Smart. Sharp. Funny. Fearless.
Saturday, July 23, 2016

Update below.

There are very few occasions in American political discourse that require the input of a structural engineer, but when Donald Trump took a question from Univision’s Jorge Ramos regarding his proposed United States-Mexico border wall at a press conference on August 25, I heard the clarion call:

RAMOS: How are you going to build a 1,900-mile wall?
TRUMP: Very easy. I’m a builder. That’s easy. I build buildings that are — can I tell you what’s more complicated? What’s more complicated is building a building that’s 95 stories tall. Okay?

No. Donald Trump is not a builder. Donald Trump could not build a doghouse. Donald Trump is a developer who pays what he would call “very, very smart people” to build things on his behalf. His response to Ramos’ question was meant both to exaggerate his understanding of construction and to downplay the challenges posed by his border wall project.

Though I would never classify the construction of a 95-story building as simple, it is a feat that has been achieved many times before. There are at least 30 buildings that have reached a height of 95 stories or more, according to the obsessively detailed database at SkyscraperPage.com, and there are even more in the design phase or under construction.

On the other hand, human beings have built a 2,000-mile-long frontier wall exactly one time. Once. And it was accomplished only through a centuries-long building campaign that necessitated the forced labor of millions of Chinese peasants.

The challenge of Trump’s border wall is not technical, but logistical. The leap in complexity between “building a wall” and “building a 2,000-mile-long continuous border wall in the desert” is about equal to the gap between “killing a guy” and “waging a protracted land war.” Trump’s border wall, if built as he has described it, would be one of the largest civil works projects in the history of the country and would face an array of challenges not found when constructing 95-story skyscrapers.

In order to adequately answer Mr. Ramos’ question, let’s first make some assumptions on the project’s scope: A successful border wall must be effective, cheap, and easily maintained. It should be built from readily available materials and should take advantage of the capabilities of the existing labor force. The wall should reach about five feet underground to deter tunneling, and should terminate about 20 feet above grade to deter climbing.

wall_1
Elevation view of proposed border wall. (Click to enlarge)

To be classified as a “wall” rather than a “fence,” the barrier must also be a continuous, non-porous construction. This distinction might seem purely semantic, but Trump has made himself very clear on the matter, saying, “A wall is better than fencing, and it’s much more powerful. It’s more secure. It’s taller.” So we’ll take him at his word: He wants to build a wall.

One of the biggest choices that a builder has to make is what material to use for his or her project. For Trump’s wall, I would first dismiss concrete masonry unit (commonly called cinderblock) construction because each block would have to be put in place and set in mortar by hand. The finished product would probably be acceptable, but construction would be outrageously labor intensive and therefore costly.

Next, I would dismiss steel wire mesh. While it is cheap and readily available, it can be easily penetrated by a pair of wire cutters, an angle grinder, an oxy-acetylene torch, or just a Chevy going really fast. Even though extant barrier sections along the border make use of wire mesh, the United States Border Patrol is constantly battling to repair breaches and, as stated above, this kind of barrier really falls into the category of “fence.”

That leaves concrete. A concrete wall would meet all of the basic project requirements, and as a bonus would also embody the gray-faced antipathy of America’s immigration policy. There are two major types of concrete construction:

  • cast-in-place, where wet, plastic concrete is brought in trucks to a job site, cast into formwork, and then cured; and
  • pre-cast concrete, where the concrete is cast in a controlled indoor environment, cured, and then shipped to the construction site for assembly.

The hot, dry climate in the border regions would complicate cast-in-place construction because high heat tends to screw up the chemical reactions that cause concrete to harden.

I drew up a quick design option for a pre-cast concrete wall, not dissimilar to many proprietary systems currently on the market. This design consists of I-shaped concrete columns spaced at 10 feet on center, with eight-inch-thick wall panels spanning in between them. In such a design, the only concrete that would need to be cast on site would be for the foundations. The columns would anchored to the foundations, and the wall panels are slipped in place from above.

Click to enlarge
Section cuts of proposed border wall. (Click to enlarge)

If we assume a border wall length of 1,954 miles (there are 600 or so miles of existing border barrier, but much of this would not qualify for Trump’s wall), then we can make some estimates as to the volume of concrete needed for the project:

  • Foundation: 6 feet deep, 18 inch radius = 42.4 cubic feet
  • Column: 4 square feet area by 30 feet tall = 120 cubic feet
  • Wall panels: 25 feet tall by 10 feet long by 8 inches thick = 166.7 cubic feet
  • Total concrete per 10-foot segment = 329.1 cubic feet
  • 1,954 miles = 10,300,00 feet = 1,030,000 segments (10-feet long each)
  • 1,030,000 segments * 329.1 cubic feet per segment = 339,000,000 cubic feet = 12,555,000 cubic yards. (The cubic yard is the standard unit of measure of concrete volume in the United States.)

Twelve million, six hundred thousand cubic yards. In other words, this wall would contain over three times the amount of concrete used to build the Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.

Such a wall would be greater in volume than all six pyramids of the Giza Necropolis — and it is unlikely that a concrete slab in the town of Dead Dog Valley, Texas would inspire the same timeless sense of wonder.

That quantity of concrete could pave a one-lane road from New York to Los Angeles, going the long way around the Earth, which would probably be just as useful.

Concrete, of course, requires reinforcing steel (or rebar). A reasonable estimate for the amount of rebar would be about 3 percent of the total wall size, resulting in a steel volume of 10,190,000 cubic feet, or about 5 billion pounds. We could melt down 4 of our Nimitz-class aircraft carriers and would probably be a few cruisers short of having enough steel.

But the challenge is far greater than simply collecting the necessary raw materials. All of these hundreds of miles of wall would need to be cast in concrete facilities, probably project-specific ones that have been custom built near the border. Then, the pre-cast wall pieces would need to be shipped by truck through the inhospitable, often roadless desert.

The men and women doing the work of actually installing the wall would have to be provided with food, water, shelter, lavatory facilities, safety equipment, transportation, and medical care, and would sometimes be miles away from a population center of any size. Sure, some people would be willing to to do the work, but at what price? Would Trump hire Mexicans?

This analysis also ignores the less sexy aspects of large-scale engineering projects: surveying, land acquisition, environmental review, geological studies, maintenance, excavating for foundations, and so on. Theoretical President Trump may be able to executive-order his way through the laser grid of lawsuits that normally impede this kind of work, but he can’t ignore the physical realities of construction.

Trump’s border wall is not impossible, but it would certainly be a more challenging endeavor than he would ever lead you to believe. Maybe he should stick to 95-story buildings.

Update: In the Oct. 28 debate, Trump amended his wall proposal to a mere 1,000 miles. The author responds here.

Ali F. Rhuzkan is the pen name of a professional engineer and unprofessional writer living and working in New York City. The author can be reached at [email protected].

This post has been updated.

Photo: Gage Skidmore via Flickr

  • Johnny Thorne

    Building an impermeable wall will be much easier than building an aircraft carrier.

    • Ali Rhuzkan

      If only somebody had written an article explaining why that logic doesn’t hold.

      • Looner

        LOL, you get an Internet for that answer

    • John Murchison

      On the contrary we’ve built many aircraft carriers but never have we jointly constructed thousands of miles of 25 foot wall sections. It would take decades and huge amounts of cash.

      • duif100

        What a stupid argument!
        Once we build the first mile we repeat that many times.
        We do not have to reinvent every mile!

        • John Murchison

          Its hardly stupid when we consider that we do not have a homogenous landscape of just desert land. So, yes, we would have to reinvent every so often thru thousands of miles.

          • duif100

            No we do not have to re-invent!
            All the technology needed is already available from buildings and bridges that have been built on every soil imaginable.

        • Looner

          Where would we get all that steel for the rebar? The concrete has to be reinforced you know.

          • duif100

            Melting down the guns that Obama shipped to the Mexican drug lords with his gun runner program!

          • bobnstuff

            The steel from 410 guns wouldn’t go very far.

          • duif100

            Don’t you recognize a sarcastic remark when you see one?

          • Looner

            You are an idiot…. an uninformed sheeple koolaid drinking idiot. Now know why everyone ignores you.

          • duif100

            Not true!
            Obviously YOU are not ignoring me.

      • paulyz

        We only need 1,000 miles of actual wall, which could easily be done, like they have already done on all of our Interstate highways, but made a little better. Mexico would fund this wall, & even if they didn’t, the money saved to the American People would have it pay for itself in a short time.

        • jmprint

          And you are an accountant. OMG, I feel for your clients.

          • duif100

            He is correct!
            The US spends about 150 billion per year on costs incurred because of illegal aliens.

          • bobnstuff

            We will save very little since only half come in that way now.

      • duif100

        The cash is no problem. The Mexicans will pay for it.

        • jmprint

          What an idiot.

          • duif100

            Get Mexico to pay for the wall is the easiest part.
            Simply void the
            trade agreements with Mexico and start tariffs on their products. Mexico
            will volunteer to pay for the wall if we stop this since they will not
            only pay for the wall but the wall will become a very profitable
            business for us.
            We have the leverage to make them do what we want. It is cheap to pay 10 billion/year for the wall compare to loosing 100 billion in trade with the US.

        • John Murchison

          now thats funny!

          • duif100

            Get Mexico to pay for the wall is the easiest part.
            Simply void the
            trade agreements with Mexico and start tariffs on their products. Mexico
            will volunteer to pay for the wall if we stop this since they will not
            only pay for the wall but the wall will become a very profitable
            business for us.

      • duif100

        We have built many walls!

  • Suralin

    Only 5 feet below ground? You’d need to build a lot deeper than that to prevent dedicated tunnels.

    • Ali Rhuzkan

      It’s almost like building this wall is a ludicrous solution to an imaginary problem.

      • paulyz

        Imaginary? Where the hell have you been?

      • S.J. Jolly

        Scratch out, “It’s almost like”, and you have the truth of the matter.

    • S.J. Jolly

      Down to bedrock, yes. And include sensors, to detect efforts to tunnel through the wall underground.

  • bobnstuff

    I once asked a Trump supporter who lives on the border about the wall and even he said that where he lives it wouldn’t work. Going through the mountains would be next to imposable. That was from someone who likes Trump.

    • duif100

      And that was an “expert” on the subject?

      • Looner

        How many walls have YOU seen go through a mountain?

        • duif100

          I never suggested to build a wall through the mountain.
          I would build the wall on top of the mountain.
          Only you would be so creative as building a wall through a mountain!

          • bobnstuff

            LOL

          • Looner

            How many walls have you seen go over a mountain?

          • duif100

            Too many to count.
            We only build tunnels through mountains!

      • bobnstuff

        He knew his back yard.

    • Foggydogbreath

      Huh. How did those Chinese do it before the birth of Christ. Must have been a miracle.

      • bobnstuff

        Slave labor and a lot of years. 25,000 watch towers along it. How would you like the bill to just man all those towers. You might also notice that in most of the photos there are lots of trees.

        • paulyz

          Uhh, we have much better technology now. Duhhh!

          • bobnstuff

            Yes we could get away with only 4000 watch towers or with only one person in each 24/7 about 20,000 watchers plus support staff. $1,250,000,000 per year just for the tower staff. That doesn’t cover the cost of the guys who have to go after the ladders.

          • duif100

            So what is a billion dollars when we spend more than a hundred times that much caring for illegal aliens in the form of welfare, education, healthcare, etc.
            That billion is a good investment!

          • bobnstuff

            That number does get rid of any of the ones here and wouldn’t even cut the flow of new ones in half. It also is just the manpower to sit on top of the wall.

        • Foggydogbreath

          Three groups of people built the wall: soldiers, common people and criminals. So there was an element of slave labor.

          But, you have to remember that it was built more than 2,000 years ago. Technology (i.e., machinery and materials) have improved beyond measure.

          I’m not even in favor of walling off our southern border. It’s a ridiculous proposition, but you’ll never convince me it’s an impossible or even implausible engineering feat.

          • bobnstuff

            The author agrees with you. The wall is stupid was of money.

          • jmprint

            Anything is possible, but at what expense, and isn’t that what the crying is all about, the expense of helping our neighbors.

      • Looner

        Slave labor and it took several centuries.

        • duif100

          With the tyrant we have have in the white house right now, acquiring slave labor is no problem since he treats us all like his slaves.

          • bobnstuff

            Do you ever read what you say? Are you a slave? Do you even know what a tyrant is? You can call Obama ineffective, out of touch, and weak. He can’t seam to get anything done. You can say a lot of things but come on, Tyrants get things done.

          • duif100

            How many executive orders and executive memo’s has Obama issued against the will of the people?
            Those are all tyrannical actions since as an elected person he is supposed to represent the people. He certainly has not represented me!!!

          • bobnstuff

            None, Most people support immigration reform, It’s just the uninformed right that are upset. He represents the people who elected him. not just the haters of the world. Just because you don’t understand why he did the things he did and have been told that they are wrong doesn’t make them so. As I have said you must not know what a tyrant really is.

          • duif100

            He represents ALL Americans, not just liberals.
            His tyranny involves a lot more than illegal immigration.

          • bobnstuff

            Whatever!

          • jmprint

            You liar, how does he treat YOU like a slave.

          • midmo

            So you are either a troll or someone so dumb you shouldn’t be allowed to breed. Either way, go away.

          • duif100

            Why don’t you do something useful and castrate yourself!

          • Looner

            So where is your slave uniform? Where are your shackles? How is he a tyrant? You are ridiculous.

          • duif100

            And what uniform do slaves wear?
            Any idiot (like you) can ask more stupid questions than any wise man can answer!
            Crawl back in your welfare hole.

  • duif100

    As you stated in your lecture the major wall building problems would be logistics!
    Accepting that as fact should you not have consulted a planner instead of an engineer?

    • Looner

      What is wrong with consulting both? As many people as possible. Didn’t you find it interesting how much rebar it would take?

      • duif100

        No!

    • S.J. Jolly

      Wouldn’t any sane planner consider logistics?

      • duif100

        Out of your comment I must conclude that you do not understand what “logistics” is!

        • jmprint

          Sure the government uses it all the time.

          • duif100

            I guess your at the intelligence level as S.J. Jolly.

  • greenlantern1

    Did the MAGINOT LINE stop Hitler?
    Did the ATLANTIC WALL stop IKE?
    Did the CHINESE WALL stop Mao?
    Is there a fence at Trump’s TAJ MAHAL?

    • paulyz

      Is there a fence at the White House & Capitol Building? We don’t need to stop Armies from entering, we need to stop Illegals.

      • S.J. Jolly

        There’s a much easier, humane, and far less costly to stop illegal immigration from Mexico: Open a Green Card system for Mex citizens wanting to come here to work. They would get in line if there was a line for them.

      • bobnstuff

        You have noticed that lately the fence around the White House isn’t working very well.

        • duif100

          Have you noticed that the same people who don’t want the wall are “protecting” the white house?

          • bobnstuff

            Have you noticed that with all the guards people still get over it?

      • greenlantern1

        Ever read the autobiography, NEVER AGAIN, by Bush Attorney-General John Ashcroft?
        He, NOT Eric Holder, ordered the rescue of Mexican illegal aliens!
        Where was the wrath then?

  • Blueberry Hill

    Then there are the mountains out west to consider. There are mountains of boulders the size of cars and houses, no way to build anything over them. He should take a drive along I-10 from Texas to the Pacific ocean. Not possible to build a wall. If he is so damn smart, why hasn’t he figured that out?

    ..

    • S.J. Jolly

      Trump certainly figured out all that long ago, if his advisers didn’t tell him first. What he also has figured out is that there is enough dummies in the American voting population to elect him POTUS before they figure it out.

    • Hugh Everett

      “Then there are the mountains out west to consider. There are mountains of boulders the size of cars and houses, no way to build anything over them.”The mountains act as the wall. The road running adjacent to the mountains for border security vehicles and the drones and the helicopters act as the deterrent.

    • Vic

      All things are Possible in time !!

    • duif100

      Obviously he is a lot smarter than you and has figured it out!

  • Looner

    All anyone has to do to understand the enormity of the task is go along the border on Google earth closeup.
    I lived on the border in Del Rio, TX, near Ciudad Acuña for a while. My house was across the street from the border, and just down the street was the “official” border crossing. A wall like Trump is talking about would go through people’s houses, properties, and some very rough, rattlesnake infested terrain.
    And Trump will get the Mexican government to pay for this? Riiiiight.

    • Hugh Everett

      Democrats love infrastructure projects, so this should make them very happy.The project should look more like a road for border control vehicles with fencing on each side, and drone surveillance from above.With a population of 319 million, we don’t have room for all of the desperate people who are moving here.

      • Looner

        Do you know how easy that is to go through, or over? Bolt cutters? A heavy blanket to throw over the barb wire? Jeez. That wouldn’t keep out anyone.

        • Hugh Everett

          The road is for patrol. The drones with infrared are for surveillance. The helicopters with nets are for apprehension.

    • duif100

      Get Mexico to pay for the wall is the easiest part.
      Simply void the trade agreements with Mexico and start tariffs on their products. Mexico will volunteer to pay for the wall if we stop this since they will not only pay for the wall but the wall will become a very profitable business.

  • Looner

    Another thing to consider is even if this wall was probable, personally I don’t want the possibility of being walled into a country and not be able to get out….. Especially if Trump was president.

    • paulyz

      Another liberal, false pretense, anyone could leave, just not enter. Pro-Amnesty people always state this fallacy.

      • jmprint

        No paul you are the one that is ALWAYS stating fallacy. You republicans are making this great country into a third world country by trying to keep Americans uneducated and poor.

        • duif100

          Nobody has worked harder and has done more to make this great country a third world country than Obama.
          One of his ways is by flooding the country with illegals to fill the welfare rolls.

      • Looner

        USSR …. Obviously you weren’t around when it existed, ignorant one.

    • S.J. Jolly

      Don’t worry. To save costs, Mexicans will certainly be hired to build the wall. And they will include hidden tunnels under it, and concealed doors through it. It will just cost you some pesos to escape.

      • Looner

        LOL!

    • bobnstuff

      Canada is socialist. Free health care for everyone.

      • LCR78

        So? What does that have to do with this wall? Do you what to wall off Canada too? Can’t let those socialists in either?

        • bobnstuff

          It means the GOPTP can’t head north.

      • Dominick Vila

        Nothing is free. The difference is that they are willing to pay taxes for things that benefit them, while we prefer to borrow to pay for crusades that we need like a hole in the head.

      • duif100

        If you live long enough to wait for the health care!

        • bobnstuff

          Have you tried to get an appointment with a doctor, You had best be really sick or you will be waiting for months. And then you still have to pay for it. Last year out of pocket I paid 23% of my income in doctors bills, with insurance.

    • Dominick Vila

      The biggest problems, in my opinion, are not technical or even financial (the GOP seems to find ways to fund the things they want), but what such a wall would say about us, the fact that it will not stop Latinos from entering the USA without an entry visa, and because there are more efficient ways of solving this problem, expeditiously, without turning us into a Fascist nation, and at minimal expense.
      At a time when European countries are opening their homes to receive refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and immigrants from sub-Saharan countries, the last thing we should do is erect walls to keep low paid migrants away…even if they speak Spanish and their skin pigmentation is dark.
      A tall wall simply means taller ladders or, better yet, boats to enter the USA via sea. Going to Canada, and entering the USA from there, has proven to be an easy path for European illegals.
      The best solution, however, is to understand why this is happening and do something effective to solve the problem. Immigrants come to a country – legally or illegally – to escape poverty, to provide for their families, and sometimes to escape violence or persecution. Why do so many Latinos enter the USA illegally? Because our immigration laws have no provisions to allow large numbers of semi-skilled workers to enter the USA legally. If those who enter the USA without the necessary entry visas applied for one at a local U.S. Embassy or consulate, they will never get it. And they know it. So do our government officials, and the entrepreneurs who profit from cheap labor. The solution is to change our immigration laws to reflect our labor needs. If economic sectors such as the agri-business, hospitality, and construction need, let’s say, 1 million workers to perform manual labor, and American born citizens are not interested in doing that kind of work, issue visas to Latinos – or whomever else wants to come to the USA to do that kind of work – and allow them to enter the USA legally. Why don’t we do that? Because our entrepreneurs would be obligated to pay the newcomers minimum wage, and extend minimal benefits, according to established labor laws. Doing that would impact their profits, which is why nothing has happened for decades, and nothing will happen for years to come.

      • Vic

        are you saying it would be better to send Doctors and Food and Money cards to Mexico ?? that would help them stay Home and maybe many other to want to go Home. !!

        • duif100

          Oh sure, and the the Americans would enter Mexico illegally to get the freebies there!
          Perfect solution.

      • DEFENDER88

        Your quote:
        “Because our entrepreneurs would be obligated to pay the newcomers minimum wage, and extend minimal benefits, according to established labor laws. Doing that would impact their profits, which is why nothing has happened for decades, and nothing will happen for years to come”

        My “take”:
        I am guessing this is part of the influence of money and lobbyists and their money contributions to campaigns, etal?
        And thus the effect on the law makers.
        I see that as one of the major flaws in our system of Govt.

        But I, like many, are really frustrated and feel it is way past time to change this situation. One way or the other.

        And leaning more toward trying to seal the border, somehow.
        I have been around for while (since Eisenhower) and near as I can tell EVERY Pres candidate has promised to seal the border. Dem and Repub.

        Which with the Military and technology we have, could be done to a high level without a wall.

        And would even be a good ongoing training technique for some parts of the military.

        My solution:

        Give them work permits but make them leave when they expire.

        Change the Born Citizen Law/Statute – It may have made sense long ago but seems to work against us now.

        Streamline somewhat the path to citizenship – Not to make it easy, you should have to earn it, show you will be productive, contribute etc. But make it doable.

        Guard the border like a hawk. Use this service as training for some parts of the military.

        Not to kill people but more like policing.
        Most other countries seal their borders for security reasons.
        Makes sense to me.
        Why should we not?

        Especially in this day and time of more radicals who want to destroy us.

      • duif100

        The answer is much easier!
        Eliminate ALL social benefits for illegals!

    • randyjet

      That is stupid since there is NO barrier to people leaving the US legally. You can walk,drive,fly, boat to Canada or Mexico any time you wish, though the Mexicans will insist on a visa and the Canadians will not let you in if you have a DUI or ANY criminal record of any kind.

      • midmo

        For now. With the walls in place it would only take someone with the right power to stop people from leaving.

      • Looner

        How is this stupid? If you aren’t old enough, go read a book about Soviet Russia, the USSR. They didn’t let anyone out of their country, unless they were heavily guarded. If it could happen there, it could happen here. For you to call it stupid just shows your lack of knowledge about North Korea currently, the Soviet Union, and the old policies of China.

    • duif100

      Why don’t you leave now?
      Just in case!

      • Looner

        Niiiiiice. Aren’t you just the sweetest thing. Here, let me open the door for you so you can go first.

        • duif100

          I was not the one who wanted to get out!
          YOU WERE!!!!!!
          Why wait for a dummy like me?
          GET GOING WHILE YOU CAN!

  • Foggydogbreath

    So, other than the ridiculous photo of Trump used for this article, which is always the tip off that objectivity waved bye-bye before it was written, this engineer is saying a wall stretching the southern border of the U.S. is implausible? Hmmm, the Chinese built a wall 13,000 miles long from 220–206 BC, but there’s no way we in modern times could perform a feat a tenth the size. Something’s rotten in Liberalland. Don’t challenge Trump by saying he can’t do something because you’ll lose every time.

    Some other highlights from this Liberal diatribe.

    “No. Donald Trump is not a builder. Donald Trump could not build a doghouse. Donald Trump is a developer who pays what he would call “very, very smart people” to build things on his behalf.

    (Semantics. Trump is a developer — the makes building projects happen through vision, finance and management, which is a vastly greater feat than just engineering something or pouring cement. If it wasn’t, there’d be a lot more rich developers like Trump.)

    “A concrete wall would meet all of the basic project requirements, and as a bonus would also embody the gray-faced antipathy of America’s immigration policy.”

    (Note the politically motivated sarcasm. In fact, the U.S. has THE HIGHEST immigration rate of any nation on earth. We allow for 700,000 people to immigrate every year.)

    “This wall would contain over three times the amount of concrete used to build the Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.”

    (Really? Qualitative? Howabout not allowing more than a million people to suck off the tax payers’ teat, commit crimes and lower the standards of living. That’s pretty qualitative.)

    • Looner

      The Great Wall of China is 2,000 miles long, not 13,000. The article addressed this, which proves you didn’t read it. Trump has also gone bankrupt 4 times, and had to sell his FAILING casino. He also tried to swindle the Scottish out of protected marshlands, just to build a golf course in their country. You think he owns those buildings his name is on? LOL! He is a freaking real estate developer.

      • paulyz

        Hey dummy, the Great Wall of China is over 13,000 miles long!

        • Looner

          Hey dummy, there is 3988 miles of ACTUAL WALL.

          • paulyz

            Didn’t you claim 2,000 miles already, DUMMY. Please use you own words.

          • Zengo

            And how did that wall in China work for them?

      • Foggydogbreath
    • S.J. Jolly

      The Chinese DIDN”T build a 13,000 mile-long wall in 14 years! That would have taken the labor of the entire Chinese nation, and maybe more. Per Wikipedia: “Especially famous is the wall built 220–206 bce by Qin Shi Huang, the first Emperor of China.” which is what you are thinking of The article doesn’t state how much wall Huang built, but it certainly involved joining together sections of older walls. The entire wall, with branches, built over centuries, is 13,171 miles (by best study).
      A wall by itself wouldn’t be at all effective without being garrisoned, which means watchtowers, barracks, transport roads, etc. And then there’s maintenance, if you want the wall to last more than a decade or so. Ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching !

      • plc97477

        If we can get haliburtin to do it, we can spend even more for it.

    • S.J. Jolly

      “How about not allowing more than a million people to suck off the tax payers’ teat, commit crimes and lower the standards of living.” Yes, we really need to rein-in the 1% !

      • Vic

        Stopping the 1% and the Illegals would save enough to build the wall..

    • jmprint

      Then gather up all your ancestors and ship them back to England or Africa.
      90% of those immigrants do not come across the Mexican border, they fly in. Is your wall going to be high enough to keep those plane from landing.

      • duif100

        Go check your numbers.
        They are wrong!!!!!

    • RED

      Wow!! Just the unbelievable inaccuracy of your description of the Great Wall of China shows us exactly the caliber of people supporting Trump, ignorant morons from the very bottom of humanity. A little knowledge for ya, the circumference of the Earth is around 25,000 miles, so a 13,000 mile long wall would have been quite an achievement, especially if it somehow managed to CROSS OCEANS!! But like so many of the thoughts and ideas of those afflicted with the terrible Con sickness, it’s pure made up fairy tales passed from one moron to the next.

    • hmna

      A 13,000 mile wall would stretch from the North Pole to the South Pole, with some length left over. Just saying.

  • paulyz

    Anybody driving along any Interstate Highway, where there is nearby housing development, can see miles of precast concrete walls quickly going up. Trump stated that there would be approx. 1,000 miles of this wall built. This isn’t rocket science, & would pay for itself in a short time by money saved from cost of Illegals.

    • Looner

      That wall wouldn’t keep out anyone. I live in California and we have that wall along the freeway … It certainly isn’t a 1,000 miles of uninterrupted 20 ft wall. Guys jump the one along the freeway all the time smh

      • paulyz

        A variation of the freeway walls would be undertaken, adding barbed wire on top, along with cameras, sensors, & the border patrol surely would. All you pro-Amnesty, open border people always have negative responses because you don’t WANT it done.

        • Eleanore Whitaker

          Oh you mean like the German concentration camps? Barbed wire, hotsy totsy elites with big bucks to buy bigger and bigger phony estate style home they hope makes them look like 1%ers?

          • duif100

            Concentration camps were designed to keep people in.
            We design to keep them out!

      • duif100

        Are you an illegal immigrant?
        You sure sound like one!

        • halfwayin

          Just like the Reds during the Eisenhower years, There is a Illegal under every bed.

        • Looner

          Riiiiiight. I’m an illegal immigrant. You keep telling yourself that. I guess I am, seen as my ancestors back in the 1700s didn’t apply for citizenship when they came over from England and Germany. So yeah, I’m an illegal.

          • duif100

            I am definitely in favor of deporting you!

      • Vic

        Like I said earlier just dump sharp Jagged Rocks on the US side.. at least they won’t try to jump !!

        • Looner

          Unless they have nice climbing gloves and boots.

    • Eleanore Whitaker

      Oh really? Do tell us boy genius, what it will cost with tens of thousands of newly developed land that no longer has trees or root systems to hold back massive floods. Or..tell us boy genius just how much of our natural resources will last under the strain of McMansions greedy developers like Trump build to make big bucks. For every 3300 square foot home built by land developers, those 4 bathrooms, outdoor kitchens and sprinkling systems drain the water supply.

      I don’t know who you think you are fooling with your rah rah land developer BS. But, it certainly is not someone like me whose state of NJ has turned from a Garden State into a Garden McMansion state where homes sell at the very least for $500,000.

      Men like you only see dollar signs. Never the damage your greed does to the environment or our kids futures. And, why don’t you tell the truth bubble boy? The connection between land developers like Trump, building contractors who don’t always build to code or compliance, lawyers and banks is like the Brotherhood of Mafiosi.

      • Notice Eleonore only talks about greedy MEN. In Eleonore’s world, there are no greedy women.

        • Eleanore Whitaker

          Okay big mouth…Tell us then…How many Greedy Women are there in the same number as men? Can’t can you?

          I count Carly Fiorina as a GOP suck up who was willing to sell her soul and likely her body to any CEO who needed a few minutes of “get off” time. She lies like any CEO lies. So does Daddy’s little girl Annie Fannie Coulter. It’s easy for rich bitches to hold out their hands while Daddy fills it with money. I do believe though they call greedy women golddigging prostitutes when they do that.

