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3 Reasons Republicans Must Pull The Plug On Jeb If They Want To Stop Trump

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3 Reasons Republicans Must Pull The Plug On Jeb If They Want To Stop Trump

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Jeb Bush — and, by extension, the GOP Establishment — has taken quite a beating this week, as Donald Trump continues to rail against George W.’s record of national security and leadership.

In his latest spat, Donald Trump became the first major presidential candidate in the 14 years since 9/11 to actually say out loud that Bush’s record was horrible.

By forcing a response, Trump has pushed Jeb into the uncomfortable position of having to actually talk about his brother’s record — and it’s not going well for him. On Friday, he responded to Trump in personal terms:

To which Trump responded:

Over the weekend, Jeb also appeared on CNN’s State of the Union, and struggled both to defend his brother’s leadership in the fight against terrorism and to explain how any criticism of George W. Bush for 9/11 was different from Republicans going after Hillary Clinton for the (much smaller) attack in Benghazi 11 years later.

All of this squabbling among the candidates has made one thing abundantly clear: If establishment Republicans really want to stop Donald Trump, they must first get Jeb out of the way. Here are some reasons why.

1. Jeb Bush can’t beat Donald Trump.

Jeb has been unable to show any true vigor or backbone against The Donald: sitting there uncomfortably as Trump insults him, attacks his wife, and is now taking on his brother. And even Republican voters don’t seem to want Jeb around anymore.

A recent national survey from Democratic-aligned firm Public Policy Polling showed Trump in first place among Republicans with 27 percent, way ahead of his closest competitor Ben Carson with only 17 percent, then Marco Rubio with 13 percent, and Jeb at 12 percent.

But in a specially tested two-way matchup, not only did Trump lead Bush — it wasn’t even remotely close: The Donald at 56 percent, Jeb at 36 percent.

By itself, Jeb being unable to beat Trump would be reason enough for GOPers who really want to stop The Donald to take some action. But it actually gets much, much worse than that.

2. As long as Jeb stays in, he sucks up time, money, attention, and resources that could go to another contender.

That survey from PPP mentioned above also tested several other two-way match-ups, with interesting results: Carson led Jeb, 52 percent to 41 percent; Carly Fiorina edged him out, 47 percent to 45 percent; and Rubio — perhaps the establishment’s last, best hope — was also ahead, 50 percent to 43 percent.

But how is Rubio doing? As a recent report in Politico showed, his campaign his flatlining from a lack of money and on-the-ground organization in the early primary states:

For all the recent buzz surrounding his candidacy — fueled by strong debate performances —Rubio isn’t raising enough money to keep pace with his rivals in the top tier and he’s running out of time to assemble a robust field organization.

“If Trump-mania subsides, you’ve got to have a mechanism and a structure,” said Chip Felkel, a South Carolina Republican strategist who isn’t affiliated with any campaign. “I think you’re being risky if you don’t put a structure in place.”

And for Rubio or any other candidate, they won’t be able to build up the money, organization, or media attention necessary to bring down The Donald — as long as Jeb is still in the way.

This also relates somewhat to my final point…

3. As long as Jeb Bush is in the race, Donald Trump has his favorite punching bag to knock around.

I have previously argued that Trump is a lot like a monkey who walks into a new troop, and then immediately punches the biggest other monkey there in order to become the new reigning alpha-male. From the moment The Donald entered this campaign, he’s been attacking the onetime frontrunner Jeb mercilessly, in ways that other candidates seemed too shy to even attempt.

Jeb didn’t fight back — perhaps wanting to remain above the fray. But instead, he has only succeeded in surrendering his position at the top of the pack. And any attempts to regain it have only resulted in Trump knocking him right back down again.

And now, to follow this simian analogy to its proper conclusion, whenever Trump might be in any trouble he can simply start whaling away at Jeb again. It amounts to a new display of pack dominance that not only keeps his followers on his side — but the constant demonstration of strength and lack of any fear might very well attract more voters to his banner.

As an example, take a look at these responses that Trump tweeted out against Jeb over the weekend:

 

If Trump can demonstrate over and over again his supremacy over the reigning establishment candidate, then the establishment needs a new candidate.

Photo: Republican U.S. presidential candidate businessman Donald Trump (L) speaks as former Florida Governor and fellow candidate Jeb Bush reacts during the second official Republican presidential candidates debate of the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California, United States, September 16, 2015. REUTERS/Lucy Nicholson

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99 Comments

  1. Paragryne October 19, 2015

    Are we absolutely positively 100% convinced that Trump isn’t a Democratic plant?

    Reply
    1. Insinnergy October 19, 2015

      If so, then he wins the Best Troll Award. For life.

