialist reprint.
          The nuns on the bus don’t run the Catholic Church and the bishops are dealing with their childish antics.
          When you have a rebuttal that makes sense or is valid try again but as usual you FAIL

          • patuxant

            You should back up what you say with facts and not bore everyone with your idiotic conclusions.

          • onedonewong

            I did too bad you can’t read

          • patuxant

            get over yourself…you just ranted on with some psycho babble…

          • jvaljon1

            Time for the Meds, onedonewrong….we’ll excuse you while you go take them!

          • patuxant

            Yes, now didn’t he need those meds or pot or something to make the pain subside…HaHa!

          • jvaljon1

            I can’t believe I hit the like button, I was aiming for reply. That’s the only “like” you’re gonna get, onedonewrong, you troll, it was by accident!

            Patuxant can read and so can I. It’s just that when we read YOUR posts, troll, we don’t BELIEVE what we’re reading! What PLANET are you from? What TIME PERIOD? LOLOL!

          • onedonewong

            I hit the stupid button when ever you post

          • jvaljon1

            “I hit the stupid button whenever you post”…..Easiest button you ever hit!  LOLOL

          • jvaljon1

            My God, what PLANET are you from, onedonewrong??? LOLOLOL OMG!!!!

            TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!

      • JSquercia

        I can not believe your position but I totally get your lack of Empathy . I am a Catholic who feels the same as Joe Biden . I would not be in favor of abortion but I feel that the CONSTITUTION requires me to NOT force MY religious views on you .
        I am furious about this whole BS about the church’s freedom of religion being threatened by having to pay for Birth Control . The church is the one violating the religious Freedom of the non Catholics who work in their Hospitals and other agencies . I am sure you are aware that an overwhelming majority of Catholics do use Birth Control but are you aware that Pope John appointed a Commission to look into the church’s position and that it recommended that it be left up to people and NOT be considered a sin . Unfortunately Pope John died and his successor Pope Paul added to the commission and they once again looked over the issue and STILL recommended it no longer be a sin. The Pope IGNORED the recommendations .
        Some of the apostles were indeed MARRIED and there was NO prohibition against married Priests for much of the early church . As for the rule against women serving as priests the first one to see the empty tomb was a woman and it was the women who were at the foot of the cross while the apostles hid .
        Actually the Government DOES pay for a lot of what the church does in its charitable work .
        Our position was upheld when we had an ELECTION which your side LOST . So it would seem that a LOT more than 5% share our views . In fact as the article pointed out Obama even won a majority of the Catholic vote .

        • onedonewong

          Can’t believe my position??? Sorry the Catholic Church isn’t a one size fits all and never has been. Its moral clock has never strayed because the Pope is infallible.
          As for your contention that Pope John appointed a commission and they decided to allow individuals to decide is UTTER Nonsense, where did you get that from ratical madcow???
          The church is hardly violating anyone’s freedoms, all they have said is they aren’t paying for abortions and birth control. The govt by requiring it is forcing the Church to violate its fundamental precepts and they don’t have the constitutional right to do so.
          If a individual want the pill they are inexpensive less than $5 a month at walmart.
          As for your position I wasn’t aware that an election supersedes the constitution maybe you better stick with your new found messiah since your no catholic

      • jvaljon1

        I can see that you never went to Catholic school, LOL, if you can call it “Free”! FYI, it costs MONEY to go. They charge TUITION and they’re not shy about it either! Your parents have to buy UNIFORMS as well. FREE, Catholic School is NOT.

        But then the rest of your post is such a completely made-up batch of BS….”no separation clause in the constitution it was made up by unelected supreme court judges” I guess we should kick our own Supreme Court out. (and with that, I’d agree, right about now, LOL!)