          What do they call greedy male suck ups?

          • Is Carly the only one you could think of? My first thought would be Hillary Clinton. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Democrats aren’t greedy.

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            How is Hillary greedy? Both she and her husband are not among the wealthiest US presidents. If you check the list on Google, you’ll see that the Mutton Chops presidents list in the top 5 of the wealthiest.

            The reason for Clinton wealth is hard work. Most of their wealth comes from writing books as in the former President’s case.

            Hillary and Bill Clinton both donate most of their speaking fees to their Clinton Foundation which supports the international initiative to end poverty.

            So..BIG mouth. Tell us what the failed, token woman of the GOP has done with her new found wealth. She layed off tens of thousands of workers at HP and then gave herself tens of millions in added salary, benefits and bonuses. Most sane human beings call THAT greed. You don’t.

            Time for you to get off that corruption you have feasted on for far too long. Your corruption only shows that men like you think you can always get away with it all the time. Think again. Your judgement is seriously clouded if you think you can pit Hillary vs. Fierce CEO Fighter Fiorina.

          • duif100

            All the gold diggers who marry men for money.
            That is most of them!

          • David

            Uhh….Bill Clinton?

          • Eleanore Whitaker

            Once upon a time, there was a Cowboy Texas Moron named David. He needed a piece of tush. So, he figured, since no woman would give him a second look, he’d play the sequined, snake booted Gilly’s style cowboy. He hooks a big haired, big boobed wife only to find out she’s dumber than a donut. So..off David goes, chasing any skirt he can get his syrupy hands on. Until…his baldness starts and the big haired big bazongas Texas babes see those lines in his face from years of boozing and livin’ La Dolce Vita.

            Cowboy David wakes up from a long drunk binge and sees what the Big Hair Texas Dixie Belles all see…a washed out old man whose best years are gone.

            So…are you ready for this folks? David GETS RELIGION. He thumps that Bible to make up for his wayward youth. Not enough religion on the planet to absolve this sinner. So, he gets into preaching and converting others…Texas style. Convert or end up with a gun up your butt.

            Sound familiar Davy Crockett?

        • duif100

          In Eleonore’s world there are only stupid women!

      • duif100

        Get off your green horse. It is the biggest scam in human history!

    • halfwayin

      Fences just do not work. They are monuments for stupidity.

      • duif100

        Set a machine gun up on the other side and shoot to kill.
        I guarantee that it works!

        • Jane

          You mean like the Berlin Wall? Would that make you happy?

          • duif100

            Yes, it is their choice. We are not forcing them to break our laws and climb over our walls.
            One day of enforcement will prevent a lot of problems later.
            The nuclear bombs worked, didn’t they?

      • Vic

        All they have to do is dump sharp jagged rock on the USA side.. that will slow them down…

        • halfwayin

          Pillows! All the jumpers will have to do is drop pillows on top of your rocks.

  • duif100

    For every engineer who finds building Trump’s wall is implausible, we can find one another one who disagrees!
    So what is the point of that entire article?

    • jmprint

      FInd one engineer that can prove this article is incorrect. Just one.

      • duif100

        That is easy.
        I am an engineer and I am one of them who can!

        • halfwayin

          Being an engineer of toy trains does not count.

          • duif100

            I agree!

        • jmprint

          How many mexicans do you think will want to work on a fence that is meant to keep them out. How many of our children that sit in front of the tv all day do you think would want to work on a labor intense project in 110 heat? Who would be your labor force, would you import more asians? And please name one project that you have accomplished, that would warrant an approval.

          • duif100

            I only look for approval from people I admire and respect.
            You are not one of them!

        • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

          Okay, show us your calculations that prove it’s viable and economical, then

          • duif100

            Take a look ate the major building projects that have been accomplished in the last 50 years and bow your head in shame!

          • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

            None of those major building projects are a 2000-mile long privacy wall largely in the middle of nowhere, so I don’t really see how that’s a relevant defense

          • duif100

            Look at the various construction technologies and methods used for these projects and then see how a simple wall is no problem at all.
            Were you born yesterday?

          • duif100

            It is useless to present my calculations to someone who cannot add 1+1.
            Please show me the post where I offered to present such calculations and I will do so.

        • LCR78

          Then get to it. I would like to see your alternative. The one presented doesn’t have a complete cost estimate, so do a complete estimate while you are at it. Also, remember that you have to add enough to the estimate for unknowns since you don’t have an lot of knowledge about access or geology through much of mountains and deserts of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Also, you will be building in wall in the sand dunes through some of southern CA, which ought to be an interesting effort.

          • duif100

            The issue you presented is to prove the article incorrect.
            There is no technical reason why the wall cannot be built.
            You know it and that is why you so quickly change the objective.
            First let me state that you have absolutely no idea about my engineering abilities and what I am capable of doing.
            You have taken the liberty to limit my capability to yours and are totally wrong in doing so.

          • LCR78

            I don’t doubt that its technically possible to build a wall along our southern border or even that you or any number of civil engineers that I know can build it. What I want to see is an cost estimate. I worked for 35 years in construction and I know that the costs of civil engineering projects are most often vastly underestimated. I doubt is that many who advocate a wall, are willing to pay for it.

          • duif100

            You are changing the subject because you lost the debate!

        • Ultraberg

          “Prove”

  • dog lover

    Whatever the negatives and positives are I have 200% faith in Trump. Nobody gives Trump a break. Very sad.

    VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

    • halfwayin

      “Nobody gives trump a break” except for the bankruptcy courts.

      SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

      • dog lover

        All business do it including mine. So what. Fiorina any different,Bush any different.

        • RED

          Nope, they’re all criminals!!

        • anothertoothpick

          Correction, All failed business do it.

          • dog lover

            Your wrong. 10’s of thousands of businesses failed the last two years of your idol Hussain Obama crashed our economy. More than 97% never restarted. Debate facts not your personal feeling and cynical thoughts.SHHH,SHHH,SHHHHHH!!!

            VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

          • anothertoothpick

            Fun fact; more net jobs where created under Obama than both bushes combined.

            ARFF ARFF

    • jmprint

      Sure if you want a communist country, go for it.

      • dog lover

        Take your blinders off and ser what’s happening to my country before you make senseless posts.

    • drdroad

      Your post says less about Trump than what is says about you.

      • dog lover

        What your telling mr about you is you VOTE both elections for Obama.

        • anothertoothpick

          Well, after 12 million new jobs, a stock market that has more than doubled, deficits that have been cut by two-thirds, health care inflation at the lowest rate in nearly 50 years, manufacturing coming back, auto industry coming back, clean energy doubled I could go on and on. Let’s not forget that we were loosing 750,000 a month under dubya. And I will bet you voted for him twice.

          • dog lover

            Tell me about the prime interest rate in a slump for the last three years, New housing in a decline,small businesses out of business and middle class income down $10,000 yearly income. If your gonna post comments get your facts correct first.

          • anothertoothpick

            As soon as we are loosing 750,000 jobs a month like dubya, look me up.

          • duif100

            Claims only a foolish idiot can make.
            After 7 years the economy is still at the “new normal” of being lousy!
            The national debt has doubled and Obama has only reduced his own record deficit.

          • anothertoothpick

            As soon as we hit 8.2 million foreclosures like dubya give me a call.

          • dog lover

            I will including two million Americans still outta work. Your #’s only reflect filling list job openings because your idol Hussain Obama created in his first four years. What does Dubai have to do with what were discusing. You what your really boring me BORING BORING BORING.

            vote TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

          • anothertoothpick

            The next time US taxpayers have to bail out Wall Street to the tune of $TRILLIONS.
            get back to me

            Arf arf.

          • dog lover

            Everyone one of my co-workers say your a joke. Some are still laughing as I’m typing this. Go away! Shhh shhhh. Go away please. Wasting my time and my lunch.

            VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

          • halfwayin

            They are laughing at you.

            You are just too damn stupid to Know it.

          • duif100

            I am waiting for another 97 million to be forced out of the labor force!
            Who is then going to pay for your welfare check?

          • anothertoothpick

            Elect a repiglikn and your wait will soon be over.

            For now you will just have to suffer with 200,000 jobs created a month.

          • duif100

            If that is what it takes, i will certainly vote Republican!
            Thank you for your advice!

          • duif100

            And what will you do when I call you?
            Join the Muslims invaders in Europe to get a free welfare check?

          • duif100

            I would have voted for him three times if I had the chance.

          • anothertoothpick

            I believe it.

            The last thing a stubborn wrong headed republican will ever do is admit how wrong they are. And that is why this country is so backwards

      • duif100

        The same can be said about your post!

      • Ultraberg

        “I believe what I believe, in spite of evidence.”

  • jmprint

    Back about two decades ago I read an article about out of body experiences. In that article a military serviceman was in another country and had gone to a bar to have a drink, when he got up to go home he noticed commotion at the door. When he got outside at the doorstep he noticed that a person lying there on the floor looked just like him, and then he noticed that the sprinkle from the rain were going right through his skin, he realized then it was him dying. He was saved and the military decided to do experiments on him with mind time capsules. He was able to see what it would be like in 2000, 2010, 2020, 2030 all they way up to 2060. He made predictions that have already happened and are happening. Beside the tatoos, gender in difference and the shortage of teacher and nurses and climate change, there were others, I wish I had kept that magazine. What stands out the most is that he said that the tides would get so high that the Cities of Houston and Corpus Christi would become ghost towns, because the salt would deteriorate the construction, buildings and land. So he says the government builds a wall, a huge wall, but is was a waste of time and money, because it didn’t work.

    • duif100

      You can sell anything to an idiot!

  • halfwayin

    Mexicans do not take anybody’s jobs.

    • duif100

      They do not take wall street jobs from Americans but do take a lot of the manual labor jobs and not just in the fields picking crops. (Construction, painting, etc)

      • Independent1

        Not true. virtually every job immigrants take, including illegals, are
        jobs AMERICANS WILL NOT DO!! In fact, immigrants actually help boost the pay of native born-Americans and do work that actually creates jobs.

        See this:

        Left and Right Agree: Immigrants Don’t Take American Jobs

        That immigrants take the jobs of American-born citizens is “something that virtually no learned person believes in,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, said at a Thursday panel. “It’s sort of a silly thing.”

        Most economists don’t find immigrants driving down wages or jobs, the Brookings Institution’sMichael Greenstone and Adam Looney wrote in May. In fact, “on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans,” they write. Foreign-born workers don’t affect the employment rate positively or negatively, according to a 2011 analysis from the conservative American Enterprise Institute. And a study released Wednesday by the liberal Center for American Progress suggests that granting legal status to undocumented workers might even create jobs.

        The CAP study, led by the visiting head of the Washington College economics department, sought to predict what would happen under immigration reform. The researchers considered a handful of scenarios. In each, it was presumed that the nation’s 11 million undocumented immigrants would be immediately granted legal status. They then looked at the effect of those undocumented immigrants not being granted citizenship at all over a decade, getting it immediately, or getting it in five years.

        Legal status alone would lead to the creation of 121,000 extra jobs annually over the next 10 years, they found. Getting citizenship within five years would increase that to 159,000 jobs per year. And receiving both legal status and citizenship this year would create an extra 203,000 jobs annually.

        http://news.yahoo.com/left-agree-immigrants-dont-american-jobs-083105200–politics.html

        • duif100

          Ask McCain!
          He got buried with applications from Americans when he claimed Americans would not do the work illegals did!
          It backfired on him!.

          • Independent1

            If the report was true, any applications McCain got were from politically motivated conservatives trying to create just one more misconception.

            When Alabama enacted the strictest anti-immigrant legislation in the nation during the Great Recession, it was only 4-6 weeks before companies started blasting the Alabama legislature because farmers were saying their crops were rotting in the fields due to the lack of people who would harvest them so they would either have to leave the state or go bankrupt (they could not find replacements). And even contractors in Tuscalusa who were trying to repair the city from tornados said that because they couldn’t get native-born Americans to do the grunt work, that repairs to the city would take much longer than originally projected or may not even get fixed.

            Alabama even tried to get farmers and construction companies to use prisoners to do the work that the immigrants were doing, and after about 2 weeks, the farmers and construction companies said NO THANKS!! The prisoners wouldn’t come close to doing the level of work the immigrants had been doing.

          • JoeLorenzo

            That is because the Alabama farmers were competing against other farmers from other states who did not have this law. If the law was applied evenly then it would work. Of course, the better law would be to have a guest worker program with a pre-defined time to go back tied to the paycheck. Like we used to have.

        • JoeLorenzo

          Hey, if I opened up the papers and it said “earn $20,000 next month for picking fruit during harvest”. I would consider it.
          Would fruit cost more? Yes.

          • Independent1

            No sorry. You’ll never see anything like that because if farmers, fruit growers etc., had to pay those wages, the crops or fruit trees wouldn’t even be economically feasible to grow. Farmers/fruit growers are not like companies that retail a variety of products – like Elizabeth Warren proved McDonalds could afford to pay a $10.10 min wage, just by adding 4 cents to the price of one combo meal. Farmers/fruit growers generally only grow or really produce one product – so they have to pass on every wage increase direct to the consumer. So doubling/tripling the wage, would make the produce/fruit they grow so expensive it would be unmarketable.

            And the Alabama farmers weren’t essentially competing with anyone except the price that grocery stores and other retailers would be willing to pay for the produce for their farms. So without the cheap labor immigrants, including illegals, were willing to provide – their farms would be ‘dead in the water’.

            Here’s an an excerpt from an article published on writebeat.com by someone who knows more about this issue than I do, pointing out that without that cheap immigrant labor, America would not be the world leader in exporting strawberries:

            From writebeat.com:

            During some immigration related television interview I once heard a farmer say “In my thirty years I’ve never left fruit on the vine.” What he means is that without access to cheap labor, the cost to remove the strawberries is greater than the value of strawberries. What alternative does he have than to leave the fruit on the vine?

            If those strawberries had to be picked by legal residents the cost of picking them would skyrocket. If the cost skyrocketed we probably wouldn’t be the world’s leader in strawberry production as we are now (Top 5 Strawberry Producing Countries). In being the world’s leader, there are many high paying jobs in the strawberry industry that legal residents fill such as trucking, marketing, management, sales, warehousing, etc. Not to mention the economic benefits we receive when we export strawberries versus if we had to import strawberries. All of this is made possible thanks to the strawberry industry’s access to cheap labor. And don’t for one second think the strawberry industry is the only industry which depends on illegal immigrants for its existence.

            Furthermore, because illegal immigrants work for less, the products and services we consume are cheaper. That means we all enjoy a higher standard of living than if we didn’t have access to their labor. So the question becomes, knowing the ways we benefit from illegal immigrant labor, do the benefits exceed the costs? I say “yes” but the following arguments have been waged to argue otherwise:

          • JoeLorenzo

            You lie. And furthermore, I don’t want to subsidize the strawberry growers by paying all the welfare for the 75% of these workers who are on welfare. I would rather just pay more for the strawberries.
            So you want the strawberry growers to have access to cheap labor, and I have to pay the food, rent, medical subsidies for these people to be here through higher taxes?
            No thank you. I wish the strawberry growers no ill will, but their labor problem is exactly that. Their problem.

          • Independent1

            You’re clearly just one more misguided delusional American who believes the right-wing propaganda about immigrants.

            The CBO did an extensive study and concluded that taxpayers are paying very little to provide illegal immigrants with the services they need beyond what they’re spending to provide those services to native-born Americans. So that the benefits illegals provide to the country far outweighs the taxpayers’ costs.

            The CBO estimates that 55-70% of illegals pay billions in income and payroll taxes. They contribute over 12 billion into social security, which since they can’t get the benefits, those billions are helping extend the life of SS. The same is true for Medicare.

            In addition, immigrants, including illegals, actually create and run 35% of America’s small businesses which employ millions of native-born Americans. In addition, the work they do on farms and construction companies and travel related businesses – actually supports millions more native-borns. it’s estimated that each illegal, supports the jobs of 1.2 native borns – so about 15 million Americans are working today, only because we have 11 million illegals in the country.

            Here’s an article you need to read which outlines the assessment from a right-leaning think tank, of the devastation that would take place in the American economy, if an idiot like Trump got his way and actually tried to deport all the illegals. The devastation to the economy would make the Great Recession look like a walk in the park.

            Here’s just a brief excerpt from an article in thestreet.com:

            The American Action Forum, a right-leaning policy institute based in Washington D.C., estimates that immediately and fully enforcing current immigration law, as Trump has suggested, would cost the federal government from $400 billion to $600 billion. It would shrink the labor force by 11 million workers, reduce the real GDP by $1.6 trillion and take 20 years to complete (Trump has said he could do it in 18 months).

            “It will harm the U.S. economy,” said Doug Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum and chief economic policy adviser to Sen. JohnMcCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. “Immigration is an enormous source of economic vitality.”

            The impact would be felt on both supply and demand.

            A number of industries that depend heavily on cheap immigrant labor would be devastated — especially agriculture. “There would be an abrupt drop in farm income and a sharp rise in food prices,” said John McLaren, professor of economics at the University of Virginia with
            expertise in international trade, economic development and the political economy.

            Companies that sell to the immigrant population would be affected as well, leading to decreased revenues for local businesses and a loss of American jobs.

            http://www.thestreet.com/story/13335121/1/if-donald-trump-was-president-here-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

          • JoeLorenzo

            You don’t get it. I don’t want to pay for the strawberry growers help. I don’t hire these guys. So let’s make the rules, follow them, quantify the costs and benefits, and move forward. Just don’t make me pay for the farmers help with welfare. The farmer should pay what these people need to live. And the consumer of strawberries should pay what the strawberry actually cost.
            I’m tired of this screwy math you want me to live by. GFY.

          • Independent1

            Your the one that doesn’t get it – without the work that illegals do to not only spur the economy, but actually increase our population where otherwise it would be decreasing, you would be in far more economic devastation than justt paying the small amount of taxes you’re paying to subsidize all that the illegals do to even keep YOU WORKING!!

            Like so many delusional Americans, you just can’t see that without the illegals willing to do all the work they do for us, you and I may well be standing in a bread line today, and you wouldn’t be having to worry about your tax money – because you wouldn’t have any money that was worth anything to worry about!!! Wake up!!

          • JoeLorenzo

            Hey shbird— Get this through your head, I don’t think “more people” are the answer to my problems. I don’t know anyone who does. There is far more to my life than “spurring economic growth” And no, I’m not going to be standing in a breadline if we build a border wall or send some people back. However, I may pay a few dollars more for a car wash. Lol. Get a grip.

      • Independent1

        On top of what I just posted, when Alabama instituted it’s ‘strictest in the nation immigration law’, it only took 4-6 weeks for the Alabama economy to fall into shambles. Because native-born Americans would not do the work of the immigrants who fled the state, farmers across the state started threatening to either leave the state or said they would have to go bankrupt because their crops were rotting in the fields.

        Construction companies trying to repair tornado damage in Tuscalusa, said projects they were working on would either take months longer to get done or would not get done at all because native-born Americans refused to do the backbreaking labor of digging footings/ditches what have you and hauling bricks, shingles and other heavy construction materials.

        On top of all that, there are actually companies that would not be in business if it weren’t for the cheap labor that immigrants, especially illegals are willing to provide. Farmers who grow blueberries in my state would go out of business if it weren’t for the immigrants who work long hours for peanuts in their fields. Many crops would simply not be worth growing because getting them picked by native-born Americans would cost so much people wouldn’t buy them in the stores.

        • duif100

          Nonsense!!!

        • JoeLorenzo

          The Alabama economy never went to shambles. Knock off the BS.

      • vin b

        Find me any out of work American and ask them if they are willing to do field labor for a farm. If you find any, I can guarantee them a seasonal job for life just like any Mexican illegal.
        There have been farms in the US who refused to hire illegals, raised their wage offerings to above minimum wages to entice US citizens to apply and spent their own money advertising jobs available along with relocation funds to hire US workers to do these jobs. You know what happened? Those farms had to shut down because they could not find enough workers to stay in business.

  • Hey engineer, you missed the obvious drawback. What takes longer to build, a 20′ high wall or a 25′ long ladder?

    • Ultraberg

      If they get to the top, can they grab the Money in the Bank briefcase?

    • duif100

      Genius, they have to get down somehow!
      If the drop on the other side of the wall is long enough they can fall down all they want. Nature and gravity will take care of the rest of that problem!

      • Tie a rope to the top of the ladder. There, that wasn’t hard was it?

        • duif100

          And you are going to maneuver a 25 foot ladder while sitting on top of that wall.
          We don’t have to shoot you because you will drop dead all by yourself on the way down.

          • No, no. Climb UP the ladder, tie the rope to the top rung and climb DOWN the rope.

          • duif100

            That way you are an easy target to shoot for a long time!

  • billh

    Insanity! A five foot deep foundation is nowhere near deep enough to prevent tunneling. Twenty feet high is nowhere near high enough to prevent climbing over. The primary effect of such a wall would be to mess up wind patterns on both sides for several miles, and destroy wildlife migration patterns. Plus it would do little to impede illegal border crossing. As a brilliant Chinese American Nobel Laureate once told me, the Great Wall of China was a failure because: “It’s always possible to pay someone to open the gate”

  • randyjet

    Building a wall is stupid since the whole idea of any barrier is to slow down any crossers, NOT to be impregnable. A fence with razor wire is perfectly adequate. This engineer needs to remember that we built the ALCAN highway which is about the same length in FAR worse terrain and conditions in EIGHT MONTHS.

    • mikes2653

      Well, of course what we also need is a strong, well-trained Border Patrol.

      The Border Patrol used to field numerous pistol champions, such as Col. Charles Askins, Bill Jordan, Skeeter Skelton, and others. They gained their expertise on the job. Put a comparable force on the job today, and revive the Eisenhower-era repatriation program “Operation Wetback.” It worked! See:

      http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

    • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

      The question was about the feasibility of a wall, because Trump promised a wall.

  • What would work is a strip of land about 200yds wide running from Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean on the American side of the US-Mexico border. Signs along the border would warn of landmines.

    Graphic videos of hapless victims missing feet and hands, crying out, writhing in agony would be aired on Mexican television.

    The cost = signs + landscaping for the strip and ongoing maintenance + TV production + actors and makeup artists (gory wounds) + enough cops to arrest those who make it through the ‘minefields’. Migrants would not know whether there were any real mines or not at the border or not. Most would not be willing to take the chance.

    • Ultraberg

      Fake landmines only work once. If word reached any media outlet in South America that we were doing this, it’d go two ways:
      A) UN Sanctions (for violating anti-landmine treaties)
      B) People find out it’s a bluff, which’d happen anyway. Someone throws a blanket over the signs, the next person gets across and sends a text home.

    • Pat

      Landmines are outlawed by the Ottawa Treaty and though the US didn’t sign it your suggestion to use them on civilians is deplorable. So let’s look at this. Videos of war crimes will deter some, bit not all Mexicans from attempting to cross the border. In your scenario they will either be maimed or killed by landmines creating an international crisis and hundreds dead. The other option is that there are no landmines, people call the bluff and cross unchecked. Good plan.

      • This has been done before, I’m not making anything up. The so-called ‘Iron Curtain’ between the Warsaw Pact nations and the rest of Western Europe was lightly guarded and largely unmined. But very few took the chance to find out for themselves whether a particular section was open. The (small) risk of death, magnified by uncertainty, produced the desired results rather than the application of force. These sorts of things work on the mind rather than acting against the body, they also don’t cost very much.

        The presumption is the migrants are sentient, not zombies that must be physically contained or massacred.

        BTW: the US border along with others in the world will be militarized, there is no doubt about it. We have (vastly) overpopulated Terra Firma, there are rapidly diminishing resources, we’ve squandered our precious capital in automobiles along with all the crap that goes with them. Countries will not accept the tidal wave of migrants to certain to come; they will let them die in their own countries.

        As for UN, nobody cares about them now, who will care what the UN thinks in the (very near) future?

        If you want to do something that will positively affect the greater world, GET RID OF YOUR CAR.

  • Timmi

    Even if he does get elected there ain’t gonna be any wall. He just said that. It’s only rhetoric that panders to folks innate xenophobia.

  • Philip

    “should take advantage of the capabilities of the existing labor force.”

    So the Mexicans Trump wants to prevent from entering the country?

  • Rudicron

    Hey, a wall worked for East Berlin.

    • Ultraberg

      Then why was everyone trying to escape?

      • Rudicron

        Because they believed (with good reason) that their lives would be better on the other side?
        Same (general) reason people cross the border into the US.

        The difference between the Berlin Wall and the Trump Wall is direction (out vs in); they are both intended to prevent people from moving to a better life.

        • mikes2653

          Foreigners have no absolute right to enter the United States, just as U.S. citizens have no absolute right to enter Mexico, Canada, or any other country. National borders exist for a reason.

          Immigration is neither unconditionally good or bad. It must be managed in the interest of CURRENT U.S. CITIZENS, which means limits on both the number and the quality of immigrants. This is a point of view that would not have aroused any controversy until quite recently.

          Now we have an unholy alliance between the Democratic Party establishment, which sees unlimited immigration as a means of diluting the native-born population and importing a large number of future Democrats; and the Republican Party establishment, as typified by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which sees unlimited immigration as a source of cheap labor. The only interest that is forgotten here is that of the vast majority of the American public.

    • Jane

      You’re kidding right? The Berlin wall was one of the most cruel and repressive moves against basic human rights in Europe since WWII. And it lasted for 28 years.

  • ham hock

    Lets face it, racist conservatives just hate anyone who isnt themselves. They have no empathy, compassion or even basic human decency. These are the people who would rather round up homeless people in work camps or eliminate them all together rather than give them any kind of help. These are the people who say Jesus is the best thing ever, but refuse to give people basic human rights, or any help out of the crippling poverty their money grubbing policy creates. They just want all the mexicans gone, and they dont even see the irony of their forefathers killing off all the natives and themselves having the gall to tell people they cant come here because they make things worse for REAL AMERICANS. They are disgusting. Just goes to show that just because you are a religious zealot, it doesnt make you an intelligent, or moral human being.

  • mikes2653

    Israel has a very successful wall, and also is quite careful about maintaining the ethnic balance it desires among the immigrants it admits.

    Why is it OK for them, but not for the US?

    • ham hock

      The legal genocide committed by isreal is only ok to conservatives. To rational people, what isreal does is utterly abhorrent.

      • mikes2653

        We’re not talking about genocide. We’re talking about a wall to keep people out, not about killing people.

        • Independent1

          What you probably don’t realize is that the existing wall has already killed people. How? By separating some very less fortunates from what had been their source of food and livelihood. And by creating a number of flooding situations that had never occurred before it was built – trapping people in their makeshift homes.

          And it’s already been an environmental disaster. Destroying property by flooding as I just mentioned, and by hastening the eradication of a number of species of animals. How? By also separating them from their natural hunting and foraging patterns- and even interrupting their breeding patterns.

          And the existing wall has essentially helped reduce influx of immigrants into America levels of a couple decades passed. Over the past 4-6 years the influx of immigrants has essentially been close to zero – with almost as many immigrants leaving as coming.

          And keep in mind that despite what GOP politicians would like to claim – immigrants commit far less crimes than native-born Americans. They’re 8-10 times less likely to commit a crime in the first place, and if they do commit a crime, it’s 2-3 times less likely to be a crime that requires incarceration.

          San Diego has one of the highest concentrations of illegal immigrants in the nation, and it’s one of the 10 cities in America that has seen the greatest reduction in crime in America; and together with El Paso, Texas – they are two of the safest cities in America even though both of them have more illegal aliens than almost any other cities in the nation. Immigrants, including illegals, are doing far more to move America forward by working hard and helping create jobs, than they are ever costing our country in their educational, welfare and healthcare needs.

    • Mexico built a wall on its other border to keep Guatemalans out. But Mexico screams “unfair” when there is talk of a wall on their northern border.

      • KarenJ

        That Mexico-Guatemala border is 540 miles. Not 2,000 miles, either.

      • Squeaky Dolphin

        ” Mexico screams “unfair” when there is talk of a wall on their northern border.”

        Can you find a link to that? Thanks.

        • chrisk

          it took me less than a minute of googling to find a source for that: goo.gl/CBvt1R

    • KarenJ

      Because we’re talking about 632 miles vs 2,000?

      • mikes2653

        Israel is a small nation, working under very trying conditions. America has much greater resources and lots of unemployed people, who could be put to work WPA-style on building such a wall. Kill two birds with one stone – keep out illegal immigrants, who depress wages for the native born, and provide some of those “shovel ready” jobs that Obama promised to deliver back in 2008. What’s not to like about that?

        • Jane

          Loads~

        • Obsideon 13

          How about building some new roads and bridges? Things that actually contribute to the economy. As far as what happened to those shovel ready jobs ask the teabaggers in congress that block bills and haven’t introduced a single job or infrastructure bill in over 6 years but can have 50 plus votes to repeal the ACA.

          • mikes2653

            Those shovel-ready jobs were promised in the first 2 years of the Obama Administration, when Democrats had filibuster-proof control of both houses of Congress. They did nothing then to bring them about, preferring to waste time and political capital on the boondoggle of Obamacare. The public reaction to this was to elect a Republican majority to oppose the Obama agenda.

            Had Obama and the Democrats made an effort to restore economic prosperity first, would this have happened?

          • SidSeven

            You really are an idiot.

          • Independent1

            Wow!! I’ll second SidSeven, you clearly are an idiot. The Dems DID NOT have two years of a filibuster-proof majority THAT IS A FLAT OUT LIE!! In reality they had a super majority for less than 3-5 MONTHS!!! They didn’t get the super-majority until Al Fraken’s win in Minnesota was approved IN JULY OF 2009; and then Ted Kennedy died just about a month later on August 14, 2009 and the Dems lost their super majority. Deval Patrick didn’t replace Ted until sometime in October and by then it was getting close to the end of the year recess. SORRY LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ANOTHER PATHOLOGICAL LIAR IN OUR MIDST!!