      Reply
    2. @HawaiianTater October 19, 2015

      Whether or not he is doing it on purpose, helping Dems keep the WH is what he is effectively accomplishing.

      Reply
  2. Insinnergy October 19, 2015

    Poetry in motion.
    /popcorn

    Reply
  3. bcarreiro October 19, 2015

    George Bush jr. Is the worst president in history. Got that poll number. Jeb you have to defend him just like when u altered the votes. Chump wants to win not work for this country. Go without the presidents salary 400,000 if you really think you mean business.

    Reply
    1. Elliot J. Stamler October 20, 2015

      No, sorry, you’ve got to go back to the history books. Bush was not the worst president we have ever had. We have had worse..the worst being, for all time, James Buchanan. Also in terms of harm to the country, Nixon, Hoover and Franklin Pierce exceeded Bush.

      Reply
  4. @HawaiianTater October 19, 2015

    Jeb! needs to stay in the race! We WANT Trump to get the nom! Go Trump go! Win win win!

    Reply
    1. John Murchison October 20, 2015

      Why that sounds like a cynical ploy to ruin the GOP. I like it!

      Reply
      1. @HawaiianTater October 20, 2015

        You are wise, John Murchison. I consider Trump getting the GOP nom to be the best case scenario going into the POTUS election.

        Reply
        1. Paul Bass October 20, 2015

          I like your thinking, but surely Ben Carson’s space cadet religious wacko candidate would be excellent for Hillary also.
          Not to mention run HP into the ground, double down on PP lies Carly, would be eaten alive by Hillary.

          Reply
          1. @HawaiianTater October 20, 2015

            The real presidential race is between Hillary and Bernie. Whoever gets the Dem nom will be the next POTUS. If there was ever any doubt, we can thank Trump for killing any chance they had at regaining the WH. The real question is whether or not Dems will be able to take back the Senate and how much gains they can make in the House.

            Reply
          2. Paul Bass October 20, 2015

            Unlike the “stupid” party, Democrats aren’t likely to nominate anyone too far from the “center right” medium of American politics. It’s Hillary’s to lose at this point, and so far she’s looking pretty strong. Actual she only has to appear rational to be able to beat this group of clowns.

            Reply
          3. @HawaiianTater October 20, 2015

            Bernie is center left but Hillary is a centrist and so is Obama. They always have been. The reason the Republicans think they look so far to the left is because of how far the GOP has lurched to the right. I’m not so certain Hillary is a lock. Bernie has a very good chance at winning both NH and Iowa. If he does that, it could give him the momentum he needs to take the nom. I’ll give 100% support to Hillary should she get the nom but I’ll all in on Bernie in the meantime.

            Reply
          4. Paul Bass October 20, 2015

            I agree with all that you say.
            Personally I’m likely left of Bernie, but a realist. Unless the repugs can make anything stick, Hillary has it.
            I’d vote for a yellow dog, and think twice about the Devil, before I’d vote for the GOP/TP. So whoever is the Dem nominee I’m 100% for. (I’m not part of the “stupid” party I won’t say 110%)

            Reply
        2. RED October 20, 2015

          Personally, I think the perfect scenario would be if Trump got the Republican nomination and Bernie got the Democratic nomination.

          Reply
          1. @HawaiianTater October 20, 2015

            So do I. Man, can you imagine what a Sanders/Trump debate would look like? It would break all the records for ratings. They would be entertaining as hell too.

            Reply
        3. Hugh Everett October 21, 2015

          Math-savvy progressives like Nate Silver and John Judis are warning that the Democrat Party is hemorrhaging badly with white voters.

          Meanwhile, Trump is polling well with traditional democrat voting blocks.

          And not surprisingly, Trump is perceived well in economy and jobs creation.

          There’s a reason that so many liberal publications like National Memo are concerned about the Trump campaign.

          Reply
          1. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Please, please support Trump. We WANT him to get the nom. Go Trump go! Win win win!

            Reply
          2. Hugh Everett October 21, 2015

            Many Republicans will be voting for Hillary in the primaries, because she’s the worst politician in a century.

            Reply
          3. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            LMAO! Hey, I am no fan of Hillary but if you think she’s worse than Dubya or Herbert Hoover, both of whom presided over the biggest economic crashes in American history… well, let’s just say you don’t have a firm grasp on reality.

            Reply
          4. Hugh Everett October 21, 2015

            We’ll never know what kind of president she will make because she’s unelectable. She’s a horrible politician.

            Reply
          5. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            It’s all relative. No matter how bad she might be as a politician, she’s still infinitely better than what the other side has to offer. She’ll still destroy anything put up by the current GOP. In a battle of unelectable vs. complete and utter catastrophe, unelectable suddenly becomes electable. The Republicans would have to bring back someone like Eisenhower to have any chance of beating her in next year’s election.