        • onedonewong

          Not when I went, do they charge now yes but many receive it for free depending on their parents situation and what they do for the church. As for uniforms they are far cheaper than everyday school clothes and its stops all the nonsense in school. When was the last time you heard of a kid knifing someone for his schools uniform??
          Made up can you site the passage?? Or is it just another liberal rant

          • jvaljon1

            The separation clause was made up by unelected Supreme Court judges….OH LOL! NOW you complain about what unelected Supreme Court judges do—now!!!!  Where were YOU, pray tell,  when the unelected Supreme Court in 2000,  stopped the recount of votes in Florida for fear that “petitioner (George W. Bush) is likely to be harmed by the result”—?  You get better and better!  Well???  Oh and you want the citation so that you’re sure I’m just not giving you a “liberal rant”?   Sure.   Try:    Bush v Gore, USSC, December 12, 2000: per curiam, JUSTICE SCALIA PRESIDING.    Not a word from you about how they picked our President, though. The Supreme Court that you cite was just as unelected as the one that gave America its nightmare Bush presidency.    Except in THAT case, the Supreme Court was acting IN America’s best interests—–NOT OUTSIDE OF IT, as in Bush v. Gore. LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH FROM STATE!!!!!!

          • onedonewong

            The supremes stop the count of the great karnak votes. where election officials were deciding what voters intended. It was a farce on its face that after the election that officials rather than counting votes were in effect VOTING. The Supremes simply said you don’t have the ability to do that which was the right and only decision. The votes were counted 4 times and in every count W won, of course in typical Dem suppression tactics REFUSED to count absentee military ballots.
            Nor was the state run media sanctioned for voter suppression in FL…how short ones memory is.
            The constitution is VERRRRY specific on religion that congress can’t ‘establish” a religion. No where in the constitution does the word separation exist when it comes to church and state

          • jvaljon1

            Great karnak, onedonewrong? That’s what you’re calling yourself today? My goodness! OK. The clause in question (YOUR question, re separation) is as we both know, Amendment I, the “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble….and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” clause.

            That’s it! That’s Amendment I, which ESTABLISHES THE SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE that is the actual DESCRIPTION (since it was the first enumerated) of the first part of the first sentence in that one-sentence amendment. Of course it’s called the SEPARATION CLAUSE, as that’s what it is!

            Now that’s our undeniable right—to keep the State and Church separate. That’s what the Founders left us—oh, they left us this too, next to last enumeration—OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE…and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

            Try to tell that to Occupy. They were even peaceable when the cops pepper-sprayed and maced them. Offered no resistance. Still were carted off to the clink. OK that’s Bloomberg, Republican…..but what a blatant kick in the butt to Amendment One! Both the separation clause AND the right of peaceful assembly, shattered by Republicans. We The People are now beginning to name them as traitors to our country (the recent Republicans) and that’s the reason why.

            Ummm…..what made you fasten upon “great karnak”, onedonewrong?

            Hey—-and just for the sake of curiosity; exactly why DO you call yourself “onedonewrong”? You mentioned somewhere, being an ‘honest broker’…..of what, pray tell?

            Well…..tomorrow’s another day. Take your meds, onedonewrong, take your meds….and try to rest easy, OK?

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Hate to tell ya, but that 1st ammendment doesn’t really represent separation between church and state.

            The statement:
            “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, does not truely separate church and state from interacting with each other on any platform.

            All it says is that the government can’t endorse or establish a religious-based government.

            It says absolutely nothing about the church involving itself in politics, nor funding any political issues since it does not prohibit the free exercise of religion.

            We ought to change that though.

          • jvaljon1

            But from the years 2000 through 2008, the government DID establish a religion-based government. The religion was Christianity and the Evangelical movement actually saw Bush as the Second Coming (an OMG moment if ever there was one, LOL!)! They had articles on these looney-tunes, I think in Newsweek or USA Today, I forget which. You can look it up yourself if you wish, Michael. As an indication of how far down we’ve fallen in our freedoms as a nation, that’s too depressing for me to look at again.

            Even now you hear Catholic priests inveighing from the pulpit, how women are automatically excommunicated if they take estrogen for various other conditions that they might need it for. If THAT isn’t political speech, I don’t know what is, since what they’re doing is to attempt to influence the politics of birth control, and incidentally, remove women’s freedom-of-choice as to what they themselves will do with their own bodies. You can go to any church on any Sunday and hear this.

            Why our government isn’t taxing these churches, is beyond me.