            And with respect to the Stimulus and the economic recover. WELL, Given that our economy has recovered faster by far since the Great Recession, than it ever recovered from a lesser recession under Reagan – i’D SAY YOU’RE WHOLE POST IS FULL OF OUTRIGHT CRAP!!!

            And better see this graph as to just how the Stimulus reversed an 800,000 job/month loss in just 3 months!!!!

          • Independent1

            Keep this in mind too moron: Since 1900 there have been 20 recessions and depressions WITH 14 RECESSIONS AND 3 DEPRESSIONS OCCURRING DURING REPUBLICAN PRESIDENCIES – AND MOST OF THEM OCCURRED DURING THEIR 2ND TERM (EISENHOWER GOVERNED THROUGH 3 OF THEM)

            SINCE 1900, GDP GROWTH UNDER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENCIES HAS AVERAGED A PALTRY 2.6% – WHILE UNDER DEMS IT HAS AVERAGED 4.3%

            SINCE THE 1929 STOCK MARKET CRASH, THE MARKETS NET GAIN UNDER THE 43 YEARS OF GOP PRESIDENCIES HAS BEEN A NET ZERO!!! THAT’S ZILCH!! NADA!!! WHILE UNDER 44 YEARS OF DEM PRESIDENCIES IT HAS EXCEEDED A GROWTH OF 300%. IF YOU HAVE A POSITIVE BALANCE IN A MUTUAL FUND OR STOCK ACCOUNT – IT WAS ALL EARNED UNDER DEM PRESIDENTS!!

            DURING THE 8 MEDIOCRE YEARS UNDER REAGAN, AMERICA AVERAGED A NET GDP GROWTH OF 7.3%/YR WHILE UNDER CARTER THE GDP AVERAGE GROWTH WAS 10.9%YR. AND THAT’S NOT ALL, SINCE COOLIDGE WAS IN OFFICE, AMERICA’S GDP AND JOB GROWTH UNDER DEMOCRATS HAS OUTPERFORMED THE GROWTH OF EVERYGOP PRESIDENT THAT HAS BEEN IN OFFICE STARTING WITH HOOVER!!!!!!

            SEE THIS CHART:

          • Stephen Michel

            They never had a filibuster proof majority.

          • SidSeven

            We got a major arterial rebuilt here with a modest amount of stimulus funds, & yes our city had to cough up a big chunk as well.

          • NOW you’re talking..!!

        • SidSeven

          You are an idiot. Ever been down there to the border?

      • Ursula

        It’s mostly fence. Israel didn’t build very much wall.

    • Joseph Kelsall

      Is Trump proposing to shoot men , women and children to emulate the Israelis?

    • Independent1

      Israel needs a wall because the people trying to cross into Israel are using ones who are trying to commit mayhem and kill people. The U.S. DOES NOT need a wall. It is not only counter to our culture (for at least the past 100 plus years, America has been a beacon to the oppressed). But immigrants, even illegal ones, are doing more to help America than damage it.

      Over the past 3 decades, without immigrants, including illegals, our country’s population would have been declining without these immigrants. If you think there’s an economic problem in America today – just try to envision it if over the past 20-30 years companies we expect to be making year over year profits were having to try and do that with a declining customer base. That’s the kind of problem that is facing Europe and why most other industrialized nations are still in economic slumps – they’re populations are declining.

      And you need to deal with your misguided notion that immigrants, including illegals take American jobs and create lower wages THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. Illegals actually help create jobs by doing menial work native-born Americans won’t do, while creating opportunities for them in companies that would not even be in business without the cheap labor that immigrants and only immigrants will provide.

      • Eli Peter

        Well put.

      • mikes2653

        We no longer have an open frontier, which was the reason why the US needed immigrants in the 19th century. A recognition that there was no more open frontier led to the Immigration Act of 1924, which was most unwisely repealed in 1965.

        It is true that the native-born population is merely maintaining itself in the U.S., and is declining in Europe. Why? Look at the horrific number of babies that have been aborted. Had they not been, the native-born populations would have shown a normal increase.

        • Independent1

          Sorry, the biggest influx of Mexican immigrants occurred during WWII when so many men were tied up in the war effort and women were needed to work in factories. The U.S. specifically opened the southern border and recruited over 3 million Mexicans. And today, there are numerous business, companies selling strawberries and even blueberries world-wide – billion dollar businesses that would not exist if it weren’t for immigrants willing to pick their crops dirt cheap. Because their fields wouldn’t been economically feasible without that dirt-cheap labor.

          And native-born women growing up knowing about The Pill (a contraceptive) is a far greater reason as to why the native-born birth rate has been significantly below replacement level for quite some time – than abortion (which is much lower today by the way than it was 2-4 decades ago). And given that most non-conservative women who can afford it, freely use The Pill – and aside from them it’s women iving in poverty who don’t; and it’s red states where the vast majority of people are living below the poverty level, I’ll let you guess where most abortions actually occur (hint, it ain’t in blue states). But that’s neither here nor there. What a woman chooses with her body is between her and Jesus, and none of your, mine or anyone else’s business.

          For whatever the reason, the American population would be decreasing and it’s only immigrants, including illegals, who are keeping that from happening.

      • InformedVoter

        As usual for you (being the blowhard you are) the facts and stats that you quoted are fake, made up, and outright lies. This was proven very quickly after Trump’s initial claims were blasted by the media only to have his claims verified as true and accurate. Meanwhile, low information fools like you, continue to quote the proven-to-be lies about how many illegals are being returned. I’ve suggested to you in the past to try using information sources that even try to provide true data and information.

        • SidSeven

          Trump’s claims are BS. YOU are not citing any sources I notice.

          • InformedVoter

            Trump’s claims regarding crimes committed, number in prison, number of anchor births, were proven to be completely correct (or in some cases, even understated). This is why, within two days of making his claims, he was quoted as “I’ve been exonerated and proven to be correct”. Of course the media that most low information folks like ID1 view, didn’t provide this information. Try examining a couple of legitimate news source sites and you will easily discover how accurate his comments were.

          • JenL

            Oh, well, if Trump SAYS he was found correct, it MUST be true. Still no sources, I see.

          • InformedVoter

            I was hoping you guys would have the initiative or intelligence to follow my suggestion about using “legitimate news sources”, but alas, you “low information” voters are lacking in so many ways. The “mother ship” of the liberals is POLITIFACT, who says “there are no statistics available to prove Trump’s claims, so they must be false”. POLITIFACT is only accurate 83% of the time and errors 2-1 in favor of liberals, so why is it not surprising that the following information is readily available? The US Sentencing Commission regularly publishes many stats regarding crime rates. Their most recent stats show that illegals comprise about 3.5% of the population (in the US). The Federal prison population consists of 36.7% of illegals – or roughly 10 times the US ratio of the population. Nationwide, illegals comprise 27% of the prison population or 9 times the expected rate. The crimes counted are murder, kidnappings and sexual assaults, plus many other violent crimes. Also itemized is the fact that deportations (a category that liberals claim is now the highest in history) as identified as falling again for the past 6 months. A trend dating back to 2009 (like when Obama took office?). The only reason the number of deported listed as going up is because Obama counts those turned away AT THE BORDER among those deported. Counting those has never been included! A recent article by John Hawkins (7-4-2015) actually lists the number of murders, etc. These stats are readily available to anyone who wants to take the time to check them out. These are ACTUAL crimes being committed by illegals who should never have been here to begin with. Hawkins sums up his article that completely proved that Trump IS CORRECT with the idea “It’s no secret why the Democrats would like Trump’s claim to go away, because the claim stays around and the more it’s repeated, the more likely that even “low information” voters will find out the truth that Trump is absolutely correct about the massive amount of crime being committed by the illegal population”. Hope you can sleep well tonight knowing that if you live near where Obama is relocating illegals that crime is not a problem.

          • JenL

            STILL not citing sources for any of your claims. You’re the one making claims. It’s up to you to provide evidence for them.

          • InformedVoter

            You claim Trump is wrong, yet you provided no proof! OK, try these sites out for size. Read ’em and weap.
            americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/illegal_aliens_murder_at_a_much_higher_rate_than_us_citizens_do.html
            townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2015/07/04/trump-is-right-about-Mexican-illegals-committing-crimes-n2021225/page/full
            bretibart.com/big_government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014
            Now ask yourself “why is the media trying to hide or lie about the crime”? Why is Obama lying about Islam being peaceful when history proves otherwise? Are they trying to start a civil war and destroy our country? Please, since you claim to know so much, what are the answers?

          • XAV

            >’POLITIFACT is biased’
            >”use legitimate news sources”
            >Points to rightwingnews.com

            k

          • Independent1

            Tell me there mindless one!! If Trumps statistics are true, which they’re not they’re flat out lies, how is it that San Diego and El Paso, the two cities in America with the highest concentrations of illegals, are two of the safest cities in America?? San Diego is one of the 10 Cities in America that has seen the biggest decline in crime, as the concentration of illegals has actually grown over the past 20 plus years.

            Trump and you RWNJs are clearly using falsified numbers from the places line CIS which was started by a Right Wing immigrant hater.

            Fact is, immigrants, including illegals commit 1/8th to 1/10th the crimes that native-borns do and even then the crimes they commit are 2-3 times less likely to require incarceration.

            Even Rupert Murdoch who owns Faux News admits that Trump is wrong. See this from NewsMax:

            Rupert Murdoch: ‘Trump Wrong’ on Mexican Immigrant Crime

            Conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch called out Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Twitter Sunday, saying the real estate mogul is wrong to say Mexican immigrants – or any immigrants – commit more crime than legal residents.

            Mexican immigrants, as with all immigrants, have much lower crime rates than native born. Eg El Paso safest city in U.S. Trump wrong.

            6:03 PM – 12 Jul 2015

            Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/murdoch-trump-wrong-mexican/2015/07/12/id/654640/#ixzz3n0HZHXGd
            Urgent: Rate Obama on His Job Performance. Vote Here Now!

          • InformedVoter

            Nice try, but both you know and I know that your “numbers” about crime are completely fake. Not to worry. Here are three sites that COMPLELY SHRED sources like the Washington Post position and PROVE beyond ANY DOUBT that Trump is right.
            americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/illegal_aliens_murder_at_a_much_higher_rate_than_us_citizens_do.html
            townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2015/07/04/trump-is-right-about-Mexican-illegals-committing-crimes-n2021225/page/full
            breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014
            Now ask yourself “why is the media hiding this information?” Why is Obama lying about islam when history proves him wrong? Are they trying to start a civil war to destroy our country? Gotcha!!

          • Independent1

            You can’t seriously think I’m going to believe one thing that’s published on those clearly right-wing, immigrant hater, propaganda sites!! You have your head so far up your butt you can’t see the light of day!!!

    • Ursula

      Israel’s wall is MOSTLY just fence with perimeter detectors.

    • SidSeven

      Maybe you should check out a freaking map?

    • silas1898

      Israel is smaller than New Jersey and their wall is never far from the needed infrastructure to build it

  • Downriver

    wait till they get to the Atascosas on the southern Arizona border in Santa Cruz county

  • topjob66t

    Trumps proposed wall is unlikely to ever be realized. Many ranchers have already refused to permit it because of free range traditions for their livestock. Permits and right of ways would have to be negotiated among hundreds of municipalities and counties. And many of those authorities are not about to ruffle ranchers feathers.
    I agree that the wall is feasible but the permitting process is not.

    • SidSeven

      Um, the whole point of this article is that it is NOT feasible, or even desirable.

      • topjob66t

        You just made two distinguishable differences there. The article stands on its own merits. I pointed out extra gravy to why it won’t work. And you say I missed something? Good luck with that train of thought.

        • SidSeven

          Not FEASIBLE. It is not. Feasible. Congress is never gonna spend that kind of money , ever on a wall.

          • topjob66t

            You are correct. It is still kinda hilarious that our next McCarthy wants one even bigger across Canada. I present to you the humongous failure but with a louder mouth than Trump … Ted Cruz.

          • SidSeven

            Ted “The Sludge” ? Now that Walker is out, he is back here, wreaking havoc on Wisconsin.
            By the way can you see the moon where you are?

    • Unless of course if he uses Imminent domain as was used before with terrible results for it’s citizens. He would for sure be selective, targeting those ranchers, farmers and land owners who doesn’t have a voice (lobbyist) to defend their rights.. As for the few who do, he would simply build around them much like how the fracking pipe is being built.

      • topjob66t

        You bring up two distinct arguments … or ideas to speak about. Trump as President has no control of eminent domain per se. That issue is strictly local and what influence can the Trump use to sway the local politician to go against that guy’s constituents. Right?
        The fracking element you insert here is actually not involved with property rights. That fight is a lot more cynical by those who were gold rush examples of humanity but with lawyers.

  • Paul

    It’s a unrealistic idea and the fact that relatively many Americans think it’s a good idea is a testament to our national disease of abysmal stupidity. Anybody who believes unrealistic things that come out of the mouths of presidential candidates is very naive. None of them are above lying. Some are a bit more serious than others. Trump is a joke.

    • SidSeven

      The most rabid Right-Wingers that think ‘sealing the border’ is an actual real thing in the real world that could actually be done have never set foot out of the counties in the deep south they were born in as 3rd generation rejects from Europe…Trump is yanking everyone’s chain. I’ve been down there & seen ‘the border’ & it is actually over 2200 miles long. There is no such thing as ‘sealing the border’, & even if there was, what about 5500 miles of coastline, & 5000 miles of northern border. Also, the flow of ‘illegals’ in, & folks going the other way results currently, in a net zero.

      • silas1898

        Scotty Walker was going to build a wall on Canadian border, too. Clueless pandering to idiots.

      • bob rivers

        Nothing funnier than low IQ liberals claiming that the “net flow is zero,” as if they have some magical means of determining this item.

        • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

          Statistics is a powerful field.

          If you don’t understand the maths behind it and would like to call it “magical” instead, then go ahead.

          • bob rivers

            Uh, I have a degree in statistics, but there is no way on earth to count people in shadows – that’s why they are in hiding – so as not to be counted.

          • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

            We used statistics to pinpoint a hydrogen bomb lost in the depths of the Mediterranean. We used statistics to determine the authorship of the Federalist Papers. We used statistics to correctly predict the 2008 presidential election winners in 49 states.

            Degree or not, statistics is much more powerful than you think.

    • Arnie Fickel

      8 months ago he may have been a joke but in 6 months you and I will be calling him president Trump after he saves our country….

      • Tothe

        You really think one man can “save our country” through the very mechanisms that have wreaked havoc for decades by appealing to the lowest common demoninator?

        • Arnie Fickel

          Listen ToTo, Trump will be president it will be his advisors and policies working in conjunction with congress to save america, If clinton gets in Republicans will not help her, If Trump gets in He will reach across both aisles to get whatever bills passed into law for us as americans and not a self serving party. That is why I will vote for him, Clintons a liar, IG report today expect more to come…exposing her as Bill exposed himself……

          • Tothe

            Fundamental flaws in your argument: Salvation does not come from legislation. Government is not the source of liberty or rights. Trump is no more a savior than Obama was. Democracy is a false god.

            “Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical;
            especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of
            crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
            alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series
            of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken, 1922

          • Arnie Fickel

            worlds changed since 1922 toto..get with it…

      • Paul

        Don’t count on it.

        • Arnie Fickel

          I am and America will be great again, 401 Ks will rise, and we will have a candid discussion about race and illegal immigrants, not a politically correct one …

          • Paul

            We wouldn’t want to be correct. It is a violation of Republican philosophy.

          • Arnie Fickel

            I would be more concerned about Lying Hillary Clinton and the latest Clinton scandal , can not wait till the FBI makes her do the perp walk, and of course right after that Loretta Lynch will free her because she’s a woman, it still will be too late and we can finally get this country back financially to where it needs to be after the last 8 years of Obama and his minions attempting to make us Canada Lite….

          • Paul

            LOL. You live in a dream.

          • Arnie Fickel

            CCF Clinton Crime Family how many women did bill rape as Hillary looked the other way,

  • Trump’s “wall” is as believable as him saying he will deport 11 million people in 18 months. He is a joke and a gift to the Democratic Party.

    • Independent1

      America’s legal system can only handle processing about 425,000 deportations a year. It would take over 20 years to deport 11 million illegals if done LEGALLY!!

      • toobored54

        Well they came here illegally, why would you deport them legally? Load em up, fly em out.

        • Independent1

          Because that’s not the way MOST PEOPLE in America operate. If that was the case, we’d simply take run of the mill crooks and throw them in jail without a trial. An alien coming here illegally is no worse a criminal than your average home- break-in crook; in fact, far less of a criminal because home-break-in crooks are worthless, whereas illegal aliens are doing far more for America than millions of supposedly native-born Americans are. The work they do on the cheap is supporting millions of Americans’ jobs.

    • ADELANTE CON CLINTONS

      Exactly.
      Go Trump Go!

    • missythemissmiss

      I don’t believe that we could or should deport all illegals, but I do think that we should stop releasing illegals who commit crime to roam the streets and commit more crimes over and over. Illegals drive down wages and take jobs. That’s an economic fact.

      Yes, Trump is great for the Democratic Party, the other head of the snake that represents the wealthy of this country, not you or I.

    • bob rivers

      There’s over 30 million illegals, and they can and should all be deported, including the low IQ apologists like yourself. So sad how the rich liberals like you will then have to mow their own lawns…

      • Ok genius, how is douche bag Trump going to deport 30 million people? Because he hasn’t explained it.

        • bob rivers

          When you start a post with an insult, you are showing you are a POS not to be taken seriously.

          To the sane, a national ID card, a termination of the anchor baby nonsense, massive fines for employers who are caught hiring them, no welfare, food stamps, free schooling, housing, school breakfasts/lunches, etc. as most other countries do – treat them the way they are treated in mexico – and most will leave on their own.

          Once this rabble realizes the free ride is over, they will leave, or not bother coming. Those who don’t get the message, will be deported.

          • Get Schwifty

            You’re right bob, IRISH BULL was wrong for calling you a genius. I certainly don’t think that way about you.

        • toobored54

          Anybody directly responsible for hiring illegals gets a mandatory 1 year prison sentence and a $50,000 fine. Watch the stampede to the border.

        • toobored54

          Me no work, me no stay Senor’ 1) Mandatorey e-verify 2) mandatory $50,000 fine for hiring illegals 3) mandatory 6 months in jail for hiring Illegals. 4) Free airfare to the country of your choice.

          • Tothe

            1. You don’t own other people.
            2. You don’t own the property of other people.
            3. You do not have the authority to rob or kidnap other people.
            4. You cannot transfer to someone else any authority you do not already have in the first place.
            5. Government is not your agent.
            6. National borders are not analogous to private property lines.

  • Joseph Kelsall

    Point of information; in the UK a ‘trump’ is a fart!
    Does trump imagine that if he builds a 20ft wall that the Mexicans cannot build a 25 foot ladder?

  • J. Fischer

    Every road between Mexico and the United States would be blocked by that wall. Animal migration routes would be destroyed.

    Oh, and who would patrol that wall?

    • Independent1

      That’s the big issue everyone is ignoring. A wall would require guards every so many hundred feet in order to act as a true deterrent. Who would pay the thousands of guards required to do that??

      And do any of these fools suggesting a wall realize that the current wall and border patrol has essentially reduced the illegal immigrant migration close to Zero?? That there are almost as many immigrants leaving as coming. And that the only ‘immigrant problem’ is just one more fake problem created by the GOP to create just one more ‘fear factor’??

      Fact is, the illegal immigrants in America have a far lower crime rate than native-born Americans; they together with the legal immigrants actually create and operate over 35% of America’s small businesses. And the CBO estimates 55-70% of them pay billions in income taxes; they pay over 12 billion into Social Security which because they can’t use it, is extending the life of SS. And the CBO also estimates that the economic activity the illegals induce into our economy, is keeping about 8 million native-born Americans working.

      The CBO after a detailed analysis of what illegals cost our country, concluded that although the taxes immigrants pay within a state, don’t cover all the costs a state incurs in providing for their education and welfare, what a state is actually paying for illegals, is very little above what the states already pay to provide the same services to the less affluent citizens in their state.

      So all in all, illegal immigrants are providing a lot more in boosting the American economy by the jobs they help create by doing work that native-born Americans won’t do – like they create trucking and managerial jobs and farms and construction businesses because they’re willing to do the menial backbreaking labor native-borns won’t do. They also create jobs for native-borns in the many small businesses they run.

      This whole illegal immigrant boondoggle, is just that, one more Republican attempt to distract the American public from the true issues facing America – and it’s a coverup so Americans don’t watch too closely as Republican legislators pass legislation after legislation that siphons more tax dollars out the pockets of all the lower income American citizens.

      • John Michael Crofford

        I’m sure that we could build a camera system and link it up with drones carrying weapons for deterrent. Not that I think that we should, but automation is making everything easier these days. 🙂 🙁

      • missythemissmiss

        Illegal immigration has long been a problem. We should not have undocumented people entering this country by the millions. Your government has a record of everything you do, but absolutely no record of these people who often bring crime to neighborhoods. Their willingness to do jobs that “no one else wants” is what drives down wages. You can be sure that if wages were higher, more US citizens would be willing to do those dirty jobs. This IS a problem and to deny it is pure ignorance.

        • Independent1

          First of all – undocumented people ARE NOT entering America by the millions – over the past 6 years people leaving are virtually offsetting those entering – fact is, there’s been a decline in the number of illegals in America overall because of all the negative vibes that Americans like you have spewed at them.

          And if immigrants, including illegals, are taking American’s jobs, why within 4-6 weeks after Alabama chased large numbers of illegals out of Alabama during the Great Recession were farmers saying they couldn’t find people to pick their crops and they were rotting in the fields and were contractors trying to fix tornado damage to Tuscalusa saying that repair work was going to take months longer or not get done, because they couldn’t find laborers to do the jobs illegals had been doing – at any wage??

          And do you even have an inkling of what fruits and veggies would cost you in the super market, if many of them were even available; if many of America’s farmers couldn’t get their fields harvested at the wage that illegal immigrants will work for, many fruits and vegetables wouldn’t even be worth planting because they would cost so much to harvest that consumers wouldn’t buy them.

          • missythemissmiss

            Imagine this… a world where parks had fruits growing that we could all pick ourselves for free. Turn off the television and try to think outside of the box.

            Trust me, if wages were high enough, there would be plenty of people lining up to pick the fruit.

            You’re missing the point about illegals entering the country. Even if it’s only thousands, they should still be documented, like every US citizen. Your arguments are weak and unoriginal.

        • marriea

          You’ve been half listening to either FOX news or the GOP

          • missythemissmiss

            Nice try, but no. I’m an independent-thinking liberal. I’m just saying what many liberals won’t say, because it’s not politically correct. But, i private conversations they agree with me.

            Are you an illegal, “Maria”?

          • marriea

            Depends on what you consider an illegal. Although my birth certificate indicates I was born on American soil, who knows?
            But seriously, do you think Americans would do the jobs if the pay was better. White Americans? Seriously? And do you really think employers would actually pay more than they are not paying to get the jobs done and hurt their bottom line? Seriously?

          • missythemissmiss

            The definition of an illegal is defined by law, not me.

            Seriously, yes, I do believe that Americans would do those jobs if the pay was fair, just like they work in coal mines, on fishing boats, on construction sites and on garbage trucks . Dirty jobs should pay a fair wage. If the employer refuses or can’t afford to pay a fair living wage, then their business license should be revoked. Seriously.

          • marriea

            It if had started out that way, then I would see your point. However, there are already provisions made by either state laws or federal laws giving farmers the right to hire ‘workers’ mostly coming from Mexico, during harvesting periods and sometimes I think, during planting seasons. Most ‘job creators’ already decry what they consider to be interference by the govt, so you actually believe that having their licence revoked is going go well after all this time. I believe it was somewhere in Alabama where an outcry was rendered toward migrant workers so they all left. The farmer was lamenting that he had no one to pick his crops, so that crop went to waste. The prices of certain things went up, but that farmer got to write his lost off on his income tax. Now who really won that battle.

            I think it was one of the midwestern states in which paid it’s migrants workers about $5 an hour. They worked under horrific conditions and long hours. They were cheated out of some of their pay, but the pay in Mexico was even less, so they took it. One worker even lost a limb because of harsh conditions. Do you think that worker received any compensation for that lost? Do you think he was provided medical care at that employer’s expense? Hell no! And considering that employers of migrant workers are not actually required to provide protection for these workers and that has been an unwritten rule for decades, you actually think that govt agencies are going to go on the record of doing so now. This happened once before in our history with the Civil War. It’s all about free labor or paying as little as possible for work done.
            It also explains to a degree why so many prisoners in this countries jails are minorities. Prisons in America get away with murder in terms of pay. Yes, I suppose that an inmate might choose to do nothing if they are a long timer but if this is the only thing one has to look forward to for many years, one take any job just to stop the monotony. The get about a $.30 an hour in some places. But the states have contracts with many companies which use prison labor to help their bottom line. And in this country, probably in most countries, it’s that bottom line, regardless of what POLS say, that matter.
            You mention a fair wage. What is that exactly? The workers of many fast food elements want a wage increase to $15 an hour. Eventually, that might happen, but when and if it does, that’s going to be the wage for decades to come. The price of things go up. Cities all over this country are now
            privatizing many of their operations because employers don’t want to saddle with paying workers fair wages. It’s a take it or leave it type thing. Do you think farmers are going to raising what they pay? Seriously.
            The fix is in. And the joke is on the little guy. And although Trump says a lot of stuff, I’ve encountered persons who’s worked for some of his companies. The way he gets away with it is, the company under his umbrella is the one who has to be sued. That cost a lot of time and money. He has the money to get out of paying.

      • marriea

        Thank you. Politicians always get away with that one. ‘I’m protecting you’ crap, so I get to compel you to pay more for my ‘services’. And we fall for it every time.
        There is always a boogieman directing the mostly whites in America that someone is out to take something that you have that they have not earned, And even if they earned it, it’s because the did something notorious to get it. But in truth the only bandits out there are really the POLS.

    • Independent1

      And I forgot to mention – how does the wall prevent immigrants from getting across our border where rivers like the Colorado flow into Mexico?? We need a lot of guards there too???

      • Tom Wheeler

        It’s not only flowing rivers. Dry washes can carry lots of water during a downpour and a concrete wall would only impede it’s flow

        • Independent1

          Thanks for the add on. And I have seen articles saying that the wall not only is hastening the demise of many endangered animal species by blocking their normal migration, hunting/foraging routes and has also resulted in even killing a few people due to the unexpected flooding it has caused; and along with that, caused quite a bit of environmental damage with washouts and the like. So building more wall, would most likely only result in more possible destruction from flooding, more detriment to animal migration routes, and maybe more innocent people dying.

  • James Letchworth

    .or maybe we could just jail employers of illegals?

    • Eleanore Whitaker

      I have to tell you…you are so on the mark on this. Here is what is happening in a NJ landport of warehousing and distribution, I got from interviewing several workers there:
      1. These big name corporations hire illegal subcontractors who hire the illegals so these companies don’t have to check E-Verify on legal status. That way, these corporations also don’t pay employer taxes since the subcontractors hire, fire and pay their wages through something they call a Rapid Pay Card.
      2. These illegal subcontractors hire only Hispanics and then demand that English speaking, born and bred Americans learn to speak Spanish in order to perform their jobs with Spanish speaking immigrants.
      3. The wages these top name companies pay these blue collar workers is barely above minimum, require they take NO sick time, NO vacations until they have been with the company 3 years and overtime is at their hiring, not their current wage. Overtime is also “mandatory.” Refuse to work overtime and they are fired.
      4. As a result of hiring so many illegals, there is a very serious threat regarding American personal IDs. Many of these illegals get their IDS to work in the US from the illegal subcontractor they pay to provide that ID. In one case, a worker who barely spoke English was known as Wendy MacDonald, not realizing that in the US “Wendy” is a girl’s name.

      5. When these illegals are hired, they must work on “on Call, as needed basis” which also then extends to American workers.
      6. These employers have found a way to sabotage American wages, avoid paying their fair share of employer taxes ALL while they are taking our tax dollars in tax subsidies.

      This is a recipe for disaster at the very least and revolt by American workers at most.

      • James Letchworth

        ..yeah, that’s what i was gonna say. 😉

  • teapartyson

    There are few things I have wanted to respond to more than this but this is so much BS all I will say is if you believe this that you deserve your world #trump2016

    • ADELANTE CON CLINTONS

      Deep nutters deep!

  • SidSeven

    Trump is playing a Long-Con, likely on the Tea Party & the GOP.

  • Kathy Eskew Kuczynski

    If you define a wall as continuous, how do you accommodate existing border crossings at Nogales, Juarez, etc.?

  • SidSeven

    I may be the only person on this planet that understands trump,…

  • SidSeven

    Money, Honey!

  • Paul Murphy

    Apparently the author never looked up the definition of a “wall”: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wall
    What an idiot!

  • Paul Murphy

    Sounds like an awful lot of jobs for Americans in need of work. Would even help boost the economy.

    • ADELANTE CON CLINTONS

      Oh God.

      Republicans are intentionally soon stupid.

      • joe schmo

        No, you people take the cake of cakes. Just use Europe as a shining example. MESS! We need to take up Putin’s ideology. He is FOR his country.

        Obviously, you no longer are. Why not join that massive migration oversees and let the Muslims rule over you…. LOL no thanks!

        • ADELANTE CON CLINTONS

          Are you kidding!

          Im gonna LOVE IT HERE under president Hillary!

          Its you that truly should begin to consider emigration!!!