            That said, I hope Bernie beats her in the primaries; which, BTW, is the real election. Whoever gets the Dem nom will be the next POTUS. You can bank on that.

            Reply
  5. 1standlastword October 19, 2015

    Nothing about GW’s horrible history as POTUS is going to change.

    Can Jeb continue to be in the role of revisionist while getting his brains bashed in by Trump for a whole year and hope to have a shred of credibility left for the end game?!

    I said WAY back before he announced that his campaign would be an opportunity for him to become a piñata for his brother sins…I’m so so glad I called it the way it is!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
    1. Dominick Vila October 27, 2015

      No tan maravilloso como ellos creen…

      Reply
      1. 1standlastword October 27, 2015

        Usted es senor correcta

        Reply
  6. Dominick Vila October 20, 2015

    It really doesn’t matter who the Republican nominee is. If the chosen one is one of the current field of clowns, the GOP is going to lose the 2016 election by a landslide. What most far right wingers don’t understand is that they need a candidate that satisfied the expectations of mainstream Americans, not just the ultra conservatives. It doesn’t really matter if their nominee is Trump, Carson, Jeb, or Fiorina. It is almost impossible to imagine a field of candidates more unqualified for the Office of the Presidency than what the GOP has managed to muster. When the options range from a narcissistic, immature, high school bully to a candidate who believes the man that occupied the Oval Office on 9/11/01 kept us safe, the best thing the GOP can do is to save their money and take a sabbatical.

    Reply
    1. John Murchison October 20, 2015

      Personally, I dont want the GOP to pack it up and save their cash right now. I want them to waste ever blessed dime. Perhaps Citizens United will not seem like such a good thing for then after all. I can just imagine how red faced the Koch bros are about now. How much cash will they burn up for a failed election bid?

      Reply
      1. RED October 20, 2015

        It’s a nice thought. But the problem is the cash is actually meaningless to them. Although it may be staggering sums to most people, it’s nothing to the people who have robbed our country of billions upon billions of dollars.

        Reply
        1. John Murchison October 20, 2015

          if they bleed enough cash out, even the Kochs will start to feel the pain. At their roots thay are still in the business of business. And even the biggest gamblers need a return on their investments. If they lose bad enough, they’ll cut their losses.

          Reply
    2. Elliot J. Stamler October 20, 2015

      As often, I fully agree with you, Dominick. The polarization in our country is now so acute that most people do not listen to, read, or directly engage in discussion with the other side so people think everyone is just like they are. This is, as you write so correctly, because they think there is a secret hidden majority out there just like they are. There isn’t. And much the same can be said of many – but not all – of the Sanders supporters although they are nowhere as extreme, bilious, nasty and just plain ignorant as the right-wingers.

      Reply
      1. Dominick Vila October 20, 2015

        Regardless of whether or not Sen. Sanders gets the Democratic party nomination, I believe he has already made a huge contribution to the party, and to our country. He has reminded everyone of what is really at stake in 2016, from financial inequality to the distinct probability of the Supreme Court becoming as polarized as the GOP currently is. He deserves recognition and gratitude for speaking out about issues that most politicians prefer to avoid. He also managed to influence changes in the Democrats campaign strategy, that are already becoming evident in Hillary move to the left on many issues.
        I am convinced that Hillary will be our nominee. At least in part, because of Joe Biden’s hesitancy to enter the race, and because Sen. Sanders age and the fact that most Americans do not understand the difference between a Scandinavian style socialist and a Marxist-Leninist socialist. Hopefully Hillary will pick Sen. Warren as her running mate. That would guarantee the biggest landslide in U.S. history.

        Reply
        1. Elliot J. Stamler October 21, 2015

          Dominick..here we part company. First, Hillary won’t and certainly should not pick Sen. Warren. The most obvious reason is that it will be in some ways a difficult thing to elect our first woman president but a ticket with two women on it will have no chance of election. I do not really think Sec. Clinton is moving our party to the left which as one who intensely dislikes the true left, I do not think she should. My centrist-moderate position is where she is…and really where Sen. Warren is. Both Mrs. Clinton and Mrs. Warren are centrist-liberals who, like me,are trying, as Hillary correctly put it, to save capitalism from itself..or more accurately from those capitalists who are predatory and amoral greed hogs. I also have the quaint idea that the Democratic Party should nominate only DEMOCRATS which Sen. Sanders isn’t and never has been. Had he been a lot more savvy he would long ago joined the Democratic Party and abandoned the utterly poisonous mantle of “socialist” in any form. A presidential campaign is no place to try to educate the vast majority of the electorate as to the differences between social democracy and marxism-leninism. This is not a university class in political ideologies especially when the enemy is going to spend over 500 million dollars to try to impose not just economic reaction but political fascism or near fascism on the nation.