          • onedonewong

            Glad you looked it up that’s a start now place your finger under each word and read it out load. establishment is a far different animal than separation the 2 words meanings aren’t even close.
            No the founders didn’t want the federal govt to establish a national religion as they had done in England with the Anglican Church. The founders had no problem with the practice of religion and most federal agencies have the 10 commandments posted check out the SC
            The Occupy were protesting on public as well as private land. The private land in NYC required them to be removed immediately and govt land where they pitched their tents prohibits over night camping to destruction of public property. the taxpayers got a bill of $10 Million after the Occupy slugs left to repair the damage. Of course the protesters didn’t pay a dime and the ONLY reason they were allowed to stay was Obama pressure on the park service he knew it would help his reelection efforts
            What fasten on the Great Karnak??? The ballots in Florida during the 2000 election

          • jvaljon1

            Sound the words out, the multi-syllable may–for you—require more than one mouthing before you actually grasp what I said:    The separation of church and state is IMPLICIT in the clause about Congress not establishing a State religion.  Im pli cit—there, I hope that helped—means, that clause is implicit to most people’s understanding of Congress’ not establishing a State religion. Without going into all the cumbersome-ness of it all, it’s easier to identify what that amendment means—-that a NON-TAXPAYING entity has no business propagandizing to their mouth-drooling followers such as you, onedonewrong—and then passing the collection plate.  Separation of church and state…..right there, bozo. Oh—-and since when is a public park, private land???  You really have to get back on your meds, onedonewrong!  The most wrong thing that you ever did, was to go off them.

          • onedonewong

            Implicit??? Sorry the constitution says “Establishment”. Now take a second and read what the defination of the word is and the Federalist Papers outlined WHY they used the word ESTABLISHMENT..
            The fact that you pretend to be the great karnak when reading 10 simple words show how childish and ignorant you are.
            Once again we have a lib who can’t read and then tries to justify their inability…sorry you failed again

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            This is one of the few things I will agree with you on. I assume uniforms are a lot cheaper than some of the high-end clothing these kids get to “go to school” with.

            Yes, I do agree that IF these kids wore uniforms I doubt we would see all the violence that we see in our public schools today. I think their grades would also improve.

            I shutter to think I would approve of this. But, I would fully approve of all school kids wearing Uniforms, public or private, it don’t matter.

            In most of Europe and Asia, all kids wear uniforms. And, there seems to be a lot less violence as a result.

            So, you see, even though to you, I might be a card carrying Liberal Democrat rascal, there are “some” things we agree on.

    • patuxant

      How awful, but I know how this can happen and the guilt the church puts on parishoners to keep the flock in line. I grew disillusioned when I was about 10 years old for seeing the hypocracy and the lies and the fear they tried to put into us as mere children. And hey, remember when it was a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday? I remember thinking, what happened to all those who died with that “sin” on their souls when the church decided to overturn that sin???

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        Maybe they were “Un-Sinned”.

        Of course that don’t help with the mental torture they went through before they kicked off.

  • sonatherun

    I will credit the bishops for sincerely thinking the best way to bring more faithful into the Church is through more births, though that is very misguided, and the mission of any Christian should be the saving of living souls. That is best acheived through being as Christ-like as possible, which your lauding of good works recognizes. The Sermon on the Mount is not recognizable in most right wing views, nor in most men who hold those views.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Marin/1664996613 David Marin

    I was born and raised a Catholic in a liberal household during the 1950’s. Pius the XII was pope then, and as I went through Catholic school education and watched the painstakingly slow process of the church crawling up to address and join the modern world and my family’s worldview I had no reason not to hold out hope for what the church with all its global influence could do to elevate the condition of mankind. I graduated from a Catholic college and taught in Catholic schools for over a quarter of a century while witnessing the institutional progress of inclusivity and inclusion advance in the 60’s, slow after John XXIII, and seemingly grind to a halt after John Paul II and installation of ultra-conservative Cardinal Ratzinger as pope Benedict. Most non-Catholics still adhere to the false Catholic-baiting propaganda that the Catholic church believes and teaches that “everything the pope says” is miraculously infallible (actually this tenet applies only to pronouncements of studiously investigated official opinions on doctrinal questions of faith and morals; akin to a supreme court opinion), and so there remains a sometimes intentional disconnect between the Catholic church and other Christian institutional religions based on the most unchristian agendas conceivable. In recent decades I have seen the council of bishops become, like the GOP after the Tea Party incursion, increasingly hidebound and intolerant rather than inclusive and open to the fact that all persons of all faiths or no faith whatsoever are inherently equal in worth and entitled to exercise their own “God-given” free will. The Catholic church has ceased to be catholic and no longer is entitled to my support. I welcome its eventual enlightenment and reaffirmation of its original mission to spread the doctrine of Jesus (who joyfully ministered to the unbelievers as opposed to didactically and summarily condemning and excluding them), but I’m not holding my breath. I will continue to hold and be guided by strong moral beliefs based on inclusion and helping to make the world a better place in any way possible. The church, however, is made of its people and its leadership voice seems, like the GOP, to have been coopted and redefined as a bitter, smug, old man.