          Lucky for you with your love of Putin’s ideology, you know where you should be headed.

          RUSSIA OR BUST YOU NUTTER!

    • Tristan Neal

      Addressed in the article:

      “The men and women doing the work of actually installing the wall would have to be provided with food, water, shelter, lavatory facilities, safety equipment, transportation, and medical care, and would sometimes be miles away from a population center of any size. Sure, some people would be willing to to do the work, but at what price? Would Trump hire Mexicans?”

      The problem with Americans is that many (not all, but very many) are entitled and unwilling to do the same tough jobs that undocumented immigrants eventually end up doing on our behalf. This has always been and will continue to be why we can’t just expect Americans to do the jobs immigrants are currently doing. It sounds good in theory, but Americans just won’t do it.

      • WRONG!! It has to do with pay, not laziness.. Any American is willing to do any job so long as the pay is fair for the task assigned.. When job makers attempt to save resources or make more profit by skimming salaries that’s when illegals fit their bill completely.. Only American teens are willing to unload a truck full of watermelons for five bucks and if even they refuse, an illegal would hold up their hand (where not even a legal Mexican would volunteer).

        • Independent1

          Sorry!! No dice!! Problem is, many of the jobs immigrants do are low pay, because the job wouldn’t even be there if people weren’t willing to do it at LOW PAY.

          For example: many farmers plant a crop only if they can get laborers to pick the crops for peanuts, because if they had to pay what a native-born would want to pick their crop, the crop would not sell in the grocery store cause few people could afford to buy them.

          And the same is true with a lot of construction jobs. If construction companies had to pay people who haul bricks and shingles up roofs what a native-born would demand to do that work, the construction company would have to charge so much for the jobs they’re doing that few people would be able to afford or want the job done.

          Despite what you may think – illegals are not doing jobs that native-borns would do, because they’re in fact doing jobs that only exist because they are willing to do them so cheaply. And by doing them cheaply, the illegals are supporting higher paying jobs like managers and truck drivers and electricians and plumbers who would not be working if the illegals weren’t doing the really grunt work DIRT CHEAP!!!!!!

        • Independent1

          Here’s a short article from a website called WriterBeat that illustrates what I was saying using the Strawberry growing industry:

          From WriterBeat:

          The economic importance of illegal immigrants
          by Charlie Raiche Jun 16, 2015 – 8:37am

          During some immigration related television interview I once heard a farmer say “In my thirty years I’ve never left fruit on the vine.” What he means is that without access to cheap labor, the cost to remove the strawberries is greater than the value of strawberries. What alternative does he have than to leave the fruit on the vine?

          If those strawberries had to be picked by legal residents the cost of picking them would skyrocket. If the cost skyrocketed we probably wouldn’t be the world’s leader in strawberry production as we are now (Top 5 Strawberry Producing Countries). In being the world’s leader, there are many high paying jobs in the strawberry industry that legal residents fill such as trucking, marketing, management, sales, warehousing, etc. Not to mention the economic benefits we receive when we export strawberries versus if we had to import strawberries. All of this is made possible thanks to the strawberry industry’s access to cheap labor. And don’t for one second think the strawberry industry is the only industry which depends on illegal immigrants for its existence.

          Furthermore, because illegal immigrants work for less, the products and services we consume are cheaper. That means we all enjoy a higher standard of living than if we didn’t have access to their labor.

        • Independent1

          And beating a dead horse – your comment ” Any American is willing to do any job so long as the pay is fair for the task assigned.” Is flat out NOT TRUE!!

          There are simply jobs that native-borns feel are ‘ABOVE BENEATH THEM’ and will not do at any price and /or will not do effectively at any price.

          When Alabama chased all the illegals out of the state with a strict immigration law, farmers and construction companies could not find replacements for them at any price even during the Great Recession.Alabama even tried using prisoners to do the work, and after about 2 weeks, the farmers and construction companies said NO THANKS!!! Because the prisoners wouldn’t even come close to doing the same level of work as the immigrants had been doing.

  • Swan

    Hi folks !

    I did a small video on this subject :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTlFji3IEck

  • If I understand the author’s design specs for the “wall” … they appear to be designed for construction on dry land …. but 1100 miles of our southern border with Mexico is the RIO GRANDE RIVER …. thus a wall would need to be constructed in the MIDDLE of that RIVER … that definitely is no easy task and is very unlikely to occur within our lifetimes.

  • Daelda

    I just have one question…there have been several earthquakes along the U.S.-Mexico border over the years. Now, let’s assume that this wall gets built. What happens when an earthquake eventually hits and damages it? What if the damage is substantial?

    The building of the wall, and basic maintenance isn’t the only thing you have to be concerned with. There will be the occasional incident of major damage (natural, or man-made). And when that happens, it will require additional money to repair – along with additional workers, new concrete sections to replace the damaged ones, and so forth. This wall would become a sinkhole of money for the remainder of the life of said wall. Not exactly the economic boost Trump is touting he can bring to America.

    • WhisperofReason

      Exactly right. (Never thought of the natural disaster aspect of it.) I’m betting that anyone who thinks this thing can be easily built has never been into those desert areas – miles & miles from civilization and roads.

      This is a project that will never pay for itself. As you say, it will constantly cost more and more money in upkeep and ongoing support. Where will those funds come from? Certainly not from taxing those few low paying jobs saved by keeping outsiders out. And contrary to what those wall supporters think, definitely not entitlement savings. The offset would never be met. Trumps’ Wall would be nothing but a Money Pit.

  • Seth Cole

    Then of course there’s the ease in which such a wall can be bypassed by simply digging deeper. Or simply dig through it. Unless he’s planning on spending the obscene amounts required to have it patrolled continuously, there’d be plenty of time for a small work team to open up holes. Or, the simplest of things…build a slightly taller ladder.

    • Dave Keough

      A couple hits with a RPG should take out any wall Forest Trump can build. Or perhaps a couple pounds of C4 would do the job. Who’s going to pay all the military he wants to use to patrol it.

  • bcarreiro

    He’s an upkeeper. That’s it.

  • Vern Shotwell

    There are good engineers and bad engineers, just as there are conservatives and left-wingers.
    This bad engineer of course is a leftist. Which is normal: those on the left seldom actually do anything!
    Building this wall will be a little easier than building a decent 2 lane highway with a length of 2000 miles….and will use a lot less material.
    No problem!

    • Independent1

      “Those on the left seldom actually do anything”??? Really!!!!!!!!

      Say clueless – do you have any money in the stock market?? Say a stock account or a mutual fund for retirement?? Does it have a balance?? If so, every sent of that balance was accumulated while a Democrat was in the presidency.

      Yup!! Since the 1929 stock market crash the total gain in the market during Republican presidencies actually has a negative value. Had you invested $1,000 in the market right after the ’29 crash and only realized the gains gotten on that $1,000 while Republicans were in the presidency – your account would now be less than $1,000 actually less than $900. While the gains realized during the time a Democrat was in office is over 300% meaning, that that $1,000 would be worth more than $300,000 today all realized WHILE A DEMOCRAT WAS IN OFFICE.

      And do you know what has affected some of that gain difference?? Well one thing that hasn’t helped is that Republicans just love to create recessions and depressions. Do you realize that since 1900, there have been 20 recessions and depressions??? And that 14 recessions and all 3 depressions occurred while a Republican was president??

      And what hasn’t helped the Republicans too, are that Republicans are extremely lousy at motivating the economy. Yup!! Do you realize that since 1900 that the average GDP growth in America has averaged a paltry 2.6%/yr growth?? While when Democrats were in office the GDP has averaged a much more robust 4.3%/yr annual growth.

      And that’s not all, another thing that Republicans are terrible at, is creating jobs. Let’s just look at the last 38 years or so; under Carter, Clinton and Obama about 40 million jobs were created in about 18.5 years, while under Reagan and the two Bushes only half that number (20 million) were created in 20 years.

      And even today under Obama, not only has deficit spending been reduced further and faster than under any previous president in history!!! There have been 66 straight months of positive jobs growth which is more than one full year longer than WAS EVER PREVIOUSLY ACCOMPLISHED BY ANY PRESIDENT!!!

      And not only that, but if I started listing some of the 40 plus positive accomplishments for America that have been accomplished during Obama’s presidency inspite of 24/7 obstructionism by the GOP you see that Barack Obama has actually DONE MORE THAN EVERY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT THAT HAS BEEN IN OFFICE SINCE TEDDY ROOSEVELT ALL COMBINED!!!!!!!!!!

  • marriea

    As I was reading this story, two things came to mind. Once the US under the leadership of Pres Reagan goaded the Russian leadership to tear down the wall separating east and west Berlin. Now we, or at least Trump and his supporters, want to build one in this country ‘to keep ‘those Mexicans’ out’. The more thing change, the more they remain the same.
    The other was the rhetoric of Mr. Trump. There was a joke I read some time back in which a senator died and was given the choice of living in heaven or hell. First stop, hell. Unlike all of the bad things he had heard about hell, it was like he was visiting paradise, There were golf courses, beautiful women, extravagant foods, many of his buddies etc, everything this senator liked on earth. But he had to also go to heaven to taste that also. So off to heaven he went. It was a nice place to visit but not a place one wanted to stay at. The food was good the accommodations adequate, but things were kind of slow compared to hell. Alas, he had to make a decision. He chose hell. When he uttered his choice he was given a last chance to consider his decision. Again he chose hell. In a snap he was back in hell. But when he got back, the hell he visited was no longer the hell he visited before. It was destitute. Aghast, he asked the devil what happened. The devil replied, ‘yesterday, I was campaigning. Today you voted’.

    • Daniel Schealler

      I’ve also noted the parallels between Trump’s proposed Anti-Immigrant Protection Rampart and the GDR’s Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart.

      Though it should be pointed out that the GDR’s wall was mainly for keeping people in, whereas Trump’s wall would be for keeping people out. Which doesn’t break the metaphor exactly, but it’s a worthwhile distinction to make.

  • Kathleen Andrews

    I got the link to this story from a comment on another story. Enjoyed the article by Ali Rhuzkan – thx.

  • pk

    First of all its Silly to try to install a barrier to combat tunneling: the tunnels can always go deeper.

    But let us explore the logical barrier.

    Why re-invent wheel. Just Copy our Israeli brothers that everyone judiciously supports.

    They are building a Israeli West Bank barrier- (400 mile Barrier) and they are a tiny nation.

    America can easily copy their design. Problem solved silly engineer. I mean if it is good enough for Israel it must be good enough for us. logistically they pre-fab every piece at a facility that can be easily trucked and placed in a spot with a crane and leveled and compacted by bulldozer and scraper. It would be a joke to build an economical wall without breaking the bank.

    • JasonUH

      You are aware that the entire nation of Israel can fit inside the very southern tip of Texas, right? Bit of a logistical difference between that and what a U.S. wall would require.

      • pk

        Are you serious? You obviously didn’t READ the article. Its not the country size that matter but the wall itself. (duh)

        Ours 1900 miles theirs 400 miles.
        Our GDP 17 trillion Theirs 290 Billion.
        I think we can afford the wall way more than they can.

        Plus their terrain is very similar to ours.

        • JasonUH

          The author’s main point was the logistics of the project. You replied by comparing apples to apple seeds. The Israeli wall is orders of magnitude less complex.

          • pk

            Your exaggerated orders of magnitude is plain ridiculous. 4.3 times longer is plainly 4.3 larger. Not 10 times.

            YES the Authors wall is more complex because he is not giving an honest assessment. He is trying for a wall more complex than necessary. It is designed to prove his points, not be the
            most expeditious method.

            Since I have been in construction my whole life and have an engineering degree I can say that and be more qualified than you. I have also participated and managed marquee projects around the country with more than 120 men under my
            purview. I have lived logistics on a large scale and built projects that you and yours now enjoy.

            1. You don’t need a superhighway to build this wall. Scrapers and bulldozers and rough terrain cranes are designed to go over and deal with rough terrain. These machines can be used to create a rough road that 40′ trailers can utilize to bring prefabbed material. Have you ever watched an episode of Gold Rush that showed big machines on back country roads.

            2. Logistically the main materials (concrete) occur naturally throughout most of the localized area that the wall would be built. Their exist batch plants that can create concrete and most of the aggregates can be procured locally. The batch plant can be moved if it makes sense logistically.

            3. A prefabbed wall pinned together can even be replaced easily from damage due to quake or vandalism by unpinning damaged sections and replacing.

            Every point he makes has counterpoints that make his argument Swiss cheese.

            Your no can do attitude is plain not correct and the author
            is not being honest in his assessment.

          • Duke Woolworth

            And the water for the concrete comes from where, now?

          • pk

            Rio Grand/ well/ municipal and if that is too far don’t forget a truck can load the pre-fabbed material and bring to the site.

            Your fabrication facility doesn’t have to be right next the the location. It just has to be within reasonable trucking distance to periodic fabrication sites that have your molds and shake table etc.

            Its simple you plan how many pieces your crane can set a day and then you truck that amount plus one to the location.

      • joe schmo

        No worries, we can get it done. I’m even sure there would be volunteers to help put this thing up. If we merely let the border patrol do their job, the wall would be no big deal.

  • Whatmeworry

    The avg illegal costs the taxpayer $750,000. Which would more than pay for the wall As for the wall design we have millions of miles of them all over the US they are called sound walls

    • songkran
      • I read it online, you make up your sources

        • songkran

          It’s the New York Times. You’re being willfully ignorant.

          • Quit makeing me look ignorant

          • joe schmo

            They are the ignorant ones. They wear rose-colored glasses and live in LaLa Land. WMW we get it, they don’t. If we have another 4 years of this mess, we’re cooked. Trump is right and he’s not the only one stating that.

          • joe schmo

            Liberal think tank. Trump knows how to work with figures. You’re just blowing hot air! Why bother.

    • Daniel Schealler

      As songkran said, the figure has been debunked.

      But even if it hadn’t? You have no sense of scale. I don’t know how much a project like the one described above would cost. But I’m damn sure that you’re several orders of magnitude too low in your estimate.

      Add a bunch of zeros to the end of that, and you might be in the ballpark of how much such a wall would actually cost.

      Trumps running for the party of small government and fiscal responsibility, while simultaneously suggesting a Keynsian-scale infrastructure project with no discernible economic output.

      Americans should be more concerned with your roads than with a pointless wall.

      • Then I must be ignorant

      • joe schmo

        Border patrol and troops being able to do their job would end this.

        • Daniel Schealler

          Out of morbid curiosity, rather than question the premise, I’d rather find out what you think needs to change – specifically – to enable troops to do their job, as relevant to this discussion.

          • joe schmo

            LOL, according to many people including the border patrol themselves, they are NOT allowed to do their job and send people coming over the border back. The doors are wide open.

            Why don’t you be ‘specific’ and tell me why this won’t work, and I ‘betcha’ you won’t answer me or you will give me some morbid excuse about how these poor people deserve to have a better life.

          • Daniel Schealler

            I make no claim that it won’t work. Let’s presume I am very stupid. The only thing I know is that I know nothing.

            Therefore, I have no position. Thus, I have no position to defend.

            On the other hand, you do have a position to defend. 🙂

            With that basis in mind: Explain to me, using small words that my tiny brain is capable of understanding, what is specifically is preventing border patrol from doing their jobs, and what specifically you think needs to change that will empower them to do their jobs.

          • joe schmo

            In short, a mindless answer, the government under Obama prevents them from doing their jobs because they will lose their jobs if they resist. I guess you really do drink the kool-aide.

          • Daniel Schealler

            In short, a mindless answer…

            Indeed! Mindlessly stupid, as I would like us both to presume that I am. 🙂

            You are just evading the truth…

            Evading the truth? To the contrary! I am receptive, and asking you to give me the truth in all of its specifics! Yet you refuse to do so! I am but a humble supplicant, why must you be such a miser with your wisdom? Has the the abundance of your wisdom made you lazy? Please do exert yourself, for there is no real difficulty in answering me.

            .. the government under Obama prevents them from doing their jobs because they were ‘ordered’ to stand down by the Obama administration many many times and they were told to let illegals pass. Why not take a gander and look it up.

            I’ve had a search around the internet, and I can find no such order.

            I have found this document. But it does not order border patrol to stand down and let illegals pass. All the articles I have found on the internet on this issue all seem to point back to this document. But the document doesn’t appear to me to say what those articles say it does.

            But, of course, I am very stupid. If I have the wrong document, please, do correct me!

            On the other hand, if I have the correct document but am failing to understand it, please, do teach me how it should be read!

          • joe schmo

            Explain this to me then. Why are there so many more of these vagrants here? I live in CaliMexico, we clearly see what is going on. When I first moved to this state the border patrol used to fly over the fields and go onto the farms to arrest and deport.

            Straight from the horses mouth: Steve Moran National Border Patrol Vice President stating the immigration problem. I believe someone who is stating a fact because he is there vs governmental paperwork.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWX3-6AEgiE

            Your media lies!

          • Daniel Schealler

            Explain this to me then. Why are there so many more of these vagrants here? I live in CaliMexico, we clearly see what is going on. When I first moved to this state the border patrol used to fly over the fields and go onto the farms to arrest and deport.

            How could someone as ignorant as I ever explain something to one as learned as you, Joe?

            By the way, I did read through the paper work and found little innuendos within the writing that basically states in a subtle manner that it’s all ‘hands off.’

            Yet you continue to hoard your knowledge! Why won’t you grant me the gift of an example? Why do you taunt my ignorance with your knowledge, only to withhold that knowledge from me even as I come to your very doorstep?

            Your media lies!

            The document I referenced earlier? It was referenced to by sites that agree with you! For example, Conservative Daily [link].

            Do you mean to say that sites such as Conservative Daily, that agree with you, are lying? Because I have not referenced any media aside from sites such as Conservative Daily. I have only looked at sites that agree with you!

            You have said:

            … the government under Obama prevents them from doing their jobs because they were ‘ordered’ to stand down by the Obama administration many many times and they were told to let illegals pass. Why not take a gander and look it up. There are quite a few articles stating that fact on the internet. You just need to take the time to look the subject up.

            I only did as I was told! I did ‘take a gander’ at articles on the internet, and exclusively only articles that agree with you! Most of them did not reference any examples of orders from the Obama Administration. Your video makes a strong case, but offers no such examples or references. The only such example I could find of an administrative instruction was the one to which I linked earlier.

            Again: If that is not the document that I should be using, correct me! What do these orders coming from the Obama Administration say? I genuinely want to know. If there are other examples of such orders coming down from the administration to which you have access and I have not yet found, why won’t you share them with me? Why hoard your knowledge, when you could so very easily use it to persuade me?

            And again: To my reading, the document I have referenced does not say that border patrol should freely let illegal immigrants pass the border. You say that it implies in several places that they should – yet you do not say where! Again you hoard your knowledge from me.

            It’s not fair Joe, I only want to know!

          • Daniel Schealler

            Don’t leave me mired in ignorance, Joe!

            Please, be generous in your wisdom!

          • Daniel Schealler

            To have come so close to someone such as yourself, who knows so much about these issues, only to be abandoned, is very disappointing.

    • The avg illegal saves the taxpayer $750,000. Which would more than not pay
      for the wall As for the wall design we have millions of miles of them
      all over the US they are called round walls

    • Daniel Max Ketter

      We should help those evacuees and not keep them out. My girl Kristy is engaged to a Mexican refugee, and he will be the the finest son-in-law I’ve ever had, much better than my hiv+ boy lewis who sells crack to high school students. There are some fine folks down there on the border and they should be entitled to live here.

      • joe schmo

        Oh boy, you have no vision. I look at Europe and I see a complete annihilation.

        Well? Your family sounds like part of the low-info group. Trumps kids were told not to drink, not to smoke, not to take drugs. All so far, are good hard working kids. My sibling and I had great parents as an example. We did none of the above. Strict parents who were legal immigrants and were educated to boot. We are both hard workers. My sibling has a 6 figure job and I have a master’s and this coming from a father who came to Canada as an indentured servant with $7.00 in his pocket. He had to have $1000.00, speak English and somewhat of an education to immigrate into this country. Liberals are too lenient. That’s why we are in the shape we’re in.

        You need to get off the dole, buddy. This country is heading in the WRONG direction.

    • Williamsburg winch linda rae kitterm and daughters are sooo..ghastly, and fell off the ugly tree, hitting every branch on their way down

    • Daniel Max Ketter

      But Dan Ketters mama was a wheatback

  • Bolofia

    I am grateful that the author was not part of the NASA team charged with the goal of putting a man on the moon. I question whether Mr. Rhuzkan has tallied the cost in ruined lives or the federal/state/municipal tax burdens that have accrued since even the year 2008. Frankly, I don’t give a dam what it would cost to construct a real wall. As a border resident, I am sick to death of what we have to put up with on a daily basis.

  • Andrew Freeland

    You can try the TrumptyDumpty magic wall, but so much for the cutting taxes and gubmint – and getting Mexico to pay for it – yeah, right. That’s like when GW Bush cut taxes on the rich – it was supposed to really spur economic growth – by 2007 we had a huge recession beginning. Why was this? – the tax cuts should have had the economy just skyrocketing – all those trickledown claims were just bs – most of that $ went to stocks, bank accts, the Cayman Islands, Swiss accts, etc. – they didn’t have to hire lots of people with it, or raise salaries.

    • kilee

      I guess the great wall of china is a magic wall as well?

    • Duke Woolworth

      Trickle down= Voodoo economics. Just ask W’s dad.

    • joe schmo

      Are you really that stupid? Trump knows how to work with money Bush did not. Guess you haven/t figured it out yet, corporations and rich people always find a work around. Your side is just making the rich richer (most are liberals by the way) and the poor poorer. I guess you want America to completely go down the drain? Look at Europe.

  • buttholepunch

    Are any of the Trump buildings even 95 stories?

  • Alvin Harrison

    TUMPS “REAL” PLAN TO CURB ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION….

    The Donald has told us he would build a wall to deter illegals from invading America. Not only is such a project crazy expensive it would take many years to complete and in my opinion not do it’s intended task anyway.

    But the GOP already has a plan in place to deter such immigration. Screw up the country so bad no one wants to come here. They are already setting up the country to be the land of the have and have nots with 90% of the citizens in the “have not” category. When the only jobs left here for our uneducated masses are of the type the illegals now do, there will be no need for the illegals…big corporate farms, restaurants, builders and the rest who now hire illegals will be able to get all of the cheap unskilled labor they need from our children without risking the fines they incur when caught hiring immigrants.

    So there is no need to build a wall. Illegals will not bother trying to compete with those who live here that will do the same jobs at the same ridiculously low pay. Our citizens will then be able to live in the same squalid conditions as the illegals, do the backbreaking labor they do…. at the same cost to the employers. We may find the wall will be keeping people in….not keeping people out.

    • joe schmo

      Curbing Fat, adding import taxes, tariffs:) Does it get any simpler? LOL, no nothing will stop people from coming here. If anything it will make them want to come here even more! But let them come LEGALLY like my parents did.

      Boy, are you liberals uninformed! Dude, let me ask you who did the jobs in this country before? 40% of Americans are OUT OF WORK! Students graduating from universities can’t even get jobs when they get out. American kids work 2 to 3 jobs. I see it all around me in the state I live in. The illegals have ALL the jobs. Not fair! Agriculture can be mechanized. Fast food can be automated and is beginning to go that direction. What brought that into play. Your stupid $15.00 an hour stunt. Then what? We will have more losers on welfare living off our system? No thanks. You people never think about the consequences of your actions. Never! News for you reinstate the Bracero program. Let them come over here during the season, work here then go home. Let the border patrol come onto the ranches and check papers like they used to. I used to work in agriculture, I saw exactly what was going on.

      If this trend of low educated vagrants continues,we will sink. We are already sinking. Look at Europe. I have family there. IT’S A MESS. There is a reason Putin is not letting anyone in.

  • Duke Woolworth

    This would send the price of the materials used astronomically by making them unobtainable, raising the costs of building elsewhere so high they would stop projects considered vital to the economy, such as roads, foundations, and yes, walls.
    As there’s little groundwater in the sandy desert, tunneling would be an option anyway.

    • joe schmo

      Your not much of a visionary are you and you probably failed economics….?

      • Lynda Groom

        It is called supply and demand and one of the basics of economics. Look to the the history of the shortages of cement and what happended to the prices when Chiina started using 55% of the world supply. You will then begin to grasp the meaning of Duke Woodworth’s comment.

        • joe schmo

          My dear, I do understand supply and demand. LOL, the plan is, should Donald Trump become president, to bring those companies BACK to the U.S. and oh, I forgot to mention….We could not afford these goods if they were produced out of the country and still charged a tariff. Meaning….these countries would have to come back merely to cut costs:) Isn’t that what you morons want as well….that is…. to stop the outsourcing.

          • Lynda Groom

            Pie in the sky economic solutions for those not familiar with the realities of global trade. Your comments find you clearly planted in that camp.

          • joe schmo

            Yah, like you’re Donald Trump and have 10 billion in the bank. If you were so knowledgeable on global trade, you would be a millionaire.

          • Lynda Groom

            Well we came close to the millionaire status, but then the equity in our home took a dump in the last years of the Bush administration and our stock portfolio was in the same boat. In the past six years the value of the home has recovered just over 50% of that earlier loss, but the stocks until a few weeks ago were double. All in all we fell a tad short of the big number. Of course we did not start with the multi millions like Trump got from his daddy.

          • XanderDeWijs

            Trump doesn’t have 10 billion dollars, not even half that.

          • Sterne Kind

            Donald Trump does not have $10 billion in the bank or anywhere else.

      • XanderDeWijs

        I envision collapsing bridges, while we built a wall, which is entirely too low.

  • Lynda Groom

    Lets cut to the chase. The number one reason why Trumps’ wall is so implausible can be reduced to one word…ladders.

    • joe schmo

      🙂 with troops and the border patrol on the other side waiting to guide them back down south 1000 miles or more! Must I remind you, they did some garbage removal in San Diego in the 40’s.

      • nominalize

        “…with troops and the border patrol on the other side waiting ” because THAT will save money!

        • Lynda Groom

          Nice snark, but maybe too subtle for Joe.

    • TGuerrant

      No the number one reason is boats. They’re already a major channel for human smuggling and will continue to be.

      • Lynda Groom

        Indeed, folks often forget the lessons of the period of Prohibition. Thousand of miles of coast line and the boats needed to smuggle the goods.

    • XanderDeWijs

      also ….. canons.
      also ….. small aircraft loaded with C4

  • Real Wood

    Hoover Dam, Unlike Trump’s wall has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits? Would the tax dollars not spent on supporting these invaders be considered a qualitative, verifiable benefit? What about the tax dollars spent arresting, convicting and incarcerating our wonderful law breaking guests? Also, I would hope that after 2000 years concrete technology has advanced enough for poured in place concrete to be used in the hot, dry regions of the southwest without getting “screwed up”, for some of the largest concrete pours ever have occurred in desert regions. This “civil engineer” needs to stick to his drawings and leave the “implausible” tasks in the hands of people with vision and the proper attitude to secure our borders and protect our nation.

    • joe schmo

      Nice job! We know it can be done. These people just choose to leave their blinders on because they have NO vision. They are part of the ‘Collective.’

  • joe schmo

    Nothing is implausible if you are a builder. He pointed out Dwight Eisenhower in his last speech and how he removed 1 million people. I really don’t see where there is a problem.

    • XanderDeWijs

      bedause you don’t see it, is why lose Presidentials.

  • Jack_Carter_USA

    A 20-foot wall keeps people out only until someone brings a 21-foot ladder.

    • The Wet One

      D’OH!!!

    • joe schmo

      With the border patrol waiting on the other side to kick that ladder down or arrest the perpetrators and send them home…..don’t think it will work!

    • TGuerrant

      A 20-foot wall around Donald Trump might be all we need.

      • Get Schwifty

        So an aboveground well.

        • Leo Freeman

          Fill it with cement and you’d have another Trump Tower!

    • XanderDeWijs

      actually LOL

    • toobored54

      That’s where the machine gun towers come in.

  • nominalize

    Let’s not forget that illegal immigration is not actually a problem. It’s illegal, yes, but so is speeding, only speeding actually can be frequently dangerous.

    But neither are big huge deals. Using government money to solve non-problems is the definition of government inefficiency. Sad that so many Americans are clamoring for more inefficient government.

  • The Wet One

    I always enjoy an expert analysis of hare brained schemes.

    • joe schmo

      Well seeing that you would leave the border wide open for everyone and anyone to enter then that’s even stupider than putting up a wall or letting the border patrol do their jobs.

      • XanderDeWijs

        please, please, please NOMINATE TRUMP!!!

        Surest way to ensure it would never get build.

  • pisces63

    I wonder what the Caribes are thinking. Oh, they are extinct thanks to Columbus.
    Detroit? Pontiacs? Erie. Seminole. Apache. Comanche. Black Foot. Sioux.
    Iroquois. Crow. Over half the Hawaiians 150 years after Captain Cooke landed in the then Sandwich Islands. As a black woman, I am laughing at the paranoia caused by pay back is a mother. The reality is, the fastest number of immigrants are Asian. They are brought
    here to get high tech jobs for low pay. They hand out green cards and working visas hand over fist. You’re looking at South America and neglecting the east.

  • Bergeron

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, Interstate 10 follows roughly the same route as the proposed wall, was built under similar conditions, and used more material and labor per mile than the proposed wall would. And yet it exists. The average cost per mile of a 6-lane highway is about $7 million per mile, so the total cost of 2,000 miles of the wall can reasonably be projected to be $14 billion. Which is roughly the cost of three of those Nimitz-class aircraft carriers the author mentions. This article doesn’t strike me as credible. For cost per highway mile see http://www.artba.org/about/transportation-faqs/#20

  • Arakiba

    lol, maybe he can build a ladder to heaven instead.