          Reply
          1. Dominick Vila October 21, 2015

            I guess I let my emotions, and dreams, overcome logic. Yes, considering the number of Americans who oppose, or are concerned, over the idea of a female President, a Clinton-Warren ticket would not be a good idea.
            The same goes for Bernie Sanders. I love most of the things he says, but I am very concerned about his age, the fact that his acknowledged socialist preferences will make him an easy target for the GOP, and the fact that a Republican controlled House, and possibly the Senate, will not fund any of the programmatic changes he is proposing.
            Until recently, Hillary was center-right. She has moved to the center, at least in part, because of Bernie’s influence and the enthusiastic welcome he enjoys wherever he goes. Barring another last minute pseudo scandal, I believe Hillary will be the Democratic party nominee, and I am convinced she will win the general election by a comfortable margin. Too bad Joe decided not to run. He is a good man, very likable, has lots of relevant experience, and is honest.

            Reply
          2. Elliot J. Stamler October 21, 2015

            If Hillary is elected, Dominick, it is probable if he wants it VP Biden would have a prominent place in the administration. Or he might decide to return to the Senate although neither of the incumbent Democratic senators from Delaware are likely to retire.

            Reply
          3. Dominick Vila October 22, 2015

            How about a Clinton-Biden ticket? Geographic considerations aside, such a ticket would offer a level of expertise with relevant issues that even the most obtuse Republican would have a hard time denying.

            Reply
          4. Elliot J. Stamler October 27, 2015

            Dominick, I thought of this some time ago and confirmed that the 22nd Amendment would not prevent this. But I wonder if such a ticket would have some disadvantages: first, it would unduly tie Mrs. Clinton to Obama due to Biden’s presence and I think she will benefit by ARTFULLY and SELECTIVELY DIFFERENTIATING HERSELF FROM OBAMA IN SOME RESPECTS AND SOME OF HIS POLICIES. She couldn’t do that with Biden as a running mate. Second, we’d have to see polling evidence to determine if, especially to the younger voter demographic, Biden would incrementally add or detract from Mrs. Clinton’s numbers. I don’t know the answer which is why I would want to see the polling. It might be that he wouldn’t be an additive. However he would also bring some major advantages as you indicate not only in terms of gravitas but as a very accomplished campaigner. And I would hazard a guess that whomever “they” nominate for vice president would be another wing nut jerk who would be small beer compared to Biden.

            Reply
          5. Dominick Vila October 27, 2015

            I think there are more positives than negatives if VP Biden is chosen for the Nr. 2 spot in the Democratic ticket. Other choices include Sen. Warren, Sen. Sanders (who may deliver young American votes), and Gov. Brown. There are risks with all of them, but I believe their popularity, experience, and organizational skills would be an asset and may contribute to a landslide victory. Let’s face it, it is not like we are running against powerful opponents…:-)

            Reply
          6. Elliot J. Stamler October 27, 2015

            Well on your last sentence I disagree. Those people will spend up to l billion dollars…the Kochs committed to at least half of that amount. In politics (as in many other things), MONEY TALKS and in a very loud voice. Additionally it is a political fact of life re: Bernie, that we would lose the absolutely INDISPENSABLE large contributions of OUR very wealthy heavy hitters..small contributors (that’s me) are vital too but they simply are not enough money-wise to fund a modern national campaign adequately and to them Bernie is personna non grata. As I wrote, Hillary hit it on the end: it isn’t democratic socialism this country needs..it is democratic CAPITALISM. Warren is out for the reason previously dealt with and Jerry Brown is now (unlike decades ago) too remote from anywhere east of Calif. not to mention his predilection for being an outlier. I lived in Calif. during his first term as gov. decades ago. But we have lots of people…just gotta make sure they don’t have the personal deficiencies of John Edwards.

            Reply
  7. John Murchison October 20, 2015

    With the perfect balance of incompetence, arrogance, ignorance and spite the GOP candidates actively negate each other in a strangely harmonic way. How long can this death spiral go on? It’s a great cliff hanger especially if you’re voting for none of the above.

    Reply
  8. Bosda October 20, 2015

    1) Trump is correct, about W. There’s a first time for everything.
    2) Monkeys also achieve status by throwing poo at each other.
    3) OH! How I wish Barry Goldwater were running, instead.
    4) Democrats for me, again. Until the GOP becomes sane at least.