    • latebloomingrandma

      The church is “lesser” without you. I ‘ve decided to stay and be a thorn in their side. If all us libs leave, the church will deteriorate into a right wing cult. It probably won’t be in my lifetime, but I pray for a Pope John XXIV

      • jvaljon1

        Don’t hold your breath, grandma—the Cardinals aren’t about to make that mistake again. They chose Ratzinger—-aka The Kraut—-specifically to walk the church back from Pope John XXIII’ds reforms (I respectfully suggest here that John was the 23rd, not the 24th—if I’m wrong, I apologize). The church HAS therefore, degenerated into a right-wing cult, and is losing young people at a great rate because of that. My young granddaughter (21) who LOVED THE CHURCH and wanted to be in it forever, is about to LEAVE THE CHURCH in disgust.

        In an effort to keep her with something to believe in, I’ve been telling her that—as in many another long-lived institution—the people currently infesting the Church are evil, vicious, and have their own anti-human and ANTI-CHURCH, AGENDA. I told her that it’s only temporary and that soon, Christ will be back in the Roman Catholic Church. She said, “Fine. I won’t be going back until that happens.”

        Nice going, Catholics. Oh—she was also the choir leader, like David-dido. Maybe that’s why you won’t hear some Catholic choirs raising their voice in adoration much, anytime soon.

        • latebloomingrandma

          Yes–the great Pope was John XXIII. I am praying for his worthy successsor, hopefully named John XXIV.

        • JSquercia

          I believe the poster was referring to their desire to see a NEW Pope in the mold of John the XXIII . His loss was a tragedy for the church . I too was especially saddened by the role of John Paul II in quashing any real change and am upset over the rush to grant him Sainthood .

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HGC4BGWVYXV76PHZBPSPOOU5GA Independent1

    When a Catholic bishop says that limiting taxation is not anti-Christian, knowing full well that what that means is government will be trying to cut all sorts of services for those in need and the elderly while keeping tons of money in the pockets of those who already have far more money than they should ever really need, it’s pretty clear that the church itself has gotten as anti-Christian as it gets. Certainly this bishop knows full well the scripture which tells us that if we have the means to help someone in need and purposely choose not to help them, it is a sin and a completely anti-Christian action.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Marin/1664996613 David Marin

      It’s evident that the Bishop who said this has gotten anti-Christian; he only pretends to speak for all Catholics. Nobody, not even the Pope, speaks for all Catholics…even if they act as if they do.

    • jvaljon1

      Try telling that to them. But one person on these boards had it right—-instead of leaving the Church because of what few evil old men preach—try to find a parish where love, tolerance and inclusiveness is taught and good works are performed. I have hope that such places do exist and I am trying to find one for my granddaughter before she loses her faith altogether. I WILL NOT LET THESE BASTARDS DO THAT TO HER!!!!

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        Like it or not, you’re still stuck with the basic rules and guidelines put down by the Vatican. No Catholic Church is going to sway too far from these rules, or the church’s Priest is at risk of being removed or even excommunicated by the bishop.

        The Vatican will chop as many heads off it needs to keep the Status Quo intact.

  • ChristoD

    The separation of church and state is NON-NEGOTIABLE. I WAS a Catholic until 50 years ago, when the Priest at MY church, refused to let the love of my life, who was Baptist, and I be married by BOTH a Priest and her Pastor. I left the church in anger because of their EXCLUSIONIST philosophy. I RETURNED to the church 40 years later when an INCLUSIVE believing Catholic Priest/Pastor drew me back with his INCLUSIVE management of OUR church. I then LEFT the church again last year when the far right Bishop of our area insisted on meddling in National politics. The separation of church and state is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

    • jvaljon1

      They’ll only realize the error of their ways when their financial support by such as the Kochs, DeVrys and others, ends. Right now that’s what’s keeping the Catholic Church going, and it’s the only thing that is. Because the former Catholic Laity is old, sick and less numerous because of dying off, than it ever was before. And now that it’s losing the Latino young—which it is—-their base’s death is going to accellerate.