  • XanderDeWijs

    Wall????? There’s this new technology, called planes …

  • Optimista

    Not only is the wall plausible we have built a heck of lot more than that in sound barrier walls around the country than 1,900 miles. This so called engineer has no clue what he is talking about. It can be manufactured on site and most of the materials can be generated on site. If we can build a 4 lane interstate from Chicago to LA we can build a wall along the southern border. We don’t need a wall the full length in any event. In some areas intense 24/7 patrolling will be necessary. Collecting and returning these invaders as they are apprehended will go a long way to stem the tide, along with E-Verify enforcment with stiff Employer fines will get the job done.

  • Latin – american

    That is the kind of wall needed last night to stop the mexican to win the game ( soccer). By the way, a wall with a foundation of only 6 feet deep would be as effective as the fence already built. Even a grandmother can cross it. If you guys want to be effectively successful, that wall is have to be at least 100 feet deep. There have been already found 25 meters deep tunnels. That is almost 100 feet. Just saying….

  • LeeLee Turner

    We went to the moon and we can’t build a wall?

    BTW, I put in the author’s name in google as follows and basically nothing comes up:

    Ali Rhuzkan -trump

    I call BS on this entire story.

    • Sterne Kind

      I hear that frequently from cons. We went to the moon, but cannot build a 2,000 mile wall on our southern border? Totally, completely different things. Apples and tomatoes.

      • Joshua Dodd

        But both apples and tomatoes are fruit.

        • Sterne Kind

          Both apples and oranges are fruit.

  • Super Serious

    I’m not familiar with any specifics Trump has offered on his wall, but there is another example of a long and effective wall, the Israeli West Bank barrier. The total planned length is 430 miles with 272 miles completed and it is built in a desert. The only reason it’s not already done is because of political delays, nothing to do with the actual difficulty of construction. This barrier has been very effective in reducing suicide bombings and other violence.

    A more basic border barrier also exists in the desert. The Israel–Egypt barrier is 245 miles long and was completed in 3 years (no political delays), costing roughly the equivalent of US$413m. Build that 8 times over and you have a complete US-Mexico border fence.

    Border barriers are plausible to construct, even in the desert. They might not meet Donald Trump’s preferred specifications, but simple barrier to make crossing more difficult combined with border patrol would be a significant obstacle and deterrent. Currently, a random person coming from Guatemala City to McAllen can ride on top of a few trains and get there in just under a week. Are they more likely to take this journey knowing an open border awaits them, or knowing a fence and armed security awaits them?

    The reason a complete border fence doesn’t exist between the US and Mexico has nothing to do with engineering and everything to do with politics, land rights, and environmental concerns. Politicians oppose more border fencing because of advocacy groups who want open movement, even if that movement is in violation of US laws and nationally unpopular with the citizens themselves. Portions of the border belong to native American tribes and cannot be seized so simply for government use. A fence could disrupt the natural habitat of animals in the area. Any concerns beyond these are invented and not worth serious discussion.

    Perhaps Trump’s fantasies aren’t plausible but a generic barrier is, if the political will exists.

  • Joshua Dodd

    “The hot, dry climate in the border regions would complicate cast-in-place construction because high heat tends to screw up the chemical reactions that cause concrete to harden.”
    Really? There are numerous highway and dam infrastructure in the hot dry climate of this region that exists today…
    Notice how the Author offers his own idea for a wall. He does mention that there are many possible types. What he also does not tell us is that Walls like Trump’s already exist in the world. Specifically the Wall barrier between Israel and Palestine and by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is called a Bremer Wall.
    Bremer Walls are made out of reinforced concrete and are meant to withstand explosions. You could shoot these walls with rocket propelled launchers and still wouldn’t come through. They are 12 feet high and can be as high as 30 feet. General Amos Yaron, the Director General of the Israeli Minister of Defense said that: “Each kilometer of barricade costs around 2 million dollars.” This means constructing military grade wall on the 3145 kilometer long Mexican and American border–one which can stop tanks and withstand heavy artillery fire and explosions–would cost 6 billion dollar in total. Keep in mind the US Army Corps of Engineers is already trained in building such walls. So as for labor, the US Army Corps of Engineers, who are already well skilled in the hows of building Bremer Walls, could handle the work, not “Mexicans”.
    According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform Illegal immigration costs the US tax payers 84 billion dollars annually. That means this wall would pay for itself at a small cost of 6 billion. 6 billion!

  • elixer8062

    A wall is an unnecessary waste of money. You just need drones patrolling the border. When they see someone near it they notify agents on the ground who intercept the illegal aliens.

  • Manado Jones

    Has anyone including Donald Trump or A.
    Rhuzkan looked at the map? The border
    between the US and Mexico from El Paso to the Pacific is desert. Could build a wall there, probably best to
    use precast concrete. However, the
    border between the US and Mexico from El Paso to the Atlantic is defined by a
    river and two reservoirs. Is the Donald planning
    to build a wall in the middle of the Rio Grande, the Amistad Reservoir and the
    Falcon Reservoir. Really?????

    • Ali Gori

      No and he’s completely misquoted by this dope.

      Trump has said repeatedly you don’t need all that 2000 miles etc. that the NATURAL TOPOGRAPHY handles much of it about 1000 miles.

      I wish all these geniuses challenged Obama just ONCE for every 15 challenges to everything they challenge Trump on.

  • Steve Stevens

    Sorry, I don’t read articles written by moslems

    • bordway

      You just comment on them, sympathizer.

  • bordway

    If a wall, fence or drape were of benefit, it would’ve been built by now and in many places has been. This isn’t about a wall or isolationism, and proves how far the Donald is out of touch with reality. In the vast majority of cases, people leave their country and travel to another for economic reasons. They want a higher income, better job, security for their family. In order to eliminate illegal immigration, the country whose people are emigrating must be able to provide a living wage for their citizens. End it today Donald, either build the wall or fund the economy of Central America to provide those jobs and keep their citizens at home. How bad to you want to be President, rich guy?

    • Ali Gori

      No because it was HELD UP BY THE EPA for environmental studies.

      I love how you all yap yap yap without having a CLUE what’s going on.

      • bordway

        Environmental studies? You’ve been smoking dope. What you give a crap about or don’t give a crap about is of no concern to me. The fact is that although it’s a wonderful idea, congress will not fund it.

        http://sweetness-light.com/archive/senate-votes-down-funding-of-border-fence

        Please, exercise your family reunification rights and go wherever they are.

      • J-san

        If they came here illegally, damn straight they should be deported. I understand you want a better life. Everyone wants that. But you cannot cut the immigration line to avoid all the struggles other immigrants have gone through. America will not allow it

    • Ryan Smith

      They come for the free welfare you idiot.

      • bordway

        Then why do people complain about illegal employment, knuckle dragging dolt?

  • ScottGilbert

    “The wall should reach about five feet underground to deter tunneling,
    and should terminate about 20 feet above grade to deter climbing.” Absolutely laughable. Hysterically funny! Smugglers’ tunnels under the border are already well lower than 5 feet. And climbing over a 20′ wall is no big deal; one ladder on the Mexican side and another on the other side. People will always find a way to get past the “Great Wall Of Mexico.”

    • Career Politician

      So you would rather them strolling in?

  • Ali Gori

    You people are pathetic.

  • Ali Gori

    Obama : “I will negotiate with Iran”.

    Media: “Crickets, drool, thrill going up reporters’ legs”

    2015 SURPRISE! IRAN DEAL DONE, SUCKERS

    • Ali, have you sought help for your condition?? By the way, in the civilized world it is always preferable to negotiate, rather than pushing the Red Button to drop bombs or hurling invectives. But perhaps you favor the latter scenarios.

  • JoeLorenzo

    The wall is necessary. Or we get rid of welfare. A lot of people say they are coming for jobs. I say they are coming for welfare benefits.
    I’m pretty sure I’m right. There are plenty of jobs in Mexico.

    • We’re certain that you need serious care. Are you that familiar with the job scene in Mexico?? Maybe you would like to apply for some of those jobs.

      By the way, people have come to these shores for far more reasons than to get a job or look for welfare. Just ask the Pilgrims and other Europeans who immigrated to America in huge numbers in the 19th and 20th centuries.

      • JoeLorenzo

        Mexico’s unemployment is 4.9%. Average income is $5,300 per year. Rent is $150 per month. Us Income $24765 and average rent is $1087. So monthly rent is 2.83% of annual income. In the US monthly rent is 4.389% of monthly income. And pretty much everything is like that.
        Clearly, they are coming here for welfare. So thank you very much.

        • Do those dry stats lead you you to conclude ipso facto that all Mexicans come here for welfare? Are you so dense and hard-hearted to infer that the children are coming here to get welfare? (Maybe you simply discount the children as being non-entities like many conservatives do, and therefore they are “invisible” in your reckoning)

          Is this what it means to be Christian in this Day and Age?

          Please respond, if you can.

          • JoeLorenzo

            Go blow up your Keith Olbelrmann doll and hump it all night. Isn’t that what it means to be a liberal these days?

          • What a strange set of values, and vivid fantasies, you have, Joe. I doubt however that a juvenile style of communication will get you far in life nor enable you to be capable of rendering service to humanity.

          • JoeLorenzo

            Oh Sure Aaron the aardvark, here’s the part where you feign outrage. You are a classic passive aggressive. I’m sure the ‘path of Aaron’ is littered with miserable people and horrible relationships due to your cowardly anger.

          • Joe, you may laugh all you want to. That seems to be what you are best at performing at this stage of your journey in life. The instinct and predisposition for name-calling is strong with you. To borrow a phrase from Star Wars “The Force is strong with you”, except in your case case the “Force” is an antisocial one that impels you to lash out at an entire group of people, and drives an impulse within to vilify people who don’t share your view on life.

            I have a question: Are you at least an adult chronologically? There’s a good chance that I’m old enough to be your father.

            Did your parents teach you to have respect for your elders?
            If not, they erred grievously in bringing you up.

            I have traveled to several continents making friends among people in west Africa, in Brazil, in two Muslim countries, as well as being in France. I’ve interacted with people of many different ethnic and racial groups and its been most rewarding. I look forward to continue meeting new people, especially people who are of a different “race” and skin color than my own.

            You referred to me as an aardvark. The aardvark is extinct, and people with antisocial behavior are destined to become “extinct” as well. Not that they will disappear from the planet, but they will walk among us but be of little use to humanity, if at all. That’s a condition that is worse than death—imagine, being alive physically, but spiritually dead.

            That’s the sort of possibility you should be pondering.

            “O Son of Being! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly, and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty, ancient, imperishable, and everlasting”.

            That’s a quote from “The Hidden Words” by one known as Baha’u’llah. I would commend to you to reflect on that aphorism, as I will also.

          • JoeLorenzo

            How Bahai of you, since I disagree with you say I need ‘serious care.’
            Lol. You are a very, very angry passive-aggressive. Tell me more about the road on your journey which is surely littered with failed relationships. How long does it usually take people to figure out that being around you is an emotionally toxic rat hole?

          • Well Joe. It seems pointless to try and have a decent conversation with you. The hate that boils within your veins is palpable. And happy trails to you.
            And Joe: As a “card-carrying member of an Indian tribe”, would you say that others of your “tribe” share the same hostilities as you? Or are you an exception.

          • JoeLorenzo

            Well Aaron, this may shock you but people are not all the same. You are so driven to put people in groups. Your mind just has to build all this human cattle fencing. I feel sorry for you. You are too blind to see that you come after people with your silly ‘buttoned up’ attacks with your silly use of big words and then you feign outrage when people call you out.
            You just want other people to work hard for you and fight for you so you can sit back and collect the benefits like some beggar. All I can tell you was that Indians were not slaves but the blacks were. Now sit back for a minute and chew on that and ask yourself why this is a true statement. And then go back and read that silly question you asked me about hostilities. I hear you and all I see is a coward.

          • JoeLorenzo

            Well Aaron, this may shock you but people are not all the same. You are so driven to put people in groups. Your mind just has to build all this human cattle fencing. I feel sorry for you. You are too blind to see that you come after people with your silly ‘buttoned up’ attacks with your silly use of big words and then you feign outrage when people call you out.
            You just want other people to work hard for you and fight for you so you can sit back and collect the benefits like some beggar. All I can tell you was that Indians were not slaves but the blacks were. Now sit back for a minute and chew on that and ask yourself why this is a true statement. And then go back and read that silly question you asked me about hostilities. I hear you and all I see is a coward.

            So now let’s make this clear, before you force me to work harder to support your begging ways, you should address me with respect.

          • Well, Joe. Since your cup is already filled with anger and disrespect and a sense of pride that you were never a slave, the best thing is for you to keep emptying that gallon-measure of bile you have so that your “cup” can be filled with a fresh “draught”. In the meantime, keep hurling your insults. As with Valdemort, you only discredit and harm yourself in the end.

          • JoeLorenzo

            Enjoy the welfare provided by the work of others and the freedom that other men fought for.
            G’day to you

          • Joe

            Welfare, healthcare, cell phones, food stamps, you name it. You’re basically an emotional thinker which means you’re a Democrat. Emotional thinking is a recipe for disaster because it

            isn’t rational. Rational thinking is necessary for survival.

    • Lucky for you and your forebears, the Native Americans weren’t sophisticated enough at the time to impose quotas on immigrants from Europe or other regions of the world, nor did they build walls along the eastern coast line of America and the southern tier of America to keep the early conquistadors out.

      This in turn allowed for the Pilgrims and Spaniards to gain a foothold here.

      Do you hate those Mexicans and their children who wish to take advantage of the resources and better things in life that your forebears eagerly anticipated?And do you wish to keep all the resources to yourself in a land robbed from the indigenous people, whose women were often raped, their villages pillaged, and then herded onto reservations? Is that something you’re comfortable with?

      These are questions that apparently never cross your mind as you ramble on about welfare and cast all Mexicans as some altogether other species that have nothing in common with yourself or with those who you identify with.

      • JoeLorenzo

        Put a cork in it Harry. I am a card carrying citizen of an Indian tribe. I don’t want “more people”. I am sorry but I do not see the solution of ‘more people’ as solving any of my problems. I want less pollution, I want less inflation, I want less crowding, I want less fatigue on my land. And I practice what I preach. I only have children I could afford and that also means I have the time to raise properly.
        As I said, for the longest time this country was very welcoming to immigrants and that was the time before welfare. Once we installed a generous welfare system (demanded by the likes of you) the quality and quantity of immigrants began to change. Now we have between 75% and 95% of all immigrants on welfare. And what you are really telling me is that I must work much harder and longer to support them, and you are somehow the generous one and the great humanitarian for forcing me to do that.
        No thank you Harry. Frankly, your ideology may seem decent to some but to me I see pure evil in your thoughts. Sorry Charlie.

        • Polana

          U R Indian?? Why U R on Federal welfare. How come most Indian tribes own big casino’s and do nothing for their people?? Where does the money go?? Why don’t they get them off reservation?? I consider all people equal and have the right to live where they want. No matter what color, creed, nationality, religion, eye color, hair, gay or straight or in between, We have one life, one world. No reservations, after all they are first Natives.
          I have visited Apache/Hopi Reservation in Az, as I worked with some of them, ate w/them their food and they ate my dish. Yes they respect the land, care about the environment but by the same token some (like any race) are alcoholics, live off government/tribal funds (so milk the system – welfare).
          Instead of rambling here, speak/help to end the stupid Reservation. U R wrong that illegals are on welfare, – most work for the rich people for cash.
          I am sure that U would hire any immigrant (legal or not ) if he /she will work for $8.00 hr and will be at work on time and do the job, than American that wants $12.00 and not reliable because he things he/she is entitled. Would you work for $25.00 a day?? Trumpo did pay in the 70’s – slave labor and got sued and lost.
          No American will work for that kind of money – they will go on welfare first and complain about illegals taking their jobs they don’t want in the first place.
          More white Americans on welfare than blacks or hispanics.
          As for immigrants, they have more pride than sponge of society.
          Just look at the red necks down the south that’s welfare states.

          Native Crete tribe chief “After the last tree has been cut and the last river has been poisoned will you find that money can not be eaten” How truel

          • JoeLorenzo

            Immigration drives down wages.

      • Joe

        They have their own country. They’ve fucked it up. They should stay there and fix it.

  • In-grown hair under the cranial cavity leads to hair-brained ideas. Thus, Trump felt compelled to share his ludicrous thought with us.(Looney Tunes Cartoons couldn’t match that for hilarity).
    Unfortunately, similar victims of the disorder are thinking to themselves—“Yeah, that will work. I like the idea. By golly, it’s got to be El Trumpo 2016!!!”

    • Larry Gagnon

      Hi Aaron: I almost want to vote for Trump to see him try to get Mexico to pay for the wall. Almost, but probably could not do so even as a joke.

      • Hello Larry. That’s an intriguing thought. You have a healthy sense of humor. I love it.

        • Larry Gagnon

          Hi Aaron: I cannot decide if I am serious. I have been voting in national elections since 1964 and do not remember ever being less impressed by all candidates on both sides. If I do vote for The Donald (not Duck), I will never admit it to my wife as she would react most negatively. Do you have strong positive feelings about any candidate?

          • That’s a good question, Larry. I try to avoid openly expressing a preference for a particular person because, as you no doubt have noticed, partisan politics by its very nature invites division.
            Once, a friend expressed a strong preference for a candidate I inwardly detested, but I kept silent. On occasion, I too have expressed strong against certain individuals but you have made me stop and re-evaluate my conduct in these forums. I need to come up with a better demeanor.

            I do have preferences and I feel it to be a duty to vote for whomever gives me the impression that they are interested in the welfare of all. There are individuals on both sides of the aisle who are good and decent people, but also on both sides there are exceptions.

            It appears that one group has wittingly, and/or unwittingly, drifted, in general, towards an exclusionary stance. And that sort of stance has always perturbed me, even as a child while growing up in Jim Crow Mississippi.

            Cheers!!

          • Larry Gagnon

            I agree. Very well said, by the way

          • Polana

            Vote on issues important /affecting your country, U and your family not the party. Economy is always better under Dem’s for the masses, the rich benefit under Rep. It’s a fact.
            Guess who will be building the wall – not some small contractor – it will be some big money buddy and the illegals – it’s cheap labor after all. No American will work for $5.00 hr, but will complain that illegals take the work away from them. That’s a fact.
            Scott Walker (WI) passed no bid contracts law and when they have to built new intersection on 50/94 guess who got the contract – his buddies that gave to his campaign, none of the small companies got even consideration. All was already done before the plans dried out. Gov.money came and all gone to his cronies. Now he goes to fairs and pats Hilda’s the cows.
            Money is gone, candidacy is gone and so are the friends.
            Even the Koch Bros.

            The cheapest way to keep the illegals out,build a moat around US and fill it with alligators from Florida and Texas. Salt water crocodiles. No money will be spend to feed them, all U can eat buffet. LOL Trump/Rubio/Cruz should consider that.
            All the poor southern states masses will go for it. And o Mexico will not pay for it – our money that we give to Mexico will pay for it. Still US taxpayers money.

  • Ted Bishop

    I don’t believe anyone is really talking about building a wall. They are talking about a fence, That’s much much cheaper and simpler. The Chinese wall worked perfectly. Today there’s not one Mexican in China. The native Americans were a hunter/gatherer culture and had no concept of private ownership of real estate. That type of culture has become so obsolete that they would all be extinct if they were not preserved by the modern citizens.

    • SaviorOfTheWorld

      “A wall is better than fencing, and it’s much more powerful. It’s more secure. It’s taller.” – D. Trump. He was very clear that he meant a wall and not a fence.

  • pfwag

    Typical naysayer DEM which is the reason America doesn’t get anything done anymore. Were FDR and JFK really DEMs?

  • Bill Carson

    You’ve told us that it would take an enormous amount of concrete and an enormous amount of steel, but you never put a dollar figure on that? C’mon, engineer: gimme a quote! And anyway, we can pay for it by advertising! 20′ x 2,000 miles: think of all that ad revenue!

    • Thomp

      Who would be the audience for the ads? 🙂

      • Bill Carson

        We could build a road next to the wall and have a one-way NASCAR race.

    • cielo2013

      Between $1.8 and $2.1 Billion

      • Orbitus

        Wrong. Add another 3 zeros to that. If you do 12,555,000 cubic yards multiplied by the national average of $90 per cubic yard, it is about $1.2 trillion. Not including the steel, the labor, or the infrastructure that would be needed to place the wall pieces. Roads, and whatnot that are hundreds of miles away from the nearest town in some areas.

  • Herb Middleton

    Why are we concern about the cost? Trump says that Mexico was going to pay for it. LOL

  • Thomp

    Thank you for taking the time to detail this, I’ve been waiting for someone to interview “a wall engineer” to discuss the merits of using precast parking decks as he suggested at the start of his campaign.

    Thank you again.

  • pokenhorn

    So somebody using the name ‘Ali F. Rhuzkhan’ says it can’t be done. Bull cookies. The nation that has been to the moon repeatedly, and spawned nearly all of the modern inventions that make life easy can do anything, especially when our very lives depend on it. Ali can’t do it; America can.

  • Joe

    Totally ridiculous and inane. A frigging wall? Wahhhh! This guy is such a whining crybaby it’s incredible. We’ve built roads, bridges and dams across an entire country. Hundreds of thousands of miles and this nitwit doesn’t think we can build a wall? We can build 2 or 3 walls. Really all we need to do is build a wall and patrol the areas (heavily) that there are no walls.

    • Donald Wiwad

      of course we would not raise taxes to pay for the wall. The whole world is laughing. lol

  • cielo2013

    Saudia Arabia started work on a 600 mile long security wall along the Iraq border. If they can do 600, not sure why the USA can’t do 1,800??? https://www.google.com/search?q=saudi+arabia+wall&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5lvjsxdTJAhXJWz4KHXYsAZcQsAQIHw&biw=1680&bih=810#imgrc=8RW4WimhPAZd6M%3A

    • JPHALL

      By the way, do you remember the Maginot line built by the French? It worked real well didn’t it!

      • cielo2013

        Apples and oranges. Very poor analogy. Maginot was for defense in war, not to stop immigration. The french are pussies. They were probably throwing flowers and baguettes at the germans.

        • JPHALL

          TYPICAL RIGHT WING NONSENSE. Like most things right wingers whine about, they neglect reality. The Maginot line, like the wall in China work for a while but then fail spectacularly. You either dig under or go around. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • cielo2013

            Not sure how pointing out that the Saudis are building a wall, so why can’t we? And, the fact that you are too stupid to realize that War and Illegal Immigration are two very different things when it comes to keeping people outside of your border make me a RIGHT WING nut?!?! I never said I was for the wall. I just said what Ted Mooney. It is ridiculous to say ‘we can’t build a wall’. Mexicans armed with shovels and ladders are lot different than Germans armed with Tanks and heavy artillary. Surely you aren’t too stupid to see the difference and have to resort to name calling?

          • JPHALL

            What is the point of building a wall that will not work? As a tourist spot like the wall in China? As has been demonstrated before, people go around, over or under walls. In wars they go through it. As an engineering project it is feasible yes. But as a solution to control illegal immigration it is a joke! No one
            but right wing nut jobs find this idea even something worth considering.
            Ask the Coast Guard in Florida or California how great the
            increased Border Patrol presence on the borders, with improved barriers, extra manpower and technology, has improved their jobs. The drugs and people still flow into the US. The only thing that slowed Mexican illegal immigration was Bush’s recession.
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • cielo2013

            I don’t think we read the same article. Not sure why you are NOT getting my point. I am a Civil Engineer by degree and a General Contractor by profession. I ONLY commented that the engineer that wrote this article was full of crap and enforced the theory of american exceptionalism by stating if the Saudis are building a 600 mile long wall along the border with Iraq, we can certainly build an 1,800 mile long wall. Then I think you mistook me for one of your loser political comment section trolls and said I was a right wing nut for supporting the wall, blah, blah, blah… I have better things to do with my life than argue politics with people I don’t know in a comment section. I am sorry if you have no life and resort to these antics but i don’t care to discuss politics China or the Coast Guard or Bush with you or any of the rest of the losers in this comment section. The article said ‘the wall was not plausible to construct’ and I disagreed with the engineer’s assessment. That’s it. NOTHING political whatsoever.

          • JPHALL

            As usualy yoiu missef tyhe point! There is no true justification for building a wall. Instead enforce existing laws and spend the time, money and effort on more useful projects. I have admitted numerous time that just about anyone can build a wall. Its usefulness is suspect for anything more than a affectation. If you are not as right wing nut job, why do you continue to argue a moot point?. No need to reply!
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • cielo2013

            Sorry but it is you who missed the point. Nowhere in the article did the author talk about politics, the effectiveness of the wall, the semantics of border control or anything else but Construction feasibility. And no where in my original comment did I mention any of these either. It is you who brought them up only, not me or author. Nor did I ever debate the merits of such in my subsequent comments. Where exactly did I say there was any justification to building the wall??? I am NOT arguing a moot point. I was only pointing out that you are arguing against yourself because I never said any of those things. Let me put it in simple terms so that you may understand. IT IS PLAUSIBLE TO BUILD A WALL. That is all I said and you went off on a political tangent.

          • JPHALL

            I see that this is hard for you since this to you is a one issue discussion. I have repeatedly agreed with you that a wall can be built. I have just also repeatedly stated that it is a waste of time, effort and money. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • cielo2013

            LOL! Really funny how you keep twisting things around. You blamed me for ‘missing the point’ when it was clearly you who missed the point and now you are trying to imply that it is ‘hard for me since this is a single issue discussion when it is YOU who is so caught up in the political rhetoric of ‘the wall’ that you can’t wrap your simple mind around the fact that this article is about ONE SINGLE ISSUE. The Plausibility of building the wall from a construction standpoint. That’s it. He talks about construction methods, material choices, quantities of materials needed, etc… He NEVER talks about the merits or feasibility of the wall in the article and I never spoke of it in my comment either and yet you go off on a tangent about Trump, border control techniques, the merits of a wall vs other options, etc… already told you i am not one of you or your loser buddies who spend all day trolling on comment sections picking political fights with people they dont know. And for your third twist… it is not hard for me to understand your point of how you feel that it is a waste of time and money, it is hard for you to understand that I already have repeatedly said ‘I dont care about your opinion on the subject’ because i am not one of your loser comment section buddies’. Not sure why it is so hard for you to understand – THAT I ONLY MADE A COMMENT SAYING IT WAS FEASIBLE TO BUILD THE WALL FROM A PURELY CONSTRUCTION STANDPOINT.

          • JPHALL

            Obviously you refuse to discuss the uselessness of building a wall. There is more to life than discussion all the factors in building a useless wall. Your obsession is pathetic. Goodbye!
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • cielo2013

            Haha! LOL!!!! You are the obsessed comment section troll loser! I made one simple comment about how the guy who wrote the article was wrong and you agree with me but continue to.obsess about discussing the lack of merits with the wall. Already told you, I am not one of your comments t section loser buddies that wants to discuss politics with other no.life losers

          • ThinkAboutIt

            The author concludes:
            “Trump’s border wall is not impossible, but it would certainly be a more challenging endeavor than he would ever lead you to believe. Maybe he should stick to 95-story buildings.”

          • CC Crimcops

            I am a Civil Engineer by degree and a General Contractor by profession.

            And yet you are unable to tell the difference between a fence and wall,

      • bob rivers

        That wall was supposed to stop an army, and the germans went through the ardennes in belgium, they did not penetrate the wall. Facts much, liberal?

        • JPHALL

          TRY READING HISTORY FOR THE FACTS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE IT FIT YOUR BELIEFS. Ask any modern military man about fixed fortifications and their failures. The Maginot wall failed because the French decided to save money and did not properly supply, man, support or update it. Also the big guns faced the wrong direction. The wall failed its purpose! So did the Great Wall of China. Trump’s wall is already a joke because we know that the Mexican drug cartels can build tunnels ten to fifteen feet deep for miles. So at five feet deep it too will not fulfill its purpose. All the gadgets we have been using (electronic, drones, listening devices, cameras) do not stop the flow of illegals. They just move to a section that they can beat or take a plane, bus or boat.. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            I and every other supporter did not claim that the fence/wall would be the ONLY method; the fields around the area could be either mined or laced with motion sensors. The laws would be changed to imprison anyone caught hiring illegals, and any illegals found would be immediately deported with no sanctuary cities. The problem would be attacked from all sides. BTW kid, I AM a military man.

          • JPHALL

            SO MUCH WISHFUL THINKING. It has taken you this long to realize what everyone else already knew. The cost in construction, staffing and equipment to cover nearly 2,000 miles would be exorbitant. And over time the effort would be abandoned. You still haven’t covered the real point. As long as businesses can hire illegals with impunity they will. We already have laws that are never enforced. And Obama is not the first or last to not fully enforce the laws. Congress made it illegal years ago for the government to raid businesses on this issue. As a so called military man you must realize that fixed fortifications like this wall are useless in modern times. Fly planes and drop bombs. Kill the men manning it then walk through, no problem. We already have found illegals mixed in with cargo. Thousands over stay their visa every year with impunity. In California they have found deserted boats all along the coastline. So get real! Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            The wall would still be cheaper than the hundreds of billions in welfare, free housing, schooling, etc we give them now. And who said the problem should not be attacked from the employer side?

          • JPHALL

            Pure right wing BS. You obviously do not live with or actually know any of these people. They are some of the hardest workers in America. The wall is a phony solution. The true solution, that right wingers like you refuse to recognize, is to fully enforce existing laws with one addition. That addition is a $25,000 per illegal person fine on all management and owners who hire or allow an illegal to work for them in the US. No exceptions! Voila! No work, no illegal immigration and no massively expensive wall. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            For the 100th time, I ADVOCATE fining businesses who hire them, and if you want – make it $100K per violation, I do not care. 2nd, the fence would help stop illegal criminals and terrorist from coming in, who would obviously not be affected by an inability to find a job. 3rd, claiming I “do not know any of these people” is a sign you are not very bright, as you make an assumption about a person you know nothing about. I live in a major city and am VERY familir with the illegals here. I also saw loads of them going door to door last week after a major snowstorm offering to shovel homeowners’ properties – yet another job that teenagers used to do for a few dollars until the illegals started showing up.