    Reply
    1. Elliot J. Stamler October 20, 2015

      You are so right. Way back in 1954 Barry Goldwater convinced me to abandon the Democratic Party of my youth and become a Republican. But it didn’t take me long to start having doubts and 20 years later I left the GOP to return to my Democratic Party horrified at what “conservatism” had morphed into…and that was in the 80’s. As I look back I see now I don’t agree with many of Sen. Goldwater’s economic views…I read PURE GOLDWATER edited by Barry, Jr. and John W. Dean but really fully written by the senator. But in terms of integrity,honor, good sense, reasonableness and a strong attachment to civil liberties, Barry Goldwater was unimpeachable. He denounced the radical right in his last years in the Senate in the strongest terms..he was the Republican Truman…my favorite Democrat whom I had lunch with in college ages ago. Today’s Republicans make Goldwater and Ike and Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt whirl in their graves.

      Reply
      1. Joe Gillis October 20, 2015

        Goldwater wasn’t perfect – who is? – but he was an honest guy and I’ve never heard a bad word about him personally. As a lifelong Democrat, I have a funny kind of admiration for him. He would hate today’s Republicans passionately.

        Reply
        1. Elliot J. Stamler October 20, 2015

          You, also, are just so right, Joe. Thanks.

          Reply
  9. Elliot J. Stamler October 20, 2015

    Both of the Bush brothers got where they were and are because of the name, money, influence and string-pulling of their father. Neither of them would have amounted to very much if they weren’t the children of George H.W. Bush. Every honest person knows this. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your patrimony but there is something very wrong in letting ancestry alone and its name-recognition substitute for accomplishment.

    Reply
  10. Pierre Curtis October 20, 2015

    Funny two GOP’ers now coming out and saying Benghazi Committee was partisan in targeting Hillary Clinton and also coming to light now is Trey’s editing of CIA reports on Benghazi. Seems now they want to reverse the damage done to Hillary? Why? Maybe their own candidates are scaring the crap out of the GOP. Maybe they see that a GOP presidential win with one of the present candidates would be the end of the GOP as they know it?

    Reply
  11. jointerjohn October 20, 2015

    The republican party made the decision years ago to pander to wild-eyed factional voters rather than govern. The Bush family hasn’t yet conceded that there is no longer a place there for a civil, rational candidate. A pragmatic grown-up has no hope of winning their nomination.

    Reply
  12. yabbed October 20, 2015

    The truth is Donald Trump is the best the Republicans have. Jeb Bush is a loser for them.

    Reply
  13. Kurt CPI October 20, 2015

    I’ve always said Jeb Bush doesn’t have a snowball’s chance despite the GOP good ole’ boys all being on his bandwagon. Democrats should be cheering him.

    Reply
  14. RED October 20, 2015

    The articles always make me laugh. Apparently we are still pretending that right wing extremists are just regular people with a different point of view instead of admitting that they are the most vile disgusting elements of our country, mostly a hate group.

    Reply
  15. Brian Loudermilch October 20, 2015

    Dumping Jeb! won’t change anything. tRump. is a Loud, Obnoxious, Racist, Misogynist, Immigrant Hater. All REQUIREMENTS for being a Rethuglycant Candidate. All he needs now is some time at the GUN RANGE shooting at Non-White targets.

    Reply
    1. 13factfinder October 20, 2015

      Einstein huh

      Reply
  16. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

    Todd! My main man! It’ll be nice to finally be able to be totally honest with you.

    Reply
    1. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

      hahaha…sheesh..why here dude?…..i see i’m surrounded by idiots LOL

      Reply
      1. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

        Because. At Breitbart I pretend to be a conservative Christian. In reality I’m an atheist liberal leaning independent. I don’t want everyone at Breitbart knowing that.

        Reply
        1. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

          why not?…you dont act like a moron in there

          Reply
          1. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            It would ruin the fun! I find it amusing to say the stupidest things possible and see who agrees with me. For example, this is from Breitbart earlier today:

            Reply
          2. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            wait wait i wanna tell you something

            Reply
          3. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I know my beard is sexy.

            Reply
          4. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            LMAO…….well, i did have this dream about you and …oh nevermind hahahaha…no it’s my red flag about Trump

            Reply
          5. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Yes, let’s talk Trump. I am a yooge fan!

            Reply
          6. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            Liar!….LOL..i can see through you like a fishing net!!

            Reply
          7. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Oh but I am. Just not for the reasons you are. I have said all along that Trump getting the GOP nom is the best case scenario for the future of the USA because it guarantees the Republicans won’t get back into the WH. There is no way in hell he can win the general election.