  • jebediah123

    In my twenties I still believed and defended the Catholic church and it’s “religion”. Until I got ahold of a book—-written by an Italian—-revealing the sexual perversions and murderous activities by former Popes. It was an eye opener. I went to great lengths to find out if the author was ever sued for printing false or defamatory statements—he never was.

    Since then I have read MANY books on the origin of the Catholic church and the life of Jesus the Christ. 90% of the basis of this “religion” is MYTH.

    Which leads me to the conclusion of why would anyone believe or even listen to a representative of this so called “church”?? People are sheep.

  • a80a

    when I have sinned I ask god to forgive me . I don,t have to go through a priest,and bare my soul to him to ask forgiveness. but all religions pry into politics the preachers say vote against the lottery here in al. but when I go to ga. or miss. I see a lot of al. tags. religion and politics don,t mix very good, the concoction is dangerous.

  • quasm

    Mr. Dionne;

    The way for a church to lose its faith is to abandon its principles. If its members leave it because they cannot adhere to the church’s tenets they do not belong there. Religious felicity was never a popularity contest.

    Dik Thurston
    Colorado Springs

  • docb

    The tax exemption should be nulled! Chaput is a traitor to his congregation..he certainly was in Denver!

  • howa4x

    This is exactly why we designed a government system that keeps religion out. The founders saw the terrible wars and conflicts that were religously based plague Europe and the influence of the church on policy.. In this election, the Bishops faced off inside the Catholic faith against the Nuns who do the work of the church by runing the hospitals, and schools. They formed Nuns on the bus and rode around the country telling all that the Ryan plan would decimate the lower middle class and the poor in favor of the richest Americans, while the Bishops who are above what is happening on the street took a very narrow position and saw the election as a mandate on abortion and contraception. The Abortion message has been constant for the church, but the contraception issue is not a winner for them. What they are actually saying is that they are against pre marital sex, not just for Catholics but for everybody and a majority of women regardless of their faiths don’t buy that line of reasoning. The reality is people are going to engage in sexual practices, whether married of not, so placing a restriction to the acess of contraception raises the possibility of unwanted pregnacy. Since most single parents, which the majority are women, live in proverty, and need government services like health care , food stamps and day care, the way to avoid that life is to have an abortion if you make a mistake and become pregnant. The bishops are loosing on all sides, with the people who need services, like the Latinos, and women, and those who want to be sexually active. This is why the people voted for their own well being instead of the Bishops.
    If they want to stay relavant, it’s time for the Bishops to rethink reality and come back to this century, and start concentrating an the real message of Jesus, instead of siding with the rich and powerful against the meek. The real message is to say out of politics like the founders wanted.

    • JSquercia

      Just so you know a lot of MARRIED folks are in favor of Contraception .I remember married friends of ours Priest Shopping to find a priest who would give them absolution in spite of their using the Pill .

      • howa4x

        I know. Isn’t is sad that a religion can have so much power over people’s lives

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/63C6DBGS7UAUJI3FFLLXPFEFWE Boomer

    Back in the ’60’s the Sierra Club lost its tax exempt status because it opposed a proposed damming of the Grand Canyon. Why hasn’t the Catholic Church lost its tax exempt status for its involvement in politics? Non-involvement in politics is supposed to be a strict requirment for maintaining its tax exempt status.

    • roseviolet

      It *is* supposed to be, but for some reason during my entire adulthood, it’s been strangely entirely or almost entirely unenforced on religious entities – and not just the Catholic ones, all of them that have tax exempt status under 501(c)3. Meddling directly in politics by way of things like telling members who to vote for or how to vote and I’d suspect also stuff like the involvement of churches in gay marriage initiatives in the many states that have had such elections, are exactly the sorts of things by definition that you’re *not* supposed to do if you want to keep your tax exempt status. It’s clearly defined in your paperwork and on the IRS website. So how are they getting away with all of this? “Religious freedom” doesn’t or at least shouldn’t include “the right to violate any and all laws at will”.