          • JPHALL

            You are the one who obviously does not know anything. The Sinoloa cartel is already defeating fences, walls and electronics. Just recently the feds have found several tunnels 20ft. deep. That is 15 ft. deeper than any proposed wall. Also the other cartels are driving semis and piloting boatloads of illegal goods across the border despite dogs, electronics and Xrays. As to illegals taking jobs from teenagers are you for real? Then arrest them and fine those who hired them. I bet among those were many legal people trying make a quick buck. Next you are going to complain that illegals are stealing jobs from American trash diggers. You are a total joke!
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            If I had the time to waste, I’d explain how wrong you are, as there is the FACT that entire industries that used to be filled with american citizens like construction, fast food, etc are now all illegals. But I lack the time, and clearly you seem to have no interest in facts.

          • JPHALL

            You really are that obtuse! This situation has been this way for more than twenty years and you are just noticing it? Where has your head been? Up your as*? You have come to the party late. Unless you are actually willing try to do Trump’s expulsion trick a wall will not change anything. As I previously stated, walls are for simple minds like yours. I have dealt with the people involved and they are a lot smarter than you!
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            First you claim the illegals are not taking jobs, now you admit it has been going on for decades, are you retarded? Stop posting to me, I am no longer going to respond.

          • JPHALL

            Wow Bob, you right wingers are really stupid! I never said that illegals are not taking American jobs. I said a wall was a waste of time, money and effort since they can build tunnels or take a boat. You have mistaken me for another right wing loser! Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            And there is plenty of tech to stop the tunnels, idiot turd. Israel is using lots of it right now.

          • JPHALL

            HELLO IGNORAMUS! If you had a brain you would understand that equipment and troops have failed for years. Why tackle the wall when you can get on a boat and land unmolested in most coastal states? Or get smuggled in the cargo of a container shipment like the Chinese have been doing. Simple, unworkable solutions salve feeble minds like yours. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            Idiot, how many times do I have to repeat the same thing; the wall and enforcement of it is only one part of the effort – no benefits, no anchor babies, no free schooling/healthcare/welfare, etc. With ZERO benefits available, and employers MASSIVELY fined for having even one illegal, there would be ZERO incentive to come to the US. Got it, chimp?

          • JPHALL

            Wow! So much stupidity in so little time. Those laws already exists but no one gets punished. Only a simpleton like you believes that Repugs in office, who have fought against enforcement for decades, will change. I guess that explains Trump, Rubio and Cruz. So many stupid people like you who need to believe demagogues.
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            Idiot chimp, who said I was a republican, you weak-minded turd.

            The republicans want cheap labor, the democraps want cheap votes with handouts paid for with my tax dollars; both are filth and should be eradicated.

            As for low IQ chimps like you who are all bravado/arrogance/attitude but no facts, you’re just boring.

          • JPHALL

            Typical right wing loser. You refuse to face facts, have none of your own, so you must become insulting. You are so sad. Go cry to your mommy loser!
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • bob rivers

            Typical low IQ moron who keeps getting de-bunked, accuses others of things it has no information about, then uses personal attacks. You’re f–king garbage.

          • JPHALL

            True to form as always. No facts only insults. So sad! Another Trump.
            Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • 2lumpsofclay

            JP we are not all that dense. I am a Cruz supporter. Cruz has a decent head on his shoulders and recognizes the need for a smaller government so the states have the money to handle things within their lines while the federal government handles the defense of the nation and it’s borders. He has a common sense plan ready to go. It is: enforcing our laws already existing on the books. Triple border patrol, use technology (drones and biometrics) use a strong e-verify with teeth and finish the 700 mile fence (he calls it a wall but it is the fence that Congress was going to do 10 years ago.) He recognizes the illegitimacy of a wall for a thousand miles and the catastrophic price and scar such a wall would have on a free people’s psyche. Doing all the ungodly crap bob is saying comes from the fear mongering Donald does. I pray everyday that God will pull the veil back to reveal the real man behind the orange curtain.

          • JPHALL

            Finally a right winger with a working brain. While I disagree about Cruz, he is better than that joke Trump. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • Arnie Fickel

            free Obama Phones do not forget that, yes people we pay for their phones while you have to pay for yours and your families, ever wonder where all these fees are going? And that is a fact as they reference it as “My Obama Phone” and they use it to sell drugs That is factual also…..should some have free phones in domestic abuse situations? Absolutly we need to help those women out from these beasts thats no problem but ex cons trying to get back on their feet so they can pull their next job? NO

          • ProudAmerican

            Completely debunked blather. Free housing now? Maybe you think they “hop the fence”, stroll down to the Gov’mnt office, pick up a check for $50,000 and the keys to a new FREE home to go with all the FREE food we hand out…oh and 100% FREE medical care too. Clue-less.

          • bob rivers

            You have no brains or facts, so please stop talking, idiot. There are lots of illegals living in section 8 housing, there are over 110K illegal alien chlldren in the NYC public school system at an an annual cost of $20K EACH where they each get free breakfast and lunch, all hospitals in the US are required to provide medical care in the emergency room regardless of whether the person can pay or not, a parent of an illegal anchor baby gets welfare, etc. Try the facts, dimwit on for a change, they might just fit.

          • Arnie Fickel

            thank you for your service., I hope you were fortunate enough to get into the air force…

          • 2lumpsofclay

            That is disgusting. Go play army somewhere else.

          • bob rivers

            Do not care what you like/dislike, and never will.

          • orthotox

            So, Trump wants a wall and you want a white flag. I guess that’s your way to make America great again.

          • JPHALL

            What do you mean by “GREAT AGAIN”? I SEE AMERICA AS STILL GREAT AND GETTING BETTER! Soon all you old losers will die and your stupidity with you. Good riddance! Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • H Janson

            “im a liberal and only what i say is real and anyone who doesn’t agree needs to die”

          • JPHALL

            Another sad right winger trying to be funny! Ha, Ha, you failed. Subject: Re: Comment on An Engineer Explains Why Trump’ s Wall Is So Implausible

          • H Janson

            i failed? you mean i just pointed out that you are everything you claim to be against?

          • ProudAmerican

            Well said. But you are trying to talk facts and history to a bag of rocks. The wealthy undocumented foreigner flies into the USA and the poor undocumented foreigners hire guides and cross a desert.

            There are a few things NOBODY really ever talks about. 1) the amount of counterfeit US currency 2) the proliferation of altered electronic and document records 3) that it is really easy to get in and out of the country at will.

            Maybe smuggling isn’t the world’s oldest profession but smuggling has been around for a very long time. Even the Berlin Wall and North Korea have been penetrated. Smugglers have had thousands of years to perfect their trade. Trumps BIB BIG wall is a publicity stunt for 7 year olds.

            0

  • cielo2013

    600 Mile long wall by the Saudis

    • William S

      This isn’t a wall though, it’s 3 fences and a road. Much cheaper and 3 times shorter than Trump’s proposition. Also Saudi Arabia has oil money and isn’t 20 trillion dollars in debt. By the way, this proposed wall plan would double our debt. I thought Republicans liked small government?

      • bob rivers

        Who brought the US from $9 trillion in debt to $18 trillion? Your beloved hero obama. A fence with electronic surveillance akin to the Israeli/Gaza border would work quite well.

        • CC Crimcops

          A fence with electronic surveillance akin to the Israeli/Gaza border would work quite well.

          Yet, The Don insists on constructing a wall!

          • H Janson

            So if instead he ends up building a high tech fence will you feel like you won?

          • CC Crimcops

            There will be no winners with a Trump Presidency.

          • vin b

            Fencing already exists and it gets cut up, climbed over and dug under daily. How exactly is building more of it supposed to do anything? Semantics of being a wall vs being a fence aside, none of it has value without border patrol and Trumps proposal says nothing of how to fund and maintain the 10s of thousands of additional border guards that would be required.

        • ProudAmerican

          Uh, aren’t you forgetting something? People can climb over a wall and in fact have been doing so for thousands of years in uncountable ways. People can go under a wall and in Just the Tijuana area alone all the dogs, walls, fences, sonic detectors, lookout towers and cameras are a joke. Well, if it didn’t cost us billions of wasted dollars it would be a funny joke. Read up on the hindred or so sophiticated tunnels that we have already found. Then add all the deep tunnels we will never discover. One last thing. Unless you plan to ststion CBP officers every 100 feet fot two thousand miles it really isn’t brain surgerty to put a hole in a wall even 10 feet thick. Ok, one very last thing, you can both fly over and go around a wall. Bet you never thought of that. …and the Israeli wal is how long?

          • bob rivers

            The Israeli electronic fences work quite well, and with cameras and motion detectors you do not need that many live personnel. The Israeli fence is many miles, BTW. There should also be regular radar scans of every inch of ground with satellite imagery looking for people, plus all housing, buildings and infrastructure within 5 miles of the border removed. If the US wanted to really stop the insurgents, they could.

          • ProudAmerican

            You do realize that your imaginative plan obliterates San Diego and Laredo, purposely displaces millions of people and cost more than all the money in the world just for eminent domain and adverse possession.

            Really, you are going to turn Laredo into a sand lot?

            That said,I want to hear your idea’s about tunnels

          • bob rivers

            There is already a wall around san diego, and laredo won’t be “destroyed,” just parts shifted. And if you were actually a “proud american,” you’d want to do everything possible to protect its borders and prevent the drug transporters, illegals and terrorist from easily entering the country. But it sounds like you have an agenda more than anything else.

          • ProudAmerican

            No Sir. No agenda. I just think condemning and destroying billions if not a trillion dollars of private homes and businesses 5 miles north or south of the US-MEX border, reducing a million home owners into displaced homeless refugees and making a dusty sand lot out of a thriving city like Chula Vista is the most UN-American idea I’ve ever heard.

            Being insulting and mean are not my style. But, you have never been to California if you think there is a wall around San Diego.

            After you level five miles of land north of the Border in Laredo, the thousands and thousands of families, homes, businesses and structures through to downtown, that would have their “parts shifted”, the fine Americans who live in Laredo, Texas ,with one of the lowest crime rates, are going to say “destroyed” if you level every building flat.

            That many Americans need to have their homes confiscated and destroyed through eminent domain to prove the point that a BIG BIG wall is plain stupid? Heaping unfathomable misery on millions of people on both sides of the border and bankrupting the USA…to prove a point?

            What is your solution to tunnels? I seriously want to know how you would deal with that problem. Remember that they discover a new or larger, more sophisticated tunnel every few months. Plenty of lighting, air conditioning and most have miniature railroads to carry heavy cargo.

            Like the BIG long wall, electric fence, minefields, trenches, battlements, guard towers, sensors and cameras would cost more money than the world could afford, “Clear all buildings from the land five miles north and south of the Border” would cost more than the World GDP.

            Oh, not that it would matter, but between one and two million or more people live and work within 5 miles of the US-MEX border in Baja California. Any plans for that “parts shifted” little thing?

          • bob rivers

            The israeli fence between it and gaza works quite well, and with such tech as cameras and ground-penetrating radar and modified earthquake detection gear, any tunneling as far as a mile down can be detected.

            If those people do not want to move: tough, that’s is life, and if they don’t like it we’ll cede their land to mexico and build the wall around them and they can choose to live in that country under its authority. Something tells me they wont’t take that option.

          • 2lumpsofclay

            That fence is not a wall, simpleton. Only parts of it are. Your dear illustrious leader has been shown to be a total loud mouthed buffoon who doesn’t know what he is talking about. The Israeli’s wall will be a max of 430 miles. Trump started out saying 2000 miles. He had to change that mighty quick because he didn’t know what he was talking about-as usual. Now it is 1000 miles. Logistics, you dimwit. No taking people’s property! Leave your filthy fingers off! Enforce our laws, triple border patrol, and use technology. And finish the FENCE. No disgusting wall.

          • bob rivers

            Another name-calling jackass, a dime a dozen liberal turd. Figure out what you are arguing for chimp, and let me know when you do.

          • ProudAmerican

            Wow. Sounds like you just don’t hate America and the American Constitution, you really must hate Americans too.
            Forcible eviction, confiscation of property, forced relocation and your concern for the citizens is “tough luck”.

            Stay in whatever communist totalitarian country you live in and please stay out of the USA and leave the people of my country alone. Go pull the gold fillings out of the mouths of Jews, celebrate incidences of ethnic cleansing and go ahead and seize private property without due process in your depraved imaginary “reality”. You are a threat to humanity with that thinking.

          • bob rivers

            When you grow up and have a real argument to offer, please let me know.

          • H Janson

            No need to cede their land, just build the wall on the other side of them. They have the choice to be on the US side or the Mexico side.

          • 2lumpsofclay

            I have read these stupid inane ideas and laughed my butt off. But you saying someone is not a proud American until they get behind that orange buffoons idiocy is one for the history books. You are so full of crap you are your own septic tank.Trump has an agenda you stupid buffoon wannabe. You ride his underwear like you want to be a pimple on his old mans ass. You don’t have a whit of logic. What kind of freakin American wants to grab up people’s lands cause they are so stinkin’ scared that they think an orange faced imposter is going to save them? You left your brain back in first grade boy? This is AMERICA. Home of what? the free——-range chicken? Property was of vital importance to the founders of this republic for the very reason you want to take it. Because the government of England could seize what they wanted. Property rights were written into our Constitution. You sound just like that rich orange faced toad. TAKE IT AWAY. I NEED IT. Give me your property you stupid widow! He has appealed to your basest nature and you have responded and been smitten by his foul mouth and even fouler nature. He is the pond scum of the earth.

          • bob rivers

            Like a typical liberal turd, lots of insults and nonsense, but no facts or substance. Yawn.

          • 2lumpsofclay

            Your own words condemn you. Trying to shame Americans into being bullies like you and toad. That is the reason you love him. You don’t love America, if you did you would support what has made her great all along–the Constitution, not some orange toad who revels in trampling on it for his own purposes. Evidence in trying to use eminent domain for his own pocketbook, and now wanting to make the press bend to his will or HE (I guess he thinks he will be king) is going to change the Constitution so the press is no longer free because he doesn’t want them saying “mean things” about him. He is a danger to what made America great and keeps her great. NOT HIM

          • Ken Leibold

            This would be fine with Trump….he is big believer in eminent domain.

          • H Janson

            San Diego already has a wall, guess what, it worked

          • Jozie

            “…all housing, buildings and infrastructure within 5 miles of the border removed.”

            LOLOL I kindly suggest you look at a map before you say such things. You realize that would entail wiping out entire towns and chunks of cities, right? Where would you relocate those people?

          • bob rivers

            Its called eminent domain. They would be re-located elsewhere.

          • Jozie

            You’ve got to be trolling. Is Mexico going to pay to relocate those millions of people too?

          • bob rivers

            Mexico will “pay” by having 50% of all remittances sent down there confiscated/taxed by the US gov’t, which is easily doable. The people will have to state a country of origin, to which they will be deported. They cannot stay in the US, I will stop paying taxes as will many others, and the entire system will collapse.

          • Jozie

            I’m referring to the millions of displaced U.S. citizens whose homes and livelihoods you would destroy by obliterating all infrastructure within five miles of the border. What happens to them and who pays for it?

          • bob rivers

            The cut from the billions in remittances, plus the saved hundreds of billions saved from having to educate millions of illegal children, for starters. Then the billions more saved by not having to provide free healthcare to millions of illegals, then…

          • H Janson

            Yep. Non-citizens pay double non-resident rate for schools and colleges and are given last-priority and shut out entirely from the magnets and elite schools. Hey look at that, problem solved.

          • 2lumpsofclay

            Sorry, but trump would not be a king. Both of you-and I know he is ignorant as hell on the Constitution=need to remember, congress holds the purse strings in the US.

          • H Janson

            he’s not ignorant at all, he checks with his legal team and every single thing is not only legal, but doable. he’s not an idiotic politician making impossible promises. he’s a businessman with decades of experience of how the law works and what is possible and what is not. Congress holds the strings on funding, but there are always other ways to fund things. withholding on remittances directed to fund executive orders is entirely possible and works.

            Remember when Obama promised to close gitmo? And then cried that there was no funding to do it? He could have easily enacted a tariff to fund it. It’s not even something new, it’s been done repeatedly in history. That right there shows you how much Obama actually cares. Not at all, that’s how much.

          • H Janson

            As for mexico not accepting them… that’s why you build the wall not directly on the line. you build it 10 yards shy of the border. deporting them is simply putting them on the other side of the wall. not our problem anymore. do away with the anchor babies and problem solved entirely.

          • 2lumpsofclay

            Less than 450 miles when it is completed. But really, this is not some video game. This is our country. A place of immense beauty. You are so hell bent on this crap that you sound like a military machine and no man.

          • bob rivers

            I and many others like me will do what it takes to get these people out of my country. I find it hilarious that the same people who bitch and moan about Israel, that jews “moved in and stole the homes of the arab muslims” are so, so accepting of the illegals DOING EXACTLY THAT in the US. I am fucking sick of their leftist agenda, and will no longer tolerate the illegals. EVERY penny of their benefits should and will be cut off.

          • H Janson

            Yes, and that’s what bullets are for.

          • ProudAmerican

            There you go again. Mass murder and genocide are your answer to just every little thing..
            …always with the bullets

          • H Janson

            Defense of the nation, what a concept. That’s what guns are for.

        • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

          I heard bolt cutters are pretty handy.

          • bob rivers

            i see another disqus troll….bolt cutters dont work on electric fences, imbecile.

          • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

            So the fence will be electric too, huh? Man, we’re racking up on the costs quickly, aren’t we?

            Then what’s stopping illegal immigrants from digging underneath?

  • Ted Mooney

    I’m not saying we should build such a wall. But people certainly do “check their science at the door” when they’ve already made up their mind. It is simply ridiculous that we couldn’t build a wall if we wanted to.

    • JPHALL

      Yes, we could build a wall, but at what cost. By the way, there are several ways to defeat any wall.

    • Arnie Fickel

      chinese did it, french did it, we can build a wall but I think we should invest in Velociraptor technology, build a strong dual fence and have the velocirapters patrol the fence line…

      • 2lumpsofclay

        Do you have any idea how long it took to do the Great Wall of China?

        • Arnie Fickel

          no

  • another example where we see how the mouth can often move faster than the brain…

  • Harshal Keswani

    Maybe instead solve the overpopulation in Mexico and automate U.S. production jobs to have a stable economy in which too many Mexicans are driving the prices of rent, food, and jobs up.

    • Arnie Fickel

      we should have the mexicans build it tell them we will pay them when done , then renege when we have them on the other side of the wall.

      • 2lumpsofclay

        Arnie, go to your room and think of butterflies and rainbows.

        • Arnie Fickel

          i will i will

  • Girish Kumar Ramaiah

    Excellent. A good research project. Wish Trump reads it.

  • Dan
  • bob rivers

    This is nonsense. Israel built a massive border fence with massive amounts of electronic surveillance, which if copied would be perfectly suitable for the bulk of the border, with some modifications made for rivers, geographical contours, etc.

    • des_3

      I’m pretty sure it’s kind of hot there too…..

    • vin b

      Israels wall started in 1993 and is still not complete, to this date they have only finished 266 miles. At that rate it would take more than 200 years to finish Trumps wall.

      Also note that it takes most of their military to police the wall or it would be useless.

      I don’t think you realize that the Israel wall is actually proof of how bad an idea this is when you compare the scale of the project

      • bob rivers

        If you are talking about the one on the gaza border, it was completed YEARS ago, and quickly. If you are talking about the west bank wall, the reason for the delays was political; lawsuits kept changing the position to protect various arab farms and villages.

        • vin b

          1. The Gaza border is mostly just a fence, not a wall. It is also really short in comparison to the length required to cover the Mexican border. So no, I’m not comparing an inconsequential fence to a massive wall project.

          2. The Israeli West Bank Barrier wall has taken this long for far more than just political reasons. But lets pretend the time involved is meaningless. Let’s pretend the wall could be done in under a decade. The effectiveness of the West Bank Barrier is still a good point to study: It’s failed in numerous ways.

          Much like the sections of the US border that already have walls, it’s only of minor inconvenience for those trying to cross. They go over it, under it or just use the ocean and go around it entirely.

          You could also study the Berlin wall for it’s effectiveness. As a military deterrent ? It had its uses, but overall? There were still ways under it, over it and around it.

          3. You really think you won’t have political delays in the US trying to do this? You are talking about stepping on the civil liberties of 10s of thousands of US citizen who live along the border and own land there. You will have tons of lawsuits due to positions of various US farms and towns.

          4. The Mexican border already contains fencing and electronic surveillance as you suggest. I think you have completely failed to realize that this topic is not about a fence; it’s about a wall.
          When asked directly Mr Trump responded that he is most definitely not talking about just making a better fence, he wants an actual barrier wall. That is the ignorance being debated over here.
          A wall of this length is not going to be any more effective than a monitored fence and yet it will cause massive amounts of additional cost, take far longer to do and for no provable gains.
          I’m just not sure you even understand what’s being discussed here if you keep bringing up fences.

          5. We haven’t even touched on the environmental reasons why this is a bad idea.

  • orthotox

    Send a rover to Mars that took the world’s breath away for its engineering audacity but you can’t build a lowly wall to keep out the aliens? C’mon! The only real issue isn’t what kind of concrete to use, but how concrete is Trump’s commitment. Once he’s elected, watch him stonewall!

    • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

      Like the article said, building a long wall is not an engineering problem, but a logistical one.

  • DrLearnALot

    Build a wall. Roads and bridges are crumbling, but who cares?

  • Arnie Fickel

    If he builds the wall, who is going to pick the lettuce for my salad or dust my floors, and clean my house? Christ this can not happen.

    • H Janson

      ah, i see, so you are a racist bigot

      • Arnie Fickel

        Germany is done. You’re going to need another Hitler to sort this mess out….and this was one of your posts? who is calling the kettle Dark?

      • Arnie Fickel

        ahmmm, name a white person who picks lettuce, cleans houses, and dust floors? white teens are too entitled to do it so immigrants and illegal immigrants do it, that is fact not racism…..or bigotry…..Tell bernie sanders hello///

        • H Janson

          I’m white and keep 5 acres that i tend myself as a side hobby, clean and dust my own home and still have time for a fulltime job and quality family time. So.. yea, you’re a moron.

          • Arnie Fickel

            so yeah your a liar

          • Arnie Fickel

            hows the crop? Juanita finish dusting Senorrrrrrrrrrr

  • hit

    I can’t believe people like Trump & this guy are actually talking about building a “wall” when it will never happen.!! bottom line Trump is an arrogant horses ass with no compass!

    • 2lumpsofclay

      This guy is trying to show the absurdity of the project.

      • Christian

        He shows nothing of the sort.

        • Patrich Urso

          Then you’re just as much of a horse’s ass as Trump, the person who wrote this article wrote it entirely to make funo f Trump and show just how stupidly expensive it would be to actually build it.

  • RuralLife

    Once again, reality getting in the way of Trump’s delusional ideas. BTW, the engineer missed some other HUGE problems. A whole lot of people own land on the border. Many of those properties includes beautiful river views, and river access (for irrigation, animals, recreation, and so forth). Taking the most valuable part of their property, and denying them access to the Rio Grande or Colorado river, should be quite expensive. Many other border properties are sure to be seen as diminished in value for having a 20 foot high wall blocking their views. I suspect some of the far-right anti-immigration conservatives who live along the border will feel differently when US government agents show up to take a portion of their property and erect a 20 foot high solid wall.

    • 2lumpsofclay

      There is a lot he didn’t include. This is an article not a proposal. But you are absolutely correct. I am far right and do not want a stupid wall. As all one has to do is look at pictures from East and West Germany before the wall came down. That is not what I want for my country.

      • vin b

        and the concrete portion of the Berlin wall as only 66 miles long, not 2000

  • Valentine Xavier

    So you’re saying it CAN be built. Isn’t that also what Trump is saying?

    • H Janson

      Not only CAN it be built. But it WILL be built. The only question remaining is how Mexico will pay for it. Not “if”. Well that and “what color would you like it in?”

      • Chon Pak

        Good luck.

      • vin b

        That’s perhaps the dumbest part of the entire proposal. You can’t simply force another country to pay for something you want to build. We would literally need to invade Mexico in an attempt to collect that debt.

        At that point why build a wall at all? Simply invade Mexico, turn it into a couple of new states, convert all Mexicans to citizens and voila, no more illegals, and they all get to pay taxes.

        Make the new border the panama canal, no need to build a wall at all.

    • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

      We CAN also build a solid 250x250x250 yd cube of concrete in the middle of Nebraska (who knows? maybe it’ll make for some tourism), but it doesn’t mean that we should.

      Think of the immense amount of labor, costs, and bureaucracy that will be involved in building such a huge wall. Wouldn’t those resources be better used somewhere else?

  • Brett_Bellmore

    This is absurd. You’ve pointed out it’s a large undertaking, without in any way establishing that it’s an impossibly large undertaking.

    Let’s put this in context: Israel’s border fence is a good model. Multiply the cost of that by the greater length America needs, and you arrive at a cost of $6.4 billion dollars.

    Sound like a lot? It’s about a half percent of our annual defense budget. Hiring the people to build it probably wouldn’t even solve our unemployment problem.

    • 2lumpsofclay

      So I take it you are an engineer? Did you even read the article? There is no comparison between what trump is saying we have to have and Israel. Their topography is different. We don’t need a wall. A fence is fine.

  • Manny Cervantes

    “Drive a Chevy through it”? Oh, that’s right, Mexicans drive Chevy’s. Otherwise an interesting article even though it didn’t get into the labor. Out and total cost

    • Robert

      Actually, if you head to the DF, Chevy’s are super common, both my Uber rides were in Chevy’s.

  • Chad Taylor

    Cover the top of the wall with solar panels and sell the electric to Mexico to pay for the wall. They could also hire me to give hard spankings to all the female illegals trying to cross.

  • mtpwolverine

    Israel did it well and cost-effectively. It obviously doesn’t have to be a 1,900 mile long wall. Thant’s preposterous. Walls only need to be where they are currently. In highly populated areas. The rest can be fencing. Just google israel border fence. Impressive, and it works.

    • 2lumpsofclay

      You go live next to a high wall and see how it feels.

      • mtpwolverine

        We’ve already got 600+ miles of wall and fencing built, including 20 foot high walls in metropolitan areas. It works in San Diego. If people would put as much effort into demanding Mexico reform, and address a government riddled with corruption, as they do with supporting illegal immigration, think how wonderful Mexico would be.

        • H Janson

          The wall results in a high cost of entry for the cartels. it does not stop them, but it makes it harder to do what they do.

          go to SoCal, the cops don’t even bother writing up illegals or arresting or fining them for most things. Because, as one cop explained to me after I caught and detained the illegal breaking into my car… “it’s like pissing in an ocean of piss. yes, i can arrest him, he’ll sit in jail costing budget we don’t have. then we’ll have to process him, pay for him to be deported and he’ll be right back here a day later, so what’s the point?”

          Same argument on welfare fraud… “it would cost more to investigate than they are getting and some activist group would sue us”

          What if it wasn’t so easy? What if getting kicked out was a lifetime ban? What if getting caught resulted in massive fines and hard labor to pay the debt… before being kicked out and banned for life? What if the cartels lost their power and Mexico was a nicer place because of it? What if Central and South America cartels lost their power?

          Oh right, that’s a Wall.

          Go to Mexico illegally, see what happens to you. Why is it that we are not allowed to even discuss it? Why are legal immigrants who worked hard and have abided by the rules in place being ignored and grouped in with illegals? Why do the dems think that all hispanics love the idea of amnesty?

    • Povel Vieregg

      Maybe you should check the map an compare the size of Israel with the US. You might gain an important insight relevant to this discussion.

      • mtpwolverine

        Or perhaps you should do some research. Israel’s security border will be 500 miles long and cost $2.1 billion. There is a picture below that explains in detail what is involved. The Washington post estimates a security border similar to Israel’s would cost $6.4 billion. Staffing strategic points that provide easier access than remote, rugged areas will be needed. The annual impact of illegal immigration currently is estimated at $113 Billion per year. Most of this is at the state and local level. We would recoup our investment immediately, and as more fence is built, the concentration of illegal immigrants attempting to cross will increase. This is such a no-brainer, it’s laughable. Povel, please do yourself a favor and learn how effective it has been for Israel in preventing terror attacks. Also know that we already have 600+ miles built, and that some terrain doesn’t require fencing. We could build a fence, repair it as needed, staff it with ample border security,and still come out $60 billion ahead annually from what it costs us now.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/56ab03c3a1392e1381944a74200f3cc322f515105541d5dcfba18b6513250381.jpg

        • Povel Vieregg

          1) You talk about fences, Trump talks about a wall.
          2) Israel is minuscule and populated all over. You can derive US cost by just multiplying length.
          3) Terrorists is not the same as illegal aliens. There will be far more people available for smuggling illegal aliens than terrorists. Look at Britain it has a huge moat surrounding it and yet that isn’t stopping illegals. Europe in general has natural barriers in the form of the Mediterranean and yet refugees keep flooding in.

        • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

          Israel is barely the size of New Jersey :p (And if you didn’t know, NJ is the fifth smallest state in the U.S.)

          Also, Israel wants a fence. Trump wants a wall. There’s a very big difference in volume between the two.

    • vin b

      The Israel wall has been in progress since 1993; its only 260 miles long and far from complete. At the rate they are going it would take 250 years to finish the Trump wall.