            Reply
          8. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            i wouldn’t bet the farm on that one….ya wanna shut up now and listen to me?? LOL

            Reply
          9. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            One more thing. I think Trump is possibly a Dem plant to ensure a Hillary victory. Hear me out. He is old friends with the Clintons. They were at his wedding. He has historically held liberal views such as universal healthcare and abortion rights. He couldn’t possibly be making the GOP look any worse if he was trying. He is pissing off the minority vote, which you can’t win the WH without. He is a smart businessman and he knows Republicans will tank the economy again. He is looking out for his own self interests by keeping a Democratic WH.

            Reply
          10. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            there is that..i know all about it…..but you know what my Litmus test is…Jesus and The Bible….so here it is, First of all Trump says he’s a Presbyterian, that denomination is dead,the people who go to those don’t know squat about scripture, and they are appointing female pastors and stuff and that goes against scripture and Gods order, i call em the “Lesbyterian” church, then they asked him what his favorite book is, he said “The Bible” (ok cool), THEN…the interviewer asked him what his favorite passage was….and he dodged the question, now any real Christian wouldn’t hesistate to at least quote John 3:16, the other issue is….he talks about himself too much, God hates pride…so…..i’m waiting for a full blown interview with a real man of God to grill him if he’s for real or not, now the Bible says things are going to worse in the End times, not better, and there would be a very charismatic leader that is going to rise up and fool even some Christians into supporting him, Barack Obama almost fits that description, with the way he panders to muslims, and Ignores and even persecutes Christians, so, if i’m going to go by the Bible….Trump coming in and saving the country does not fit with what the Bible says is gonna happen……but ya know what…i don’t worry about it too much, i’m not expecting any man to turn things around..it’s just gonna get worse until the whole world turns on Israel and God Intervenes to save humanity from itself,, proababaly a nUclear Holocaust , because scripture says if he didn’t noone would be left alive……thats where i stand on the subject of Trump…thats why i said “Cautiously Optimistic”

            Reply
          11. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            See, this is where you and me are going to have strong disagreements. You talk about God and the bible but people like Huckabee and Cruz ONLY care about tearing up the Constitution and creating a theocracy that gives special privilege to Christians. When right wingers talk about taking the country back, that’s what they mean. And they aren’t taking the country back. They want a new country. One without that damned Constitution getting in the way of enforcing biblical law. As far as that goes, I’d rather have Trump in office than any of the other Republicans simply for the fact that he is NOT religious. We need politicians who understand how to govern. What we don’t need is pastors who want to turn the country into a congregation. Sharia law is holy law. A Christian version of sharia law is no better. It’s still holy law and there is no place for that in the USA.

            Reply
          12. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            nah man…..noones trying to push a theocracy, thats never gonna happen, and dude, as a former baptist you should know that we aren’t under the law anymore…it’s all about loving people unconditionally….live and let live, i don’t know where you got those idea’s from but someone is yanking your chain, no real Christian would force you to “Convert Or Die”, thats just ridiculous…dude this country was founded on the precepts of the Bible….but not to the exclusion of anyone wanting to come here and worship whatever they want, remember it was the Pilgrims who were being persecuted in England that fled the Tyranny of the Anglican and Catholic Churches, but i dont even consider those to be Biblical in doctrine or practice at all, take the same sex marriage thing, am i happy about what the suprenme court did?…yes and no, yes because it fulfills the prophecy of Romans 1;21, so thats means this crap is all coming to end and Jesus will deal with Evil once and for all, and no because not only does God judge people, he also Judges nations, he’s blessed this nation beyond belief, and if we tell him to piss off as a nation and a culture, well….it’s gonna be like ISIS filling the void in Iraq….and Satan doesn’t treat his disciples very well…and as a person who was adopted as a baby, i can’t condone abortion with my tax dollars, that needs to stop, God Judged the caananites mostly for practicing infant sacrifice, thats a big no no to God, Satan loves the blood of innocents, ask any Satanist about it, i could go on but hopefully you know what i’m talking about,do you know who started Planned Parenthood and why?

            Reply
          13. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            If Christians would actually live by Jesus’ teachings, I would have much less of a problem with them. Jesus said take care of the poor and honor man’s law, amongst other things.

            Either way, religion has no place in politics. I need a government that is going to build roads and maintain a strong economy and protect our nation. What I don’t need is a government that uses the bible to make it’s laws.

            And you’re wrong about how this country was founded but I am really not going to argue with you about it. I’d much rather talk about how trickle down economics crashes the economy. Having biblical law is no worth to anyone if we destroy the planet and all starve to death.