  • dmikee

    The works of mercy bring us all together, not just Catholics but huge numbers of inter-faith groups and organizations too. Jesus is smiling. Reach out now and hug an Episcopalian female priest. Or a United Methodist female pastor. Or even a Lutheran associate pastor. These are our fellow/sister mainline eucharistic faiths.

    Then it is time to sit down and break bread with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists and native Americans who all worship the same God in their heart of hearts. The results could be absolutely amazing!

  • bstockinger

    Catholic bishops need to reform themselves before they worry about anyone else. Bishops live in a never-never land that only exists for them. They don’t face any of the issues that most of us face on a daily basis. None of them live paycheck to paycheck, need to find a way to pay for college education, find a decent job, or even find daycare. Until the bishops start dealing with the reality of modern life in America, they will be increasingly irrelevant.
    Too many of us have been impacted by their lack of action on pedophilia or similar issues. If they had spent half as much effort on dealing with behavior issues among priests as they have on fighting contraception, there won’t have been issues with pedophilia in the Catholic Church. If the bishops were pro contraception and pro sex education, abortion wouldn’t be anywhere near the issue it is today.
    Until the bishops get completely out of the bedroom they will never represent a majority of Catholics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.silliman.7 Joe Silliman

    I doubt many readers ever heard of the late Cardinal Montini. He was the modern voice of the Catholic church, an adviser to the Pope. His memoirs were released a few months ago after his death. His memoirs revealed he warned the Pope the church was 200 years behind the time, and unless it modernize to catch up the church would continue to see the faithful diminish. He believed the church should stay out of politics. He believed in the rights of women and gays. In the conclave of 1963, he was the front runner to succeed Pope John XXIII. What a different world it would have been for Catholics had he been elected!

    • Dave_dido

      Joe, I think you are referring to Cardinal Martini. Montini was the surname of Pope Paul vi who did ,indeed, succeed Pope John xxxiii.

    • Sierra111

      It seems to me that the present Catholic hierarchy is trying to undo Vatican II.

    • mjw1952

      The Catholic hierarchy has dismantled Vatican II, and ruined the church. It is too bad someone line Cardinal Martini was not at the helm, it would have been so much better for all.

  • nobsartist

    I think that as a “states rights” initiative, the churches tax free status should be voted on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Theresa-Darklady-Reed/581698361 Theresa ‘Darklady’ Reed

    As a former Catholic, I found it amusingly sad that people demanded answers from Romney about his church’s view on blacks and women… yet they gave the Catholics a complete pass!

    How is the Mormon Church’s views of women any less ridiculous than the Roman Catholic Church’s view on women? We still can’t be priests, we’re not considered quite the spiritual equals of men, and our reproductive functions are considered the purview of men to dictate!

  • Sierra111

    More Catholics voted for Obama than Romney. The above sounds like the IRS should be investigating these bishops’ tax exempt status.

  • jvaljon1

    A BROKER?! Mortgage? Stocks? LOL!

  • hijodejuan

    It’s about f—ing time. Excuse the expletive, but I am passionate about my church (Roman Catholic), and I am a liberal Democrat. I am progressive, as needed and moderate when necessary. I believe the church is guided by men, and guided by their spirituality. These men are not God, and should never pretend to be. I pray that the leaders in the church will figure it out, and become one with the spirit of charity that guides us all. When the bishops continued their rant from the last two presidential elections (starting with John Kerry & refusing to grant him communion – what a stupid, petty political thing to say) I became disillusioned again, and began to pray and ask every priest I came in contact with to say a prayer for our President. None said they would not, and we left it as such. Until women, minorities of all stripes and colors and our wonderful nuns are allowed to become priests, we will continue to live in the dark ages. Thank God for John Kennedy, and his family, and what they have done for the progrssive wing of the Democratic party. Shame on Paul Ryan and John Boehner, and Chief Justice John Roberts for that matter for their support of the right wing elements of the Republican party that believes white men with property rule the world!!! They must belong to a different Catholic church than I do. Thanks to EJ for writing this article.

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