      It also requires most of their entire military to constantly guard it.

  • Almost always left out of the discussion is how much illegal immigration costs the U.S. Nearly all such immigrant households take more from federal, state and local gov’ts than they produce through their labor. In fact, the annual costs to U.S. taxpayers is far more (about 10X) every year than what it would take to build Trump’s wall and maintain it. That is the point he is trying to make. Getting Mexico to pay for it is a non-starter however.

  • dave0987

    “Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.”

    — This is a joke right? Illegal immigration costs this country how many billions of dollars every year? Not to mention the skyrocketing in crime, and the eventual changing of the electoral landscape giving one party – yes Democrats, a permanent voting majority?

    • Nicolas Ellis

      You missed the important words in that sentence; Verifiable and Benefits. 1) No one has built a wall like this in the last 2000 years, and unless you or Trump would care to comment on Qin dynasty economic policy and how it relates to our situation, there is no verifiable evidence of what very long border walls do an economy. 2) Economists are far from agreement as to whether illegal immigration benefits or harms an economy. Economics is far from simple and jobs are not a zero sum game where any job taken by an immigrant robs an american of a job. Demand creates supply and requires labor which generates wages that allow demand. To say that Illegal Immigration = BAD, PERIOD. Is at best a hopeless oversimplification and at worst the exact opposite of reality. And thats ignoring the whole problem in the first place of building a $20,000,000,000 wall that can be defeated by a $20 ladder or a $10 rope.

      • Will Brandt

        or a $5 shovel.

        • Shaun King

          It’s a good thing none of those German faggots knew about shovel technology in Berlin. That wall didn’t work either, right lib?

          “Those who are ignorant of history are destined to remain liberals” – Abraham Lincoln

          • vin b

            You do realize that the Berlin wall concrete portion was only 66 miles long right? It also required 300 guard towers, 20 underground bunkers and constant policing

            And as effective as it was: it still wasn’t 100% effective from keeping people from crossing.

            What’s being proposed by Trump is more than 30 times the size of the Berlin wall. Lets pretend the wall itself is free; do you realize the man power required to keep it guarded?

            We would need to put 10s of thousands of troops manning the wall 24/7 or it would only be a minor inconvenience to get past.

          • Shaun King

            So liberals are upset that it would create jobs? This is your argument?

            “Only being 99.95% effective isn’t good enough! We’re still going to spend billions of taxpayer dollars and infringe upon the rights of a hundred million gun owners trying to stop 12 shootings a year, though!”

            Liberal mental illness would be far more amusing if you people weren’t so dangerous.

          • vin b

            I’m not even close to being liberal, I’m just not stupid enough to think this wall is a good idea.

            You are a comparing a 66 mile long wall that barely worked and claiming that making it 2000 miles long is the answer.
            You ignore the fact that after all that money, time and effort is spent there will still be 1000 ways around the stupid useless thing.
            You want to stop illegal immigration? More power to you, but come up with a viable way to do it. Anyone with a brain that’s actually thought this through is ignoring that even if we spent the billions of dollars to start it, it would take decades to complete and it still won’t actually be very effective.
            Compare any other attempt at doing this (Israel for example) and you’ll realize that they’ve been building a wall since 1993, it’s managed to cost 2.1 billion dollars and they have less than 300 miles of it complete and it still isn’t 100% effective even with the entirety of their military sitting on it.
            A 2000 mile long wall will not solve anything. We already have walled portions complete and the portions done aren’t stopping anything. You think making it longer will?
            It makes no rational sense to take something that already doesn’t work and just keep making it longer; why? So we can have an even longer and still ineffective wall?
            I don’t give a dam if you are liberal or conservative, if you think this wall is a good idea: you’re an idiot.

      • H Janson

        Israel, wall worked.

        • Nicolas Ellis

          Really, what an interesting assertion. The IDF and Israeli Internal Security Service (Shin Bet) beg to disagree. http://www.haaretz.com/shin-bet-palestinian-truce-main-cause-for-reduced-terror-1.61607

          • H Janson

            According to an article 10 years ago.

            Israeli officials (including the head of the Shin Bet) quoted in the newspaper Maariv have said that in the areas where the barrier was complete, the number of hostile infiltrations has decreased to almost zero. Maariv also stated that Palestinian militants, including a senior member of Islamic Jihad, had confirmed that the barrier made it much harder to conduct attacks inside Israel. Since the completion of the fence in the area of Tulkarm and Qalqilyah in June 2003, there have been no successful attacks from those areas. All attacks were intercepted or the suicide bombers detonated prematurely. In a March 23, 2008 interview, Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Ramadan Shalah complained to the Qatari newspaper Al-Sharq that the separation barrier “limits the ability of the resistance to arrive deep within [Israeli territory] to carry out suicide bombing attacks, but the resistance has not surrendered or become helpless, and is looking for other ways to cope with the requirements of every stage” of the intifada.

            Hey look at that liberal, more facts that you don’t like. The wall works, deal with that reality.

          • Nicolas Ellis

            Terrorists find the wall inconvenient. Seems like a low bar for “working” to me. I’m not going to argue that a wall isn’t a deterrent for some people, merely that any fixed fortification or barrier is only as strong as it’s weakest point, and only as useful as the men guarding it. A significant portion of Israel’s military goes into guarding their borders, If a large part of 176,000 soldiers (compare to the 21,000 members of the border patrol) are only partially successful at guarding a wall both significantly shorter and much sturdier than the one trump is proposing, what can we expect from a longer, weaker, less defended border wall? Would building a US-Mexico border wall do something to immigration? – Probably. Could it significantly curtail illegal immigration? – Maybe. Is there evidence to show that it’s the BEST way to spend money to curtail immigration? – Absolutely Not.

          • Chon Pak

            Why do you like calling everyone a liberal? You questioned about “economic benefits” so people are answering you with regards to that topic.

            “Wall works”? How about you deal with the reality that you truly have no idea how it’ll impact the economy. Come on, stop using such a flawed logic. You aren’t even talking on topic now.

          • Get Schwifty

            “liberal” must mean any person that is kicking Janson’s ass in argument.

          • vin b

            It works in small sections near cities to defend those cities yes. But realize that wall is only 260 miles in total and that’s been in the process of being built since 1993

            At the rate they are going the Trump wall would take 250 years

            Walls like that work in short sections with lots of guards, but over 1000s of miles would be ineffective without putting the entire military sitting there on the border to watch over it

        • vin b

          The Isreal wall was started in 1993; it’s now 2016 and that wall is not finished, and has only been stretched to 260 miles. At that rate the Trump wall would take about 250 years to complete.

          Also by 2014 Israel had already began abandoning plans to finish some sections of the wall citing lack of funds.

          Walls like that are somewhat effective in short sections, but are fairly pointless in stretches of 1000s of miles.

          It should also be noted that it takes nearly their entire military to police that wall or its value would be nothing at all.

    • Povel Vieregg

      Ilegal immigrants is a huge economic gain to the US. They pay more in taxes than they collect in social services because it is limited what services you can collect as an illegal. In addition they provide huge amounts of cheap labour, dramatically reducing costs of many products and services.

      The crime rate among illegal immigrants is lower than for the rest of the population. Illegal immigrants have to work to live. There is no social housing or welfare checks available to them.

      Illegal immigrant in the US are essentially the same as the indian slave labour in Arab countries: poorly treated people payed pittance to do all the worst jobs.

      • dave0987

        Sorry, far too much real data out there says the complete opposite to all of that.

        Thankfully more and more people are tuning in and discovering it.

        • H Janson

          liberals tend to stop reading once they find a number they agree with and discount all other facts to the contrary. I know because i too was a hardcore america-hating liberal until i snapped out of it.

          They have spent decades destroying our nation and giving away everything they can to outsiders. Now they find themselves deep in debt with useless feel-good degrees and no jobs waiting for them. Rather than do something about it, they seem to think that the solution is to simply take it away from others around them. Anyone who does not agree with them is a “nazi”, anyone who does not go along with their version of reality is spouting “hate speech” and is a “racist”.

          The ironic thing of course is that they seek to segment society to fit into their boxes. All blacks are poor and live in the ghetto. All hispanics are illegals. All whites are rich and racist and must feel guilty. All middle easterners are victims of western imperialism. All women are underpaid and helpless. et al.

          And that right there is, in fact the textbook definition of racism and sexism.

          There are indeed some racist regressives in the GOP, but Trump’s not one of them, and most of them are not racist at all.

          Bernie supporters calling up successful blacks and telling them that bernie will get them more welfare money… trump promising to bring back jobs (remember that those ghettos came about when the jobs went away)… who’s the racist? Or maybe Hillary with her promises of “whatever bernie says i’ll do one better” is going to totally fix everything after NAFTA (which she supported) caused the problems in the first place. Surely all the big banks and corporations backing her will do something good for the people they have been screwing over for decades.

          Nope, liberals don’t like those facts. That’s why they make hair jokes and mew “Drumpf!” like sheep. They don’t like reality, especially the reality of their own making, but they will never admit to it.

          • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

            I know you would LOVE to talk about liberals and racism and sexism and political correctness, but sweetheart, that’s not what we’re talking about right now—we’re talking about a wall.

      • H Janson

        No they don’t. In 1997 they cost us $70b AFTER accounting for their taxes paid in. That was 20 years ago. Before all the whiny liberals demanded they get sanctuary cities, free education, healthcare, foodstamps, section8… It’s hundreds of billions now. These are not high skilled immigrants, and even if they are given amnesty, each one will on average cost the nation ~$1m in benefits more than they will ever generate or contribute. Please tell me why this nation should pay over $10t for a bunch of illegals who contribute nothing?

        • Povel Vieregg

          Texas spends about 11 billion according to this link: http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/illegal-immigration-cost-Texas/2015/10/15/id/696295/

          While according to wiki they pay in about 20 billion in taxes and fees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#cite_note-CBO2007-20

          In addition we have their positive economic benefit in lowering prices and demanding more goods and services from the economy.

          So they are a huge economic gain for the US. It is the US which exploits them and has big gains on their hard labour.

          • H Janson

            That’s nice, but I look at it on a national basis. But you just go ahead and cherry pick some stats. They provide no actual benefit. Wages in the fields can be raised to $20+ an hour and the annual hit at the store for the average household will be a whole $9. They are not an economic gain to the US at all. They are not needed, not wanted and should be deported, every single last one of them. And if there is a place for them here legally, then we’ll see about them being allowed back in. out out out

          • Povel Vieregg

            Texas was not cherry picked. It is simply the state with the most illegals and which is talked about the most and thus has data more readily available. The story will be much the same elsewhere.

            You clearly have no idea of economics if you think a $20 per hour salary causes a $9 dollar annual hit. That is the problem with you guys. You base all your reasoning on gut feeling and emotions and not on cold hard facts.

            You want illegal Mexicans to be the explanation for all your problems because it provides such a neat simple narrative, free from all the complications of the real world.

            All these illegals would not have come if there was not a tremendous demand for their dirt cheap labour. Go to any other western country and see how much more food costs when you don’t have dirt cheap mexican labour. Check how much yard maintenance, nannies etc costs.

            Cheap mexican labour has been a tremendous boom to the purchasing power of the American middle class. Many in the working class likely suffer due to it though. But that is a different issue. America as a whole gains from their labour but the working class losses.

            But that is different from the narrative you are trying to spin, which suggest everybody is a loser.

          • Cleareye

            I do exploit them. When I go to Home Depot ot get some help there are no out-of-work whites or blacks there, only Latinos.
            Do they fear the competition? Or do they fear supply-and-demand?

        • Cleareye

          I hope you are ready to work in the fields during the summer so we can all eat! Grow up. This is not 1890!

          • H Janson

            Go cry some more.

  • Will Malven

    Complete BS. Clearly the author hasn’t even paid attention to what Trump has said, or he would know Trump is talking about a wall 10-20 feet below the surface, extending 30-50 feet above ground and he would know that Trump said he would use pre-cast plank the first time he mentioned it.

    The ONLY thing made clear in this article is that Trump sure as heck won’t be calling you for engineering advice.

    • Rob

      And clearly then it would require more material (e.g., concrete, rebar, labor) which doesn’t actually change the conclusions of the author by the way.

    • vin b

      So you think making the wall bigger is going to make it cheaper or easier to do? Your logic is fail.

    • Patrich Urso

      So their estimates were even less than what he would be willing to pay for? Perfect, it just proves how retarded Trump and people like you are!

  • Shaun King

    >the same thing Israel already did is impossible, you stupid goy!

    • vin b

      Israel already did? You might want to recheck your facts. The Israeli wall is NOT complete. It’s been 25 years and they have only 236 miles finished; at that rate it would take them about 250 years to complete Trumps proposed wall
      Israel’s attempt at creating a wall like this is a perfect example of why it wont work. Since 1993 they have not even completed 300 miles of it and the Trump wall is supposed to be near 2000 miles long.
      In 2014 the government there began abandoning plans for entire sections that will never be completed due to lack of funds.
      The only stupid here is you and the other wall supporters.

      Also realize they use a huge portion of their countrys military force just to police that little section of wall.

      • Shaun King

        Why is Israel even trying to build a wall in the first place? Is it because they’re rayciss? Liberals tell me it’s because they’re rayciss.

        • Patrich Urso

          Nice deflection.

        • vin b

          Because they are in direct military conflict with Palestine. The Israel wall is as much a military defense project as it is anything else. Educate yourself before you spout nonsense and sound like a fool.

  • Why is an Arab telling us the USA cannot build this wall. Why don’t they ask a Mexican engineer who does not want the wall either?

    This
    country (I mean the USA) once built great projects. Now it takes us
    forever to do anything or we can’t even do it. It is far from “mind
    boggling.” We built interstate railway and then highways, massive dams,
    nuclear power plants. During WW2 the USA built 27 aircraft carriers,
    tens of thousands of surface ships, 60,000 tanks, and hundreds of
    thousands of aircraft…in just a few years. We have millions of
    Americans out of the work force because they have given up, millions
    officially called unemployed. We can built it and it will be a great
    wall. Or we can be dragged down by the leftists who fear a great
    America.

    • Cleareye

      All of those projects you describe were the result of government action, not private enterprise. I worked on what was the largest private investment project in history (at the time), the Boeing 747! Even that pales in comparison to Trump’s magic fantasy wall.

      • Who says The Wall won’t be a government project as well or perhaps a joint government-private project.

    • Patricia Alonso

      Why do you have to play the race card here? To be an Arab has nothing to do with the facts about this non-sense. Trump is not a builder. He has made his money from real estate, which is NOT the same as having the know-how to actually build something.

      • Spare me the crying about the race card. That is all leftist do. Trump is not going to design or build the wall himself, he will have top notch people do that. He also has been very critical of Islam so I question the motivations of the author. Makes perfect sense.

        • Get Schwifty

          Another Chump for Trump. To an idiot, idiocy does make perfect sense.

        • JameSon

          It’s obvious the guy knows more about building a wall than the complainers here. How does anyone know this guy isn’t a top notch builder? Comparisons to other concrete structures are for reference so readers can get a better understanding of how much concrete it would take to build a wall.

    • Get Schwifty

      “Why is an Arab telling us the USA cannot build this wall. Why don’t they ask a Mexican engineer who does not want the wall either?”

      No we should ask the white dummy instead. Jeffrey what’s your dumb opinion?

      BTW, Ali is a common name across the Muslim world, it is not limited to Arabs as you so idiotically claimed.

    • Patrich Urso

      “We built interstate railway and then highways, massive dams,

      nuclear power plants. During WW2 the USA built 27 aircraft carriers,

      tens of thousands of surface ships, 60,000 tanks, and hundreds of

      thousands of aircraft…in just a few years. We have millions of

      Americans out of the work force because they have given up, millions

      officially called unemployed.” Its funny because those things are literally nothing like a giant wall, and it was leftists who proposed them.

      You’re retarded.

      • Building aircraft carriers, massive dams and nuclear power plants is nothing like building a “wall.” No, the wall is easier. Next dumb comment?

        • Patrich Urso

          As outlined in this article, no it isn’t, and a wall has literally no functional use besides being a wall, it has no economic benefits whatsoever, at least dams generate electricity and those aircraft carriers can be used to bomb those dirty Mexicans you hate so much.

          You’re retarded.

          • I though liberals like you were offended when people use terms like “slut,” “fat,” “crippled” and “retard.” Typical hypocrite.

  • Cleareye

    Trump is a certified moron. His fantasy wall would cost the equivalent of going to the moon, and more! What would we get for sucha waste of resources? Nothing. The ordinary illegal immigrant could out think Trump in this area. He is an embarrassment to the real estate business.

    • Patricia Alonso

      And even assuming this “wall” is doable… where is the money to build this going to come from? Taxes! Of course… and at the end, this wall is NOT going to solve anything, as there are many immigrants arriving from Canada and from over-seas, who by the way, are more likely hired to work in high-tech for a fraction of the cost. I have yet to see an Indian or Chinese mowing the yard.

  • Dan

    How long is the ancient chinese wall?
    I bet that one was tough to build brick by brick in the mountainous regions.

    • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

      …as compared to the scorching heat of the New Mexico desert?

      I’m from Texas, and trust me, you do not want to be out in the heat for long, especially if you’re doing manual labor. In the summer it can easily reach 95, 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

      • OutruntheWind

        Or 110°, or 120°.

        • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

          I lived near the coast, so it didn’t get that hot where I lived, thank god. But it definitely can (and does) get up to 110 and even 120 as you go westward.

    • Dr. Dan

      Amazing how much easier things are to build with slave labor.

  • Richard Verkist

    Okay so what trump means is. We take everything south of the boarder down to Panama. The wall is alot shorter then. He would also solve the amnesty problem. We would have all the resorces of Mexico. So with all the Mexican labor a shorter length wall all the Silver Tasco can provide and citizens ship for literally all of Mexico Trump can keep his promises. oh ya no need for trade agreements with our new Southern USA.

    • vin b

      I actually like that idea. We should just adopt Mexico and everything south of the current border down to the panama canal. We built the panama canal, lets reclaim it.

      There, no need for a wall. The panama canal is our new border, an already built waterway that we would then control.

      Immigration? pff, they are all now citizens of the state of Mexico, the 51st US state.

      Want to see how fast we can shut down the illegal cartels in Mexico? Pretty dam fast if we aren’t trying to negotiate permission with a corrupt government.

      Who is going to object? Is there any country in the world that would come to Mexicos defense and demand they remain a sovereign country? A good portion of their population already wants to be US citizens, so let them.

      Mexico too big? OK split it into 2 states and figure out some other naming scheme.

      • Richard Verkist

        Right. Maybe I should run for President. You are right about being able to shut down the Cartels except we cant do it even here In the USA. There is simply to much money in it. Not the drugs them selves but Dr and rehab clinics. Just look at all the money that is. collected the law enforcment goes in and confiscates it. Bam new cop car. Not that they shouldnt have it. Im just saying its a cash cow.

  • Eek Eek Ooogada Boogeda

    I’m reading along, and suddenly the author writes , “In other words, this wall would contain over three times the amount of concrete used to build the Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.”

    …and, he loses me RIGHT there. Why? Because, he shows his true colors. He’s not trying to be analytical. He simply hates the IDEA of this wall, so he’s going to spout some political BS. How in the world can anyone state that such a wall would have no “economic benefits” ? Because, that is precisely what the author is implying here.

    If a wall keeps out, say, a hundred thousand illegals a year, than the benefits are in the MILLIONS of dollars, every, single, year.

    So, I call BS.

    • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

      Though illegal immigration undeniably hurts the U.S. economy, at the same time it’s beneficial as well. Some illegals compete with similarly skilled Americans for jobs (and drive down wages for everyone else), but oftentimes illegals take up jobs that a native-born American normally wouldn’t. Companies then don’t have to pay highly-skilled Americans to perform low-skilled work, which saves costs and boosts the economy. It’s a double-edged sword.

      I agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem, but what we should be working on is a policy that can curb illegal immigration effectively and economically, not just a wall.

      • toobored54

        lets start with a big fkn wall, and work on legislation after the border is sealed. we have as many as 30 million illegals here. enough is enough.

        • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

          What a fantastic idea! Do it first and worry about the consequences later. Worked so well for us with the Iraq War, didn’t it?

          • toobored54

            Sure did, but not as good as Obamacare or the Iran deal.

          • disqus_2WE5eZrg16

            We’ve yet to see the consequences of either of those. The Iraq War seemed to restore democracy, but it was only after nearly a decade that we saw its full effects — civil war, increased ethnic violence, ISIS. So who knows. The Affordable Care Act and the Iran deal might work out perfectly, or they might crash and burn like Mr. Bush’s war.

          • vin b

            You know what’s really funny about “Obamacare” ? He actually didn’t create it. It’s not even a democrats idea.
            The healthcare reform act was first proposed back in the 1990’s by republicans from the Heritage Foundation and began under the first Bush president. It took 20 years of revisions before finally passing through congress and it just happened to be under Obama who actually had almost nothing to do with its creation aside from approving it once it was complete.

          • toobored54

            Nice try. The ACA was paseed by 100% dems, not ONE repub voted for it. You OWN theis bad boy.

          • duif100

            Obamacare was passes without a single republican vote, so that did not match the republicans view of healthcare!

          • toobored54

            Really? How many republicans voted for the ACA?

    • Chandler Bullock

      The author isn’t saying it wouldn’t have economic benefits; he is simply stating a fact. As with most bipartisan issues there is data that supports both sides; so there is no ‘verifiable’ evidence it would have benefits. The Hoover Dam on the other hand clearly creates electricity. That being said, there are some undertones to suggest he doesn’t like Trump, but that isn’t really effecting his numbers or his arguments as far as I can tell.

    • Chris Hood

      Woah, MILLIONS of dollars every year? Like, how many millions? Thousands of millions? Just because it might owe the country a little bit after it’s construction. You’ve never built a 1700 mile wall before have ya… The concrete alone comes to $1.123 billion at 2015 prices.

      • toobored54

        The great wall is 13,000 miles long, and cost like, 40 bucks. Guess prices have crept up over the last 2000 years. Still worth it.

        • Leo Freeman

          Wwwwwwhy not… why not build the wall from rammed earth? Cheap and environmentally friendly.
          Then instead of going down in history as America’s daftest President, Donald Trump could be fondly remembered for his great fence of humus.

          • vin b

            do you know how fast a wall like that can be dug through? cost of the wall is barely even an issue: it’s cost of being able to protect and police the wall that is almost never considered.
            doesn’t matter what they build it out of, no barrier has value without guards because it can simply be climbed over, under or through

          • Leo Freeman

            Of course, Trump would need to dispense with democracy as we know it. I saw a documentary recently about how the Chinese Emperor Qin commissioned his army of terracotta warriors, and the web of informants and brutal punishments he put in place to keep his laborers motivated, so to speak. Apparently, Qin also built the first stage of the Great Wall.

          • Oscarthegrouch
          • Tothe

            I am actually educated in the fields of architecture and engineering. Comparing the Israeli wall and the Berlin wall to a US/Mexico wall is not entirely accurate. After all, a much longer wall with much more sparse monitoring is a very different situation. And if you intend to add guard towers and regular patrols, the cost of the wall balloons even more. All the while, the case for building the wall is still shaky. Migrant workers and permanent immigrants alike are good for the economy. The welfare system rather than those using it is the root problem with welfare abuse. The drug war rather than the drug smugglers are the root problem with drug smuggling.

      • Oscarthegrouch

        Last year alone Americans spent $60 billion on household pets. I think we can swing a billion for concrete. Try again.

    • Get Schwifty

      You are talking about gross benefits, but net benefits have been shown to be a wash. Illegals provide cheap labor which means lower prices, they pay sales tax and are in most cases unable to collect benefits.

      Somebody has shown true colors, unfortunately it isn’t the author.

    • Tothe

      Immigration is objectively good for the economy. Actually building a wall is what wastes millions of dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRmS7q9DlM

  • Chris Hood

    Heeey, environment guy here. Just wanted to chime in with something you may, or may not be alarmed by. Based on the above, producing the concrete for this wall would produce 2.5 million tons of
    CO2, the equivalent to burning 844 million litres of gasolene or aviation
    fuel. Reference 1 on http://www.concretethinker.com/…/Concrete-Cement-CO2.aspx

    • Vern Shotwell

      Oh, good! Plant life around the world would appreciate the snack. We’ve been starving the plants this past million years or so!

      • Get Schwifty

        Using this logic, let’s pump Vern full of pure oxygen so that he’s well fed.

    • toobored54

      or the outgassing of 1 small volcano. big deal.

      • Dr. Dan

        Your comment is perfect example of what happened when a low information voter gets their facts from Fox News. The fact is Volcanos produce less than 1 percent of the CO2 emissions that man does. Now you might have known this if you hadn’t sleep through your high school science classes.

        You see there’s this type of scientist and they’re called Volcanologists. These Volcanologists risk their lives and climb to the top of the worlds most active and dangerous volcanos and place sensors up there which monitor many things including their greenhouse emissions,

        Wow that’s kinda cool isn’t it. They actually they measure the emissions of volcanoes Kinda the same way the do a smog check on a car. Heck they’ve even monitored some eruptions for example Mount Saint Helens was loaded with scientific sensors.

        During its eruption Mount St. Helens was emitting only about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, By comparison back then Cars emit about 81,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, And that’s just our cars we haven’t even begun to talk about all the industrial pollutions.

        • toobored54

          The most recent estimate, released this February,
          comes from a team led by Mike Burton, of the Italian National Institute
          of Geophysics and Volcanology – and it’s just shy of 600 million tons.

        • toobored54

          The most recent estimate, released this February,
          comes from a team
          led by Mike Burton, of the Italian National Institute of Geophysics and
          Volcanology – and it’s just shy of 600 million tons.

        • Oscarthegrouch

          The fact is Volcanos produce less than 1 percent of the CO2 emissions that man does.
          ===
          He’s not comparing ‘volcanoes vs. man’. He’s comparing one volcano to the emissions associated with the wall.

          How did you miss that? It’s ‘vulcanologists’, by the way.

    • Leo Freeman

      I wonder whether Trump intends to electrify his wall as well? That would really send the GHGEs soaring. On the bright side, Mexicans would get free energy.

  • Get Schwifty

    You would think that the pro-wall people would come up with their own facts and figures on construction to dispute the author’s claims. Instead they are bringing up side issues like the supposed costs of illegal immigration or the supposed ethnicity of the author.

    Their responses are much like those of the candidate they support: heavy on hatred, light on facts.

    • Vern Shotwell

      The data presented here are beneath comment. Of course a wall can be built, and rather cheaply!

      • Mirta Ana Schultz

        Please give us the engineering logistics of how to prevent tunneling (wall would have to go underground) and how to stop boats and Canadian intrusion, too. Because a wall in the southern region will be defeated by motivated smugglers, drug dealers, and immigrants–they will find a way. Or they will boat in. Please, link us to the article on how it wil be effectively done cheaply, and how to prevent tunneling?

      • Get Schwifty

        Thank you for being so specific Vern. I can’t handle the torrent of facts and figures you put up.

      • Tothe

        Can it be built? Anything can theoretically be done. Should it be built? I would argue not, and the “problems” with immigration are the fault of government welfare programs and government drug prohibitions. Is it the best use of the resources necessary, even if you think a wall should be built? Doubtful, especially since the economic calculation problem rears its ugly head every time government does anything.

        • Socrates Wilde

          Plus any was wall built to keep people out can be used tobkeep people in.

        • Jim Trebowski

          The main problem is that even under Trump, the penalties for hiring illegals is a simple fine. Until employers face prison time, they’ll simply chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

          • Tothe

            How is it a crime to hire a worker? Why do you imagine that people need government permission to travel, seek work, hire workers, or run a business?

          • Jim Trebowski

            It shouldn’t be, but don’t tell Trump supporters that, or for that matter, most conservatives.

      • vin b

        With what materials and what labor? If it’s so cheap, please enlighten the rest of us. It should also be noted that even if it were free, it kinda doesn’t matter whether there is a wall, a fence or pretty much anything: unless you can also justify spending billions of dollars a year constantly policing the wall/fence nothing is going to change. Walls and fences can be climbed or tunneled under.

    • Stella Saied Torrijos

      That’s because they are clueless. They couldn’t catch a clue in a field full of horny clues during clue mating season.

  • Vern Shotwell

    There are engineers and engineers. This idiot spends his time showing why he couldn’t do the job. No problem, don’t need him. Perhaps he could find employment stocking shelves or something?

    • Leo Freeman

      Yeah, yeah, but your (engineers) were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn’t stop to think if they should.

      • Vern Shotwell

        Of course they should! You cannot long have a country if it is without borders.

        • Leo Freeman

          There are no borders for the elites, or the big financial institutions, or the multinational corporations; they come and go as they please, freely plundering the resources of the nations. Only us ordinary citizens are constrained by border guards and security checks.

        • Mark Pompeo

          You do realize most borders are just imaginary lines determined by rich people? Sure some borders are based on geographical divides like mountains or rivers, but the overwhelming majority are completely arbitrary.

        • Get Schwifty

          Another “gem” from Vern. As if the US doesn’t already have borders. A border and a WALL are two different things.

          BTW, still waiting for your facts and figures. You have the nonsense down.

        • vin b

          there are more than 180 countries in the world; do you know how many of them have an effective wall protecting the entirety of their territory borders? None, the great wall of China is the only one that even pretends to have come close and that took more than 100 years, was never finished and was only effective in small sections
          the next closest wall would be the berlin wall, and that was about 60 miles long, not 2000. it also required 300 guard towers to be constantly manned all along its length and it still wasn’t perfect at keeping people from crossing over
          a 2000 mile stretch of wall? sure, it COULD be built, but at what expense? billions of dollars, many years of labor and then what? unless you keep throwing billions more at guarding it, its not terribly useful
          honestly anyone who thinks its a good idea is not capable of actually understanding the size involved
          just because it can be done doesn’t mean it makes any sense to do it

          • Oscarthegrouch

            unless you keep throwing billions more at guarding it, its not terribly useful
            ===
            Of course we would have to continue to spend money on it. Do you think there is no cost to the current illegal immigration?