            Reply
          14. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            no it doesnt say to honor mans law,it says be law abiding and don’t cause trouble, render unto ceasar what is ceasars and render unto god what is God’s an unrighteous law should not be followed,…dude, you seriously believe in that global warming crap?….really?…..you gotta see this man, it’s funny…take an 8 minute break>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr4n4

            Reply
          15. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            George Carlin is my life mentor and spiritual guide. He is the number one reason that started me on the path to atheism. So, when I tell you I know all of his material by heart, I am not exaggerating.

            Reply
          16. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            ok well then you need to see this….remember, i was around in the 70’s when everyone was screaming about the coming “Ice Age”…..it’s all about funding man…the almighty dollar so you really need to save this and watch it later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

            Reply
          17. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I’ve seen the right wing propaganda before. Fun fact: conservative parties in every other major country do not deny climate change. That is unique to the USA. It is Republicans who are owned by the Koch brothers and are paid to deny it because it would hurt the bottom line of Big Oil and they would lose their dominance over the population’s energy production. Exxon has been in the news lately because their own employeed scientists told them climate change was real decades ago and the execs swept those findings under the rug.

            Reply
          18. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            dude, that global warming swindle is a BBC documentary, the other guy is just a former Idaho state senator who mortgaged his own house to make that movie…quit getting your infomation about ford’s from a chevy dealer , if you won’t respect me enough to at least take a look at them, then i just can’t hang with ya anymore bro…respect is a two way street, i don’t BS people ok?….i trust noone until i have checked it out for myself and looked at all sides of the issues, so you have fun with those flicks and then come talk to me ok?…asta my friend

            Reply
          19. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Even if you don’t think global warming is a real thing, there are other very good reasons to want to switch to renewable resources. Not being owned by the Koch bros is a good start. We would have never been so involved in the Middle East in the first place if not for oil is another. Being able to produce our own energy is a great way to go.

            Reply
          20. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            The Climate Changes 4 times a year LOL i wont disagree with you that renewables are a cool thing, if we can make them cost effective and they don’t cripple business with overregulation and taxes, but the whole thing is built on a false premise…..that fossil fuels are causing the earth to heat up, it’s just not true, the ice core samples just don’t show that CO2 ever drove weather patterns, the sun and the rotation of the earth do, neither do the temprature records that we have been recording for the last 150 years, Al Gore has it all wrong and bass-ackwards y’now, cause he has the most invested in it, and stands to make millions!! and….. even if the planet is warming up (which it isnt, go look at the data)..you know what that means?….MORE FARMLAND UP NORTH! More food!!..you need to watch that movie, your going to feel pretty pissed off after, cause you are being suckered, lots of people are being suckered, …now you could have learned alot by now if you would quit arguing with me and give me the benefit of the doubt., thats what reasonable people do ok?……so do yourself a favor and check out those two flicks, they are not Kock Brothers propoganda

            Reply
          21. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I’m not a scientist but I do trust the scientests. I trust what can be proven to me. What I find amusing about conservatives is how much they love science until it’s something they don’t like. They love their TVs and cars and air conditioning and computers and internet and all their modern conveniences. They don’t question the scientists when they explain those things. Oh but as soon as they start talking about climate change or evolution or the age of the Earth, then the scientists are all idiots.

            Reply
          22. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            hahaha, i don’t trust scientists as far as i can throw them, they have been wrong so many times it’s not even funny, yyou didn’t hear about those guys in England who got caught manipulating the data???…..dude it’s a scam, it’s all about money, just from a different angle than you are used to, and sorry man, there just isn’t any proof for Evolution, where are all the intermediary species??, even Darwin said his theory would stand or fall on the fossil record, well when that didn’t pan out, they changed the theory to “Punctuated Equalibrium” meaning a mutuation cause the rapis the change of one species to another, which is a joke, Mutations 99% of the time are detrimental to a species, not beneficial, even the guy who supposedly dicovered the “gay Gene” was a Gay Activist and joked about how if you’re a scientist and tell the media something, they will print it as truth, that guys experiments were shown to be flawed and were never reproduced, don’t believe me?, argue with these 3Phd holding scientists then and learn the history of the whole gay gene scam>>> http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.php…it’s late man, i’ve given you some good stuff to chew on, so after you wath those we’ll talk again ok?….asta la pasta dude!!

            Reply
          23. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Good to see ya bro. Yes, we will continue this conversation later. I look forward to showing you just how wrong you are.

            Reply
          24. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            sorry man my typing is sucking tonight, tired

            Reply
          25. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Funny story. I just finished eating pasta. LOL

            Reply
          26. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            LOL….ok but you have to watch those flicks before i will hear your rebuttal ok?….i think thats fair don’t you?

            Reply
          27. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Do you not believe me when I tell you I have already seen the evidence from both sides?