    • Get Schwifty

      Vern sounds like a guy who is easily fooled. Someone please separate him from his wallet for my own personal edification.

  • toobored54

    china did it 2000 years ago and this assbag says we cant. B.S.

    • OutruntheWind

      Yeah, and that wall didn’t ultimately keep the Mongolians out either…

      • Oscarthegrouch

        They didn’t have machine guns on top of it, or FLIR, or ground-penetrating radar.

        Etc.

    • Get Schwifty

      Yes and that was made with brick and slave labor, two things that are out of date. But keep trying to come up with ridiculous counterexamples, I need the comedy.

      • toobored54

        Well, we have plenty of bricks, and illegal stone masons work CHEAP. We’ll be fine.

        • Get Schwifty

          So you want to build a brick wall? Even Trumpelstiltskin says it’s being made out of concrete and rebar. And where is this “cheap labor” if Trump is pushing them to the other side of the border.

          Seems like you’re the asshat.

      • Stella Saied Torrijos

        And let’s not forget that it took a century to build that wall. Some dictator must have been just as paranoid as Trump to build it.

      • duif100

        Machinery that replaces slave labor is out of date too?

    • scorpio

      You do realize the person who started the project of the Great Wall of China is hands down the most HATED king of all time in China, and that’s saying a lot.

  • ____

    They’ll just tunnel under it. In a day… A useless idea, the “Beautiful Wall.” Entirely symbolic.

  • cat_man

    Hey Pro Wall Folks! Trumps stupid wall idea (10s and 10s of billions of $ later) just means good business for the ladder companies. Sorry, the Mexicans will keep flooding in and soon MI-14 will be raping your sister, daughters, mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers, etc. And if the MI-14 members happen to be gay then….

    Low tech solution to Trump’s stupid and expensive wall: Ladders and ropes

    • Oscarthegrouch

      It’s MS-13. Fortunately, the wall will be designed by intelligent engineers, not by you. Ladders and ropes…. lol.

      • cat_man

        Ladders and ropes have worked for 1000s of years. They are as reliable as pencils. Why won’t they work (or shovels)? Also, an intelligent engineer said it WON’T work.

        • Oscarthegrouch

          Because we have machine guns now, and FLIR, and GPR, and a dozen other technologies. It’s not 1000 BC anymore…there are countermeasures.

          That intelligent engineer clearly just isn’t motivated to cut illegal immigration in any serious way, and is denigrating the wall idea for political reasons.

          • Tothe

            Again, could it be done? Probably. Should it be done? No. Walls, guns, guards, radar, IR, etc. cost money. Everything the government has must first be taken out of the productive economy. Channeling that money, raw material, and technology into a program not supported by market demand is destruction of wealth.

          • Oscarthegrouch

            Market demand… This is a nation, a culture, and a home, not just a market. And of course you are ignoring the destruction of wealth and social capital that is occurring with the status quo. Talk to a school principal where 1/3 of the kids don’t speak English and require a free lunch. Fifty years from now, with self-driving cars and other automation, what the hell will the grandchildren of today’s third-world migrants do for work? Spend a dime now or spend a dollar later.

          • Tothe

            The nation doesn’t actually exist, there are many cultures, and broadly speaking the market is the sum total of all voluntary human interactions, not just financial transactions. Government schools are already a failure, and blaming that failure on immigration is scapegoating. Governments don’t have the authority to operate ‘free lunch” programs in the first place. And automation doesn’t eliminate the need for labor, it frees up labor for new ventures that were previously not feasible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRmS7q9DlM

          • Oscarthegrouch

            And…. this is why I left the libertarian movement. We’re done here.

          • Tothe

            Because you believe in imaginary things, and can’t respond to arguments?

          • cat_man

            So you want to shoot and kill anyone crossing the border including children and their moms running away from danger (into the danger of an American sniper’s bullet). Are you senile? Trump hasn’t even said this. You probably want slavery to return too. So please confirm, Trump says he just wants to shoot anyone crossing the border on sight.

          • Oscarthegrouch

            If those moms have a problem, that’s the Mexican govt’s business… they don’t just get to move in here permanently. How exactly do you think countries work? I didn’t say anything about shooting ‘moms’… just answering the question about why ladders won’t work.

          • cat_man

            So why won’t a ladder work? I use a ladder all the time to climb up on my roof to clean the gutters. Ladders can be used to go over walls. They are very simple and operate very well. Do you want snipers and machine gun operators all along the 2000-mile wall or not? Manned 24/7 ready to pick off all those parasite Mexicans? Yes, a dead Mexican is cheaper to bury than a Mexican on welfare. Right? So it’s better that they die by an American sniper bullet than suck the USA dry. The purpose of these machine gun stations is to shoot and kill all the Mexicans coming across. Is this what you mean?

          • Oscarthegrouch

            You know how the police carry guns, but don’t actually shoot everyo…. you know what, why don’t you just have a beer and let the smart folks handle this, okay?

          • cat_man

            You say I’m stupid. That means you are smart. Since you are smart please tell me how many machine gun operators and snipers (and their spotters) will be needed – in order to prevent people from coming over in ladders and ropes by shooting them as they (including women and their children) are coming over.

            You get it wrong. Machine guns are meant to shoot ALL of the enemy.

  • 4Justice

    You shouldn’t print those fence drawings.
    By next week, Trump will claim the drawings as his own work

  • Tothe

    Join the great wall-building cultures, like the Soviet Union!

  • Stella Saied Torrijos

    This wall would take more concrete than the Panama Canal, which is very useful and produces billions of dollars a year.

  • Tucker Pendleton

    Walls can be used to keep people out, and in time, used to keep people in.

  • duif100

    All the technology needed to build the wall already exists. All Trump needs to do is manage the project as he is accustomed to doing for his buildings.
    The preparation of supporting materials such as concrete and rebar can stimulate an economic boom in several areas.

    • scorpio

      Problem is the actual amount of time to complete the project would exceed the maximum amount of time he has in office, which is 8 years. And as a president, he has more things to do than to supervise the construction of a dumb wall.

      • duif100

        Maybe Trump is way ahead of you and he is thinking about building a smart wall instead of a dumb one as you assume!
        The reactions from Mexico strongly suggest that they believe that he will build the wall (and make them pay for it).

        • Tothe

          Or maybe Trump is full of hot air. How would Trump make Mexico pay for anything?

        • scorpio

          A smart wall? Haha, great idea. Nice try.
          Trump can’t make Mexico pay for anything. People get scared, and that’s it. Those who reacted to Trump’s plans aren’t engineers anyway.

          • duif100

            Obviously you are not an engineer since you do posses the ingenuity

            to figure out how Trump can make Mexico pay for the wall.
            It is really very simple since Mexico imports so much money from the US (50 billion/year)
            One executive order Obama style can stop all money transfers (by illegal aliens and others) from the US into Mexico.
            Mexico will gladly pay 10 billion for the wall to restore that cash flow.
            Trump can impose import duties on all Mexican products and generate the revenue that way.
            It is so easy to take so much away from Mexico that the will volunteer to pay for the wall.
            Use your imagination!

          • Tothe

            In order to get money, one must provide value sufficient to earn it. This process creates wealth. You want to stop a wealth-production process AND waste more wealth on a wall. You understand neither economics nor engineering.

          • Oscarthegrouch

            Make Mexico pay for it by taxing Western Union remittances from here to Mexico. Pretty simple.

            And yes, I am an engineer.

      • vlad the impaler

        outsource the work to china.lol

    • vardarac

      “The preparation of supporting materials such as concrete and rebar can stimulate an economic boom in several areas”

      Sorry, but this is broken window thinking.

  • JUST A MAN WITH A FANNY-PACK

    You forgot to cost out the machine gun drones and land mines …..there obviously needs to be a threat on the other side of that wall

  • there is only one company that could supply the concrete needed, Cemex – America’s largest a Mexican ethically advanced company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemex

  • Pretty sure Rhuzkan was the consultant on that ice rink in NY before Trump took over and did it for a tenth of the cost and 10x faster.

  • DaBlueSheep

    This is amazing XD GG Ramos

  • vlad the impaler

    he is obviously a moron engineer,i could desgn a fucking wall to keep these bastards out myself and I’m a hydraulics engineer.the lies have started already trying to legitimize these job stealing parasites,whom have ruined the construction industry who many whiteamericans relied on for a descent job,along come these 5 foot nothing illegal rats to under cut everyone and work for peanuts.now these are supposingly the jobs americans wont do,we always did in the past assholes.you think americans cant pick fruit or shuck oysters you are kidding yourselves we taught them how to it.now all of a sudden we are reliant on these criminals,they steal ss #dot say they are not criminals,and if you cant feed your kids quit having them.read mexico’s immigration laws,talk about racist.

    • SecludedCompound

      Why are you calling others racist when you literally stated yourself that:

      i am a racist and all these bugeaters need to gtfo of europe or die.

      At least quit being a coward, you cowardly, inbred hick fascist piece of trash.

  • Bruce31461

    What’s mind blowing is you Trumpeteer idiots that believe this liar,First off the reason these people are coming is because Obama is encouraging it the laws are being ignored,Secondly we could apply drone technology to patrol the borders much more effectively,third if we build a 25 ft wall they will bring a 26 ft ladder.Third the big dig in Boston was the most expensive project ever 22 billion dollars ,just imagine the cost of a 2000 mile wall. Fourth Trump is saying what people want to hear the fact is he’s a N.Y liberal it’s ingrained in him,he can’t help himself his policies change to the crowd he’s pandering to.Once again Americans are so pissed off they will vote for the best liar as they did in 2008

    • Ann Caroline Polansky

      What do drones do to keep people out? A wall would be more humane than shooting them with drones. Just having drones take pictures of them won’t stop anything. It is true the big mistake has been a liberal interpretation of immigration law for years. As a nation, we need clear borders that do not let unvetted people into the country in order to protect the citizens in the US. Period!

      • Tothe

        Why do people need to be kept out in the first place? Travel and trade build wealth. You don’t own other people, and national borders are not analogous to property lines.

        • Ann Caroline Polansky

          I haven’t ever seen a country in the world that does not have a border. If a government does its duty, it protects, internally and externally, educates, provides for emergency care, etc, Citizens work together to ensure they have the government of their choice, ideally. Trade is only one part of it. I moved to France eight years ago, and my daughter moved to England, and we both have gone through much paperwork, to be over here legally. Each European country sets laws for how many, when, who, etc. Britain is not thrilled with the open border agreement within Europe’s borders and no matter if they get their 51% who wish to remain in the EU in the upcoming election on June 23, it is clear that 49% are not happy with open borders. Let the US control the border, let the immigrants come in legally, change the laws if that is what the majority wants, but don’t sneak in, nor help someone else sneak in.

          • Tothe

            All gangs have territories. Government is just a gang writ large. Governments never work as advertised, and only exist to plunder the productive people living within their territorial claim. There is no virtue in following the governmental paperwork process to gain the permission of usurpers to exercise your natural rights, and there is no crime in dodging such paperwork. Legality is a terrible measure for morality or practicality.

          • Ann Caroline Polansky

            We will have to agree to disagree!

          • Tothe

            All I ask is that you reconsider your premises, and test them for consistency. I think you will eventually find that I hold the moral and rational high ground. Government has no moral authority and no rational support for its claims.

          • Ann Caroline Polansky

            So you hold the moral and rational high ground. You don’t see that government is made up of the people, for the people, and by the people. Which gang do you want to take over if it is not government? The nature of mankind and animal troops or groups has historically been defined by a dominate leadership and then subordinates, for protection of the group and for survival . I personally would rather see a more collaborative relationship within groups rather than hierarchy but don’t question the need to live within a group structure . But living without any sort of group structure makes no sense to me. If you have a group structure, you have borders since the next group structure starts where yours ends. I can only think that you are asking to have your cake and eat it too, by having protection, opportunity, but without responsibility to a group. I doubt you want to give the rule of the people to the gangs you mention who would take over if governments failed. We may have let our government morph into a giant monster who does not speak for the whole. But that is our responsibility. We are the only ones who can make sure our government is made up of the people, for the people and by the people.

          • Tothe

            Government is made up of some people who illegitimately claim to represent all the people, including those who voted against them, those who did not vote, those who could not vote, and those who reside in other districts. This is patently absurd. Government rules over the people, but the vast majority of their laws benefit the politically-connected and/or punish non-crimes at the expense of the general population. The “government of, by, and for the people” sentiment is propaganda only, uttered most famously by a man who violated his oath to defend the magic piece of paper that allegedly protects our rights. (And no, this isn’t a pro-slavery or pro-confederacy argument) There is no “our” government, because neither of us has any possessive relationship with it.

            Hierarchy does happen, because people have different skills and preferences. I am not arguing against hierarchy per se, but against coercive hierarchy as opposed to voluntary hierarchy. I advocate cooperation and collaboration. Government is not a voluntary association, but rather a territorial monopoly in the use of force. it is anti-civilization. there are plenty of historical precedents for voluntary associations to provide security, arbitration, infrastructure, etc. right here in the USA. Meanwhile, organized crime develops primarily in response to the organized crimes of government. Violent black markets are almost entirely the result of arbitrary government prohibitions, economic controls, and restrictions of the rights of minorities.

    • Nick

      The big dig was expensive because it was (a) underground and (b) a big union slush fund.

      I’m guessing Trump will low bid it, or have multiple low bids and then dump the companies going over budget, and award those that are doing well. That’s how we do it outside of government.

      Drones are only as good as the President ordering them around. A wall is permanent.

    • Kathryn Pegelow

      Drones serve no purpose in preventing immigration. Not to mention they can be shot down. If you look at the actual existing fences, you can see why they are ineffectual. They are nothing more than a glorified chain link fence, which is easily breached. Chain link gives you a foothold to climb. A concrete wall would have smooth sides….no foot hold. It would be sturdier, making it more difficult to breach. It would have a more solid base, similar to a pyramid–wide at the bottom and narrowing towards the top with rebar anchors deep into the ground to prevent tunneling. It would also likely be fitted with infrared and sonar sensors to detect seismic activity from tunnel builders. Although the initial cost would be high, the money saved from decreasing drug flow into the US would be a major cost savings as would decreasing the flow of human traffic into the US. Deporting the 3 million plus illegal immigrants out of our jails would also create an effective cost savings in the longer picture as would deporting the thousands of illegals who are currently accessing taxpayer dollars through our welfare systems and schools, and transferring the low income housing and entry level jobs back to our own citizens so they can finally leave the welfare system or at least decrease the amount of assistance they require. You are looking only at short term expense and ignoring long term benefit. And the author is incorrect. Trump was a builder first and a developer second. He worked in the trades with his father long before he started his own business. Nobody starts at the top, they work their way up. You can’t tell others how to do the job if you have no practical experience of your own because you will not understand the technicalities involved in the construction and will not be able to communicate with your workers to let them know what you want them to do. This author is ignorant and it shows.

      • “Although the initial cost would be high, the money saved from decreasing drug flow into the US would be a major cost savings ”

        The only reason for the “drug flow into the US” is the War on Some Drugs, and the resultant black market prices.

        Decriminalize drugs and the subsequent low market prices will cause the flow to dry up.

  • John V
  • Dolph

    My wall is much better, trust me. The Chinese laugh. Facepalm…buy Mexico, merge with Texas and call it Texaco…build wall @ Panama Canal, 48miles. Done!

  • Oscarthegrouch

    Three Hoover Dams of concrete? The inflation-adjusted cost of the HD was $836 million, so 3x that is about $2.5 billion… couch-cushion money for a country whose citizens spent $60 billion on their household pets last year.

    Admit Rhuzkan, you just don’t like the wall for political reasons.

    • Tothe

      So because people choose to spend $X on Y, it’s OK to take $Z from them for Q? Care to explain how this is a rational or moral position?

      • Oscarthegrouch

        In both cases, the elected government spends tax money on public works.

        The crux of the article did not involve an Asperger’s/Galt’s Gulch, ‘taxation is theft’ argument, but whether this particular project is economically/logistically feasible…so that’s what I’m addressing.

        • Tothe

          Your argument is based on the premise that government represents the people, that taking money from people under threat of violence is OK when governments call it “taxation,” and that taking money from people to fund government projects serves the public.

          Government does not represent the general population. It’s absurd to say that a politician can represent those who did not vote for him, and it’s questionable that politicians represent those who did vote for him since we all know that politicians break their campaign promises, and there is no agent-principal relationship whereby the voters can hold politicians accountable personally. Taxation is a demand for money backed by a threat of violence for noncompliance, and if done by anyone other than government, we rightly see it as extortion. And “public works,” or any other government project, necessarily suffers from the economic calculation problem and the disregard for quality or rpice that is associated with spending someone else’s money on things that only affect other people.

          • Oscarthegrouch

            Go protest your local public library then. And get your Asperger’s Syndrome checked out before you hurt yourself.

            You realize most of us are not libertarian anarchists, right?

          • Tothe

            I do realize most people aren’t libertarian anarchists. That is why I attempt to persuade through rational arguments. In response, instead of reasoned disputation, I am called names, accused of mental illness, or just deluged with fallacious responses.

            However, since you brought up libraries, do you believe that libraries are good? Do you think taxation is the only (or best) way to fund them? Are you familiar with the history of libraries? If you do not use libraries, why should you be required to fund them? If you think they are good enough to fund even if you do not use them, why wouldn’t you do so voluntarily?

          • Oscarthegrouch

            Yeah, dude, I get it. I used to be a libertarian diehard many years ago, loved Rand, Heinlein, Rothbard, Browne, et al., and annoyed people with all the same arguments, converting almost no one. I grew up, and realized very few people are equipped to deal with that sort of hyper-rational philosopher-king system, and will never accept it. You honestly sound like someone ‘on the spectrum’, immune to how the world outside your own head actually works.

            Also, when it comes to immigration/the wall, the first rule of politics is ‘don’t shoot your own base in the foot’. Allowing third-world peasants to pour in reduces the percentage of those even remotely sympathetic to your ideal system… so maybe you could swallow some pride and philosophically allow the use of tax $ for immigration control.

          • Tothe

            So you abandoned the principles of respecting the property rights of others and refraining from initiatory aggression, and claim this means you “grew up”?

          • Taxation is a demand for money backed by a threat of violence for noncompliance, and if done by anyone other than government, we rightly see it as extortion.

            Excellent phrasing!

  • Nick

    It turns out Rhuzkan is an environmentalist nutcase. Don’t believe me? Here are the articles he “likes” (don’t believe that he actually wrote some of them – he’s just put his name next to them as an author).

    https://muckrack.com/ali-f-rhuzkan/articles

    But I will say that $17 billion is a deal. Even if it takes twice the amount.

  • jmwarren

    the great wall of china was built like 2000 years ago and is way bigger. did you find the dumbest engineer in the world?

    • Tothe

      Built with slave labor over centuries for tyrants and failed in its stated purpose. Brilliant example.

      • jmwarren

        Ask all the countries in the world that have built walls to keep illegals out how it’s worked for them. (Hint: 90 percent improvement or better)

        You’re telling me that with an american/mexican workforce, billions of dollars, modern technology, and 10 or so years and it couldn’t be done?

        It’s either stupidity, intellectual dishonesty, or flat out lying.

        • Tothe

          I’m not saying it couldn’t be done. I am saying it’s wrong to fund a misguided project with stolen money. National borders are not analogous to private property boundaries, travel is not a crime, and if you really want to address the problem then you need to support ending the welfare state and ending the war on drugs, not granting government more power.

          • jmwarren

            Illegal immigration is illegal. FACT.
            It’s important for a nation to protect it’s borders. FACT
            Illegal immigration helps fuel the welfare state. FACT

            “not granting government more power” WHAT? Illegal immigration is already illegal, the wall will only help to enforce the law.

            What SJW safespace did you crawl out of?

          • Tothe

            1. Appeal to legality is irrational. Many moral things are “illegal,” and many immoral things are “legal.” You must apply reason to determine what constitutes an actual crime. See the flowchart below. If you think the ever-changing arbitrary dictates of politicians are a superior measure for morality, make your case.

            2. Nations can’t rationally own anything, and there is no analogy between property boundaries and governmental territory claims. Governments are territorial monopolies in violence, and everything government has must first be taken from the productive economy. In order for governmental borders to be legitimate, you need to show how governments justly own their land claims and how they represent the people within said claims. Make an argument based on evidence and reason.

            3. Immigration cannot fuel the welfare state while simultaneously feeding from it, and the welfare state exists only because politicians want to buy power with stolen money. Begging for new laws and new extortion to enforce your irrational prejudices and political ignorance is anathema to civilization.

            4. Attacking your opponent rather than addressing his argument is an ad hominem fallacy. I am not an “SJW.” I have not used the arguments or tactics of an “SJW.” You are either ignorant or malicious in your accusations. Address the argument, not the arguer.

            Now, you have some basic outlines of my arguments to support my position. I have shown you what standards I use to define a crime, I have given a cursory overview of my argument against all political action, and I have stated that government has no legitimate authority. Your choices are to respond in a rational manner for a productive discussion, or continue spouting meaningless slogans and insults, or to move along with your life and ignore this thread.

          • jmwarren

            So says you. Opinion discarded, into the trash it goes.

          • Tothe

            You seem to believe that your mere assertion of a position constitutes an argument, while my presentation of an argument with supporting reasoning is an “opinion.” May I suggest that a visit to your local library for a basic education philosophy is in order?

      • The comment was deleted before I could read it.
        Let me guess?
        Great Wall of China?

  • Arnie Fickel

    That’s President Trump to you……………..

    • Tothe

      Not my president. I have no need of rulers.

  • James Miller

    FYI to everyone, I’m convinced that the user Tothe either knows the writer of this article (Ali F. Rhuzkan) or he actually is the writer of this article. He’s trolling the comments, spamming anarchistic anti-government nonsense, acts with pseudo-intellectual superiority, then when he thinks he’s being beat, he makes it so suddenly comments need approval, and none make it through. What a piece of work.

    • Tothe

      1. No, I am not the author.
      2. No, I do not know the author.
      3. No, I have not done anything that would cause anyone else’s comments to require moderation. At worst, I may have downvoted one or two.
      4. Address the arguments if you have a problem with them. Support your arguments with reason. Appeals to popularity, status quo, or authority are no better than your ad homenem attack in this post.

  • george

    Use the labor of illegal immigrants and anchor babies. Hold them in servitude until the wall is finished, then send them packing.

    • Tothe

      Calling something “illegal” is meaningless. Appeal to legality is not ipso facto rational argumentation. Slavery is immoral. Kidnapping is immoral. Theft is immoral.

      • In other words do nothing? That is immoral.

        • Tothe

          How so? Before you advocate intervention, you need to show that there is a crime. For there to be a crime, there needs to be a victim and an aggressor. Travel and trade are not crimes. Interfering with travel or trade is a crime. Government is a gang writ large, and its territorial boundaries are not analogous to property lines. Travel without government permission is not analogous to trespass. You don’t own other people, so you don’t get to tell them how they are allowed to interact.

          • The problem with “illegal immigration” so-called is the lack of respect for private property rights.

            Those who complain about “illegal immigration” so-called, don’t realize that the problem is a variant of the “Tragedy of the Commons”.

            Government property, aka public property creates a chaotic vacuum where private property rights have no effect, and are unable to ensure natural order in travel and trade.

            As the anarchist truism puts it so well:
            “Anarchy is order, government is chaos”.

          • Ali_Bertarian

            “Before you advocate intervention, you need to show that there is a crime.”

            Stopping anyone at the border is a from of self-defense. The government will allow an unknown number of them to have the legal right to vote, which is the power to control our property. They have no right to do so. They are an invasion force.

            Immigrants traveling on “public” property paid for by US taxpayers is theft. They have no right to use that property.

          • Tothe

            No. There is no analogy between private property and government borders. “public property” is owned by no one, not everyone. Taxation is theft, and you have no claim on what is done with what is stolen from you. Travel on unowned land is a right, and trade is a right, and voluntary association is a right. Using force to prevent travel, trade, and voluntary association is not a right.

          • Ali_Bertarian

            “public property” is owned by no one, not everyone.

            False. It was stolen from someone, and paid for by US taxpayers. If the original owners have no claim on that property, then the US taxpayers are next in line, not immigrants who did not pay for the land. Immigrants have no right to use it.

            Taxation is theft,
            and you have no claim on what is done with what is stolen from you.

            If someone steals your car, then you have no right to get it back? That is bizarre.

            Travel on unowned land is a right…

            It’s not unowned. It’s either the property of the original owners or it is the property of the US taxpayers.

            , and trade is a right, and voluntary
            association is a right. Using force to prevent travel, trade, and
            voluntary association is not a right.

            Only on private property, not on “public” property, which is disputed property.

            Immigrants who become US citizens since 1970 have become overwhelmingly Democrats. If the US holds to your system of open borders, which includes the right to become a citizen and the right to vote, what is your back-up plan when the US becomes a socialist paradise because of all the Democrats we are importing?

          • Tothe

            Taxpayers have a claim against the people who robbed them. They do not have any more claim than anyone else on what was done with the money after they were robbed. If the original owner of the stolen property cannot be identified, it reverts to being unowned and open to homesteading. There is nothing that rationally excludes people from homesteading or traveling across unowned land.

          • Ali_Bertarian

            Taxpayers have a claim against the people who robbed them. They do not
            have any more claim than anyone else on what was done with the money
            after they were robbed.

            If the original owner of the stolen property
            cannot be identified, it reverts to being unowned and open to
            homesteading.

            It’s quite easy to determine whose land was taken by eminent domain. You never heard of Kelo? It’s all public records.

            There is nothing that rationally excludes people from
            homesteading or traveling across unowned land.

            Let’s see you try to homestead I5 in California. Go ahead.

            You apparently have no facility to settle disputes. “Public” land and infrastructure is disputed land, not unowned and open for homesteading. The same is true for any stolen property.

            If you buy stolen property it doesn’t become your property.

            I noticed you failed to respond to the following, which you may have missed, so I will emphasize it for you.

            Immigrants who become US citizens since 1970 have become overwhelmingly Democrats. If the US holds to your system of open borders, which includes the right to become a citizen and the right to vote, what is your back-up plan when the US becomes a socialist paradise because of all the Democrats we are importing?

          • Tothe

            Obviously, like I said, if the owner can be determined, the stolen property needs to be returned. We are not in disagreement here.

            But then you seem to counter my rational argument for Lockean homesteading with an appeal to legality. That completely dodges my argument, and reinforces the immorality and irrationality of government control.

          • Ali_Bertarian

            But then you seem to counter my rational argument for Lockean
            homesteading with an appeal to legality.

            I made no reference to “legality.” Here it is again: “‘Public’ land and infrastructure is disputed land, not unowned and open for homesteading. The same is true for any stolen property.”

            As a separate issue, Immigrants who become US citizens since 1970 have become overwhelmingly Democrats. If the US holds to your system of open borders, which includes the right to become a citizen and the right to vote, what is your back-up plan when the US becomes a socialist paradise because of all the Democrats we are importing?

          • Tothe

            You’re changing the subject, but voting isn’t a right and democracy isn’t a virtue. My problem is with the whole institution of government, because government is a usurper. It isn’t who votes, or who is elected, that presents a problem. It’s the idea hat people need to elect a government in the first place. Everything the government has is stolen. Who does the stealing is really irrelevant, and both parties increase the theft compared to the other party that preceded them in power as the majority shifts from “left” to “right.”

          • Ali_Bertarian

            You’re changing the subject, but …

            Yeah, that’s why I wrote “As a separate issue…”

            You aren’t the least bit interested in seeing the consequences of the open borders policy that you advocate, are you?

          • Tothe

            The “consequences” are either paranoid fantasies or complaints about the consequences of government policy, not rational arguments against the rights of people to travel and trade. I have actually worked at manual labor agricultural jobs with migrant laborers. Have you? They are nothing to fear. Immigrants are good for the economy.

          • Ali_Bertarian

            The “consequences” are either paranoid fantasies or complaints about the consequences of government policy, not rational arguments against the rights of people to travel and trade.

            Try reading better. I already gave the rational arguments. Apparently you don’t know what “as a separate issue” means. Look it up.

            Here, I will emphasize it more.

            Immigrants who become US citizens since 1970 have become overwhelmingly Democrats. If the US holds to your system of open borders, which includes the right to become a citizen and the right to vote, what is your back-up plan when the US becomes a socialist paradise because of all the Democrats we are importing?

            They are nothing to fear. Immigrants are good for the economy.

            Immigrants who become US citizens since 1970 have become overwhelmingly Democrats. They are bad for our freedom.

    • Blake Batson

      That’s called slavery, ya doorknob.

  • GangnamPower

    Think of how much graffiti could go on it!

  • Really, this article explains a lot (yes, a LOT) of obstacles and concludes that would be very difficult, not impossible. Ok, comparing the uniqueness of the great wall of China is defeatist to his point. 3889 miles of wall, 5500 miles total, 16 to 20 FEET thick, and higher than that… His point is the implausibility, but he used an example built without modern ingenuity and technology that is at least twice as long (wall wise, but actually longer) and averages TWENTY-SEVEN TIMES THICKER! Yeah, it took a heck of a lot longer back then… because it’s 54+ TIMES the volume! I actually don’t have words for this level of confirmation bias. And this guy is an engineer? His actual content can be summed up as it would be a huge undertaking, so there are many obstacles, and I don’t think he’ll get it done. I think the small thinking is more like ha, idiot, he thinks he can do it in a few years, but that is not the claim. The whole article is about as redundant as someone saying oh yes he will. I don’t actually care.