            Reply
          28. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            i dont know what you have seen, don’t care, this is you and me right now, so i only know what i have shown you, and i would be curious as hell to hear your rebuttal, i’ll watch two movies and read an article that you give me after you do the same for me ok?…you have my word on it, then we’ll see what conclusions we come to

            Reply
          29. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I gotta be honest with you man. I am not going to watch some hour and a half long video of debunked propaganda. A 10-15 min vid? Maybe. What you need to understand about me is that I never take anything at face value. As a Carlin disciple, I question everything. Always. I wouldn’t have come to the conclusion I have without already having seen all the evidence and deciding for myself.

            Regardless of whether or not you want to accept the reality of climate change, what you should be able to get on board with is a cheaper alternative that can be owned and operated by the people instead of continuing to be beholden to the big energy companies.

            Reply
          30. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            it’s not cheaper……i suggest you watch those, or i will not take you seriously and you won’t have any credibility with me, i’ll tell you that right now,,,,i’ll watch a 3 hour video on any subject, cause i like to learn things….so yer gonna have to suck it up man, you can torture me later if ya want with your side of the argument, i can handle it…but if you just brush off what i show you…..sorry man that means i won’t listen to you, it’s a two way street brother, be reasonable or we’re just gonna have to find a neutral subject to talk about, and neither of us learn anything…..so whaddya want to do?

            Reply
          31. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I’m not interested in debating you on whether or not climate change is real. I view that argument as pointless. Even if it is some big hoax, that point is irrelevant to me. We shouldn’t let an argument over whether or not climate change is real stop us from advancing technologies to other things that work better and are cheaper.

            Reply
          32. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            agreed….still, the whole global warming scam is built on a false premise, and it’s going to be pivotal to any economics we may talk about, now the Agenda movie is even more important for you to watch, if you don’t want to watch it all at once, watch it in sections…..that movie blew my mind when i saw it, my first thought after was….”wow, hardly anyone knows about this stuff in this country…we are in deep trouble”

            so will you watch it or not?

            Reply
          33. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            I don’t know, man. Maybe later. I don’t see why you are so insistent on me watching it.

            It’s funny. The dangers of burning fossil fuels reminds me of smoking cigarettes and this whole idea that the tobacco companies tried to tell people it was perfectly safe. I always thought… WTF, you morons, you are burning something and inhaling it into your lungs. Anyone with half a brain could tell you there is going to be some danger to that. We are burning stuff and putting it into the environment. Even if I didn’t know the science, it seems like people’s common sense should tell them that is not perfectly safe. I mean, you don’t want a big lungful of smoke in a house fire either.

            *shrugs* I really don’t want to argue with you about the science of climate change. Neither one of us is likely to change the other person’s mind. That’s why I am trying to give you reasons to get behind clean energy that you would actually support.

            Reply
          34. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            when you decide to look at what i have to tell you, i’ll be more than happy and gracious to hear anything you have to say, until then….. we really don’t have much to talk about do we?, i will not engage in a one sided discussion….that would be pointless

            Reply
          35. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Todd, we’re a couple of chatter boxes. We will always find something to talk about.

            Reply
          36. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            hey i wanted to tell you that i wont out you to anyone at Breitbart ok?……you can have fun with your thing you do over there, no biggie to me, you’ve always been cool to me and thats what matters, i’m just a little dissapointed that you don’t think that i might know something you don’t, you can learn something from everybody if you just listen, ya gotta show the same respect you want others to give you though, know what i mean?……you don’t have to convince me green energy is probably a good thing, my whole thing is it’s just not practical in all applications , look man, it’s getting late and i have alot of work to do tommorrow, so you have a good night and catch a few waves for me when ya can ok? LOL…Later Tater!!! haha

            Reply
          37. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            “it’s just not practical in all applications”

            Yes, I agree. We should be talking about the best way to make the transition instead of arguing over whether or not it is real. You’re wrong that I am not willing to learn. There is a lot more to this conversation that we will have to continue later.

            Reply
          38. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            Good Night Guavahead LOL

            Reply
          39. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            And sign up for Twitter! Worst case scenario, I can use it to contact you. You don’t even have to get involved! Later.

            Reply
          40. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            NO! LOL

            Reply
          41. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Randomly seeing you on Breitbart once a month is not very efficient and you know it.

            Reply
          42. @HawaiianTater October 21, 2015

            Testing, testing, 1 2 3. You checking your notifications? I have an offer for you.

            Reply
          43. Toddzzilla October 21, 2015

            and heres another one that lays out how everyone is being suckered, even our parents generation………this is a must see>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UabbL4g46E

            Reply
  17. FT66 October 21, 2015

    The will of people must be respected. If their first choice is Trump, be it. Who is not aware Democracy is messy.

    Reply

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